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    Russian Navy: Status & News #3

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    franco
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  franco on Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:46 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    Austin wrote:Russia’s Naval Power in the 21st Century

    https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2015/07/27/russias-naval-power-in-the-21st-century/


    I wasted an hour and a half of my time watching that video cry

    I lasted 20 minutes. Embarassed

    nobunaga
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  nobunaga on Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:40 pm

    franco wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:
    Austin wrote:Russia’s Naval Power in the 21st Century

    https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2015/07/27/russias-naval-power-in-the-21st-century/


    I wasted an hour and a half of my time watching that video cry

    I lasted 20 minutes. Embarassed


    I watched the hole thing,they had some god points but overall i wouldn't call them experts on Russia or Russia navy.....i could have sad much more without reading from paper and i don't consider my self expert or anything simillar

    Still they were at least watchablle compared to some western comentators and "experts"

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Maximmmm on Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:05 pm

    nobunaga wrote:
    I watched the hole thing,they had some god points but overall i wouldn't call them experts on Russia or Russia navy.....i could have sad much more without reading from paper and i don't consider my self expert or anything simillar

    Still they were at least watchablle compared to some western comentators and "experts"

    They're experts in context. Usually the level of debate in those "think tanks" is pathetically low or amazingly biased. For a western view that was pretty good. We're all on dedicated forum so we know more, but as a primer for some english-speaker it does the trick.


    Also in the news:
    Kilo-class vladikavkaz is ready to undergo sea trials after 7 years in overhaul.

    franco
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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  franco on Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:13 pm

    Maximmmm wrote:
    nobunaga wrote:
    I watched the hole thing,they had some god points but overall i wouldn't call them experts on Russia or Russia navy.....i could have sad much more without reading from paper and i don't consider my self expert or anything simillar

    Still they were at least watchablle compared to some western comentators and "experts"

    They're experts in context. Usually the level of debate in those "think tanks" is pathetically low or amazingly biased. For a western view that was pretty good. We're all on dedicated forum so we know more, but as a primer for some english-speaker it does the trick.


    Also in the news:
    Kilo-class vladikavkaz is ready to undergo sea trials after 7 years in overhaul.

    Dmitry Gorenburg is one of the foremost academic Western experts on Russia and the FSU. That in context can be scary. I believe in this case he was playing to the sentiments of this crowd.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Maximmmm on Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:20 pm

    franco wrote:

    Dmitry Gorenburg is one of the foremost academic Western experts on Russia and the FSU. That in context can be scary. I believe in this case he was playing to the sentiments of this crowd.

    Yeah, agreed.

    We don't really have a similar "expert" culture, so I assume the guys who know the most are all under wraps working in a nondescript building somewhere.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:55 pm

    Maximmmm wrote:
    franco wrote:

    Dmitry Gorenburg is one of the foremost academic Western experts on Russia and the FSU. That in context can be scary. I believe in this case he was playing to the sentiments of this crowd.

    Yeah, agreed.

    We don't really have a similar "expert" culture, so I assume the guys who know the most are all under wraps working in a nondescript building somewhere.

    Fact that they all think that the scale models of future aircraft carrier and nuclear destroyer that were shown on Navy Expo a while back are real projects is hilarious in itself. Even 8 graders know that real things will not even resemble those scale models...

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  artjomh on Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:16 pm

    franco wrote:Dmitry Gorenburg is one of the foremost academic Western experts on Russia and the FSU. That in context can be scary. I believe in this case he was playing to the sentiments of this crowd.

    Dmitry Gorenburg is a decent fellow, but I would hesitate calling him a "foremost academic" or an "expert" on military affairs. He is a pretty general Russian affairs analyst with some defense/security bend.

    I think he is generally ok as a likbez source, but I wouldn't call him a subject matter expert. I've read a couple of his papers and listened to some of his podcasts with Cmdr Salamander at US Naval Institute and I found him to be pretty shallow in his explanations. Good top-side analysis, but not a lot of depth or insight, compared to the real military academics that would write for publications like the Proceedings or Military Thought. Stuff he says is pretty obvious to anyone who is familiar with the Russian military.

    Still, I echo Maximmmm's statement that as a primer for complete noobs it was pretty decent.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  artjomh on Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:24 pm

    Maximmmm wrote:Yeah, agreed.

    We don't really have a similar "expert" culture, so I assume the guys who know the most are all under wraps working in a nondescript building somewhere.

    That's because most of the analysis that people have readily available is essentially blogs written by "military enthusiasts" not much more knowledgeable than what you can read here on this forum.

