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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3

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    PapaDragon
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:13 am


    Those two Buyans just arrived in North Sea. Not too shabby for couple of river boats. Now if someone could please tell me what are they doing over there?

    http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1537270.html

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:50 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Those two Buyans just arrived in North Sea. Not too shabby for couple of river boats. Now if someone could please tell me what are they doing over there?

    http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1537270.html
    The photos in the link were taken from the helicopter of a Dutch frigate about 7 hours ago, so probably in that part of the North Sea. Interesting that they have a tug along with them.

    Be interesting which way they go now, Baltic or Northern Fleet. Either way they will get a warm welcome, they went through a baptism of fire Atlantic storm off Portugal.

    They may be small but they certainly pack a few punches.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Militarov on Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:30 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Those two Buyans just arrived in North Sea. Not too shabby for couple of river boats. Now if someone could please tell me what are they doing over there?

    http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1537270.html
    The photos in the link were taken from the helicopter of a Dutch frigate about 7 hours ago, so probably in that part of the North Sea. Interesting that they have a tug along with them.

    Be interesting which way they go now, Baltic or Northern Fleet. Either way they will get a warm welcome, they went through a baptism of fire Atlantic storm off Portugal.

    They may be small but they certainly pack a few punches.


    People used to cross Atlantic and fight wars in ships half of that tonnage and 1/3 of Buyan-M lenght, on top of everything ships used to be wodden. Also people cross Atlantic fairly regulary on yachts that are nowehere near in size of Buyan. All that ocea-sea going classifications are abit pointless these days. Sure you will have alot better ride on 6.000t displacement ship but doesnt mean smaller ships cant deal with it.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Isos on Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:15 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    People used to cross Atlantic and fight wars in ships half of that tonnage and 1/3 of Buyan-M lenght, on top of everything ships used to be wodden. Also people cross Atlantic fairly regulary on yachts that are nowehere near in size of Buyan. All that ocea-sea going classifications are abit pointless these days. Sure you will have alot better ride on 6.000t displacement ship but doesnt mean smaller ships cant deal with it.

    If the sea is calm it can go anyywhere. But in storms waves are much higher in open sea/ocean than in litoral waters, that's the problem.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Militarov on Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:57 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    People used to cross Atlantic and fight wars in ships half of that tonnage and 1/3 of Buyan-M lenght, on top of everything ships used to be wodden. Also people cross Atlantic fairly regulary on yachts that are nowehere near in size of Buyan. All that ocea-sea going classifications are abit pointless these days. Sure you will have alot better ride on 6.000t displacement ship but doesnt mean smaller ships cant deal with it.

    If the sea is calm it can go anyywhere. But in storms waves are much higher in open sea/ocean than in litoral waters, that's the problem.

    Weather radars exist with a reason, but putting that aside, its not like its going to sink due to bad weather, i mean 15th century corvetes didnt.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:31 am

    wilhelm wrote:First of all, Singapore and Taiwan both operate variants of the La Fayette Class, as does France. None of these are "Gulf navies

    Nope.

    Formidable =/= La Fayette
    Derivative =/= Variant

    welcome

    Apart a few odd vessels in France, Saudi (even those were quite different) and ROC (most similar hull)  the whole project was a failure. Naked vessels wasting tonnage as I said. A fancy, overpriced 80s design that lead nowhere and died in the early 00s. Sold badly too.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:59 am

    Looks like some more anti-Russia faux angst. A Kilo type sub was in there for 3 days last week on its way back to the Black Sea. Very good reasons for topping up the tanks there as it means saving that amount of fuel and stores from having to be transited on the Syrian Express.

    Importantly, it really does look now as if they are in absolutely no hurry at all to get to Syria.

    Spain is facing international criticism as it reportedly prepares to refuel a flotilla of Russian warships en route to bolstering the bombing campaign against the besieged Syrian city of Aleppo. El País reported that the Spanish ministry of foreign affairs was reviewing the permit issued to the Russian flotilla to stop at Ceuta. Politicians and military figures condemned the support from a NATO member as "scandalous," and "wholly inappropriate," while the head of the alliance indicated Madrid should rethink the pit stop.

