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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3

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    OminousSpudd
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:16 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:It's quite stupid we have to postpone shipbuilding processes because of a lack of domestic engine production.

    Purely Russian fault that one. They left crucial components production to remain in Ukrainian hands, partially in Belarus and Kazakhstan too but alot less compared to Ukraine. Not only that, but they remained in hibernation for 25 years without any development in those areas of their own, whatsoever.

    It's stupid for Ukraine. They will never found a client like Russia as the west has it's domestic production, idem for asia. In the long term Ukraine looses. Russia will just have more industries and more jobs for its population, specially if you look at all the ship that will be build in the near future.

    Potentially its space for Russian industry and economy to grow... however... as there is always however. For certain components it will take a long period of time as Russians never had industrial base for some of Ukrainian products, simply as it was set back when USSR existed. So they now need to almost do stuff from the scratch and it can take... years even decades.
    Which could mean we end up with like, the best ship-building industry in the world or something. Building from scratch usually yields excellent innovations... but the time factor is a shame for sure.

    Militarov
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Militarov on Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:45 am

    OminousSpudd wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:It's quite stupid we have to postpone shipbuilding processes because of a lack of domestic engine production.

    Purely Russian fault that one. They left crucial components production to remain in Ukrainian hands, partially in Belarus and Kazakhstan too but alot less compared to Ukraine. Not only that, but they remained in hibernation for 25 years without any development in those areas of their own, whatsoever.

    It's stupid for Ukraine. They will never found a client like Russia as the west has it's domestic production, idem for asia. In the long term Ukraine looses. Russia will just have more industries and more jobs for its population, specially if you look at all the ship that will be build in the near future.

    Potentially its space for Russian industry and economy to grow... however... as there is always however. For certain components it will take a long period of time as Russians never had industrial base for some of Ukrainian products, simply as it was set back when USSR existed. So they now need to almost do stuff from the scratch and it can take... years even decades.
    Which could mean we end up with like, the best ship-building industry in the world or something. Building from scratch usually yields excellent innovations... but the time factor is a shame for sure.

    I wouldnt go that far and expect best shipbuilding industry in the world, that is very unrealistic as Japan, South Korea and few other major shipbuilding nations are so far ahead its not very likely Russia will catch up any time soon. However reviving some of the dead shipyards, repairing them, and start building ships at least for own industry needs would be a good start.

    Project Canada
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Project Canada on Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:26 am

    Militarov wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    VladimirSahin wrote:It's quite stupid we have to postpone shipbuilding processes because of a lack of domestic engine production.

    Purely Russian fault that one. They left crucial components production to remain in Ukrainian hands, partially in Belarus and Kazakhstan too but alot less compared to Ukraine. Not only that, but they remained in hibernation for 25 years without any development in those areas of their own, whatsoever.

    It's stupid for Ukraine. They will never found a client like Russia as the west has it's domestic production, idem for asia. In the long term Ukraine looses. Russia will just have more industries and more jobs for its population, specially if you look at all the ship that will be build in the near future.

    Potentially its space for Russian industry and economy to grow... however... as there is always however. For certain components it will take a long period of time as Russians never had industrial base for some of Ukrainian products, simply as it was set back when USSR existed. So they now need to almost do stuff from the scratch and it can take... years even decades.
    Which could mean we end up with like, the best ship-building industry in the world or something. Building from scratch usually yields excellent innovations... but the time factor is a shame for sure.

    I wouldnt go that far and expect best shipbuilding industry in the world, that is very unrealistic as Japan, South Korea and few other major shipbuilding nations are so far ahead its not very likely Russia will catch up any time soon. However reviving some of the dead shipyards, repairing them, and start building ships at least for own industry needs would be a good start.

    I think what is important now is the start work in this area (shipbuilding) and set a roadmap to where they want the industry to be in lets say 10-20 years. with its advantage in manpower, technology and resources Russia can certainly close the gap with either Japan or South Korea, with careful planning and strict management and implementation of projects in the ship industry.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:58 am

    yeah... I have a friend who has the best ball point pen in the world and really it doesn't do anything that my 50 cent plastic BIC pens can't do.

    The best in the world is an illusion and a waste of time most of the time...

    I think what is important now is the start work in this area (shipbuilding) and set a roadmap to where they want the industry to be in lets say 10-20 years. with its advantage in manpower, technology and resources Russia can certainly close the gap with either Japan or South Korea, with careful planning and strict management and implementation of projects in the ship industry.

    Roadmap?

    Could you have not added that the result will be a whole new level and that that would be a game changer... a 5th gen supercruising stealthy shipyard... awesome.


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    Isos
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Isos on Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:34 pm

    Most of Ukrainian specialists will go to found a job in Russia as their jobs are dead in Ukraine. So Russia wins a lot in this situation. Plus the population in Russia will grow fast if they keep growing their economy like they do since the 90's. So it's gonna be a big market, in the other hand Europe looses too much with their sanctions in the short and long term and providing economic support to countries like Ukraine or Poland ( Look at the failed deal for helicopters with France) who don't give a shit about the UE. Just want the annual aid and the protection of US.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:48 pm

    Well well, what do we have here?

