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    Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

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    mack8

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  mack8 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:14 pm

    Krokodil eating ISIL rats: Mi-35M in combat, paired with what might be a Bell-407 as a hunter killer team, weapon fit eight Ataka missiles on right, one B8V rocket pod on left. I could see at least 3 launches for 3 direct hits by Atakas.


    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:48 pm





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    mack8

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  mack8 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:23 am

    Wow it looks so used. Probably one of the first four, likely hasn't been cleaned since it came in Iraq. Must be some very intensive flying they do on them.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:18 am

    They are flying non stop...maybe 20+ sorties a day between them. The first ones will probably go back for overhaul next year!!

    And here's today's action

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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:08 am

    sheytanelkebir,

    thx for your efforts and try to keep us updated
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    Flyboy77

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Flyboy77 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:32 am

    Interest how they arm the Hind with 8 x Ataka all off one hardpoint. I would think that would unbalance it.

    Strizh

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Strizh on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:05 am

    Does anybody know which type of ATAKA missiles do they use?
    Greetings.

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:39 pm

    PRAGUE (AP) — The Czech Republic is in talks to possibly sell military helicopters to Iraq's government, which is struggling with a militant uprising.

    Defense Ministry spokesman Jan Pejsek says Iraqi officials expressed interest in buying up to 40 Russian-made Mi-24 helicopters when negotiating a different contract to buy 12 Czech-made L-159 light combat planes.

    Pejsek says the defense ministry has seven such helicopters it does not need and could be sold to Iraq.

    But any deal would take time because the helicopters would have to be modernized ( Russia ? ) first and Iraqi pilots would need to undergo training.

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:40 am

    Can someone explain the difference between Vikhr and Ataka


    Vikhr is used on the KA 52, it seems better.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:17 am

    iraqidabab wrote:Can someone explain the difference between Vikhr and Ataka


    Vikhr is used on the KA 52, it seems better.

    Vikhr is a multipurpose (multi warhead) ATGM that has a laser beam riding guidance and is impossible to jam, even smoke screen of the target itself will not break guidance.

    It has 12kg warhead which is Tandem HEAT warhead with 1100-1200mm RHAe penetration capability after ERA followed by HE-Frag warhead and is capable to be effectivley be used against low altitude and low speed up to 700m/s flying aircraft to intercept. It has two fuzes, the normal for Anti Armor role has a contact fuze so the primarly shaped charge warhead comes to use against the target and a proximity fuze that detonates 2.5-3m next to its target which can be used both, against aircraft but infantry on ground or other soft targets aswell.

    Ataka is radio command guided missile that uses tandem Shaped charge with 9kg warhead, the guidance is very resistent to jamming and EW environment overall.
    Since 1987 all russian made helicopters have air mode engagement aswell, meaning the radio guidance,laser beam or laser designation for missiles can be engaged on aircrafts, a weapon not really intented to be used against aircrafts through the shaped charge warhead but far better to have at all situation a missile that can hit aircrafts than coming into a situation being defenceless against aircraft because of lack of ATAM.

    Vikhr is indeed the better missile of both, it costs more, but still cheap through the guidance, which gives it the highest reliability even in harsh environments and it can reach it maximum range with while maintaining its guidance while radio command and even worse, Semi active laser homing missiles tend to have much lower maximum engagement range through environmental interference.

    Vikhr is faster, has higher firepower against soft and hard armored targets and aircraft, further range and higher hit probabiltiy while Ataka can do almost everything Vikhr can do but with little bit less penetration capability, lower speed, shorter distance 10km and not 12km like Vikhr.

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:14 am

    Thermobaric Vikhr would be a good replacement then. Iraq ran out of hellfire missiles and the US supplies too little/slow for the fixed wing aircraft King air 350, that only carries 2.

    I'm sure Russia can get 4-8 Vikhr on the aircraft.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:11 pm

    The standard Vikhr launcher on Ka-50 and Ka-52 (ie helos) is for 6 missiles per pylon, but for fixed wing use like the Su-25TM it has 8 missiles per pylon.

    They are laser beam riding, which makes them relatively cheap, tough to jam, and very accurate.

    The CEP at 8km was something like 80cm or 0.8m.


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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:07 pm

    Another big difference between Ataka/Shturm and Vikhr is the engine and stabilisation of the missile.

    Ataka missiles have a rather ordinary fashioned rocket engine, with the thrust at the bottom of the engine right next to the stabilisators of the missile, which has a very straight launching profile.

    You can see thrusters on this picture right between the stabilisators which keep the missile in rotating around its own axis but have a rather straight flight pattern like you can see in this little docu about Ataka missile system.




    The Vikhr missile has a different configuration and engine/thrusters arrangement, that is need because of the Laser beam guidance the missile has, otherwise it would lose guidance right after launch.

    Vikhr's thrusters are almost at the center of the missile which both adjust their thrust force differently which brings the missile launch profile into a helix like trajectory.

    Like on this picture from DCS Black Shark simulation



    And here a little docu about Vikhr missile.