    As The Guardian reports, warships led by the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov are expected to take on fuel and supplies at the Spanish port of Ceuta after passing through the Straits of Gibraltar on Wednesday morning. Spanish media reported that two Spanish vessels, the frigate Almirante Juan de Borbón and logistical ship Cantabria, were shadowing the warships as they passed through international waters, and that the Admiral Kuznetsov, along with other Russian vessels and submarines, would dock at Ceuta to restock after 10 days at sea. Late on Tuesday night, El País reported that the Spanish ministry of foreign affairs was reviewing the permit issued to the Russian flotilla to stop at Ceuta. Last week British Royal Navy vessels monitored the Russian warships as they moved through the English Channel. The vessels were shadowed by the navy as they passed through the Dover Strait .

    The enclave of Ceuta sits on the tip of Africa’s north coast, across the Straits of Gibraltar from mainland Spain, and bordering Morocco, which also lays claim to the territory. Although Ceuta is part of the EU, its Nato status is unclear, and since 2011 at least 60 Russian warships have docked there.

    Nato said the prospect of Russia’s only aircraft carrier heading to the region does not “inspire confidence” that Moscow is seeking a political solution to the Syrian crisis.

    The naval group is made up of Russia’s only aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov, as well as a nuclear-powered battle cruiser, two anti-submarine warships and four support vessels, likely escorted by submarines, Nato officials said. The naval deployment, a rare sight since the end of the Soviet Union, is carrying dozens of fighter bombers and helicopters and is expected to join around 10 other Russian vessels already off the Syrian coast, diplomats said.

    But, as The Telegraph reports, Spain is facing anger and criticism from all asunder at their decision to allow the refueling to occur.

    Nato secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg warned on Tuesday that Russian warships heading for Syria could be used to target civilians. “We are concerned and have expressed very clearly by the potential use of that battle group to increase air strikes on civilians in Aleppo,” Stoltenberg said, adding that it was “up to each nation to decide whether these vessels may obtain supplies and refuel at different ports along the route to the eastern Mediterranean”. “The battle group may be used to increase Russia’s ability to take part in combat operations over Syria and to conduct even more air strikes against Aleppo,”

    Guy Verhofstadt, former prime minister of Belgium and now the EU’s representative on Brexit talks with the UK, called Spain’s decision to allow the refuelling “scandalous”.

    Sir Gerald Howarth MP, a former Defence Minister, said it would be “wholly inappropriate” for a Nato member to refuel the Russian vessels. “Spain is a member of Nato and Nato is already facing challenges from Russia, not least in the Baltics. The Russians stand accused of indiscriminate bombing in Aleppo and Syria and it would be inappropriate to render them military assistance.”

    Former Royal Navy chief Lord West told the newspaper “There are sanctions against Russia and it’s an extraordinary thing for a Nato ally to do.”

    Spain’s Foreign Ministry told the Telegraph requests from the Russian navy were considered on a “case by case basis, depending on the characteristics of the ship concerned”. A spokesman said: “Russian navy vessels have been making calls in Spanish ports for years”. But in an indication Madrid was feeling increased diplomatic pressure not to help Moscow, the Spanish government said it was reviewing the Russian request. The spokesman said “The latest requested dockings are being revised at the current time in light of information we are receiving from our allies and from the Russian authorities.”

    Russia’s military visits are estimated each to bring in more than $400,000 to the city through a combination of mooring fees, fuel and supplies, and the money spent by sailors during their time onshore. "As long as the Spanish government hasn't banned it, it is a commercial matter like any other vessel stopping to take on supplies, even if it concerns military ships,"


    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-26/politicians-nato-officials-furious-spain-plans-refuel-russian-battle-group


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:37 pm

    Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 2h2 hours ago

    Russian defence ministry says Russia had not asked Spain to allow its ships to refuel in the Spanish port at Ceuta in North Africa

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:43 am

    Russia should impose extra sanctions on those countries that put pressure on Spain... Spain has already lost fees of profit on fuel and Sailors spending money in their ports.

