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    Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

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    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:07 pm

    the structure of the 9th division is now:

    34th Bde - M1A1
    35th Bde - T90-SI
    36th Bde - M1A1
    37th Bde - for now BMP-1s but I think this is earmarked for BMP-3M
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    George1

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  George1 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:45 pm

    Iraqi Air Force received the next six combat trainers T-50IQ


    As previously reported by bmpd colleagues, Korea Aerospace Industries Corporation (KAI) signed a $ 1.1 billion contract to supply Iraq with 24 combat-training aircraft / light fighters T-50IQ on December 12, 2013. This aircraft is adapted to the requirements of the Air Force of Iraq version of the developed and produced KAI combat trainer / light fighter FA-50 - version of the training aircraft T-50 Golden Eagle joint development of KAI and Lockheed Martin. At the time of the conclusion, this contract became the largest one-time agreement on the sale of South Korean arms for export. The cost of the contract includes preparation of the Iraqi air and ground crew. Subsequently, the KAI also concluded several contracts for a comprehensive support of Iraqi aircraft for a period of 25 years, with a total value of $ 2 billion. Under the terms of the contract, the deliveries of the Iraqi Air Force's T-50IQ aircraft should be launched in April 2016 and carried out within 12 months by April 2017 . The first T-50IQ aircraft made the first flight at the KAI enterprise in Sanchon on July 13, 2015, and the first five aircraft were formally transferred to the Iraqi Air Force in Sanchon in December 2015. In fact, the deliveries were significantly delayed due to the financial problems of the Iraqi side and the delay in the training of Iraqi personnel. Only in March 2017, the first six T-50IQ aircraft were delivered to Iraq to Basra, the entry of which was delayed until the end of the year. The second batch should be delivered in 2018.













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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:29 pm

    George1 wrote:Iraqi Air Force received the next six combat trainers T-50IQ


    As previously reported by bmpd colleagues, Korea Aerospace Industries Corporation (KAI) signed a $ 1.1 billion contract to supply Iraq with 24 combat-training aircraft / light fighters T-50IQ on December 12, 2013. This aircraft is adapted to the requirements of the Air Force of Iraq version of the developed and produced KAI combat trainer / light fighter FA-50 - version of the training aircraft T-50 Golden Eagle joint development of KAI and Lockheed Martin. At the time of the conclusion, this contract became the largest one-time agreement on the sale of South Korean arms for export. The cost of the contract includes preparation of the Iraqi air and ground crew. Subsequently, the KAI also concluded several contracts for a comprehensive support of Iraqi aircraft for a period of 25 years, with a total value of $ 2 billion. Under the terms of the contract, the deliveries of the Iraqi Air Force's T-50IQ aircraft should be launched in April 2016 and carried out within 12 months by April 2017 . The first T-50IQ aircraft made the first flight at the KAI enterprise in Sanchon on July 13, 2015, and the first five aircraft were formally transferred to the Iraqi Air Force in Sanchon in December 2015. In fact, the deliveries were significantly delayed due to the financial problems of the Iraqi side and the delay in the training of Iraqi personnel. Only in March 2017, the first six T-50IQ aircraft were delivered to Iraq to Basra, the entry of which was delayed until the end of the year. The second batch should be delivered in 2018.













    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3236516.html

    I still think iraq would have been better with yak-130 cheaper or even JF-17 or Mig-29M2 or Su-30 if they had the cash. It would also be a good idea for iraq to upgrade it's su-25 to SM3 and could also purchase a handful of Su-24M2 with gefest etc ideal for the type of conflict cheap dumb bombs become very useful for strap for cash countries facing low tech wars. A mix of the above would be ideal Su-30 for long range interceptor and the cheaper mig-29M2 to protect cities and airfields. Su-24M2 for long range bombing  (bombing workhorse) upgraded su-25 for CAS.
    JF-17 and yak-130 patrolling and COIN along with the other aircraft in iraqi inventory including mi-28 & mi-35 & Mi-17. Iraqi airforce needs to be ground attack focused with only a small number dedicated for interceptor duties enough just to protect airspace in a light capacity as the threat is small.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:47 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    George1 wrote:Iraqi Air Force received the next six combat trainers T-50IQ

    I still think iraq would have been better with yak-130 cheaper

    but this is trainer not attack/fighter plane besides KAT T-50 is almost 2x faster on niveau of Rafale or F-18.



    or even JF-17 or Mig-29M2 or Su-30 if they had the cash.


    all more expensive especially Su-30. JF-17 is both more expensive and less modern than Korean one.


