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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:48 pm

    Actually idea of mini subs is very good. But with as AIP powered drones. no need for human factor enables long long lasting patrols or drone might be really deep submersible...

    For most subs 400mm torpedo is enough to kill, fo rbig ships mybe shkval 2?


    With such drones most of nato aggressors think twice before entering protected area... at the end of the day - oops sorry malfunction of drone and your destroyer is down but we warned you Smile





    Coastal missile complex "Bastion" is deployed in the Kaliningrad region


    It can close out of the Danish Straits to the Baltic sea and covers all possible targets on the territory of Poland

    Moscow. 21 Nov. INTERFAX.RU - Group of forces in the Kaliningrad special district is reinforced with a division of coastal missile complex "Bastion", said on Monday "Interfax" a source familiar with the situation.

    He said that the division became part of the missile join the Baltic fleet.

    19 November, the press service of the Baltic fleet reported that the missile join the Navy "training infrastructure and planned upgrading to a new shore and operational-tactical missile complexes".

    The press service did not elaborate on what kind of complexes is upgrading.

    General Director Kaluga instrument-making plant "Typhoon" Andrei Petrakov said earlier that in September transferred to the Baltic fleet coastal missile complex "Ball".

    "Fire and forget"
    Mobile coastal missile complex "Bastion" with a unified supersonic antiship homing missile "Onyx" designed and produced in machine-building NPO (Reutov, Moscow oblast, included in the Corporation "Tactical missiles").

    The complex "Bastion" is designed to protect the coast stretching over 600 km and defeat surface ships of various classes and types, operating in the composition of the airborne compounds, convoys, ship and aircraft carrier battle groups and single ships and land-based Radiocontrast targets in conditions of intensive fire and electronic countermeasures.

    Ammunition one set can include up to 36 missiles. Rocket has over-the-horizon firing range. It implemented the principle of "fire and forget".

    Closed the coast
    As reported on 15 November, Russian defense Minister army General Sergei Shoigu, in connection with the use of "Onyx" on ground targets terrorists in Syria, "to put coastal complexes "Bastion", which effectively closed the entire coast, and today we have these complexes are able to hit both marine and ground targets at a distance of 350 km of the sea and about 450 km of the land."

    According to military experts, such a range when deploying a "Bastion" in the Kaliningrad region and its ability to operate against ground targets allows this complex, if necessary, to close the exit from the Danish Straits to the Baltic sea for ships of the potential enemy and "close" all possible targets on the territory of Poland.

    As previously reported by Shoigu, in 2016, "the Navy will receive five more coastal missile complexes".

    "In the future, the fleets will to do four sets every year," he said. According to him, by 2021 Russia will be able to completely retool coastal missile units with modern weapons.

    Earlier it was reported that the Baltic from the black sea fleet sent two small missile ship project 21631 "Green Vale" and "Serpukhov". They are carriers of cruise missiles"Caliber-NK".


    franco
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  franco on Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:05 pm

    Tenders issued for the dismantling of 2 Kilo class submarines and 2 Sovremenny Class destroyers.

    eehnie
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  eehnie on Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:51 am

    franco wrote:Tenders issued for the dismantling of 2 Kilo class submarines and 2 Sovremenny Class destroyers.  

    Can you elaborate a little more?

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:07 am

    franco wrote:2 Sovremenny Class destroyers.  

    Don't know about the Kilos, Russians better keep as many as they can. But the Sovs have been notorious early-on with their boilers. Late Russian and PLAN variants maybe no so much. But these are potentially old, unmodified Soviet relics.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:42 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    franco wrote:2 Sovremenny Class destroyers.  

    Don't know about the Kilos, Russians better keep as many as they can. But the Sovs have been notorious early-on with their boilers. Late Russian and PLAN variants maybe no so much. But these are potentially old, unmodified Soviet relics.

    I'm pretty sure these four probably haven't seen any activity in decades.

    With Russian Navy it either being used or rotted away long ago. They won't be dismantling anything that moves anytime soon.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  franco on Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:26 am

    eehnie wrote:
    franco wrote:Tenders issued for the dismantling of 2 Kilo class submarines and 2 Sovremenny Class destroyers.  

    Can you elaborate a little more?