    Perhaps Russia should double overflight fees for European airlines crossing their airspace to Asia...

    2) why but why again 100mm if Russia already is using 76mm and 57mm on light ships?

    100mm guns offer far more in terms of range and effect on target and are useful against a much wider range of targets than any 76mm gun.

    In terms of ammo you can have a much wider variety of rounds for the larger calibre... including EMP rounds and guided rounds and air burst rounds to defeat incoming Anti ship missiles and other threats.

    An EMP round would be a useful way of dealing with a large number of incoming subsonic anti ship missiles for instance.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  par far on Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:Russia should impose extra sanctions on those countries that put pressure on Spain... Spain has already lost fees of profit on fuel and Sailors spending money in their ports.

    Perhaps Russia should double overflight fees for European airlines crossing their airspace to Asia...


    2) why but why again 100mm if Russia  already is using 76mm and 57mm on light ships?

    100mm guns offer far more in terms of range and effect on target and are useful against a much wider range of targets than any 76mm gun.

    In terms of ammo you can have a much wider variety of rounds for the larger calibre... including EMP rounds and guided rounds and air burst rounds to defeat incoming Anti ship missiles and other threats.

    An EMP round would be a useful way of dealing with a large number of incoming subsonic anti ship missiles for instance.


    Malta has done the same, hopefully Russia is taking names of these countries.


    http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20161027/local/no-russian-warship-will-be-refuelled-in-malta.629234



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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:49 pm

    par far wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Russia should impose extra sanctions on those countries that put pressure on Spain... Spain has already lost fees of profit on fuel and Sailors spending money in their ports.

    Perhaps Russia should double overflight fees for European airlines crossing their airspace to Asia...


    2) why but why again 100mm if Russia  already is using 76mm and 57mm on light ships?

    100mm guns offer far more in terms of range and effect on target and are useful against a much wider range of targets than any 76mm gun.

    In terms of ammo you can have a much wider variety of rounds for the larger calibre... including EMP rounds and guided rounds and air burst rounds to defeat incoming Anti ship missiles and other threats.

    An EMP round would be a useful way of dealing with a large number of incoming subsonic anti ship missiles for instance.


    Malta has done the same, hopefully Russia is taking names of these countries.


    http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20161027/local/no-russian-warship-will-be-refuelled-in-malta.629234



    It's funny to see this scam group ''Avaaz'' giving tips to Spanish and Maltese govs.
    The same group that support NFZ over Libya and Syria.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Skandalwitwe on Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:32 pm

    Problem is Russia asked neither Spain nor Malta...who cares about that drought-ridden rocklets.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:59 pm

    Skandalwitwe wrote:Problem is Russia asked neither Spain nor Malta...who cares about that drought-ridden rocklets.

    They asked Spain, but then they pulled the request, not sure about Malta, besides i am certain Algeria will be more then willing to help.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:51 pm

    franco wrote:A look at the new 20386 Corvettes;

    https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/07/01/project-20386-small-patrol-ships-corvettes/

    According to this article 16 Redut SAM, 8 Uran ShSM and 8 Club-K ShSM or SSM missiles. And size wise at 3500 t, is almost as big as the 11356 and only 1000 t less then the 22350. If so explains the lack of further orders for the 22350 and not bothering to finish the 11356 with Russian engines.

    Well they are still building 3 22350's class ships, there is zero reasons to order more right now since those three aren't even ready to go yet.

    They are finishing the six ships of the 11356 class for the BSF, the started construction on the 6th vessel.

