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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3

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    kvs
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  kvs on Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:52 pm

    Benya wrote:

    Well, I would like to see Gorshkov/Grigorovich class frigates everywhere too, but they would replace some existing ship classes, like Udaloy-class destroyers (Udaloys are among my personal favorite ships), and they are still a capapble ship class, although I have never seen reports about its nearing phasing out, so I suppose that they would remain in service until the early 2020s, though their decommission will be inevitable at some point, it wouldn't be happening in the near future.

    Speaking about Admiral Gorshkov- and Admiral Grigorovich- classes, they are coming slow but sure. We know that they have suffered from engine shortages (formerly engines were supplied by Ukraine, but due to the ongoing crisis, further supplied were discontinued), and AFAIK, domestic supplier NPO Saturn will only be able to supply new engines from 2017-2018.

    "only from 2017-2018". Yeah, total failure on the part of Russia.


    I don't have much information on subs, but I read that Lada-class submarines are a bit of a failure, since the last two of them were laid down with a 10 years lag between them, and both of them is said to enter service no later than 2019. That is insane! affraid

    Oh God, will you give it a rest. Anyone who thinks that a hull laid down in the 1990s would be completed on time is out to lunch. It is a miracle anything
    was built given the collapse of Russia's economy and government finances. I can't stand this sort of historical revisionism where Yeltsin's nightmare is
    laundered into some sort of golden era of freedom and the failure to complete projects launched during the 1990s is laid at Putin's feet.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada-class_submarine

    The above is a rare useful Wikipedia link.

    B-585 : laid down December, 1997, commissioned May, 2010 (note that commissioning comes a year or more later than completion).

    On the basis of the performance of the B-585, a full redesign was instituted in 2012.

    However, in November 2011 the Russian Navy decided that this class of submarines would not be accepted into service, as the lead boat had fallen far short of requirements during tests.[3] The lead boat was retained as a test vessel to experiment with various systems. The construction of the remaining boats of the class was frozen.

    On 27 July 2012, the Russian Navy commander-in-chief announced the resumption of the construction of the St. Petersburg-class submarines, having undergone extensive design changes.[4] In 2013 and 2015, two further boats were re-laid and commissioning is expected in 2017 and 2018.

    The B-586 was initially laid down in 2005 but restarted in 2013 with new plans.

    The B-587 was laid down in March, 2015 and is expected to be commissioned in 2019.

    I see a 4 year cycle from start of construction to commissioning. Yeah, another epic Russian failure.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:41 pm

    Press release from Severnaya Werf

    Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov class frigates
    2nd unit, Admiral Kasatonov will start trials late in 2016
    3rd unit, Admiral Golovko will be launched in 2017

    Project 20385 Gremyashy class corvettes

    1st unit, Gremyashy will be commissioned in 2018
    2nd unit, Provorny will be commissioned in 2019

    Project 20380 Steregushy class corvettes
    5th unit, Rezky will be commissioned in 2018
    6th unit, Strogy will be commissioned in 2018

    Project 18280 Yuri Ivanov class communication/command ships
    2nd unit will be launched in 2016 and commissioned end 2017

    Project 23120 Elbrus logistic support ships
    1st unit, Elbrus will be commissioned in 2016
    2nd unit, Vsevolod Bobrov will be launched in 2016


    In other news

    Corvette Sovershenny (project 20380) is completed in the Far East shipyard.
    She is now undergoing demagnetization (Degaussing).


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:00 am

    I guess the analogues in military aviation are the B-52 and Tu-95. We are talking about 1950s aircraft in operation over 60 years
    later and no hurry to retire them. For some reason people expect navy ships to be like consumer automobiles with a 10 year lifespan.

    Actually the Tu-95 is not really a 1950s aircraft.

    It is mistaken for a WWII aircraft with its propellers but in actual fact it is a jet... or more accurately a turboprop aircraft... in fact it is currently the worlds fastest propeller driven aircraft and one of the few prop driven aircraft that actually benefit from a swept wing design.

    Aerodynamically it was redesigned in the 1970s to improve its flight performance and got the designation Tu-142M.

    All in service Bears (bombers and ASW aircraft) are less than 40 years old, unlike the US B-52s... many of which are older than the parents of their current pilots.

    I don't have much information on subs, but I read that Lada-class submarines are a bit of a failure, since the last two of them were laid down with a 10 years lag between them, and both of them is said to enter service no later than 2019. That is insane!