    Two of each to be scrapped. Pretty sure there is no value in keeping them around.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  eehnie on Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:07 am

    franco wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    franco wrote:Tenders issued for the dismantling of 2 Kilo class submarines and 2 Sovremenny Class destroyers.  

    Can you elaborate a little more?

    Two of each to be scrapped. Pretty sure there is no value in keeping them around.

    Then I understand are likely units decommissioned in recent years. I understand it mean not new decommissions.

    I commented about the reports of sales and auctions of material from scrapping and of spare parts in the refered to the land and air warfare. In the refered to sea warfare, it has been an important activity. And in this case the reports are even better because they talk about the exact ship scrapped. The sales and auctions of scrap of ships in 2016 come mostly from auxiliary ships decommissioned between 2009 and 2014. According to the reports the scrapping queue seems not very long.

    Surely these 4 have been decommissioned around the same time.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  franco on Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:59 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    franco wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    franco wrote:Tenders issued for the dismantling of 2 Kilo class submarines and 2 Sovremenny Class destroyers.  

    Can you elaborate a little more?

    Two of each to be scrapped. Pretty sure there is no value in keeping them around.

    Then I understand are likely units decommissioned in recent years. I understand it mean not new decommissions.

    I commented about the reports of sales and auctions of material from scrapping and of spare parts in the refered to the land and air warfare. In the refered to sea warfare, it has been an important activity. And in this case the reports are even better because they talk about the exact ship scrapped. The sales and auctions of scrap of ships in 2016 come mostly from auxiliary ships decommissioned between 2009 and 2014. According to the reports the scrapping queue seems not very long.

    Surely these 4 have been decommissioned around the same time.


    Here is a further story about the subs.
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2286883.html

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  George1 on Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:25 am

    franco wrote:Tenders issued for the dismantling of 2 Kilo class submarines and 2 Sovremenny Class destroyers.  

    do we know which Sovremenny Class destroyers franco?


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    franco
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  franco on Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:29 am

    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:Tenders issued for the dismantling of 2 Kilo class submarines and 2 Sovremenny Class destroyers.  

    do we know which Sovremenny Class destroyers franco?

    It was mentioned in the original article but I cannot locate it now. Sure it will show up.

    eehnie
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  eehnie on Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:26 pm

    franco wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    franco wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    franco wrote:Tenders issued for the dismantling of 2 Kilo class submarines and 2 Sovremenny Class destroyers.  

    Can you elaborate a little more?

    Two of each to be scrapped. Pretty sure there is no value in keeping them around.

    Then I understand are likely units decommissioned in recent years. I understand it mean not new decommissions.

    I commented about the reports of sales and auctions of material from scrapping and of spare parts in the refered to the land and air warfare. In the refered to sea warfare, it has been an important activity. And in this case the reports are even better because they talk about the exact ship scrapped. The sales and auctions of scrap of ships in 2016 come mostly from auxiliary ships decommissioned between 2009 and 2014. According to the reports the scrapping queue seems not very long.

    Surely these 4 have been decommissioned around the same time.


    Here is a further story about the subs.
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2286883.html

    They are the last two decommissioned of this class. Decommissioned in 2012 and 2016.

    Militarov
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    Russian Navy

    Post  Militarov on Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:00 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Anti ship missiles don't care about size of ship and what it can do. Simple fact is, smaller Russian ships pack a massive punch. While AB is a good ship, it isn't invincible even against small ships. So don't push this bullshit narrative. But then again, your previous posts give me indication that you are full of it to begin with.

    Subsonic tomahawks aren't really scary to most real military nations like Russia. So no, those AB aren't scary. Good land attack capabilities though. Won't deny that.

    And how many modern such "small vessels that pack a punch" vessels Russia has atm? 10? And how many ABs are there? 63, there are fkn 63.

    Noone said its invincible, all we are saying is that discarting AB as something old and outdated is aganist all logic, while factually it is the best ship in its class, maybe Sejong the Great comes somewhat comparable to it.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:11 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Anti ship missiles don't care about size of ship and what it can do. Simple fact is, smaller Russian ships pack a massive punch.

    Easy tiger. AB is heavy as fcuk for a reason, it packs a massive punch. 96 VLS cells and much more.
    Like proper massive. And again there's over 60 of them active, not a token number of.. one or two.

    Major league Navy. You gotta hand it to the Americans, they build em strong.