    That said 3500t? that's a frigate dunno why they label it has a corvette. Well let's see how long it takes them to build one of these.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:40 pm

    franco wrote:A look at the new 20386 Corvettes;

    https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/07/01/project-20386-small-patrol-ships-corvettes/

    According to this article 16 Redut SAM, 8 Uran ShSM and 8 Club-K ShSM or SSM missiles. And size wise at 3500 t, is almost as big as the 11356 and only 1000 t less then the 22350. If so explains the lack of further orders for the 22350 and not bothering to finish the 11356 with Russian engines.

    That article is quite obsolete. (good pics though)

    At most they can fit one Club-K container.

    Lack of orders for 22350 is due to engines, they will simply not be ready for couple of more years. They just completed testing stand for turbines.

    11356 is sold to Indians because by the time they are done they might as well move on to 22350 (I still disagree with this sale)

    Engines for 20380/20385/20386 on the other hand are, as of recently, available from local source. Hence the orders for this ship.





    Last edited by PapaDragon on Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:49 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    franco wrote:A look at the new 20386 Corvettes;

    https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/07/01/project-20386-small-patrol-ships-corvettes/

    According to this article 16 Redut SAM, 8 Uran ShSM and 8 Club-K ShSM or SSM missiles. And size wise at 3500 t, is almost as big as the 11356 and only 1000 t less then the 22350. If so explains the lack of further orders for the 22350 and not bothering to finish the 11356 with Russian engines.

    That article is quite obsolete. (good pics though)

    At most they can fit on Club-K container.

    Lack of orders for 22350 is due to engines, they will simply not be ready for couple of more years. They just completed testing stand for turbines.

    11356 is sold to Indians because by the time they are done they might as well move on to 22350 (I still disagree with this sale)

    Engines for 20380/20385/20386 on the other hand are, as of recently, available from local source. Hence the orders for this ship.

    The deal you speak of has to do with different ships no?. They will build 2 more locally for India and 2 within India.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:11 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    franco wrote:.

    That article is quite obsolete. (good pics though)

    At most they can fit one Club-K container.

    Lack of orders for 22350 is due to engines, they will simply not be ready for couple of more years. They just completed testing stand for turbines.

    11356 is sold to Indians because by the time they are done they might as well move on to 22350 (I still disagree with this sale)

    Engines for 20380/20385/20386 on the other hand are, as of recently, available from local source. Hence the orders for this ship.

    The deal you speak of has to do with different ships no?. They will build 2 more locally for India and 2 within India.

    I don't know really. They did say that engines for Indian ships will be built in Russia. They were pretty specific about it actually, so that is new.

    Another thing, there is no way these new corvettes will be replacing Gorshkov frigates. Gorshkovs have literally twice as many weapons and at least twice the range and endurance.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:37 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:


    I don't know really. They did say that engines for Indian ships will be built in Russia. They were pretty specific about it actually, so that is new.

    At the time there was an announcement that India and Ukraine were 'comfortable' doing a deal where Ukraine supplied the engines for the first two for certain and I assume probably the two Indian built ships as well.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  DB1234 on Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:04 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:


    I don't know really. They did say that engines for Indian ships will be built in Russia. They were pretty specific about it actually, so that is new.

    At the time there was an announcement that India and Ukraine were 'comfortable' doing a deal where Ukraine supplied the engines for the first two for certain and I assume probably the two Indian built ships as well.

    There was an article on an Indian defense-focused website several days ago saying that Ukraine and India had agreed on Ukraine supplying the engines for the frigates: http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/10/ukraine-agrees-to-provide-india-with.html


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:02 pm


    According to this, engines will be made by NPO Saturn:

    http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1541729.html

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:57 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    According to this, engines will be made by NPO Saturn:

    http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1541729.html
    This is probably the wrong thread for this. Bit I wonder which is correct? The Ukrainian engines, possibly already built, would be a knockout rice. This is your link Yandexed

