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    Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

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    OminousSpudd
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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:50 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:no money... and Russia is not giving credit (their economic situation doesn't allow them either). This leaves Iraq with getting US and Chinese credit  for armaments.

    That's quite foolish of Russia, they have the cash for it.
    They just don't spend them on Iraq, which will come back to bite them in the long-term, as Syria with allienated or pro-US Iraq is a non-starter.
    Iraq does not feel alienated by Russia. The intel-sharing Russia set up with them during the beginning of the Syria ops was proof of this (much to the chagrin of Uncle Sam). Besides, Russia was the one that jumped in and supplied the hardware when the US was unwilling to do so, if Iraq is in a desperate position again, Russia will help.

    Be that as it may, money talks. Right now Iraq is receiving its most sophisticated fighter jets from USA, not Russia. Iraq also cancelled or did not proceed with major contracts with Russia a few months ago. Iirc it was about MiGs and T-90s, I could be wrong here. US offers FMS packages, if Russia can't compete with that, they will be kicked out of Iraq as fast as they got invited.
    I wouldn't be so sure... Those F-16s were an ongoing huge debacle, and were not there when Iraq needed them most. This is interesting considering the Maliki government or any Iraqi government really are only there because the US wants them there. The Su-25s, Mi-35s, Mi-28s, made a huge difference, and Iraq got them as soon as they turned to Russia for them, but simply supplying Iraq on credit is not good business when considering Iraq's future is... unpredictable at best. Remember how much the US huffed and puffed when Iraq acquired those toys? I can only imagine the external pressure they must be under to forget Russia altogether and buy made in USA... Take this into consideration when they cancel or forego Russian offers for more expensive American gear.

    One must always take into consideration that one power is gaining, the other is waning. Only the desperately blind refuse this these days, and it would seem Iraq is not as blind as the US would like.

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  zarib on Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:55 pm

    OminousSpudd wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:no money... and Russia is not giving credit (their economic situation doesn't allow them either). This leaves Iraq with getting US and Chinese credit  for armaments.

    That's quite foolish of Russia, they have the cash for it.
    They just don't spend them on Iraq, which will come back to bite them in the long-term, as Syria with allienated or pro-US Iraq is a non-starter.
    Iraq does not feel alienated by Russia. The intel-sharing Russia set up with them during the beginning of the Syria ops was proof of this (much to the chagrin of Uncle Sam). Besides, Russia was the one that jumped in and supplied the hardware when the US was unwilling to do so, if Iraq is in a desperate position again, Russia will help.

    Be that as it may, money talks. Right now Iraq is receiving its most sophisticated fighter jets from USA, not Russia. Iraq also cancelled or did not proceed with major contracts with Russia a few months ago. Iirc it was about MiGs and T-90s, I could be wrong here. US offers FMS packages, if Russia can't compete with that, they will be kicked out of Iraq as fast as they got invited.
    I wouldn't be so sure... Those F-16s were an ongoing huge debacle, and were not there when Iraq needed them most. This is interesting considering the Maliki government or any Iraqi government really are only there because the US wants them there. The Su-25s, Mi-35s, Mi-28s, made a huge difference, and Iraq got them as soon as they turned to Russia for them, but simply supplying Iraq on credit is not good business when considering Iraq's future is... unpredictable at best. Remember how much the US huffed and puffed when Iraq acquired those toys? I can only imagine the external pressure they must be under to forget Russia altogether and buy made in USA... Take this into consideration when they cancel or forego Russian offers for more expensive American gear.

    One must always take into consideration that one power is gaining, the other is waning. Only the desperately blind refuse this these days, and it would seem Iraq is not as blind as the US would like.

    While the USA undoubtedly applies pressure on Iraq to buy only American military gear, I'm not sure it is really the driving factor behind Iraq cancelling some of the deals with Russia. Money is the biggest problem now, they simply cannot fund some of these deals anymore. They also had to cancel several purchases and offers from the USA, including another 140 M1A1s, Strykers, Apache helicopters, and Bradley tanks. The USA gave them a loan to fund some of the other purchases as mentioned by Sheytan. I think Iraq is simply looking for someone to offer them a good deal at this point, and whether it is Russia, China, USA, or someone else, they will buy from them.

    They're also getting more interested in technology transfer deals. There is news of them securing deals to manufacture Fateh 110 missiles, Cherchen ATGMs, T-72 upgrade program, and others.