    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:38 pm

    first pic of iraqi BMP-3

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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:44 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    George1 wrote:Iraqi Air Force received the next six combat trainers T-50IQ

    I still think iraq would have been better with yak-130 cheaper

    but this is trainer not attack/fighter plane besides KAT T-50 is almost 2x faster on niveau of Rafale or F-18.



    or even JF-17 or Mig-29M2 or Su-30 if they had the cash.


    all more expensive especially Su-30. JF-17 is both more expensive and less modern than Korean one.


    Iraq doesn't really need fast aircraft only a handful for interceptor duties. I did state Su-30 if they had the cash. As for others being more expensive depends on the source being used some sources state T-50 more expensive than J-17 and mig. According to iraqinews article iraq paid $1.1 billion for 24 aircraft including training which divided gives $45.8 million each (Inc training) I am pretty sure they could have got J-17 or mig-29m2 for less. And I think mig-29m2 & J-17 are faster than T-50. One other thing to consider is cost of maintenance. The yak-130 has capacity to be armed and would be ideal for patrolling due to reduced costs but not as an interceptor unless against drones helicopters slower aircraft.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:36 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote:Iraq doesn't really need fast aircraft only a handful for interceptor duties.

    all countries do Smile



    As for others being more expensive depends on the source being used some sources state T-50 more expensive than J-17 and mig. According to iraqinews article iraq paid $1.1 billion for 24 aircraft including training which divided gives $45.8 million each (Inc training)


    depending what was in package.Usually this includes training, ground, and logistical support. So price of plane is just a fraction of cost. BTW Su-35 for China was 105mln $ /per fighter $hwrwe for Russian AF is about 2 blns Rub (~ 33 mlns $)




    I am pretty sure they could have got J-17 or mig-29m2 for less. And I think mig-29m2 &  J-17 are faster than T-50.
    Prices per plane are higher for both MiG and J-17. Unless you buy Chinese stuff without any support? besides Chinese electronics in olde designs IMHO still doesn't match Korean one.
    Additionally T-50 can be both fighter and trainer.


    The yak-130 has capacity to be armed and would be ideal for patrolling due to reduced costs but not as an interceptor unless against drones helicopters slower aircraft.
    Not sure if Yak would be interested in this or what was precise requirements of Iraqi AF. The fact is Koreans just won this time.

    Itisof course my "IMHO" against your "IMHO" Smile

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:43 pm

    The T-50IQ won because it has a design life of 10,000 flying hours before major overhaul. On that basis, it has a very good price per hour and very well automated maintenance and operational systems to make it easy to operate and maintain.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:59 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:The T-50IQ won because it has a design life of 10,000 flying hours before major overhaul. On that basis, it has a very good price per hour and very well automated maintenance and operational systems to make it easy to operate and maintain.

    That's was less what more less I thought. Cost of lifecyccle. Besides surely good dual purpose plane.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Militarov on Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:40 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:The T-50IQ won because it has a design life of 10,000 flying hours before major overhaul. On that basis, it has a very good price per hour and very well automated maintenance and operational systems to make it easy to operate and maintain.

    That's was less what more less I thought. Cost of lifecyccle. Besides surely good dual purpose plane.

    Plus, they already operate F-16s which are in core, extremly similar. Far easier for both pilots and ground crews to deal with it.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:08 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Iraq doesn't really need fast aircraft only a handful for interceptor duties.

    all countries  do Smile



    As for others being more expensive depends on the source being used some sources state T-50 more expensive than J-17 and mig. According to iraqinews article iraq paid $1.1 billion for 24 aircraft including training which divided gives $45.8 million each (Inc training)


    depending what was in package.Usually this includes training, ground, and logistical support. So price of plane is just  a fraction of cost. BTW  Su-35 for China was 105mln $ /per fighter  $hwrwe for Russian AF is about 2 blns Rub (~ 33 mlns $)  




    I am pretty sure they could have got J-17 or mig-29m2 for less. And I think mig-29m2 &  J-17 are faster than T-50.
    Prices per plane are higher for both MiG and J-17. Unless you buy Chinese stuff without any support? besides Chinese electronics in olde designs  IMHO still doesn't match Korean one.
    Additionally T-50 can be both fighter and trainer.