    Not really. The Lada class subs were very ambitious designs that were intended to bring the level of performance of a nuclear powered attack sub (ie SSN) to the coastal conventionally powered sub... ie an SSK with the sensor capability and weapon variety and capacity of a SSN.

    It was a very ambitious programme that came up short in the first model. The second two hulls are to be adapted to make changes necessary to make them effective but a brand new design has been developed to replace them all... this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened of course... the Mike class nuclear sub was super advanced in several ways and was actually lost. The Lada was tested and found some things didn't work as well as expected so fundamental changes were needed that would be too expensive to be applied to the already built model but could be adapted to the two hulls on the slipway. The original Lada class will be kept for testing new systems, so operational boats wont need to be withdrawn from service to do the same.

    I see a 4 year cycle from start of construction to commissioning. Yeah, another epic Russian failure.

    AFAIK the two remaining Lada class subs will be used to test the AIP system and new batteries they have developed... you can use computer models and scale models all you like but to test properly you need full scale models to test... which is what the three Lada vessels are... the results will be applied to the kalina design no doubt.


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    hoom
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  hoom on Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:38 pm

    The article was mostly bollocks no doubt & I think the Russian navy is at least trying to do the right stuff but you guys are not in reality when you say the existing fleet is not that old.

    While a lot of the current Russian fleet entered service in the late '80s/early '90s a bunch of those had long hiatus, there are still plenty from the '70s & even some from the '60s.
    It's one thing to keep old stuff in service when its been kept well maintained & given repeated upgrades through time but most of the former Soviet fleet got tied up for ~20yrs barely maintained & not kept upgraded.

    Soviet period ships are pretty amazing & the potential for them if upgraded with modern systems is huge but its been noted that most are in such bad shape they need to be stripped to bare hull & rebuilt which costs basically the same in $$$ & time as building a new ship.
    Even doing that huge upgrade you're left with an old hull & a bunch of old systems that you didn't replace.

    A bunch of what is nominally in service is not practically able to go to sea & even those that go to sea are notorious for being accompanied by tugs, these ships desperately need replacing/upgrading.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Ned86 on Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:23 pm

    hoom wrote:
    A bunch of what is nominally in service is not practically able to go to sea & even those that go to sea are notorious for being accompanied by tugs, these ships desperately need replacing/upgrading.

    If ship is accompanied by tugs, that does not mean the ship is in bad conditions. That's typical western propaganda, which try to create a stereotype about "obsolete" and "unreliable" Russian navy, which is always follow by tugs. Sometimes, I got a feeling that 90% of Russian navy are tugs, which are only one in good conditions.
    Tugs are part of every navy in the world and they are there because they are necessary in the case of break down. Also, crew of tugs needs practice too on long journeys.

    There is a list of active ships and submarines in https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/100269/227305704.22/0_1572ee_1f565e89_orig.

    I can only say that Russian navy is still respective force, with 60+ submarines of which 37 are in battle ready conditions, while rests are on modernization or repairs. That means more than 50% of submarines are active.
    we have 22(39 total) active nuclear submarines and 15(20 total) active diesel submarines.  

    We don't have a data for US navy or other NATO members states. But quiet often there was reports about problems in NATO navies too, for example there were situation with just one multipurpose submarine on active in UK navy.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3065973/Britain-s-Royal-Navy-just-one-nuclear-powered-submarine-active-patrol-five-service-repaired.html

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  kvs on Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:30 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I guess the analogues in military aviation are the B-52 and Tu-95. We are talking about 1950s aircraft in operation over 60 years
    later and no hurry to retire them. For some reason people expect navy ships to be like consumer automobiles with a 10 year lifespan.

    Actually the Tu-95 is not really a 1950s aircraft.

    It is mistaken for a WWII aircraft with its propellers but in actual fact it is a jet... or more accurately a turboprop aircraft... in fact it is currently the worlds fastest propeller driven aircraft and one of the few prop driven aircraft that actually benefit from a swept wing design.


    My last off topic post. The Tu-95 first flew in November, 1952. It was adopted in 1956. It had turbo-prop engines from the beginning and the Kuznetsov NK-12's have
    persisted with updates. I know that the current Tu-95s were built during the 1980s and 1990s. The point I was making is replacing ships just to modernize them is
    something consumers would think is normal. Updating the systems on ships can prolong their useful lives by decades. Russia is not in some crisis where it needs
    to replace every ship it has in the navy.


