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    Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Viktor on Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:31 am

    TR1 wrote:Well, have you seen any videos of Iraqi gov troops executing, whipping and doing the sort of stuff to surrendering fighters?

    Personally I have not.

    I have and ISIS is doing what has been doing in Syria from day one. Well here is a map of territories held by ISIS



    Situation is realy bad and Iraq army seems not to be able to regain lost ground. They have been recruting EVERYONE (suni, shia and all) who want to join in the fight against terrorists.

    They are providing arms and money to tribes all around country.

    provicens of Iraq (Anbar province is basically under ISIS control throughout which Saudi Arabia is pouring in terrorist and weapons meant for Syria and Iraq)



    Iraq PM has repeatedly accused Saudi Arabia of supporting terrorist and providing them with money and logistic/training/equipment etc (and by it indirectly USA).

    ISIS terrorist caught acknowledged that they have been trained and equiped by Saudi Army and send there to do their thing.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:59 am

    TR1 wrote:Well, have you seen any videos of Iraqi gov troops executing, whipping and doing the sort of stuff to surrendering fighters?

    Personally I have not.

    I haven't seen videos but I've seen pictures of the same Jihadists live and captured, followed by pictures of the same Jihadis dead with a bullet hole in their heads. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

    Either way though the Iraqis have been summarily executing each ISIS member they have come across, or so it's said. And I think the process was not too dissimilar to what we saw here.

    I'm not passing judgement, believe me. Probably ISIS started this whole thing in the first place.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:58 pm

    yes. since the big prison breakout (orchestrated with the assistance of some prison guards) in abu ghraib last year, it has been the "unofficial" policy by the army not to take prisoners of known terrorists. "suspects" are still captured though. The reasons are:
    -Terrorists have been butchering Iraqi soldiers since 2004 without mercy.
    -The prison system is corrupt and many terrorists have been in and out of prison several times.

    So now, finally, the "gloves are off" at least against captured terrorists... after 10 years of these terrorists butchering all Iraqi prisoners, they are being treated likewise.

    Still the above "map" of areas "held" by Daesh is simply not true. The only area they hold is falluja and some surrounding farms. It has not been stormed so as not to inflame the sunni-arab populace any further.

    And the military has not setup any filtration camps to vet the people coming out of Falluja!!! so as not inflame "feelings" of oppression amongst the population there (which openly supports al qaida!).

    Still the terrorists continue carrying out attacks all over areas with a large sunni-arab population (places where they can shelter) and the Kurdistan area is still effectively a "safe haven" for terrorists for R&R.

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:12 am

    in a very terse statement last week the commander of the airforce stated the following:

    "WE are building up our fighter jet fleet with the F16which will roll out in June this year and arrive from July, the Korean Jets which will arrive in less than two years, we also have a contract for fighter jets with another world class supplier and are negotiating for more fighters from another supplier".

    That same week a high level CATIC rep, Lockheed Martin rep were in baghdad... and an Iraqi air force delegation was in Czech Republic to enquire about urgent supplies of 12 stored L159A aircraft.

    So from the above statements I can deduce:

    F16 fighter (arriving in July)
    T50IQ (FA50, arriving from early 2016)
    ANOTHER FIGHTER JET (arriving this year maybe?)
    JF17 or L159 (currently being negotiated).

    we don't know what that "other fighter jet" is.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Viktor on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:08 pm

    T-5000 orsis in Iraq

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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:19 pm

    Sheytan.
    Thanks for your updates on the Iraqi situation and arms orders.
    Looks like your MoD ordered anything that they could get their hands on with delivery promptness being the top priority.

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:01 pm

    I think its easy to understate how desperate the military situation is in Iraq right now. They're even willing to pay top money for mothballed L159s from Czech.

    Most of their M1A1SA tanks are in the depot due to maintenance issues (60+ tanks out of 140 total!) and the ones "in the field" don't have HE shells because the US trickle supplies the Iraqis by C5 galaxies with even basic munitions and parts.

    Hellfire missiles are used up as soon as they arrive, and they have nothing heavier to use in a "battlespace" which is about 200,000km2 ... whilst having an air force with a grand total of 3x "Combat Caravans" for supporting the Iraqi Army in the field (carrying 2x hellfires each).

    I believe that Iraqis won't be buying the 175 Abrams that they were supposed to get this year, nor the 250 M2A2 Bradleys... and I suspect the 50x Strykers won't be bought either.