    More info about soviet/russian missiles of all kind here.

    http://qwas.stl.ru/books/mil/Russian_arms_catalog.pdf
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:16 pm

    The Vikhr uses that rocket motor arrangement because it is a very long missile with relatively small fins... from memory it is also a very cheap missile... it only has two control fins so as the missile rolls in flight they can flap to keep the missile on target... in other words as the missile rolls when the fins are horizontal they can flap up or down to climb or descend but as it continues to roll they turn vertical so you can steer left or right and then the missiles are horizontal again so it can climb or descend more.

    Burning from the centre of the missile towards the back means when the missile is near the end of its flight the remaining rocket fuel is near the tail and balances the weight of the warhead in the nose... the RPG-7 does the same thing to maintain balance in flight.


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    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:33 am

    Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.

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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:35 am

    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:40 am

    well can't really confirm, it's not anyone official that said it just some other user on a different forum.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:08 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.

    If it was a Mi-35 that was shot down most likely the heavily armored cockpit would of survived, the Mi-8 series of helicopters has no where near the same amount of armor so the destruction pile looks more that of Mi-8 series helicopters.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:17 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.

    If it was a Mi-35 that was shot down most likely the heavily armored cockpit would of survived, the Mi-8 series of helicopters has no where near the same amount of armor so the destruction pile looks more that of Mi-8 series helicopters.

    Mi-8/17 like any other utiltiy/transport helicopter have as standard no armor at all, only some military armored versions have Bottom armored, rest is still unarmored.

    If a Mi-24 crashes and burns out it looks more like this.



    The cockpit must stay mostly intact. The tail and after section like the outerskin are made of aluminum alloy, which burns away at normal open fire temperatures, but steel and titanium at the cockpit can not burn away at 800 even at 1000° Celsius.

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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:33 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.

    If it was a Mi-35 that was shot down most likely the heavily armored cockpit would of survived, the Mi-8 series of helicopters has no where near the same amount of armor so the destruction pile looks more that of Mi-8 series helicopters.

    Mi-8/17 like any other utiltiy/transport helicopter have as standard no armor at all, only some military armored versions have Bottom armored, rest is still unarmored.

    If a Mi-24 crashes and burns out it looks more like this.



    The cockpit must stay mostly intact. The tail and after section like the outerskin are made of aluminum alloy, which burns away at normal open fire temperatures, but steel and titanium at the cockpit can not burn away at 800 even at 1000° Celsius.


    Yep, as I thought. So the claim that a Mi-35 was shot down is a myth that has been busted! Unless a massive armored cockpit shows up around the debris field in pictures that have not been previously published, the likeliness that a Mi-35 was shot down is slim-to-none!

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:51 am

    A post from someone on another forum


    Hyde:

    You can see the main rotor head, and it's definitely the one of the Mi-28, so it's a Mi-35M. The Mi-8/17 and Mi-24 have a different rotor head.

    You can spot it by seeing the "arched" titanium "blade-holder" element reaching over to connect to something (looks like built in dampers to me, but I don't know), going from the rotor blade to the "damper". The Mi-17 rotor head is different and doesn't have those arches. And no Mi-17 version, not even the latest one not even released yet, uses the Mi-28 rotor head. They all use the Mi-8 rotor head.

    Pay attention to the lower left element:





    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:50 am

    double post


    Last edited by iraqidabab on Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:51 am; edited 1 time in total

    iraqidabab

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  iraqidabab on Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:46 am

    Due to Russia & Iran offering help ( quick Su-25's )

    The US got forced to react.

    http://thehill.com/policy/defense/211108-pentagon-sends-attack-helicopters-to-iraq
    The United States has sent Apache attack helicopters to Iraq as part of the buildup in U.S. military personnel, the Pentagon said Tuesday.

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    George1

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  George1 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:21 pm

    Iraq purchased six Su-30K fighters overhauled in Belarus
    Russian Aviaton » Wednesday July 2, 2014 11:33 MSK

    Director of Center for Analysis of World Arms Trade, Igor Korotchenko, suggested that Iraq purchased six Su-30K fighters overhauled in Belarus. Iraqi prime-minister Nouri al-Maliki said earlier that his country purchased a number of used Sukhoi fighters, RIA Novosti reports.

    "Most probably this refers to six Su-30K fighters, which were being overhauled by the 558th aircraft repair plant located in Baranovichi (Belarus)", — Korotchenko said.

    He explained that 18 Su-30K fighters have been previously operated by Indian air forces and then the jets were returned in accordance with the contract. After that the vehicles were overhauled by the plant located in Belarus.

    According to the expert, 12 out of 18 Su-30Ks were purchased by Angola and the rest six ones will likely be delivered to Iraq. "Given that Iraq is being attacked by ISIL terrorist group, the country needs urgent deliveries of combat aircraft in order to counter the aggression", — Korotchenko said.

    He also suggested that besides the abovementioned aircraft, Iraq may be interested in purchasing MiG-29 fighters and Mi-24 combat helicopters previously operated by Russia or Belarus.

    The governments of Iraq and Syria are trying to stop the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) terrorist group, which wants to capture and control a large territory rich with oil and gas. Over the last three weeks the members of ISIL supported by Sunni tribes and ex-soldiers of Iraqi army managed to capture several cities of Iraq and territories located on the border with Syria and Jordan. The Iraqi government asked USA and other countries for military support.
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    zg18

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  zg18 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:31 pm


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