    The yak-130 has capacity to be armed and would be ideal for patrolling due to reduced costs but not as an interceptor unless against drones helicopters slower aircraft.
    Not sure if Yak would be interested in this or what was precise requirements of Iraqi AF. The fact is Koreans just won this time.  

    Itisof course my "IMHO" against your "IMHO" Smile

    I did state a handful of interceptors needed doesn't have much of an air threat.

    The article stated this "The order, including training, was valued at $1.1 billion, but the manufacturing Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) said supporting the aircraft over 20 years will take total revenue beyond $2 billion."

    Going by other orders of J-17 it's does seem cheaper even with training added in but chinese stuff is normally cheaper but I agree not always fantastic but does the job. My reasoning was iraq doesn't really need fancy or expensive equipment for the type of conflict it faces. There's plenty of other attack/trainers on the market. Ideally if they had the cash Su-30 but not shit loads of them add in some su-24m2 it's enough if you look at what's been doing most of the bombing in Iraq it's been Su-25, L-159, cessna 208.

    As for the su-35 chinese deal we all know that the price was high because China are going to copy the shit out of it they always do.

    Iraq along with other deals with Russia could have tied aircraft purchase into gain a discount with a country they already have defence relationship with this is first time for iraq and south Korea and first orders can be high. Maintenance and diplomatic relations is now key for these aircraft between iraq and south Korea (usa ally)

    I generally find iraq becoming a mish mash usa weapons now leaning towards Russia and other countries it will end up like Egypt looool. It's not necessarily bad thing just a nightmare when it comes to maintaining equipment as well as integration

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:02 am

    The Iraqi parliament in 1937 made a resolution that Iraq will pursue a "dual supply" policy for armaments after Great Britain stopped the supply of parts, service and ammunition to Iraq in the wake of the 1936 coup.

    The first result of that was Iraq buying a number of Italian tanks, attack and bomber planes between 1937-1940.

    Since 1937 it has been Iraqi policy to "dual source" armaments. This policy was maintained by:
    -the kingdom of Iraq from 1937-1958
    -The Socialist Leaning Qassim government from 1958-1963
    -The military rule from 1963-1968
    -The Baathist rule from 1968 - 2003
    -The elected Iraqi governments since 2004.


    Just giving a historical background and reasoning to what's happening in Iraq.


    With regards to Iraq "not needing" modern jets. Iraq's neighbours are all pretty hostile and Iraq has disputes economic / water / sectarian and ethnic with pretty much all of them.

    To the north You have Turkey with hundreds of F-16s and now F-35s
    to the East you have Iran with thousands of Ballistic Missiles
    Kuwait has F/A-18s and will be getting EF-2000s
    Saudi has hundreds of F-15s, EF-2000s etc...
    Israel has hundreds of F-15s F-16s and now F-35s

    So, erm, yes Iraq does have a pretty STRONG need for decent air defences! Far more than any Western European state at least!

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:10 am

    Iraq evaluated the JF-17 (there's a long discussion on the topic on iraqi military . org) .

    key weakness :
    -JF-17 has airframe life of 3500 hours vs T-50IQ 10,000 hours

    Key strength:
    -Better strategic armaments on JF-17 than T-50IQ (at least initially)

    We know that Iraq's current US-supplied armaments are weak... but we've seen that Iraqis are beginning to "mod" their equipment slowly.

    Last year they fitted Chinese Sat Guided munitions to their An-32 to make them into precision strike CAS for the army.

    Although there's little they can do to the F-16s... there's more flexibility with fitting decent munitions to the T-50IQ in future.
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    nomadski

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  nomadski on Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:13 am


    In my view , a true two track policy is one , where local manufacture is followed as well as purchases . I think Iraq as well as all ME nations should cooperate . And make joint investments . Build domestic industry and defence . Iran now builds everything . Apart from heavy combat jets . Iraq is not under sanctions . So the two can help each other . Does Iraq have a nuclear industry ? Iran has one . Pakistan scientists helped Iran with nuclear industry . This is the way to go .
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:44 am

    Am not saying T-50 is a bad jet and J-17 is great. Just thinking about cost saving and current needs iraq at the moment is not facing aggression from Iran in fact exact opposite. Israel can't be tackled due to usa big brother and likewise Saudi and Kuwait and I dont really see Kuwait wanting to fan flames. Turkey is only a threat to kurdish area's and iraq does have F-16  (F-16 vs F-16 lol) when finances improve better aircraft could be purchased I would say a T-50 isn't a secure bet at deterring Turkey or other nations Su-30 yes but cost to great for now.