    Also concerning anti ship missiles, precisely because being a corvette or a cruiser doesn't matter in getting hit, having a large number of big sticks (see AB) is all more important.

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:It's gonna go through a full overhaul, there is no F'lng way that it's not getting some Nukes, unless Serdyukov is running the MoD again.

    Not happening, they said no major changes will be made to the design during overhaul, at the best propulsion will be modernised in similar way like Indian carrier was.

    What a waste. No

    Well in that case India and China will surpass them. Putin needs to clean house and get the Navy sorted pronto. They are by far the weakest and clumsiest link as it is. Order hulls from China and Korea, I don't know.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:21 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Huge waste of space the AB's....? I suppose the Russian ships aren't then?.

    AB is a very capable vessel. I have heard people rave on here about how good the soviet ships are despite their age...Does this only apply to russia.

    Those AB's would take apart the Russian navy if it was ship verse ship. So please don't go there only the Kirov's would be able to take down an AB the rest of Russia's navy cannot.

    This excludes submarines for both sides clearly also.

    Maybe you sea different newspapers than me at the airports, but my experience is that those are marking the 26 years old Russian ships as "rusting bathtubs" and the 40 years old American ships as "magnificent example of long lasting engineering work" .


    Like TV shows, mentioning that someone fly to the ISS make a remark like "but the shuttle doesn't work, you will use s Soyuz , from the country that made Chernobyl ?"

    And the reality is the shuttle kill to fly ratio is 1.7%, Soyuz 0.7% .

    Blow up chance 50% higher for a US made nuclear reactor.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:28 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Anti ship missiles don't care about size of ship and what it can do. Simple fact is, smaller Russian ships pack a massive punch. While AB is a good ship, it isn't invincible even against small ships. So don't push this bullshit narrative. But then again, your previous posts give me indication that you are full of it to begin with.

    Subsonic tomahawks aren't really scary to most real military nations like Russia. So no, those AB aren't scary. Good land attack capabilities though. Won't deny that.

    And how many modern such "small vessels that pack a punch" vessels Russia has atm? 10? And how many ABs are there? 63, there are fkn 63.

    Noone said its invincible, all we are saying is that discarting AB as something old and outdated is aganist all logic, while factually it is the best ship in its class, maybe Sejong the Great comes somewhat comparable to it.


    The US made quite big investment in the past 30 years.


    It will take 15 more years for Russia to make a half as big and capable navy like the US, and 15 years to Chine to make 50% bigger and more capable navy than the US.



    So, if the US want to keep its current advantage then it needs to increase the military outlay to the 10% of the GDP. And that is the path of the CCCP : )

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/steaming-ahead-course-uncertain-chinas-military-shipbuilding-16266

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:42 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:It's gonna go through a full overhaul, there is no F'lng way that it's not getting some Nukes, unless Serdyukov is running the MoD again.

    Not happening, they said no major changes will be made to the design during overhaul, at the best propulsion will be modernised in similar way like Indian carrier was.

    What a waste. No

    Well in that case India and China will surpass them. Putin needs to clean house and get the Navy sorted pronto. They are by far the weakest and clumsiest link as it is. Order hulls from China and Korea, I don't know.

    Yes, this is something i have been wondering as well, they could order the hulls for Type 052s and Type 055s and load it with Russian weapons and equipment.
    Would be a good stopgap until there shipyards can get there sh#t together, especially Amur.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:55 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Anti ship missiles don't care about size of ship and what it can do. Simple fact is, smaller Russian ships pack a massive punch. While AB is a good ship, it isn't invincible even against small ships. So don't push this bullshit narrative. But then again, your previous posts give me indication that you are full of it to begin with.

    Subsonic tomahawks aren't really scary to most real military nations like Russia. So no, those AB aren't scary. Good land attack capabilities though. Won't deny that.

    And how many modern such "small vessels that pack a punch" vessels Russia has atm? 10? And how many ABs are there? 63, there are fkn 63.

    Noone said its invincible, all we are saying is that discarting AB as something old and outdated is aganist all logic, while factually it is the best ship in its class, maybe Sejong the Great comes somewhat comparable to it.


    The US made quite big investment in the past 30 years.


    It will take 15 more years for Russia to make a half as big and capable navy like the US, and 15 years to Chine to make 50% bigger and more capable navy than the US.



