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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

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    flamming_python
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:48 pm

    Khepesh wrote:It has been obvious for a while, but in clear. The troll, whether one or two individuals, is using normal differences of opinion between real Donbass supporters in order to create divisions between posters and stifle debate as posters may not say what they want to say for fear of inadvertantly giving ammunition to this troll, who now drags me into this by name. IMO, trolling to create divisions within a forum should be met not with ignore, but a ban, as this type of activity is an attack on the forum itself.

    I agree, throw this loser out of here

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Regular on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:01 pm

    What division? Only people who responds to their messages are their alter egos. No one gives a shit about their rambling. Well at least I don't. Guy is nuts. and deffo it's not monarchist as some of Yous were sayin. I bet it's some pro Ukr troll

    Ghoster
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Ghoster on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:15 pm

    Khepesh wrote:It has been obvious for a while, but in clear. The troll, whether one or two individuals, is using normal differences of opinion between real Donbass supporters in order to create divisions between posters and stifle debate as posters may not say what they want to say for fear of inadvertantly giving ammunition to this troll, who now drags me into this by name. IMO, trolling to create divisions within a forum should be met not with ignore, but a ban, as this type of activity is an attack on the forum itself.
    It's kind of ridiculous to accuse someone of being the same person just because they don't share the same opinion everyone else seems to. More so to accuse someone of being a troll, because you can't accept that someone else might have a genuinely different opinion.

    You know, it's ironic to see the same people who were persecuted on MPnet for "trolling" and "flamebaiting" now persecuting others. Suspect

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:16 pm

    Well, that got rid of the old, simple to make, work in progress, now lets see how they do on the complicated stuff. Anyway, didn't someone say that the got the numbers out the door up but not all of it worked for long.

    Since January Ukrainian armorers have built 36 times more weapons than they did during the same period of last year, the country’s top arms maker announced on Wednesday. “Our biggest achievement this year is that Ukraine is once again able to turn out good weapons… Our main priority now is a switch to the production of high precision weapons putting on stream the very latest designs,” Ukroboronprom director Roman Romanov said, adding that nearly 4,000n units of new and upgraded weapons had been supplied to the country’s military over the past year. Of these 105 were tanks and armored vehicles, almost 3,000 rockets, 605 missile and artillery systems an 459 radio communication, electronic jamming and navigation units.

    However, revived after being virtually mothballed since the 1992 Soviet breakup, Ukroboronprom’s enterprises are now facing a acute shortage of specialists. Most of the experienced staff quit their dying enterprises back in the 1990 and have since lost their skills. The plants, which managed to survive the years of neglect and disrepair, are manned by pensioners or those who are about to retire due to old age.

    Ukroboronprom is a state-owned conglomerate of approximately 130 defense and engineering organizations specializing in the development, production and sale of arms and other military gear. It is also in charge of Ukraine’s military-industrial complex


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150708/1024376971.html#ixzz3fJTT7Io3

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Khepesh on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:25 pm

    Ghoster wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:It has been obvious for a while, but in clear. The troll, whether one or two individuals, is using normal differences of opinion between real Donbass supporters in order to create divisions between posters and stifle debate as posters may not say what they want to say for fear of inadvertantly giving ammunition to this troll, who now drags me into this by name. IMO, trolling to create divisions within a forum should be met not with ignore, but a ban, as this type of activity is an attack on the forum itself.
    It's kind of ridiculous to accuse someone of being the same person just because they don't share the same opinion everyone else seems to. More so to accuse someone of being a troll, because you can't accept that someone else might have a genuinely different opinion.

    You know, it's ironic to see the same people who were persecuted on MPnet for "trolling" and "flamebaiting" now persecuting others. Suspect
    You are way off the mark. I have never responded to any post made by them, and never, until within the last hour when one of them tried to drag me in, even mentioned them. Do you not see that they pretend to be dissafected Donbass supporters? do you not see that they use the posts of some of us with a difference of opinion in order to create division and to stifle debate? MP net was the playground of these scum, you want this to be as well....

    Karl Haushofer
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:25 pm

    I am certainly not the same person as Flagship or Monarchist. All of us live in different countries and the mods can check the IP addresses too.

    Meanwhile, Russia denied an asylum request for a Latvian citizen named Vyacheslav Vysotsky: http://russia-insider.com/en/russia-may-deport-donbass-volunteer-native-latvia-where-he-faces-10-years-prison/ri8594

    Vysotsky, an ethnic Russian, fought for the Lugansk People's Republic and for this he faces a 10 year prison sentence in Latvia. Latvia has asked Russia to deport him. Russia's refusal to grant him an asylum may be a sign of another "gesture of good will" coming.