    Aerodynamically it was redesigned in the 1970s to improve its flight performance and got the designation Tu-142M.

    No, it kept its original shape since 1952 until the present day. Any changes were almost cosmetic in nature (http://fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/tu-95.htm).


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  kvs on Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:37 pm

    Ned86 wrote:
    hoom wrote:
    A bunch of what is nominally in service is not practically able to go to sea & even those that go to sea are notorious for being accompanied by tugs, these ships desperately need replacing/upgrading.

    If ship is accompanied by tugs, that does not mean the ship is in bad conditions. That's typical western propaganda, which try to create a stereotype about "obsolete" and "unreliable" Russian navy, which is always follow by tugs. Sometimes, I got a feeling that 90% of Russian navy are tugs, which are only one in good conditions.
    Tugs are part of every navy in the world and they are there because they are necessary in the case of break down. Also, crew of tugs needs practice too on long journeys.

    There is a list of active ships and submarines in https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/100269/227305704.22/0_1572ee_1f565e89_orig.

    I can only say that Russian navy is still respective force, with 60+ submarines of which 37 are in battle ready conditions, while rests are on modernization or repairs. That means more than 50% of submarines are active.
    we have 22(39 total) active nuclear submarines and 15(20 total) active diesel submarines.  

    We don't have a data for US navy or other NATO members states. But quiet often there was reports about problems in NATO navies too, for example there were situation with just one multipurpose submarine on active in UK navy.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3065973/Britain-s-Royal-Navy-just-one-nuclear-powered-submarine-active-patrol-five-service-repaired.html


    It is clear that there is an information war by NATO against Russia. Serious issues in NATO navies are downplayed and trivial issues in Russia's navy are blown
    up into massive problems. All propaganda requires ignorance of the information consumer. That ignorance is rampant.

    https://news.usni.org/2016/08/30/lcs-uss-coronado-suffers-engineering-casualty-returning-pearl-harbor?utm_source=USNI+News&utm_campaign=c5dfae19a0-USNI_NEWS_DAILY&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0dd4a1450b-c5dfae19a0-230439881&mc_cid=c5dfae19a0&mc_eid=b753685840

    Looks like the new US littoral combat ships have serious design and build quality issues. I'll take a Russian "rust bucket" that actually works over this US
    crap any day.

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    Limits between the Russian Navy and the Russian Coast Guard (FSB)

    Post  eehnie on Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:09 pm

    Like in every branch of the Russian Armed Forces, there is also a part of the security forces, that use the same type of equipment.

    In this case, while the branch of the Russian Armed Forces that is working with sea warfare is the Russian Navy, and the most important branch of the security forces that use also sea based platforms as equipment is the Coast Guard of the Border Service of the Federal Security Service of Russia (FSB).

    I tend to think that the Armed Forces must have exclusive use of some types of equipment that are too strong for its use by the Security forces. We can try to see where are the limits, in this case between the warfare used by the Russian Navy and the equipment used by the Coast Guard.

    In my opinion, this would be the warfare that should be of use exclusive of the Russian Navy:

    - Ships and submarines that fire Weapons of Mass Destruction (nuclear,...).
    - Ships and submarines that fire surface-air missiles that can not be fired by portable-man portable launchers.
    - Ships and submarines that fire surface-surface missiles that can not be fired by portable-man portable launchers.
    - Ships and submarines that fire antisubmarine missiles that can not be fired by portable-man portable launchers.
    - Ships and submarines that fire artillery ammunition (including anti-armour) that can not be fired by portable-man portable launchers (today the limit is in the 120mm caliber), except anti-submarine artillery.
    - Ships that become platforms for combat aircrafts or helicopters (armed with equivalent to the cited weapons).
    - Ships for the role of minesweeping.
    - Ships for the role of landing.

    The weapons where would not be bad if the Coast Guard can access in low amounts:
    - Torpedoes.
    - Anti-submarine mortars (with ammunition that frees torpedoes or depth charges).

    Other big caliber warfare that would not be bad if there are shared by both the Russian Navy and the Russian Coast Guard:
    - Decoy systems.
    - Guided sea mines (self guided).

    In fact this fits very well with the current situation. Only in a few cases the ships of the Russian Coast Guard would exceed this armament level. And at same time, the ships of the Russian Navy that reach not this livel are basically Auxiliary Ships.