    So, if the US want to keep its current advantage then it needs to increase the military outlay to the 10% of the GDP. And that is the path of the CCCP : )

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/steaming-ahead-course-uncertain-chinas-military-shipbuilding-16266

    Truthfully, i don't think Russia's interested in matching the U.S navy ship per ship, they've made it clear that they're more interested in a smaller and more nimbler naval force, since they're not gonna play the world policeman, if Russia becomes half as big, i think that'll be more than enough for them.

    China on the other hand has no choice, they have to protect there trade routes and be able to prevent any possible naval blockades of said trade, so they're gonna need to go big or go home.

    Not a chance in hell, eventually China will surpass them, they can make em cheaper and in larger numbers, it is only a matter of time.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Mindstorm on Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:58 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:Easy tiger. AB is heavy as fcuk for a reason, it packs a massive punch. 96 VLS cells and much more.


    It pack a massive punch, sure, but surely NOT against enemy ship.

    What missile do you think are contained in those VLS ?

    The US Naval doctrine is truly "circular" for what concern dealing with enemy surface combatants, both in the offensive and in the defensive operations : Aircraft Carrier's Air Wing.
    At the end of day anything rotate forcibly around that element ; in facts the offensive AShM component of practically all of theirs surface ships is totally surclassed under any cardinal parameter by opponents corresponding systems.

    This very heavy reliance and dependence on air wing for naval operations (a legacy of WWII experience) is potentially the greatest liability of US Navy, anyhow the most powerful Navy at world, that has never found a true alternative -above all under a strict technological point of view - in the US post-war planning.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  OminousSpudd on Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:12 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Well in that case India and China will surpass them. Putin needs to clean house and get the Navy sorted pronto. They are by far the weakest and clumsiest link as it is. Order hulls from China and Korea, I don't know.
    Not going to happen. Russia has no interest in building a navy the size of the US because they have little interest in being in a permanent state of war to justify the massive outlay and logistical cost.
    I would say the same for India and China.
    Russia has some nice domestic ship projects underway, and what they can do with their "gun-boats" is quite incredible, as stated by Western critics. But they'll never reach the scale of the US in the current century, there is simply no reason for it.

    Also, their AShMs are very nice and are ahead of US projects as of current.

    The focus is clearly on getting ground forces and air force into shape, navy comes dead last in this regard by a large margin.

    I also think this has to do with a case of critical mass, to actually compete with the US on a ship-to-ship basis the sheer outlay is far, far too expensive.
    In saying this, the K is off the Syrian coast at the moment, and we got to see some Kalibre launches from multiple platforms, so there is definitely an interest in in seeing the navy have something of relevance when compared to the US and China. One also has to consider that technology is advancing at a rapid pace, and naval warfare is being revolutionized by new ship vs ship weaponry, over-investing in classic-style DDGs might be what Russia is avoiding.

    You people need to chill, we've earned a temporary reprieve from the threat of WW3 with the new Pres-elect, Russia can still focus on making seriously good R&D available, while also making do with what its got.

    I feel like we are forgetting that Russia knows exactly where it is at capability wise.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:23 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    I will go with Nimitz class. Unless Kuz overnight tripled in size, quadrupled its airwing and got nuclear propulsion.


    The US navy require 2% of the US GDP.
    The NAVY using the 2/3 of the US military GDP.

    Means that the US military is mainly an attack force.

    If you destroy a carrier and an amphibious assault ship then you destroy 10% of the US military capability.


    If you destroy the K then you destroy 0.5% of the russian military capability.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:58 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:What missile do you think are contained in those VLS ?

    Everything by 2021.

    U.S. Navy Anti-Ship Tomahawk Set for Surface Ships, Subs Starting in 2021

    Any U.S. Navy ship or submarine capable of firing a Tomahawk Land Attack Missile (TLAM) could be armed with an 1000-nautical mile anti-ship cruise missile in less than a decade, service officials told USNI News on Wednesday during the West 2016 conference. Included in the Fiscal Year 2017 budget request to Congress is a $434 million ask over the next five years to modify 245 Raytheon TLAMS with a maritime attack capability, Vice Adm. Joseph Mulloy, deputy chief of naval operations for integration of capabilities and resources, told USNI News in a Wednesday interview.

