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    Armenia civil unrest

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    Kyo

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    Armenia civil unrest

    Post  Kyo on Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:20 pm

    http://thesaker.is/is-a-color-revolution-underway-in-armenia/

    Like all Color Revolutions, the backers of ‘Electric Yerevan’ are motivated by concrete geopolitical interests. They want to install an anti-Russian government that would withdraw Armenia from the Eurasian Economic Union and break the historical friendship between both states, following the model spearheaded by EuroMaidan’s post-coup authorities.

    Wish we heard The Armenian's point of view.
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    max steel

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  max steel on Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:31 pm

    "‎ElectricYerevan‬" protests against a hike in power tariffs coincide with Armenia's sale of a massive complex of dams to a little-known ‪‎US‬ company with US government approval. We look at how it could impact US influence in the region."

    Protests over electricity price hikes in Armenia follow the June 6 privatization of Armenia's Vorotan Hydroelectric Cascade to private US holding company ContourGlobal, reportedly financed in part by the US government's Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC).
    The protests' declared apolitical nature and the Armenian opposition's relatively marginal role in them could indicate that the conflict is inside Armenia's government and foreign interests rather than an internal political movement. On Wednesday, a rally in Armenia's neighbor Georgia is expected to take place to support the Armenian protests.

    If the protests succeed at reversing the price hike decision, they could force the energy distributor, Russian InterRAO-owned Electric Network of Armenia, which already operates at a loss, out of business and open the company for acquisition, considerably changing the country's energy landscape.


    The protests appear to be linked to the US government's continued interest in Armenia's energy sector and ContourGlobal's purchase of the Vorotan cascade, which generates half of the country's hydroelectric power. The conditions of the no-bid privatization of the power stations have been called highly questionable and could indicate inter-government corruption involving high-level US and Armenian officials

    I'll not call it a color revoloution yet .
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    kvs

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  kvs on Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:42 pm

    If they want the Maidan, then they can join Georgia, Ukraine and a host of other states the pseudo-failed category.

    It is incredible how ignorant people are. Anyone who lives in the region should clue into the facts and realize that
    they will get nothing but economic collapse. They won't get privileged access to the EU and the EU lifestyle.
    There is no free lunch.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:59 pm

    I dont know where the supposed 15,000 people demonstrating came from cause my understanding it is roughly 3 - 4 K people.

    They can just hold out like protestors in HK, and it will die down.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:31 pm

    I think we should let the Armenians themselves sort out their own country, and avoid politicizing everything in terms of big-power politics.

    People have a right to protest rising electricity tarriffs don't they? And the government there has the right to accept or reject the protestors demands, or offer them a compromise, or just start breaking some heads over this whole thing.
    Like I said, it's for Armenians to decide not us.

    If you start talking about it in terms of the US and Russia than they will get involved for real and it will all become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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    max steel

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  max steel on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:37 pm

    flamming_python wrote:I think we should let the Armenians themselves sort out their own country, and avoid politicizing everything in terms of big-power politics.

    People have a right to protest rising electricity tarriffs don't they? And the government there has the right to accept or reject the protestors demands, or offer them a compromise, or just start breaking some heads over this whole thing.
    Like I said, it's for Armenians to decide not us.

    If you start talking about it in terms of the US and Russia than they will get involved for real and it will all become a self-fulfilling prophecy.


    As I said above .
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:41 pm

    That being said; whether planned or not American NGOs are certainly taking advantage of the situation to spread their own propaganda; one of the themes seems to be an attempt to evoke fear among the protestors of 'Russian intervention'; thus implying that the Russian government intends to interfere in Armenian internal affairs - never mind the fact that it has yet to declare any stance yet at all:

    http://www.svoboda.org/content/article/27090676.html

    In general it's an attempt to try and equate the troubles that Armenian protestors have with their government - with Russia; that Russia supports the Armenian government and all of its policies - including with force if neccessary.
    Of course this is completely absurd, but still an insidious form of propaganda. Sometimes I feel that these Radio Svoboda types could really use a metal pipe to the kneecap for their lies and scandolous assertions - I would be happy to oblige with that quite frankly.