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:45 pm

    yea. its purely about the money (or lack of) now. Iraq is pretty much "non aligned" as of today... so they host both NATO and US forces and commands... alongside Russian Advisors, Intel Sharing office and Iranian IRGC advisors... meanwhile there's a whole team of Chinese officers operating out of Kut Air Base... and a few miles down the road Koreans are building a new Airbase at Suwayra. The US has accepted  the "multi-polar" relations in Iraq, and its also a way of keeping communications channels open (the Russian/Iranian/Syrian/Iraqi intel office is only a couple of kilometers from the US Embassy!).

    But the issue with the Russian weapons orders that have been "put on hold" is purely based on Iraq's lack of credit worthiness from a Russian perspective. Whilst the Chinese and Americans are willing to throw a few billion here and there to further their interests. Thing is Russians do control a few oil fields in Iraq (not as many as the chinese of course)... so I would have thought they could come to an agreeable deal on credit for weapons... but sadly they haven't yet as far as we know Sad

    Lets see what happens in 2017... things can turn quickly.


    PS Zarib, Iraq didn't cancel any of those above mentioned items from the US (apaches, additional 175 abrams, 220 bradleys, 24 AT6C etc...). Iraq NEVER ordered them in the first place and only asked for an offer, for comparison with other offers... and for example the apache lost in competition against the Mi28Ne, the M1A1SA lost against the T90S, the M2A2 Bradley lost against the BMP-3 and as far as I know the AT-6C lost against the CH-4 UCAV.

    Go ahead and search... you won't find a single FMS contract for any of the above items only a DSCA offer.

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:53 pm

    medo wrote:
    China could offer J-11B and J-16, but I don*t think Russia will allow China to sell their Flankers.

    Yea I'm pretty sure that licencing restrictions means that China cannot export their locally made flanker variants... which is why we see them trying to sell JF-17 and J10As...
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    miketheterrible
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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:23 am

    A while ago, US froze Iraqi money in US banks of something around $75B or less that was to be used to purchase Russian gear. After negotiations, US unfroze the accounts but Iraq decided not to buy Russian gear and purchased American. Specifically continued on the F-16 deal when they were threatening to cancel it (Iraq) in the first place. Iraq may not have the money. But to make matters worst, the US is constantly pressuring Iraq to not turn to Russia for its equipment.
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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:23 am

    sheytanelkebir wrote:yea. its purely about the money (or lack of) now. Iraq is pretty much "non aligned" as of today... so they host both NATO and US forces and commands... alongside Russian Advisors, Intel Sharing office and Iranian IRGC advisors... meanwhile there's a whole team of Chinese officers operating out of Kut Air Base... and a few miles down the road Koreans are building a new Airbase at Suwayra. The US has accepted  the "multi-polar" relations in Iraq, and its also a way of keeping communications channels open (the Russian/Iranian/Syrian/Iraqi intel office is only a couple of kilometers from the US Embassy!).

    But the issue with the Russian weapons orders that have been "put on hold" is purely based on Iraq's lack of credit worthiness from a Russian perspective. Whilst the Chinese and Americans are willing to throw a few billion here and there to further their interests. Thing is Russians do control a few oil fields in Iraq (not as many as the chinese of course)... so I would have thought they could come to an agreeable deal on credit for weapons... but sadly they haven't yet as far as we know Sad

    Lets see what happens in 2017... things can turn quickly.


    PS Zarib, Iraq didn't cancel any of those above mentioned items from the US (apaches, additional 175 abrams, 220 bradleys, 24 AT6C etc...). Iraq NEVER ordered them in the first place and only asked for an offer, for comparison with other offers... and for example the apache lost in competition against the Mi28Ne, the M1A1SA lost against the T90S, the M2A2 Bradley lost against the BMP-3 and as far as I know the AT-6C lost against the CH-4 UCAV.

    Go ahead and search... you won't find a single FMS contract for any of the above items only a DSCA offer.

    Nice one thanks. From the look of it USA and PRC are willing to loan more of their cash than Russian. Which is my point, they play the risky game but will end up with more returns if it all works out for them.