    19.10.2016.
    NPO "Saturn" will manufacture gas turbine engines for a new series of frigates of project 11356, designed for export to India. Anti-ship missiles will put BrahMos Aerospace.
    "Gas turbine engines for ships, at least for those that will be built at the Kaliningrad shipyard "Yantar", make "Saturn", - said FlotProm source in the enterprise. Thus, Russia will supply the Indian side fully equipped frigates.
    In addition, the ships will be armed with anti-ship missiles "BrahMos", developed jointly by Russian and Indian military Industrialists.
    "Three Indian frigates of project 11356 and type "Talwar" the missiles already installed, - said the representative of BrahMos Aerospace Praveen Pathak. - Ships to be built in the framework of the signed contract, will also have a Russian-Indian missile".
    The intergovernmental contract for the technical assistance of Indian side in setting up production of frigates of project 11356 was signed on 15 October at the BRICS summit held in the Indian state of Goa. According to the agreement, two ships will be built in Russia at the Baltic shipyard "Yantar", and another two in India.
    We also add that in addition to the three frigates of project 11356 for the Indian Navy weapons consist of six frigates type "Talwar", designed by Northern design Bureau and built at the Baltic factory "Amber". It is based on the experience of the construction of the "Calvaro" was developed by the Russian project 11356 frigates.

    PS: Personally, I hope that the UEC enterprise "Zorya-Mashproekt" from the Russian city of Nikolaev in due time will be a reliable supplier of gas turbines for the Navy.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:14 pm

    Mark ‏@Mark_swl 19h19 hours ago

    Areas closures for launch of SLBM (Nov 1-3) and for new frigate missiles and artillery test firings (Oct 25 - Nov 5) #rusnavy



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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  kvs on Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:12 pm

    JohninMK wrote:

    PS: Personally, I hope that the UEC enterprise "Zorya-Mashproekt" from the Russian city of Nikolaev in due time will be a reliable supplier of gas turbines for the Navy.[/i]

    For some reason this company is being treated in media coverage as Ukrainian. Looks to me like another NATO propaganda scam. There
    is probably some Banderastani fraud outfit that is claiming to be the "true" Zorya-Mashproekt with its own fancy website and all which is being
    treated as if it was the real deal. Next step is to sue Russian companies in some BS NATO arbitration "court" for intellectual property theft.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:43 pm

    kvs wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:

    PS: Personally, I hope that the UEC enterprise "Zorya-Mashproekt" from the Russian city of Nikolaev in due time will be a reliable supplier of gas turbines for the Navy.[/i]

    For some reason this company is being treated in media coverage as Ukrainian.   Looks to me like another NATO propaganda scam.   There
    is probably some Banderastani fraud outfit that is claiming to be the "true" Zorya-Mashproekt with its own fancy website and all which is being
    treated as if it was the real deal.   Next step is to sue Russian companies in some BS NATO arbitration "court" for intellectual property theft.

    I thought Zorya-M was based in Nikolaev, Ukraine. It's Ukrainian, right? dunno

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  kvs on Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:01 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:

    PS: Personally, I hope that the UEC enterprise "Zorya-Mashproekt" from the Russian city of Nikolaev in due time will be a reliable supplier of gas turbines for the Navy.[/i]

    For some reason this company is being treated in media coverage as Ukrainian.   Looks to me like another NATO propaganda scam.   There
    is probably some Banderastani fraud outfit that is claiming to be the "true" Zorya-Mashproekt with its own fancy website and all which is being
    treated as if it was the real deal.   Next step is to sue Russian companies in some BS NATO arbitration "court" for intellectual property theft.

    I thought Zorya-M was based in Nikolaev, Ukraine. It's Ukrainian, right? dunno

    OK, that would be more consistent. So this article messed up the location.

    But with a lot of these "Ukrainian" companies, the enterprise was a deep joint venture with Russian firms and the products were
    sold to Russia. A legacy of the USSR era. These Ukrainian companies are screwed totally thanks to the Banderatards in charge
    in Kiev with Uncle Scumbag's hand firmly up their sock puppet asses.

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