    Put that on top of the cancelled BTR4 order... and you see a massive gap in capability in the army.... hell even their fleet of 10,000 uparmoured HUMVEES are breaking down regularly since most are over 15 years old by now (they were supplied free by the US as second hand vehicles) and have done more than 100,000km+ each in a bad environment and constant field use.
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    collegeboy16

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  collegeboy16 on Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:34 pm

    havent done research, but afair abrams dont have any HE shells- at least murican ones. the euros do tho.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:24 pm

    I believe they are the M1028 / M908 rounds
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    GarryB

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    Sheytan. thanks

    Post  GarryB on Thu May 01, 2014 5:14 am

    Put that on top of the cancelled BTR4 order... and you see a massive gap in capability in the army.... hell even their fleet of 10,000 uparmoured HUMVEES are breaking down regularly since most are over 15 years old by now (they were supplied free by the US as second hand vehicles) and have done more than 100,000km+ each in a bad environment and constant field use.

    I guess the production plants that made T-72s are out of service now.

    Personally I would love to see the Burlak T-72 upgrade being applied and put into service.

    The Russians decided bustle storage of ammo is too vulnerable to enemy fire, but I think 31 rounds in a turret bustle autoloader all ready to fire, plus 22 more rounds in the underfloor armoured autoloader would be ideal... 53 rounds ready to fire with no ammo exposed in the troop compartment gives the best of both worlds in terms of ready to use ammo and crew protection.

    Would be fairly straight forward to manufacture too.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu May 01, 2014 11:56 am

    Iraq used to have several armour factories to make T72, BTR60PB and MTLB.
    after 2003 the US methodically destroyed these plants, the machinery and laid off all the workers.

    Now in early 2014 the former arms factories that were disbanded by the US (or moved under the ministry of industry), have changed ownership and now belong to the Ministry of Defence. They have rehired as many of the workers as they could and started a recruitment drive for new graduates. But essentially they are starting now from scratch and none of the old machinery are available (the US vandalised them and then sold them as "scrap metal" already more than 10 years ago).

    a couple of years ago I saw an increase in UAZ 469 and 452s in use by the infantry units (especially the 17th div around baghdad) because the HUMVEES were basically all worn out and they were too wide to drive on the thousands of kilometers of canal-side dirt tracks that criss cross the Iraqi countryside.
    see below:



    The Iraqis do desperately need to replace their HUMVEES with a vehicle which narrower and more reliable.
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    Hannibal Barca

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu May 01, 2014 12:45 pm

    Thank you sir. This was a very useful part of intelligence!

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Thu May 01, 2014 1:17 pm

    the colour schemes.




    and
    http://www.uaz.ru/eng/about/news/-id=954.htm

    a89

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  a89 on Thu May 01, 2014 4:51 pm

    Thank you sheytanelkebir, your messages are very interesting. Couple of questions:

    - Do you have an estimate on how many T-90 the government has acquired?
    - What is going to happen with Ukrainian contract? any candidates to replace BTR-4?

    mutantsushi

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  mutantsushi on Fri May 02, 2014 4:05 am

    Since this seems to be the most active thread on Iraq,
    I had a question for Sheytan who seems most well informed there...

    Could you give a summary of the political situation there, apart from the armed conflict with jihadis?
    I recall 1-2 years ago Muqtada al Sadr announced he was withdrawing from politics,
    having up to that point provided some political resistance to Maliki from the Shia side,
    sympathisizing with Sunni and Kurds to some extent, what has happened to him?,
    and what does the political situation there look like otherwise?
    I was aware of the reorganization of the northern provinces to have "Assyrian" regions, etc,
    but I'm sure you could fill in the details alot more...
    General economic developments would also be interesting, is there much cooperative development with Iran for instance?

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri May 02, 2014 11:37 am

    a89 wrote:Thank you sheytanelkebir, your messages are very interesting. Couple of questions:

    - Do you have an estimate on how many T-90 the government has acquired?

    no idea. But the Army has already decided to stand up 3x Armoured and 5x Mechanised divisions in addition to 5 infantry and 5 light infantry / ISOF.

    The armoured divisions need about 300 MBTs each (900MBTs total)
    The mechanised divisions need about 120 MBTs each (600 MBTs total)
    The "infantry" divisions need about 56 MBTs each (270 MBTs total)

    That is a total requirement of about 1800 MBTs. Of which they have about 300 MBTs right now.

    So they are looking to buy about 1500 MBTs over the next 5-6 years, and slowly passing down the "older" MBTs from the armour divisions to Mech and then to Infantry as newer tanks enter service.

    Iraq has a "dual supply" policy for armaments. So that means not ALL tanks will be brought from one source. Instead each division will be bought in "batches". So as an example the M1A1SA tanks (140+6+175) was bought for the 9th Armoured div. But then they stopped buying before completing the order... so they actually only have 146.