    I've always been an advocate of joint ventures where countries with limited military industry team up instead of going it alone and producing half assed equipment. Belarus and Serbia are ideal countries to team up with. Local industry should produce small arms ammo and maybe an armoured wheeled vehicle max. The rest joint ventures with other countries would reduce costs and put enough money in to produce something reasonable. Ex soviet countries could also be brought in to the project. Serbia has done a few with a couple of ME countries already.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:52 am

    Which countries do you think iraq should source equipment from? USA was ok to begin with but now drag their heels something iraq can't afford long delays. When a country results in converting transport aircraft into improvised bomber's there's a need for better procurement partners. The Su-25 they got must have been a relief for them. Should iraq continue with usa equipment? (Unless it's gifted lol)

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:58 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:Which countries do you think iraq should source equipment from? USA was ok to begin with but now drag their heels something iraq can't afford long delays. When a country results in converting transport aircraft into improvised bomber's there's a need for better procurement partners. The Su-25 they got must have been a relief for them. Should iraq continue with usa equipment? (Unless it's gifted lol)

    Iraq should continue to buy a mix of things depending on value and quality.

    So for example US sourced light attack helos are great. Similarly the US sourced Synthetic Aperture Radar Equipped KingAir-350I planes are great.

    On the other hand Iraq should continue getting better and more UCAVs from China

    Perhaps purchase 1 squadron (18) of twin engined fighters from Russia (SU-30SM ?)

    And finally purchase one squadron (18 jets) of 5th Generation Chinese fighters (Shenyang J-31)

    In addition Iraq should prioritise the purchase of 5 regiments of S-400 from Russia.

    They should co-produce some ATGW (including chinese versions of SPIKE NLOS) for use on a multitude of ground vehicles.

    Also co-produce lots of small chinese PGMs for use on a variety of aircraft from SU-25 to L-159 to T-50IQ.


    In my "dream scenario" for the Iraqi air force 2025 it would be :

    22x SU-25 (upgraded to SM)
    12x L-159
    24x T-50IQ
    34x F-16IQ

    18x SU-30SM
    18x J-31

    20x King Air ISR planes
    6x Ericsson Erieye AEW
    30x CH-5 UCAVs

    affordable, multi-variant and giving just enough force to keep neighbours at bay and keep long borders secure and under constant observation.
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:20 am

    I remember reading an article sometime back about a deal for dzhigit, bmp-3 and mig-35. Pictures on here provided confirmation of bmp-3 but any further word on the mig-35 deal
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    George1

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  George1 on Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:31 am

    The Iraqi media reported on the purchase of 50 Belarusian ATGM "Shershen". The contract is concluded with CJSC ZNIP (Minsk, Smolenskaya str., 15a), which is the only authorized developer and manufacturer of anti-tank guided missile systems on the territory of the Republic of Belarus.



    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3284518.html
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    George1

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:57 am

    The first shipment of BMP-3 was delivered to Iraq

    The photographs from Iraq show that the first batch of infantry fighting vehicles BMP-3 of Russian production for the land forces of Iraq was finally delivered to this country.



    On the bmpd side, we point out that the contract for Iraq's acquisition of BMP-3 was signed as early as 2014, but its implementation was delayed due to various problems. According to some sources, up to 500 BMP-3 should be delivered to Iraq. Previously, erroneous reports of Iraq getting the first shipment of infantry fighting vehicles appeared in February 2018.



    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3322045.html

    par far

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  par far on Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:24 am

    "Iraqi protesters break into Russian Lukoil-managed facility, briefly take employees hostage."

    We all know these CIA payed stooges.

    https://www.rt.com/news/437925-iraq-protests-oil-russia/

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    George1

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  George1 on Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:09 pm

    Mi-28NE and Mi-35M attack helicopters in Iraqi Army Aviation

























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    d_taddei2

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  d_taddei2 on Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:08 pm

    There was a rumour a few years back about getting smerch I presume it never happened. polonez MLRS I think would be a good choice as would bmpt. and I am actually surprised that the bmpt hasn't been purchased already.

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