    Ships of the Russian Coast Guard that have armament or roles of the level of the Russian Navy:
    - 3 Project 11351 Krivak class ships.
    - 1 Project 1265 Sonya class minesweeper. The Russian navy has many of them.
    - 5 Project 1330 --- class minesweepers.
    - 2 Project 1176 Ondatra class landing ships. The Russian Navy has many of them.
    - 3 Project T-4 T-4 class landing ships.

    Surely it would be interesting the transference of these ships from the Russian Coast Guard to the Russian Navy.


    Last edited by eehnie on Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:18 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  eehnie on Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:23 am

    hoom wrote:The article was mostly bollocks no doubt & I think the Russian navy is at least trying to do the right stuff but you guys are not in reality when you say the existing fleet is not that old.

    While a lot of the current Russian fleet entered service in the late '80s/early '90s a bunch of those had long hiatus, there are still plenty from the '70s & even some from the '60s.
    It's one thing to keep old stuff in service when its been kept well maintained & given repeated upgrades through time but most of the former Soviet fleet got tied up for ~20yrs barely maintained & not kept upgraded.

    Soviet period ships are pretty amazing & the potential for them if upgraded with modern systems is huge but its been noted that most are in such bad shape they need to be stripped to bare hull & rebuilt which costs basically the same in $$$ & time as building a new ship.
    Even doing that huge upgrade you're left with an old hull & a bunch of old systems that you didn't replace.

    A bunch of what is nominally in service is not practically able to go to sea & even those that go to sea are notorious for being accompanied by tugs, these ships desperately need replacing/upgrading.



    The real data is approximately this:

    1960s: 4 ships and submarines, 1.29%
    1970s: 25 ships and submarines. 8.12% including 3 captured to Ukraine.
    1980s: 118 ships and submarines. 38.31% including 2 captured to Ukraine.

    Today only 20 ships active or in the reserve have 40 years old 6.49%, and only 1 reached 50 years old just some days ago.

    This is the reality. This is not an old fleet. Far from true. The 90%+ of the fleet is under 36 years old.

    Recently decommissioned ships:

    - B-380 Project 641B submarine. Commissioned 1982. Decommissioned 2016.
    - B-402 Project 877 submarine. Commissioned 1984. Decommissioned 2016.
    - R-47 Project 12411 missile boat. Commissioned 1987. Decommissioned 2016.

    To say that these ships have been retired because of lack of maintenance and updates in the 1990s is not right. These ships were between 3 and 8 years old in 1990 to need very much maintenance and updates. This kind of narrative is not right.

    These are early decommissions of a fleet in reduction mode. Some ships that are planned to be retired as excedents of the fleet will not have maintenance like others but this is logical. If something, it is first the decission of early decommission, and later, the lack of maintenance of the ships planned to be retired.


    Last edited by eehnie on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

    hoom
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  hoom on Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:52 am

    1960s: 4 ships and submarines, 1.29%
    1970s: 25 ships and submarines. 8.12% including 3 captured to Ukraine.
    1980s: 118 ships and submarines. 38.31% including 2 captured to Ukraine.
    I don't think this disproves the point at all.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:24 am

    No, it kept its original shape since 1952 until the present day. Any changes were almost cosmetic in nature (http://fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/tu-95.htm).

    Hahahaha.. FAS?

    So you believe the Tu-95 is based on the B-29 bomber?

    The design of the Bear was totally upgraded in the 1970s with a new wing to improve flight performance. New build Tu-95s got the new wing as well.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  eehnie on Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:58 pm

    hoom wrote:
    1960s: 4 ships and submarines, 1.29%
    1970s: 25 ships and submarines. 8.12% including 3 captured to Ukraine.
    1980s: 118 ships and submarines. 38.31% including 2 captured to Ukraine.
    I don't think this disproves the point at all.

    This is because you do not know how would be a well balanced and continuous process of production/replacement of ships.

    In a continuous and well balanced process where the maximum age in the fleet is projected to be 50 years old, a 20% of the ships would be over 40 years old, and a 50% of the ships would be over 25 years old.
    In a continuous and well balanced process where the maximum age in the fleet is projected to be 45 years old, a 11.11% of the ships would be over 40 years old, and a 44.44% of the ships would be over 25 years old.