    Meanwhile, Finland granted an asylum for a Russian gay couple last week who said they were persecuted in Russia.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Regular on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:31 pm

    Well maybe Russian officials think he is dangerous. Russia before this war had strick regulations for their own citizens participating in armed conflicts abroad.
    He can still stay in Russia I doubt he will be extradicted.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:32 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    Ghoster wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:It has been obvious for a while, but in clear. The troll, whether one or two individuals, is using normal differences of opinion between real Donbass supporters in order to create divisions between posters and stifle debate as posters may not say what they want to say for fear of inadvertantly giving ammunition to this troll, who now drags me into this by name. IMO, trolling to create divisions within a forum should be met not with ignore, but a ban, as this type of activity is an attack on the forum itself.
    It's kind of ridiculous to accuse someone of being the same person just because they don't share the same opinion everyone else seems to. More so to accuse someone of being a troll, because you can't accept that someone else might have a genuinely different opinion.

    You know, it's ironic to see the same people who were persecuted on MPnet for "trolling" and "flamebaiting" now persecuting others. Suspect
    You are way off the mark. I have never responded to any post made by them, and never, until within the last hour when one of them tried to drag me in, even mentioned them. Do you not see that they pretend to be dissafected Donbass supporters? do you not see that they use the posts of some of us with a difference of opinion in order to create division and to stifle debate? MP net was the playground of these scum, you want this to be as well....
    I was in MP.net too (with a different name) and I was banned from there for being too pro-Russian.

    This past year changed me a lot. I used to root for the Novorossiyans a year ago with all my heart. Now I just don't care anymore and their constant capitulations bring me more ironic laughter than sadness. Or actually both at the same time.

    I still like Russia and hope the best for them, but I have been forced to change my opinion about them in certain areas. They are not tough and cohesive enough to really challenge the West and I have also given up the hope that they will help Donbass win this war.

    I would love to be wrong though.


    Last edited by Karl Haushofer on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:35 pm

    Regular wrote:Well maybe Russian officials think he is dangerous. Russia before this war had strick regulations for their own citizens participating in armed conflicts abroad.
    He can still stay in Russia I doubt he will be extradicted.
    There must be hundreds or even thousands of Donbass war vets in Russia after the war is over. Many of them will be Ukrainian citizens as well (who fled the Donbass after the defeat).

    Hopefully we will be informed about the case of Vysotsky and see how it ends up. If he is deported it will set a pretext for other war vets as well.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Regular on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:43 pm

    Thousands of war vets. Sheesh. Standing in blockpost or just taking selfies with uniform doesn't make You vet. Both sides have such vets who go on Donbass safari. Then get back with some gopro footage as war heroes. Real vets are still there like Motorola men. I am very sceptical about such warriors. There is a reason he is not getting assylum, don't You worry. And no one will deport him. If he is so scarred of it then why not to go to Novorossiya and live there. There is more important things to worry about


    Last edited by Regular on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:45 pm

    Regular wrote:Thousands of war vets. Sheesh. Standing in blockpost or just taking selfies with uniform doesn't make You vet. Both sides have such vets who go on Donbass safari. Real vets are still there like Motorola men. I am very sceptical about such warriors. There is a reason he is not getting assylum, don't You worry.
    Even standing in a block post is more than any of us has done to help Donbass. I certainly hope that Russia will not deport him or any other Donbass war vet.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:52 pm

    Even Benz Boys are noticing something is off... Cool

    Poroshenko Makes Donbass Increasingly Hate Ukraine – German Media

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150708/1024370534.html


    The Ukrainian army no longer dares to openly attack the territory of Donbass. But Kiev is further conducting a policy of isolation towards the eastern regions along with continued shelling and blockades, Südwest-Presse wrote.
    Over the past six months, both sides of the Ukrainian conflict have violated the Minsk Agreement, Südwest-Presse wrote. Instead of prisoner exchanges and constitutional reform, the parties continue shelling and hindering negotiations.

    A required restoration of normal social economic relations with the breakaway Donbass did not take place and Kiev is continuing its overall blockade: the central government prohibits the transport of all goods and supplies to the ‘rebellious’ republics and is not paying pensions and salaries.