    The good ship Yantar is out there prowling again. Pure co-incidence of course that it just happens to stop right on top of sub-sea cables.

    http://www.hisutton.com/Yantar.html

    Plus some great links to other 'special' undersea craft.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:yeah... I have a friend who has the best ball point pen in the world and really it doesn't do anything that my 50 cent plastic BIC pens can't do.

    The best in the world is an illusion and a waste of time most of the time...

    I think what is important now is the start work in this area (shipbuilding) and set a roadmap to where they want the industry to be in lets say 10-20 years. with its advantage in manpower, technology and resources Russia can certainly close the gap with either Japan or South Korea, with careful planning and strict management and implementation of projects in the ship industry.

    Roadmap?

    Could you have not added that the result will be a whole new level and that that would be a game changer...  a 5th gen supercruising stealthy shipyard... awesome.

    Russians have chance to specialize in ships for Arctic/ frozen seas/ underwater robots for mining. All depends on govt support and keeping direction.

    franco
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  franco on Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:17 am

    Two destroyers leave Vladivostok for a long range deployment. Are they headed to the Mediterranean or Yemen?

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2187578.html

    George1
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:22 am

    franco wrote:Two destroyers leave Vladivostok for a long range deployment. Are they headed to the Mediterranean or Yemen?  

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2187578.html

    In translation says that they will accompany A.Kuznetsov aircraft carrier. So towards Syria-Mediterranean


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    franco
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  franco on Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:32 am

    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:Two destroyers leave Vladivostok for a long range deployment. Are they headed to the Mediterranean or Yemen?  

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2187578.html

    In translation says that they will accompany A.Kuznetsov aircraft carrier. So towards Syria-Mediterranean

    They already have two destroyers from the Northern Fleet with them plus two Steregushchy Class Frigates from the Baltic Fleet on the way to join them. And waiting for them at Gibraltar are two Buyan-M corvettes. Quite a Battle Group being assembled.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Honesroc on Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:57 am

    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:Two destroyers leave Vladivostok for a long range deployment. Are they headed to the Mediterranean or Yemen?  

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2187578.html

    In translation says that they will accompany A.Kuznetsov aircraft carrier. So towards Syria-Mediterranean

    They already have two destroyers from the Northern Fleet with them plus two Steregushchy Class Frigates from the Baltic Fleet on the way to join them. And waiting for them at Gibraltar are two Buyan-M corvettes. Quite a Battle Group being assembled.

    Yaroslavl Mudry Is in the Atlantic as well

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:17 pm

    If the fleet (Northern plus Baltic elements) goes down the Channel past Dover as a single group, it will be a fantastic photo opportunity. Reminds me of the German successful heavy cruiser dash up the Channel in 1941.

    If the Russian MoD has its head screwed on right it will exploit it to the full. You know, HQ pictures from a chopper with the White Cliffs in the background, especially as when they are travelling south, due to the one way system, these ships could well be less than 10Km from the English coast, well inside the normal 12 mile limit due to the narrow Channel. We all know the foreshortening effect of a long lens, it could be made to look as if they were cruising past just outside the harbour!

    Anyone reading this in Moscow? Get a timetable published so that we can go and get our own pictures from the cliffs in Kent. God willing it will be a clear day.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:07 pm

    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:Two destroyers leave Vladivostok for a long range deployment. Are they headed to the Mediterranean or Yemen?  

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2187578.html

    In translation says that they will accompany A.Kuznetsov aircraft carrier. So towards Syria-Mediterranean

    That thing already has two destroyers and batllecruiser as escorts. Plus subs and whatever small fish tags along the way.

    What are they expecting to run into down there? Suspect

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  A1RMAN on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:50 pm

    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:Two destroyers leave Vladivostok for a long range deployment. Are they headed to the Mediterranean or Yemen?  

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2187578.html

    In translation says that they will accompany A.Kuznetsov aircraft carrier. So towards Syria-Mediterranean

    The source doesn't say they gonna accompany Kuznetsov.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:00 pm

    A1RMAN wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:Two destroyers leave Vladivostok for a long range deployment. Are they headed to the Mediterranean or Yemen?  

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2187578.html

    In translation says that they will accompany A.Kuznetsov aircraft carrier. So towards Syria-Mediterranean

    The source doesn't say they gonna accompany Kuznetsov.
    It will take them longer to get to the Med than the Kuznetsov, so they may join it there rather than accompany it.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  hoom on Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:56 pm

    The good ship Yantar is out there prowling again. Pure co-incidence of course that it just happens to stop right on top of sub-sea cables.
    Allegedly pulling up a US Sonar chain
    #Russia n Navy #Yantar removed a #USA under sea Sonar network along the Syrian coast ,linked to NATO bases in #Cyprus and #Mersin

    To tap cables with public GPS enabled would be gross incompetence & they have subs that could do it much less publicly.

    I wonder what the legalities of laying/ripping up sonar chains in international waters are?