    The numbers agree not with your argument about an old fleet, and about a lack of maintenance and updating as cause of the early retirement of the ships (because the ships of the 80s were too young to require big maintenance and updating in the 90s. The reality is more the inverse, the ships projected to be retired early are having lower maintenance and updating (as it is logical).

    Note that of the 11 US aircraft carriers currently commissioned:

    1960s: 1 aircraft carrier, 9.09% (54 years old)
    1970s: 2 aircraft carriers, 18.18%
    1980s: 3 aircraft carriers, 27.27%

    At this point 6 aircraft carriers reached 25 years old (54.55%), of them 2 aircraft carriers reached 40 years old (18.18%) and of them 1 aircraft carrier reached 50 (9.09%).

    Obviously the US fleet of aircraft carriers is older than the Russian Navy.


    Last edited by eehnie on Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:47 pm; edited 5 times in total

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  George1 on Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:59 pm

    Russian Navy had started to expanded from mid 80s (Kirov class cruisers, Typhoon class SSBN, projects for super-carriers) to US Navy level but USSR collapse halted that progress


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:54 pm

    Nice "sortie" of the Caspian fleet for the KAVKAZ-2016 exercises:


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Rmf on Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:19 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    I see a 4 year cycle from start of construction to commissioning. Yeah, another epic Russian failure.

    AFAIK the two remaining Lada class subs will be used to test the AIP system and new batteries they have developed... you can use computer models and scale models all you like but to test properly you need full scale models to test... which is what the three Lada vessels are... the results will be applied to the kalina design no doubt.

    lada class failed. even russians admited that. that much sensors need lot of power and manpower, you jsut cant copy from nuclear to conventional submarine and expect a smooth sailing ... they tested stirling AIP on submerged platforms - barges  you dont need to build expencive sub for that , lol Laughing
    in the end they went for fuell cell but high powered variant they want 0,4 MW  ,while german versions have 0,2 MW.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    No, it kept its original shape since 1952 until the present day. Any changes were almost cosmetic in nature (http://fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/bomber/tu-95.htm).

    Hahahaha.. FAS?

    So you believe the Tu-95 is based on the B-29 bomber?

    The design of the Bear was totally upgraded in the 1970s with a new wing to improve flight performance. New build Tu-95s got the new wing as well.
    That is completely true. Tu-142/Tu-95MS are not only newly built (from the late 70's to the early 90's), but also very different versions and much improved when compared to early Tu-95 (A, RT, K). The Tu-95 design evolved much more, and in a much longer timeframe, than the B-52, which like I said stopped being produced in the early 60's. All B-52H now in service are 50+ aircraft.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:21 am

    Changing of the ships on the Syrian Express by the look of it. Minsk has just passed through the Channel on its way north whilst Alexander Shabalin has just passed southbound. Bet there were some emotional scenes, much waving, when they passed each other off the English coast, one suspects that they may have been pretty close to each other at that moment  Very Happy

    The Minsk, probably never designed for months of continuous operation, seems to have coped, along with the rest of the class, very well with operating virtually without stop between the Russian ports on the Black Sea and Syria.

    The Alexander Shabalin looked as deep in the sea as any we have seen going through the Bosphorus so she is probably fully loaded with stuff. Good introduction to the real world! Just hope the Bay of Biscay was kind to them, its only a small ship.



    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3779657/Royal-Navy-warship-tracks-Russian-military-vessels-pass-British-waters.html

    EDIT

    Looks like the Daily Mail got this wrong. The number 110 seemed familiar so I checked on TurkishNavy.net and quess what, both 127 Minsk and 110 Alexander Shabalin are already on the Syrian Express.

    It is clearly 110 in their photo and since she passed southbound through the Bosphorus on 30/8 she could probably not be southbound in the North Sea 10 days later.

    It looks like 127 in the other photo and Minsk passed southbound through the Bosphorus on the 12/8 so could perhaps have gone to the Baltic or Northern Fleet and back south in the North for the 9/9 but there was nothing in the papers about her passing through the Channel.

    Maybe they just got them the wrong way round. If they did, what was so important for one of these ships to do this huge round trip for that could not have gone on a plane? Especially if 127 is so loaded northbound. They are both Baltic Fleet ships.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:38 am

    lada class failed. even russians admited that. that much sensors need lot of power and manpower, you jsut cant copy from nuclear to conventional submarine and expect a smooth sailing ... they tested stirling AIP on submerged platforms - barges you dont need to build expencive sub for that , lol

    Idiot.