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:42 am

    miketheterrible wrote:A while ago, US froze Iraqi money in US banks of something around $75B or less that was to be used to purchase Russian gear.  After negotiations, US unfroze the accounts but Iraq decided not to buy Russian gear and purchased American.  Specifically continued on the F-16 deal when they were threatening to cancel it (Iraq) in the first place.  Iraq may not have the money.  But to make matters worst, the US is constantly pressuring Iraq to not turn to Russia for its equipment.

    yea... the money in the Federal Reserve bank of New York (fluctuates between $70-$100Bn) is there as a guarantee for many loans and lines of credit and investment programmes by foreign firms... its basically cash that is deposited by Iraq as some sort of guarantee against default. So that money acts as an insurance guarantee for loads of things from a 100,000 housing unit city being built by a Korean contractor (Basmayah), to Chinese and French railways and Boeing aircraft etc... Its not cash that Iraqis can simply "withdraw" and pay for stuff with.
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    OminousSpudd
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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:12 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    sheytanelkebir wrote:yea. its purely about the money (or lack of) now. Iraq is pretty much "non aligned" as of today... so they host both NATO and US forces and commands... alongside Russian Advisors, Intel Sharing office and Iranian IRGC advisors... meanwhile there's a whole team of Chinese officers operating out of Kut Air Base... and a few miles down the road Koreans are building a new Airbase at Suwayra. The US has accepted  the "multi-polar" relations in Iraq, and its also a way of keeping communications channels open (the Russian/Iranian/Syrian/Iraqi intel office is only a couple of kilometers from the US Embassy!).

    But the issue with the Russian weapons orders that have been "put on hold" is purely based on Iraq's lack of credit worthiness from a Russian perspective. Whilst the Chinese and Americans are willing to throw a few billion here and there to further their interests. Thing is Russians do control a few oil fields in Iraq (not as many as the chinese of course)... so I would have thought they could come to an agreeable deal on credit for weapons... but sadly they haven't yet as far as we know Sad

    Lets see what happens in 2017... things can turn quickly.


    PS Zarib, Iraq didn't cancel any of those above mentioned items from the US (apaches, additional 175 abrams, 220 bradleys, 24 AT6C etc...). Iraq NEVER ordered them in the first place and only asked for an offer, for comparison with other offers... and for example the apache lost in competition against the Mi28Ne, the M1A1SA lost against the T90S, the M2A2 Bradley lost against the BMP-3 and as far as I know the AT-6C lost against the CH-4 UCAV.

    Go ahead and search... you won't find a single FMS contract for any of the above items only a DSCA offer.

    Nice one thanks. From the look of it USA and PRC are willing to loan more of their cash than Russian. Which is my point, they play the risky game but will end up with more returns if it all works out for them.
    I highly doubt the US will end up with anymore "returns" than they already have from Iraq... Extortion generally leaves a sour taste in a customer's mouth. China at a guess, is happy to practically give away gear, which is pretty standard practice especially if we look at their Africa Investment projects, but that's because they have the raw economic output to do so (and returns as mentioned should in theory balance out), the US may not be happy with this, but there's no way to freeze Iraq's ability to purchase if they're essentially being gifted hardware. Like Mike mentioned, the US actively attempted to derail Iraq-Russia deals multiple times, and not through good business practice.
    The US is no charity, and the advancement of ISIS was beneficial in a geopolitical sense for many (well documented) reasons, they were perfectly happy to bottleneck Iraq's ability to counter this "new" resurgent insurgency.

    So far the US has achieved one thing in Iraq, and I'm pretty sure they want to stick to that achievement: instability. The returns for this "investment" are that no independent Iraqi state goes selling oil in a different currency.

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    airstrike
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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  airstrike on Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:01 pm

    Iraq considering $2.5 billion arms deal with China

    http://defense-watch.com/2016/11/28/iraq-considering-2-5-billion-arms-contract-china/
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    George1
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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:19 am

    The Pentagon ordered a US defense company to produce 150 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled (HMMW) vehicles for Iraqi forces.

    WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — A US contractor received a more than $28 million Army foreign military sales contract to provide 150 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled (HMMW) vehicles for the government of Iraq, the Department of Defense said in a press release.

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201703291052064268-us-army-iraq-humvee/


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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  JohninMK on Tue May 23, 2017 11:12 pm

    Anyone identify the aircraft directly behind these officers, not the DH-6 in the background, photo taken a couple of weeks ago at al Muthana?

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    TheArmenian
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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed May 24, 2017 12:06 am

    JohninMK wrote:Anyone identify the aircraft directly behind these officers, not the DH-6 in the background, photo taken a couple of weeks ago at al Muthana?


    Sukhoi Su-25

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  JohninMK on Wed May 24, 2017 12:37 am

    TheArmenian wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Anyone identify the aircraft directly behind these officers, not the DH-6 in the background, photo taken a couple of weeks ago at al Muthana?

    Sukhoi Su-25
    Thanks.
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    George1
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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  George1 on Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:55 am

    Serbian training aircraft UTVA Lasta-95N in the Air Force of Iraq





    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2677469.html


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