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:25 am

    hoom wrote:
    The good ship Yantar is out there prowling again. Pure co-incidence of course that it just happens to stop right on top of sub-sea cables.
    Allegedly pulling up a US Sonar chain
    #Russia n Navy #Yantar removed a #USA under sea Sonar network along the Syrian coast ,linked to NATO bases in #Cyprus and #Mersin

    To tap cables with public GPS enabled would be gross incompetence & they have subs that could do it much less publicly.

    I wonder what the legalities of laying/ripping up sonar chains in international waters are?
    Do you have a link to this?

    Probably no legalities, the US is hardly likely to complain to any court. Probably just cut the cable, stuck a burst of power up it and dropped it again. Clearly an accident Smile

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  hoom on Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:39 am

    https://twitter.com/syrianmilitary/status/788013850272686080 No idea how reliable or otherwise that is, hence 'allegedly'.

    Openly going 'here we are along your sonar cable, did you notice it stop working?' seems kinda more likely than 'oops we forgot to turn our GPS off while tapping internet cables'.

    There's certainly reports of internet cable issues in the area though, so at least some collateral damage anyway.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Militarov on Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:20 am


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:26 pm

    JohninMK wrote:

    Probably no legalities, the US is hardly likely to complain to any court. Probably just cut the cable, stuck a burst of power up it and dropped it again. Clearly an accident Smile


    Meeh, after mediterranem cabble is cut new accidents cna happen in Gulf Of Mexico Smile
    BTW What court can have jurisdiction over an independent state? all those mickey mouse tribunals in Hague are for small countries that you can bomb destroy intimidate?

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Shadåw on Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:10 pm

    franco wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:Two destroyers leave Vladivostok for a long range deployment. Are they headed to the Mediterranean or Yemen?  

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2187578.html

    In translation says that they will accompany A.Kuznetsov aircraft carrier. So towards Syria-Mediterranean

    They already have two destroyers from the Northern Fleet with them plus two Steregushchy Class Frigates from the Baltic Fleet on the way to join them. And waiting for them at Gibraltar are two Buyan-M corvettes. Quite a Battle Group being assembled.  

    Ahem, I should note that the Yuri Ivanov intelligence ship is also with the Kuznetsov-task group.



    Then there's also this pic of the Kuznetsov.





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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  zardof on Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:20 pm

    the fleet is growing to sumary we have :
    1 carrier "Adm Kuznetsov" and 1 heavy cruiser "Peter Veliky"
    2 Udalov destroyer "Severomorsk" and "VA Kulakof"
    4 Fregates 2  "Stoiky"" and "Soobrazitelny" + "Y. Mudry" + "Ad Essen"
    2 corvettes BuyM "Zeleny Dol" and "Serpukhof"
    1 SSN minimum
    with support only 1 Tanker "S Osipov" + 2 tug "N Chiker" and SB-36 + AGI "Y. Ivanov"


    Already in Mediteranean sea
    AGI/ Ocea "yantar" + Mine sweeper "Kovronets"
    1 SS "Krasnodar" ?
    cruiser "Moskva""" back to Sebastopol ?
    1-2 BDK from Syrian express ?
    Support ?

    Somebody knows better current Mediterranean fleet ?

    If it is to deter USA to bomb Syrian gouvernent troops the price will be very efficient

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  zg18 on Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:27 am

    zardof wrote:the fleet is growing to sumary we have :
    1 carrier "Adm Kuznetsov" and 1 heavy cruiser "Peter Veliky"
    2 Udalov destroyer "Severomorsk" and "VA Kulakof"
    4 Fregates 2  "Stoiky"" and "Soobrazitelny" + "Y. Mudry" + "Ad Essen"
    2 corvettes BuyM "Zeleny Dol" and "Serpukhof"
    1 SSN minimum
    with support only 1 Tanker "S Osipov" + 2 tug "N Chiker" and SB-36 + AGI "Y. Ivanov"

    Plus from Pacific fleet: 


    1 Udaloy-classs destroyer "Admiral Tributs"


    1 Sovremennyy-class destroyer "Bystryy" 


    2 support ships

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:55 am

    Hm why all these ships this many isn't needed is russia trying to say it still has some blue water navy presence? it does but it's very small.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:32 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Hm why all these ships this many isn't needed is russia trying to say it still has some blue water navy presence? it does but it's very small.

    No.

    Aleppo will be done soon so Kuznetzov will most likely be taking over air ops near the coastline so Hmeim airbase crowd is freed up to handle Homs/Idlib situation and assists with Deir ez Zorr and maybe even covers siege lifting should they pursue that angle. Also, final data gathering is needed to finalize airplane/helicopter carriers designs.

    Peter the Great is there to provide AA cover in addition to Atalant class already present.

    Destroyers and frigates are there to provide decent exclusion zone for the next 4-5 months.

    All will be keeping an eye on random subs.

    Everyone knows what Buyans will be doing.

    Also, Yantar and Yuri Ivanov will need someone to run interference while they do their thing. I have a hunch that a lot of cables will be messed with between now and Christmas.

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