    Similarly the 420 BTR4s were bought for the 5th Mechanised Division as its wheeled IFV... but once again the purchase was cancelled due to quality problems.

    Thus expect the T90 and BMP3s to be purchased in "unit sized" batches. i.e. either half or a full divisions worth in every order. (150 or 300 at a time).

    - What is going to happen with Ukrainian contract? any candidates to replace BTR-4?

    It has been cancelled.
    So far we don't know what has been chosen to replace the BTR4. Similarly the Army does need a tracked IFV for the armoured divisions, and it seems that the BMP3 has been chosen. A previous "DSCA notification" from last year for 175 Abrams and 200 Bradleys seems to have not been taken up by the Iraqi side as of yet! surprisingly. That can only indicate that quantities from Russia will be increased.


    so in addendum the army is in a very difficult position now. they have the following problems:
    -The HUMVEES are very tired (they need 10,000 uparmoured jeeps to replace them!)
    -They need 1500 tanks and are not happy with the Gas Turbines and other shortcomings on ABRAMS
    -They seem to have also not taken up the offers for 250 Bradleys and 50 Strykers.
    -They cancelled the BTR4s for the Mechanised Divisions... so another glaring gap there
    -They need an "upgrade package" for their 1000 M113s to improve armour and armaments.
    -And still they have not increased the number of M198 or M109A5s artillery that they have (only 180 of them are available).

    A massive potential market there... especially considering the constant security problems and surrounding threats.


    Last edited by sheytanelkebir on Fri May 02, 2014 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri May 02, 2014 11:41 am

    mutantsushi wrote:Since this seems to be the most active thread on Iraq,
    I had a question for Sheytan who seems most well informed there...

    Could you give a summary of the political situation there, apart from the armed conflict with jihadis?
    I recall 1-2 years ago Muqtada al Sadr announced he was withdrawing from politics,
    having up to that point provided some political resistance to Maliki from the Shia side,
    sympathisizing with Sunni and Kurds to some extent, what has happened to him?,
    and what does the political situation there look like otherwise?
    I was aware of the reorganization of the northern provinces to have "Assyrian" regions, etc,
    but I'm sure you could fill in the details alot more...
    General economic developments would also be interesting, is there much cooperative development with Iran for instance?

    I recommend reading the Iraqi subforum on skyscrapercity.
    http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2427

    if you join skyscrapercity, you can view the various politics and anti-terror operations threads on this subforum there. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2763
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri May 02, 2014 1:26 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:
    a89 wrote:Thank you sheytanelkebir, your messages are very interesting. Couple of questions:

    - Do you have an estimate on how many T-90 the government has acquired?

    no idea. But the Army has already decided to stand up 3x Armoured and 5x Mechanised divisions in addition to 5 infantry and 5 light infantry / ISOF.

    The armoured divisions need about 300 MBTs each (900MBTs total)
    The mechanised divisions need about 120 MBTs each (600 MBTs total)
    The "infantry" divisions need about 56 MBTs each (270 MBTs total)

    That is a total requirement of about 1800 MBTs. Of which they have about 300 MBTs right now.

    So they are looking to buy about 1500 MBTs over the next 5-6 years, and slowly passing down the "older" MBTs from the armour divisions to Mech and then to Infantry as newer tanks enter service.

    Iraq has a "dual supply" policy for armaments. So that means not ALL tanks will be brought from one source. Instead each division will be bought in "batches". So as an example the M1A1SA tanks (140+6+175) was bought for the 9th Armoured div. But then they stopped buying before completing the order... so they actually only have 146.

    Similarly the 420 BTR4s were bought for the 5th Mechanised Division as its wheeled IFV... but once again the purchase was cancelled due to quality problems.

    Thus expect the T90 and BMP3s to be purchased in "unit sized" batches. i.e. either half or a full divisions worth in every order. (150 or 300 at a time).

    - What is going to happen with Ukrainian contract? any candidates to replace BTR-4?

    It has been cancelled.
    So far we don't know what has been chosen to replace the BTR4. Similarly the Army does need a tracked IFV for the armoured divisions, and it seems that the BMP3 has been chosen. A previous "DSCA notification" from last year for 175 Abrams and 200 Bradleys seems to have not been taken up by the Iraqi side as of yet! surprisingly. That can only indicate that quantities from Russia will be increased.


    so in addendum the army is in a very difficult position now. they have the following problems:
    -The HUMVEES are very tired (they need 10,000 uparmoured jeeps to replace them!)
    -They need 1500 tanks and are not happy with the Gas Turbines and other shortcomings on ABRAMS
    -They seem to have also not taken up the offers for 250 Bradleys and 50 Strykers.
    -They cancelled the BTR4s for the Mechanised Divisions... so another glaring gap there
    -They need an "upgrade package" for their 1000 M113s to improve armour and armaments.
    -And still they have not increased the number of M198 or M109A5s artillery that they have (only 180 of them are available).

