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    Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:59 pm

    BlackArrow wrote:
    mack8 wrote:Sheytan, regarding a possible attack on Baghdad, i would have thought it is very heavily defended no, sleeper-cells or no sleeper cells? How do you see such an attack unfolding?

    looks like no help from US


    Of course not, don't forget who is supporting, training  and arming the jihadists fighting against both Syria and Iraq: the US (with very certain israeli "advice"- and i'm not saying that because i'm "anti-semite", i loath them for their actions, not for their ethnicity) coordinating and orchestrating things from the shadows, and KSA and other GCC puppet states in the region doing the actual dirty work.

    You would want some eveidence for that I'd say? Americans supporting the Jihadists??

    Al.-CIAda, Al Nusra, Taliban, in Mali,Sudan,Chechen terrorists yes USA is financing and supporting jihadists, it is a fact!
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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:00 am

    BlackArrow wrote:You would want some eveidence for that I'd say? Americans supporting the Jihadists??

    Who do you think made about 300 000 terrorist that where in Syria - out of nowhere - search terrorist youtube channels where they describe in detail how

    are being trained by US forces to kill

    Syria faced and won the biggest USA/Izrael/Turkey/Qatar/Saudi/Britain/France/Jordan terrorist plot the World has ever seen
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:09 am

    BlackArrow wrote:
    mack8 wrote:Sheytan, regarding a possible attack on Baghdad, i would have thought it is very heavily defended no, sleeper-cells or no sleeper cells? How do you see such an attack unfolding?

    looks like no help from US


    Of course not, don't forget who is supporting, training  and arming the jihadists fighting against both Syria and Iraq: the US (with very certain israeli "advice"- and i'm not saying that because i'm "anti-semite", i loath them for their actions, not for their ethnicity) coordinating and orchestrating things from the shadows, and KSA and other GCC puppet states in the region doing the actual dirty work.

    You would want some eveidence for that I'd say? Americans supporting the Jihadists??

    Well why don't you ask Obama's adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski weather U.S. trains, and supply's Islamic extremists...

    Here's Zbig calling for Afghan Mujahadeen to go on Jihad against the Soviets back in the 1980's:



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    dino00

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:46 am

    Viktor wrote:
    BlackArrow wrote:You would want some eveidence for that I'd say? Americans supporting the Jihadists??

    Who do you think made about 300 000 terrorist that where in Syria - out of nowhere - search terrorist youtube channels where they describe in detail how

    are being trained by US forces to kill

    Syria faced and won the biggest USA/Izrael/Turkey/Qatar/Saudi/Britain/France/Jordan terrorist plot the World has ever seen

    True but not 300 000, maybe half of that.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:24 am

    dino00 wrote:
    Viktor wrote:
    BlackArrow wrote:You would want some eveidence for that I'd say? Americans supporting the Jihadists??

    Who do you think made about 300 000 terrorist that where in Syria - out of nowhere - search terrorist youtube channels where they describe in detail how

    are being trained by US forces to kill

    Syria faced and won the biggest USA/Izrael/Turkey/Qatar/Saudi/Britain/France/Jordan terrorist plot the World has ever seen

    True but not 300 000, maybe half of that.

    About 150 000 terrorists are in Syria right now but during this 3-4 years at least a 300 000 terrorists passed throughout Syria and was dealth by Syrian Army
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    mack8

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  mack8 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:14 pm

    Krokodil eating ISIL rats: Mi-35M in combat, paired with what might be a Bell-407 as a hunter killer team, weapon fit eight Ataka missiles on right, one B8V rocket pod on left. I could see at least 3 launches for 3 direct hits by Atakas.


    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:48 pm





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    mack8

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  mack8 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:23 am

    Wow it looks so used. Probably one of the first four, likely hasn't been cleaned since it came in Iraq. Must be some very intensive flying they do on them.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:18 am

    They are flying non stop...maybe 20+ sorties a day between them. The first ones will probably go back for overhaul next year!!

    And here's today's action

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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:08 am

    sheytanelkebir,

    thx for your efforts and try to keep us updated
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    Flyboy77

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Flyboy77 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:32 am

    Interest how they arm the Hind with 8 x Ataka all off one hardpoint. I would think that would unbalance it.

    Strizh

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Strizh on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:05 am

    Does anybody know which type of ATAKA missiles do they use?
    Greetings.

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:39 pm

    PRAGUE (AP) — The Czech Republic is in talks to possibly sell military helicopters to Iraq's government, which is struggling with a militant uprising.

    Defense Ministry spokesman Jan Pejsek says Iraqi officials expressed interest in buying up to 40 Russian-made Mi-24 helicopters when negotiating a different contract to buy 12 Czech-made L-159 light combat planes.

    Pejsek says the defense ministry has seven such helicopters it does not need and could be sold to Iraq.

    But any deal would take time because the helicopters would have to be modernized ( Russia ? ) first and Iraqi pilots would need to undergo training.

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:40 am

    Can someone explain the difference between Vikhr and Ataka


    Vikhr is used on the KA 52, it seems better.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:17 am

    iraqidabab wrote:Can someone explain the difference between Vikhr and Ataka


    Vikhr is used on the KA 52, it seems better.

    Vikhr is a multipurpose (multi warhead) ATGM that has a laser beam riding guidance and is impossible to jam, even smoke screen of the target itself will not break guidance.