    According to the plan laid out in the Navy budget (and blessed by big Pentagon) the maritime attack modified Tomahawk will enter the surface force in 2021 for live testing and then trickle out to every platform that can fire the missile – currently the Ticonderoga guided missile cruisers, Arleigh Burke guided missile destroyers the Navy’s attack submarine fleet (SSNs) and the four Ohio-class guided missile nuclear guided missile submarines (SSGNs). The modification will be part of the Navy’s recertification and life extension of older Tomahawks, which – with new FY 2017 funding for new TLAMS – will be ultimately an inventory of 4,000 missiles.

    https://news.usni.org/2016/02/18/west-u-s-navy-anti-ship-tomahawk-set-for-surface-ships-subs-starting-in-2021

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  kvs on Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:42 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Mindstorm wrote:What missile do you think are contained in those VLS ?

    Everything by 2021.

    U.S. Navy Anti-Ship Tomahawk Set for Surface Ships, Subs Starting in 2021

    Any U.S. Navy ship or submarine capable of firing a Tomahawk Land Attack Missile (TLAM) could be armed with an 1000-nautical mile anti-ship cruise missile in less than a decade, service officials told USNI News on Wednesday during the West 2016 conference. Included in the Fiscal Year 2017 budget request to Congress is a $434 million ask over the next five years to modify 245 Raytheon TLAMS with a maritime attack capability, Vice Adm. Joseph Mulloy, deputy chief of naval operations for integration of capabilities and resources, told USNI News in a Wednesday interview.

    According to the plan laid out in the Navy budget (and blessed by big Pentagon) the maritime attack modified Tomahawk will enter the surface force in 2021 for live testing and then trickle out to every platform that can fire the missile – currently the Ticonderoga guided missile cruisers, Arleigh Burke guided missile destroyers the Navy’s attack submarine fleet (SSNs) and the four Ohio-class guided missile nuclear guided missile submarines (SSGNs). The modification will be part of the Navy’s recertification and life extension of older Tomahawks, which – with new FY 2017 funding for new TLAMS – will be ultimately an inventory of 4,000 missiles.

    https://news.usni.org/2016/02/18/west-u-s-navy-anti-ship-tomahawk-set-for-surface-ships-subs-starting-in-2021

    Gatling guns will work against this wunderwaffe. It is clearly subsonic.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:55 am

    kvs wrote:Gatling guns will work against this wunderwaffe.   It is clearly subsonic.

    Sure that works on a usual day. Although saturation attack of say.. 50-60 of them by one or a handful of Burke's will present a problem.
    Like major problem. Ergo gets the job done fine and keeps the launching platforms well away from problems. 1000 nm is just unparalleled stuff.


    Last edited by KiloGolf on Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:59 am

    kvs wrote:

    Gatling guns will work against this wunderwaffe.   It is clearly subsonic.
    They know that. I think you are missing its main objective, the one the Pentagon really has its sights on. This is a wunderwaffe profit generator. Many will retire rich after 4000 are in service.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:03 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    kvs wrote:

    Gatling guns will work against this wunderwaffe.   It is clearly subsonic.
    They know that. I think you are missing its main objective, the one the Pentagon really has its sights on. This is a wunderwaffe profit generator. Many will retire rich after 4000 are in service.

    It's not a wunderwaffe, it can overwhelm any surface vessel by sheer numbers and range. It's a simple logic really. 96 cells on each Burke means each of them can host a good 30 of those. Thus a forward-deployed destroyer squadron can overwhelm targets from a safe distance, in their ports or on-patrol.

    Think of any major target out there and it is simply toast, easily and efficiently. Next level naval artillery really.And then you also have the SM-6 which combined with Aegis and optionally E-2D link can engage surface vessels, well over 300 km away.

    OminousSpudd wrote:Also, their AShMs are very nice and are ahead of US projects as of current.

    That's true, Russia is well ahead on that department tech-wise. Americans are trying to compensate by ramping up numbers of cruise missiles.
    Quite "Soviet" of them actually pirat

    But each to its kind, different doctrines, different navies.

    Singular_Transform wrote:If you destroy the K then you destroy 0.5% of the russian military capability.

    True, but then again this assumes K is operational i.e. sailing with its air wing and all. Often times the Kuz is just sitting somewhere doing nothing. Example is right now in Syria, it sailed just to... stand down and do nothing. And next year it will spend most of the time on refit, again.

    It's actually quite sad.

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