    Ukrainians who want to travel to eastern parts of the country wait for months for special authorization. But even after that they have to stand hours for at the checkpoints and undergo humiliating check-ups. Thus, Kiev is disregarding the freedom of movement of its own citizens and making them hate their own state, Südwest-Presse wrote.
    Donbass is increasingly becoming Russian. People use rubles instead of hryvnia, buy Russian vodka instead Ukrainian gorilka and import medicines from Russia, even if they are twice as expensive as Ukrainian ones.

    Thus, the Ukrainian government has given up the idea of open offensives and become passive-aggressive. It treats its own countrymen as enemies, seeking to harm the Donbass people by any means necessary, the newspaper wrote.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Regular on Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:54 pm

    It's not my war to go and help them. It's a civil war. I helped some volunteers with uniform as I had few spare Gorka E sets. Rest is up to them to prove that they actually believe in their ideas. Ukrs are loosing faith, they are becoming weaker, they don't believe in ATO anymore. On the other side we see more and more locals joining NAF to the point volunteers from abroad are not wanted anymore. I am cautiosly pro sep, but some of their folks are as dodgy as ukr counterparts. Well time will show if idea of Novorussia is worth to fight for.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:17 pm

    Regular wrote:Thousands of war vets. Sheesh. Standing in blockpost or just taking selfies with uniform doesn't make You vet. Both sides have such vets who go on Donbass safari. Then get back with some gopro footage as war heroes.  Real vets are still there like Motorola men. I am very sceptical about such warriors. There is a reason he is not getting assylum, don't You worry. And no one will deport him. If he is so scarred of it then why not to go to Novorossiya and live there. There is more important things to worry about

    I am with Regular on this. Why did he leave when a conflict is still ongoing? If it is a problem, he should go back to Novorussia where he can still help out. As well, they dont deny everyone that has operated there, so there is something else to this.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:47 pm

    Regular wrote:It's not my war to go and help them. It's a civil war. I helped some volunteers with uniform as I had few spare Gorka E sets. Rest is up to them to prove that they actually believe in their ideas. Ukrs are loosing faith, they are becoming weaker, they don't believe in ATO anymore. On the other side we see more and more locals joining NAF to the point volunteers from abroad are not wanted anymore. I am cautiosly pro sep, but some of their folks are as dodgy as ukr counterparts. Well time will show if idea of Novorussia is worth to fight for.
    Well, shame on them if they don't take foreigners. There are lots of for example, Serbs with experience from fighting in Yugoslav wars. I thino whole batallions could be created from them and these would be about the most pro-Novorussian guys you can get anywhere.

    I wonder about Greeks - there must be close to a million unemployed young Greeks, many of whom hold strongly pro-Russian views. Population density in Ukraine is pretty low so it should always be possible to enlist someone in exchange for some uncultivated land.

    Regular, are you Russian?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:07 pm

    Hot on the heels of Ukraine calling for cultural genocide, now Western media journals are giving space to articles to advocate collective punishment and ethnic cleansing

    http://russia-insider.com/en/media-criticism/who-earth-are-enclavians-response-alexander-motyl-blockade/ri8586

    Imagine if they said this about Jews, or about blacks, or homosexuals.
    But because it's about Russians its OK.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Godric on Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:59 pm

    mind numbing stuff flamming_python ... that guy Alexander Motyl is what we in Scotland call a "f*cking roaster" ... so many backwards people it is damn scary

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:42 pm

    Preparing for the next stage in the 'development' of Ukraine.

    The radical organization is going to create so-called volunteer battalions in three Ukrainian regions. Such battalions are known for committing mass crimes, including the suppression of protests in the Donbass region. The radical Ukrainian organization "Right Sector" announced the creation of new volunteer battalions in three Ukrainian regions: Chernihiv, Sumy and Kirovograd, according to Ukrainian newspaper "Vesti". The newspaper refers to a corresponding order of commander of the Ukrainian volunteer corps Andrei Stempitsky.

    The so-called volunteer battalions are privately financed, designed to fight against the Donbass militia and are notorious for committing mass crimes.

    "Right Sector" is a far-right radical nationalist party. Its members participated in clashes with the police and the seizure of administrative buildings during the Maidan events in January and February 2014, and took part in the suppression of protests in eastern Ukraine in April 2014. The association is registered on the list of banned organizations in Russia.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150708/1024384631.html#ixzz3fKJePtSu

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:20 pm

    Looks like Maidan soldiers mutinied and will not leave Shirokino.

    http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-506-1-ukrainian-soldier-killed-3-wounded-in-attack-on-banks-of-seversky-donets-river/

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  whir on Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:23 pm

    Патриотические Силы wrote:The opening of military-patriotic camp in Donetsk.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:46 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Since January Ukrainian armorers have built 36 times more weapons than they did during the same period of last year, the country’s top arms maker announced on Wednesday. “Our biggest achievement this year is that Ukraine is once again able to turn out good weapons… Our main priority now is a switch to the production of high precision weapons putting on stream the very latest designs,” Ukroboronprom director Roman Romanov said, adding that nearly 4,000n units of new and upgraded weapons had been supplied to the country’s military over the past year. Of these 105 were tanks and armored vehicles, almost 3,000 rockets, 605 missile and artillery systems an 459 radio communication, electronic jamming and navigation units.