    It has 12kg warhead which is Tandem HEAT warhead with 1100-1200mm RHAe penetration capability after ERA followed by HE-Frag warhead and is capable to be effectivley be used against low altitude and low speed up to 700m/s flying aircraft to intercept. It has two fuzes, the normal for Anti Armor role has a contact fuze so the primarly shaped charge warhead comes to use against the target and a proximity fuze that detonates 2.5-3m next to its target which can be used both, against aircraft but infantry on ground or other soft targets aswell.

    Ataka is radio command guided missile that uses tandem Shaped charge with 9kg warhead, the guidance is very resistent to jamming and EW environment overall.
    Since 1987 all russian made helicopters have air mode engagement aswell, meaning the radio guidance,laser beam or laser designation for missiles can be engaged on aircrafts, a weapon not really intented to be used against aircrafts through the shaped charge warhead but far better to have at all situation a missile that can hit aircrafts than coming into a situation being defenceless against aircraft because of lack of ATAM.

    Vikhr is indeed the better missile of both, it costs more, but still cheap through the guidance, which gives it the highest reliability even in harsh environments and it can reach it maximum range with while maintaining its guidance while radio command and even worse, Semi active laser homing missiles tend to have much lower maximum engagement range through environmental interference.

    Vikhr is faster, has higher firepower against soft and hard armored targets and aircraft, further range and higher hit probabiltiy while Ataka can do almost everything Vikhr can do but with little bit less penetration capability, lower speed, shorter distance 10km and not 12km like Vikhr.

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:14 am

    Thermobaric Vikhr would be a good replacement then. Iraq ran out of hellfire missiles and the US supplies too little/slow for the fixed wing aircraft King air 350, that only carries 2.

    I'm sure Russia can get 4-8 Vikhr on the aircraft.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:11 pm

    The standard Vikhr launcher on Ka-50 and Ka-52 (ie helos) is for 6 missiles per pylon, but for fixed wing use like the Su-25TM it has 8 missiles per pylon.

    They are laser beam riding, which makes them relatively cheap, tough to jam, and very accurate.

    The CEP at 8km was something like 80cm or 0.8m.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:07 pm

    Another big difference between Ataka/Shturm and Vikhr is the engine and stabilisation of the missile.

    Ataka missiles have a rather ordinary fashioned rocket engine, with the thrust at the bottom of the engine right next to the stabilisators of the missile, which has a very straight launching profile.

    You can see thrusters on this picture right between the stabilisators which keep the missile in rotating around its own axis but have a rather straight flight pattern like you can see in this little docu about Ataka missile system.




    The Vikhr missile has a different configuration and engine/thrusters arrangement, that is need because of the Laser beam guidance the missile has, otherwise it would lose guidance right after launch.

    Vikhr's thrusters are almost at the center of the missile which both adjust their thrust force differently which brings the missile launch profile into a helix like trajectory.

    Like on this picture from DCS Black Shark simulation



    And here a little docu about Vikhr missile.



    More info about soviet/russian missiles of all kind here.

    http://qwas.stl.ru/books/mil/Russian_arms_catalog.pdf
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:16 pm

    The Vikhr uses that rocket motor arrangement because it is a very long missile with relatively small fins... from memory it is also a very cheap missile... it only has two control fins so as the missile rolls in flight they can flap to keep the missile on target... in other words as the missile rolls when the fins are horizontal they can flap up or down to climb or descend but as it continues to roll they turn vertical so you can steer left or right and then the missiles are horizontal again so it can climb or descend more.

    Burning from the centre of the missile towards the back means when the missile is near the end of its flight the remaining rocket fuel is near the tail and balances the weight of the warhead in the nose... the RPG-7 does the same thing to maintain balance in flight.

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:33 am

    Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.

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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:35 am

    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:40 am

    well can't really confirm, it's not anyone official that said it just some other user on a different forum.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:08 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.

    If it was a Mi-35 that was shot down most likely the heavily armored cockpit would of survived, the Mi-8 series of helicopters has no where near the same amount of armor so the destruction pile looks more that of Mi-8 series helicopters.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:17 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.

    If it was a Mi-35 that was shot down most likely the heavily armored cockpit would of survived, the Mi-8 series of helicopters has no where near the same amount of armor so the destruction pile looks more that of Mi-8 series helicopters.

    Mi-8/17 like any other utiltiy/transport helicopter have as standard no armor at all, only some military armored versions have Bottom armored, rest is still unarmored.

    If a Mi-24 crashes and burns out it looks more like this.



    The cockpit must stay mostly intact. The tail and after section like the outerskin are made of aluminum alloy, which burns away at normal open fire temperatures, but steel and titanium at the cockpit can not burn away at 800 even at 1000° Celsius.

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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:33 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.

    If it was a Mi-35 that was shot down most likely the heavily armored cockpit would of survived, the Mi-8 series of helicopters has no where near the same amount of armor so the destruction pile looks more that of Mi-8 series helicopters.

    Mi-8/17 like any other utiltiy/transport helicopter have as standard no armor at all, only some military armored versions have Bottom armored, rest is still unarmored.

    If a Mi-24 crashes and burns out it looks more like this.



    The cockpit must stay mostly intact. The tail and after section like the outerskin are made of aluminum alloy, which burns away at normal open fire temperatures, but steel and titanium at the cockpit can not burn away at 800 even at 1000° Celsius.


    Yep, as I thought. So the claim that a Mi-35 was shot down is a myth that has been busted! Unless a massive armored cockpit shows up around the debris field in pictures that have not been previously published, the likeliness that a Mi-35 was shot down is slim-to-none!

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