    Real military academics from Western sources are head and shoulders above these bloggers. I've read some very impressive and serious research by active members of the US military. Analysis by people who, for example, wrote doctorate dissertations on the Russian Navy, not those who skimmed through Wikipedia and pretend they are qualified to give an opinion.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Maximmmm on Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:26 pm

    artjomh wrote:
    Maximmmm wrote:Yeah, agreed.

    We don't really have a similar "expert" culture, so I assume the guys who know the most are all under wraps working in a nondescript building somewhere.

    That's because most of the analysis that people have readily available is essentially blogs written by "military enthusiasts" not much more knowledgeable than what you can read here on this forum.

    Real military academics from Western sources are head and shoulders above these bloggers. I've read some very impressive and serious research by active members of the US military. Analysis by people who, for example, wrote doctorate dissertations on the Russian Navy, not those who skimmed through Wikipedia and pretend they are qualified to give an opinion.

    Of course of course, it would be really sad if that's the best they had. I'm sure the Pentagon's got some great analysts. What I meant is that compared to the US we don't really have a million think-tanks where people endlessly publish thinly-veiled political agendas, so when people hear stuff from "The Woodrow Wilson Centre" they have expectations that are too high.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:39 pm

    Maximmmm wrote:
    artjomh wrote:
    Maximmmm wrote:Yeah, agreed.

    We don't really have a similar "expert" culture, so I assume the guys who know the most are all under wraps working in a nondescript building somewhere.

    That's because most of the analysis that people have readily available is essentially blogs written by "military enthusiasts" not much more knowledgeable than what you can read here on this forum.

    Real military academics from Western sources are head and shoulders above these bloggers. I've read some very impressive and serious research by active members of the US military. Analysis by people who, for example, wrote doctorate dissertations on the Russian Navy, not those who skimmed through Wikipedia and pretend they are qualified to give an opinion.

    Of course of course, it would be really sad if that's the best they had. I'm sure the Pentagon's got some great analysts. What I meant is that compared to the US we don't really have a million think-tanks where people endlessly publish thinly-veiled political agendas, so when people hear stuff from "The Woodrow Wilson Centre" they have expectations that are too high.

    If your country has no agendas for world domination there is a very hard job to justify thousands over thousands of think tanks and research centres to evaluade each possible way to hurt anyone that could even remotley rival your country in political, military or economical way.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  artjomh on Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:02 pm

    Werewolf wrote:If your country has no agendas for world domination there is a very hard job to justify thousands over thousands of think tanks and research centres to evaluade each possible way to hurt anyone that could even remotley rival your country in political, military or economical way.

    Let me break it to you: Russia also has thousands upon thousands of think tanks on all sorts of issues with their own agendas and goals. Both public and private, competent and amateurish, old and new, academic and just-a-paid-tv-talking-head-type.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:39 am


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:28 pm


    Real military academics from Western sources are head and shoulders above these bloggers.

    I don't doubt that to be true, but such people also tend to have a strong western bias, and also for those actually in the US navy a preference for the way it is done in the US Navy without much critical thinking about why another way might be better... not just for another navy with less money and resources, but even for the US Navy itself.


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:01 pm


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:39 pm

    artjomh wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:If your country has no agendas for world domination there is a very hard job to justify thousands over thousands of think tanks and research centres to evaluade each possible way to hurt anyone that could even remotley rival your country in political, military or economical way.

    Let me break it to you: Russia also has thousands upon thousands of think tanks on all sorts of issues with their own agendas and goals. Both public and private, competent and amateurish, old and new, academic and just-a-paid-tv-talking-head-type.

    If amateurish or Paid TV talking heads are "Think Tanks" then DFI, F-16 and mp.nut (themess) are full off "Think Tanks".

    Think-Tanks are people like Brezinksy and alike not some bloggers,forumers and other non important people that do not transport their little thinking into actual ballistics.

    The word Think Tank already tells you its purpose and not just a mere brainstorm like Forumers. Think Tanks are paid to bring their proposed political moves to the real world.

    Russia hasn't nowhere near nor for the same purpose Think Tanks, they have them for economy, counter western influence, propaganda and their drive for WW3. Those are all legitimate and very good reasons for Think Tanks, not for global domination and enslavement of all.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Austin on Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:02 pm

    Found SmoothieX2 after a long time , He now runs a blog , He is ex Russian Navy and has good knowledge on Russian Submarine , So you can ask any questions you have in the blog and I have requested him to join RMF

    http://smoothiex12.blogspot.in/2015/07/russias-navy-day.html#comment-2174771999

    Check comment section for some questions answered

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Maximmmm on Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:11 pm

    Total confirmation that the found sub was the SOM
    http://flot.com/2015/%D0%A8%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B010/

    Divers went down to the old girl, got some great footage.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Austin on Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:39 pm




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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:13 am

    Very bad charts Austin... I mean if they completely withdraw the Akula II from service doesn't it suddenly become undetectable?