    Does that mean all the weapons Ukraine has exported in previous years were bad?
    Maybe Thailand, Iraq and others should sue Ukroboronprom.  Laughing  

    JohninMK wrote:However, revived after being virtually mothballed since the 1992 Soviet breakup, Ukroboronprom’s enterprises are now facing a acute shortage of specialists. Most of the experienced staff quit their dying enterprises back in the 1990 and have since lost their skills. The plants, which managed to survive the years of neglect and disrepair, are manned by pensioners or those who are about to retire due to old age.

    Good to see that the Ukrainian defense industry is literally dying off.

    Karl Haushofer wrote:I was in MP.net too (with a different name) and I was banned from there for being too pro-Russian.

    Who are you?

    Karl Haushofer wrote:I still like Russia and hope the best for them, but I have been forced to change my opinion about them in certain areas. They are not tough and cohesive enough to really challenge the West and I have also given up the hope that they will help Donbass win this war.

    Russia is not the Soviet Union.
    The majority of the Russian people would have been fine with Russia as part of the West if they and their interests had been respected by the USAE.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  max steel on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:08 pm

    Russia expands list of undesirable NCOs, including Soros Foundation and Freedom House . thumbsup


    Out of 12 organizations mentioned in the list 7 are linked to the US, 2 — to Poland and 3 — to Ukraine .


    The Russian Federation Council (parliament’s upper house) has expanded the list of foreign non-commercial organizations (NCOs) whose activities are undesirable in Russia. They include the Soros Foundation, the MacArthur Foundation, Freedom House, the World Congress of Ukrainians and another eight organizations, a draft document received by TASS said.

    The Russian "stop list" of foreign NCOs also mentions the National Endowment for Democracy foundation, the International Republican Institute, the Charles Stewart Mott Foundation, the Education for Democracy foundation, the East European Democratic Center, the Ukrainian World Coordinating Council and the Crimean field mission on human rights.

    "The Federation Council suggests considering the patriotic stop-list, which comprises a number of foreign or international non-commercial organizations known for their anti-Russian orientation with an aim of possible application to them of the norms of applicable Russian legislation on recognition of their activities as undesirable," the Federation Council, which is to approve the stop-list, said in a draft resolution.

    "It is noteworthy that when we looked through its final version, it turned out that out of 12 organizations mentioned in the list 7 are linked to the United States; two - to Poland and 3 - to Ukraine," Konstantin Kosachev, the head of the Federation Council Committee for International Affairs, said.

    Kosachev suggested forming a patriotic "stop-list" for foreign NCOs at the Federation Council plenary session on June 24.

    A law on the so-called undesirable organizations adopted in spring implies that any foreign or international non-governmental organization, "which poses a threat to the foundations of Russia’s constitutional system, defense capability and state security, can be classified as undesirable." Russia’s chief prosecutor or his deputies has the right to announce an organization to be undesirable on prior consultation with the Russian Foreign Ministry.

    The list of "undesirable organizations" will be kept and published by the Russian Justice Ministry. "Undesirable organizations" are forbidden to create subsidiaries in the territory of Russia; disseminate their information materials; carry out transactions with funds or other property via credit or non-credit financial institutions. Participation in the activities of an "undesirable organization" will be classified as an administrative offence punishable by a fine. People who systemically break this regulation may face criminal charges.

    NED supported Chechen terrorists - need one say more?

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/806763

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Erk on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:54 pm

    Donbass calling for international war crimes tribunal against Kiev.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  cheesfactory on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:04 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Even standing in a block post is more than any of us has done to help Donbass.

    Please not talk on behalf of all. Not all are just talkers like you. Thanks

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:21 pm

    Erk wrote:Donbass calling for international war crimes tribunal against Kiev.



    Really Good move.. about damn time .. even if the freedom loving
    Europe ignore this.. it will make headlines . and make them look bad.
    Im sure many european countries will try to promote and keep
    the headlines on media about kiev warcrimes.

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