    A massive potential market there... especially considering the constant security problems and surrounding threats.

    Thanks for the info.
    Does the Iraqi government have enough budget to cover the armed forces requirements? I know Iraq has a lot of oil, but how much is of it is going into the governments coffers? I think a good chunk of the oil is in Kurdish areas. Would be pleased to hear your insight on this.

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Fri May 02, 2014 1:32 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:

    Thanks for the info.
    Does the Iraqi government have enough budget to cover the armed forces requirements? I know Iraq has a lot of oil, but how much is of it is going into the governments coffers? I think a good chunk of the oil is in Kurdish areas. Would be pleased to hear your insight on this.

    About 85%-90% of the oil "reserves" are in Arab Iraq
    About 95% of the "revenue" is generated in Arab Iraq

    The kurdish region is "wealthier" because it takes 12% of Arab Iraq's revenue and doesn't share its own revenues with Iraq (no reciprocity). That's why the Kurdish region refuses to leave Iraq despite "talking the talk" all the time.

    The MOD budget is a problem though, as its taking on a lot of new staff for the new divisions as well as the payroll for all the military industry that have been attached to the MOD. With payroll being the single biggest item on the MOD's spend. in addition the MOD is building its infrastructure from scratch including new Division HQs, transport command, national and regional depots and tens of thousands of housing units for MOD staff. All that bites into the budget for weapons purchases... To top that off the "service and maintenance" contracts for the US weapons are horrendously overpriced... costing far more than the weapons themselves which is why the Iraqis capped their purchase of F16, C130J, M1A1SA and pretty much everything else... (don't know about the Ah64Es though).

    Conversely the MOD has by a stroke of luck inherited a lot of prime land areas in Central Baghdad and other cities that its selling off to increase its income. Those lands are worth $1000-$3000 / m2 and they have millions of m2 which are being "redeveloped" with housing estates increasing revenue for the MOD in addition to their allocated budget and "supplementary budget".
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    GarryB

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 03, 2014 12:49 pm

    The fact that they are trying to reform those production facilities sounds promising... perhaps local production of Tigr-Ms, or one of the many other light vehicles the Russians are developing could be a solution... produced in Iraq... and perhaps a service centre could be set up and the vehicles could be sold to other countries in the region... which would be good business for Iraq as well.

    sheytanelkebir

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Tue May 06, 2014 11:34 am

    tigr/wolf/nimr type vehicles are "ok" ... but don't solve the main issues associated with the HUMVEE:

    its too wide to be used in the Iraqi countryside / canalside levees. There are more canals than roads in Iraq and navigating in the countryside will inevitably mean using the levees for driving.

    The larger vehicles are OK in the open desert areas, but then again, you may as well use proper MRAPs there with better protection.

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  sheytanelkebir on Wed May 21, 2014 10:36 am

    an inside source from the MOD posted on the iraqimilitary forum that the frontal turret armour of an Iraqi M1A1SA Abrams was pierced by a KORNET missile and led to the total destruction of the inside of the turret.

    He didn't mention if this was a "combat" situation or "internal testing" by the Iraqi Army using its own KORNETs.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed May 21, 2014 7:39 pm

    sheytanelkebir wrote:an inside source from the MOD posted on the iraqimilitary forum that the frontal turret armour of an Iraqi M1A1SA Abrams was pierced by a KORNET missile and led to the total destruction of the inside of the turret.

    He didn't mention if this was a "combat" situation or "internal testing" by the Iraqi Army using its own KORNETs.

    Can you post a link? Thanks in advance!
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    Zivo

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Zivo on Wed May 21, 2014 8:12 pm

    Related to this loss?









    I suspected the Kornet punched a hole through the front turret armor. You can see on the last image the bin and smoke launchers are intact, so the missile didn't enter through the side. However, it could have hit the section just in front of the launchers, the armor isn't as thick there.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Iraqi Armed Forces: Discussion and News

    Post  Werewolf on Thu May 22, 2014 6:34 am

    Kornet will penetrate M1 and M1A1SA/HEL just as easily infront, M1 and M1A1 have not more armor at turret front arc than T-72B or T-80.

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