    They should have simply asked you because you obviously always knew it would never work.

    Perhaps if you offered your services to them they could save trillions because they would never need full scale tests of everything, because obviously a computer model, a test stand on a barge and your valuable input would tell them instantly what will work and what will not.

    Back in the real world the Kalina subs are going to be what the Lada subs were not and that is mainly because what they learned from full sized production of the first lada boat and its testing and the adaptations made to the two further Lada subs that had been started.

    If it was just about testing an AIP system an existing sub could easily have been adapted to the purpose, but there were a range of new technologies and systems that had to work together for everything to work properly so they had to test full scale.

    In the real world you learn just as much from things that don't work as you do from things that do... for you to call it a failure is why I call you an idiot.

    The definition of a failure is someone who never tries because they fear to fail.

    If you never risk you never fail but you really don't succeed at anything either... most millionaires and billionaires have lost everything at some stage in their lives...

    in the end they went for fuell cell but high powered variant they want 0,4 MW ,while german versions have 0,2 MW.

    The fuel cell they were testing was one using diesel as the source of energy, I don't know why you mention stirling engines, AFAIK they have tested those in subs decades ago and rejected them... they are noisy.

    BTW looking up AIP in wiki I found this paragraph:

    Because liquid oxygen cannot be stored indefinitely, these boats could not operate far from a base. It was dangerous; at least seven submarines suffered explosions, and one of these, M-256, sank following an explosion and fire. They were sometimes nicknamed cigarette lighters. The last submarine using this technology was scrapped in the early 1970s.

    But of course storing O2 is safe... right.



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    Big_Gazza
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:04 pm

    Ignore RMF and his absurd "LOX is safe" mantra. Its a very dangerous material to store and handle in an enclosed space, and that is the end of the discussion. Pure oxygen atmospheres (ie in the vicinity of a LOX leak) support combustion to a frightening degree, and many materials (even nominally "flame retardant" ones) that may only smolder in normal air will burn readily in elevated O2 conditions.

    Contrary to popular belief, oxygen doesn't actually burn and is not explosive in itself, but as an innate oxidiser, it strongly supports combustion.

    Rmf
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Rmf on Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:32 pm

    russian navy hit rock bottom and no amount of garryism is going to change that.
    caliing others idiot ahahahhaaa, the man who knows all knows- nothing ....as someone said so i just quit here wont even comment on this b.s. like said too much garryism , time to pulll out....

    Singular_trafo
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:38 pm

    Rmf wrote:
    GarryB wrote:

    I see a 4 year cycle from start of construction to commissioning. Yeah, another epic Russian failure.

    AFAIK the two remaining Lada class subs will be used to test the AIP system and new batteries they have developed... you can use computer models and scale models all you like but to test properly you need full scale models to test... which is what the three Lada vessels are... the results will be applied to the kalina design no doubt.

    lada class failed. even russians admited that. that much sensors need lot of power and manpower, you jsut cant copy from nuclear to conventional submarine and expect a smooth sailing ... they tested stirling AIP on submerged platforms - barges  you dont need to build expencive sub for that , lol Laughing
    in the end they went for fuell cell but high powered variant they want 0,4 MW  ,while german versions have 0,2 MW.

    It is not a problem with the Lada class, rather a problem with the fuel cell submarines.

    The German AIP submarines has smilar issues, because the part load destroy prematurely the fuel cells modules, so they need to cut the submarine in every year to keep on level the performance.

    Singular_trafo
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:39 pm

    Rmf wrote:russian navy hit rock bottom and no amount of garryism is going to change that.
    caliing others idiot ahahahhaaa, the man who knows all knows- nothing ....as someone said so i just quit here wont even comment on this b.s. like said too much garryism , time to pulll out....


    sounds like fanboyism.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:02 am

    Rmf wrote:russian navy hit rock bottom and no amount of garryism is going to change that.
    caliing others idiot ahahahhaaa, the man who knows all knows- nothing ....as someone said so i just quit here wont even comment on this b.s. like said too much garryism , time to pulll out....

    Oh, just sod off...

    AlfaT8
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:20 pm

    Haven't heard much about Sigma in a while, has there been any new developments?

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:41 pm

    Impressive.
    PELLA shipyard in St. Petersburg was building only tug boats and other small craft a few years ago.
    Now they are building the pr. 22800 KARAKURT

    and yesterday they laid down a large oceanographic survey ship the Academic Ageev.




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