    Plus in 2009 how much actual data on the sound emissions from an in service Yasen or Borei class sub did they have actual access to?

    Zero.

    So it is just all estimates.

    But what is the purpose of this chart?

    The purpose is critical because it might just be a boogeyman chart for US naval personel to put the enemy threat in some sort of order, but it might also be an attempt to try to get better funding for ASW forces... in the latter case it might be exaggerated to illicit more funds, while in the former case it might be underestimated to prevent panic... in other words this is the order of quietness, but we can still detect them all easily enough...


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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  nastle77 on Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:29 pm

    http://www.military-today.com/navy/kara_class.htm



    A single gas-turbine exhaust funnel dominated the large superstructure. On the ship's stern was a helicopter landing pad with a hangar partially recessed below the flight deck. To stow the ASW helicopter the hanger roof hatch and doors had to be opened; the helicopter was pushed in and then lowered to the deck via an elevator.

    The ship's Shtorm (SA-N-3 Goblet) and Rastrub (SS-N-14 Silex) ASW missiles have secondary anti-ship capabilities, the former having a 25-kiloton nuclear warhead available in place of the normal 150-kg HE type. At the height of the Cold War it is believed that all Soviet ships with dual-capable weapon systems had at least 25 per cent of their missiles equipped with nuclear warheads while at sea.


    Trying not to start too many new threads Wink

    These questions about Kara class

    1-Is it true the SAN-3 had nuke warheads ? WHat were they used against a group of aircraft ? another ship ? since its a dual role missile

    2-Did really soviet dual role weapons have 25 % nuke warheads at sea ?

    Can the helicopters on the Kara class be also used for guidance for cruise missiles like the SSN-3a/b of other ships ?

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:23 am

    1-Is it true the SAN-3 had nuke warheads ? WHat were they used against a group of aircraft ? another ship ? since its a dual role missile

    Just off the top of my head the SA-N-3 was one of the few naval SAMs not actually based on any land based Soviet SAM... I don't see why it could not be fitted with a nuclear warhead... they were big missiles with big conventional warheads.

    And I suspect when fitted with nukes they would be used against both ground and aerial targets... being command guided of course it could be steered at aerial and ground targets.

    2-Did really soviet dual role weapons have 25 % nuke warheads at sea ?

    I have no idea, I do know that was the western expectation.

    Can the helicopters on the Kara class be also used for guidance for cruise missiles like the SSN-3a/b of other ships ?

    There was a dedicated missile guidance version of the Ka-25 and Ka-32 that had external Yagi antenna mounted on their noses to transmit target data to the missiles.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Austin on Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:33 pm

    Russian Navy Eyes Il-114 as Future MPA

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Viktor on Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:42 pm

    Nice thumbsup

    Return to the Depths: This Soviet Sub Makes a Massive Comeback

    Russia's Zvezdochka shipyard completed repairs and modernization work on the BS-64 Podmoskovie nuclear submarine after 15 years in the slipway.

    In its sea trials, the BS-64 Podmoskovie ("Suburban Moscow") will cooperate with other nuclear submarines such as the Kashalot ("Cachalot"), Paltus ("Halibut") and the infamous Losharik. Originally laid down in 1982 and in service from 1986 to 1999, the BS-64, the submarine, then known as the K-64, spent nearly 16 years in the dock for repairs and modernization.

    During the repairs, the submarine's missile bays were removed and replaced with scientific research facilities. The modernization also added equipment for docking to other submarines.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  Austin on Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:48 pm

    Austin wrote:Russian Navy Eyes Il-114 as Future MPA

    What is the payload capacity for IL-114 ?

    The IL-38N has 9 Tons payload but looks like IL-114 would be lesser on range and payload.

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    Re: Russian Navy: Status & News #3

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:37 am

    Payload is about 6 tons from memory, but they were talking about more powerful engines for hot and high potential like the An-32 (ie the Il-112V could replace the An-26 and the heavier more powerful Il-114 could replace the An-32 for hot and high)

    the endurance of 14 hours is more important than actual payload... modern torpedos should be lighter but just as effective and the Il-114 should be smaller and lighter and cheaper than the Il-38N, so hopefully they might buy them and use them in larger numbers, or perhaps use them in conjunction with long range drones.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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