    An even more insidious article is this one; full of malice and cloaked accusations against Russia (Russia hasn't even done anything yet):

    http://armenianow.com/commentary/analysis/64707/armenia_rally_activists_russia_sargsyan
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    max steel

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  max steel on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:52 pm

    Radio Svodoba = Radio Free Europe . A CIA initiated outlet in Europe to spread propaganda against Soviet union and now Russia .
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:55 pm

    flamming_python wrote:That being said; whether planned or not American NGOs are certainly taking advantage of the situation to spread their own propaganda; one of the themes seems to be an attempt to evoke fear among the protestors of 'Russian intervention'; thus implying that the Russian government intends to interfere in Armenian internal affairs - never mind the fact that it has yet to declare any stance yet at all:

    http://www.svoboda.org/content/article/27090676.html

    In general it's an attempt to try and equate the troubles that Armenian protestors have with their government - with Russia; that Russia supports the Armenian government and all of its policies - including with force if neccessary.
    Of course this is completely absurd, but still an insidious form of propaganda. Sometimes I feel that these Radio Svoboda types could really use a metal pipe to the kneecap for their lies and scandolous assertions - I would be happy to oblige with that quite frankly.

    An even more insidious article is this one; full of malice and cloaked accusations against Russia (Russia hasn't even done anything yet):

    http://armenianow.com/commentary/analysis/64707/armenia_rally_activists_russia_sargsyan

    What is funny is that article equates that it is because of inter RAO but not the american company that is raising the prices that was mentioned in Sputnik news. So you can already tell the bais in the Armeniannow article. Not to mention that they blame joining the EEU to their so called economic woes.
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    kvs

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  kvs on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:55 pm

    Of course people have a right to protest. But the issue is that certain foreign powers are using any protest and
    discontent to foist regime change. People in the ex-USSR are badly deluded about realities of life and have grotesquely
    unrealistic expectations. Ukraine has proven this without a shadow of a doubt. If these losers (yes, that is what
    millions of them actually are) lived in the west for a few decades they would have a clue. But they don't and don't want
    to get a clue. That is why they will be raped up the ass for a long time to come. One day their descendants will finally
    reach the plateau of understanding.

    THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH, EVER.
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    kvs

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  kvs on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:59 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:That being said; whether planned or not American NGOs are certainly taking advantage of the situation to spread their own propaganda; one of the themes seems to be an attempt to evoke fear among the protestors of 'Russian intervention'; thus implying that the Russian government intends to interfere in Armenian internal affairs - never mind the fact that it has yet to declare any stance yet at all:

    http://www.svoboda.org/content/article/27090676.html

    In general it's an attempt to try and equate the troubles that Armenian protestors have with their government - with Russia; that Russia supports the Armenian government and all of its policies - including with force if neccessary.
    Of course this is completely absurd, but still an insidious form of propaganda. Sometimes I feel that these Radio Svoboda types could really use a metal pipe to the kneecap for their lies and scandolous assertions - I would be happy to oblige with that quite frankly.

    An even more insidious article is this one; full of malice and cloaked accusations against Russia (Russia hasn't even done anything yet):

    http://armenianow.com/commentary/analysis/64707/armenia_rally_activists_russia_sargsyan

    What is funny is that article equates that it is because of inter RAO but not the american company that is raising the prices that was mentioned in Sputnik news.  So you can already tell the bais in the Armeniannow article.  Not to mention that they blame joining the EEU to their so called economic woes.

    It is the failure of the local media consumers to fall for such 2-bit bias. There is a willful disregard for facts by millions of people. How can
    anyone claim that association with the EU would be so much better. Look at the EU demands on Ukraine to jack up its natural gas prices
    by a factor of five. All consumer costs in Ukraine are being driven through the roof and this is independent of inflation, it is through policy
    of "integration".
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:04 pm

    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:That being said; whether planned or not American NGOs are certainly taking advantage of the situation to spread their own propaganda; one of the themes seems to be an attempt to evoke fear among the protestors of 'Russian intervention'; thus implying that the Russian government intends to interfere in Armenian internal affairs - never mind the fact that it has yet to declare any stance yet at all:

    http://www.svoboda.org/content/article/27090676.html

    In general it's an attempt to try and equate the troubles that Armenian protestors have with their government - with Russia; that Russia supports the Armenian government and all of its policies - including with force if neccessary.
    Of course this is completely absurd, but still an insidious form of propaganda. Sometimes I feel that these Radio Svoboda types could really use a metal pipe to the kneecap for their lies and scandolous assertions - I would be happy to oblige with that quite frankly.

    An even more insidious article is this one; full of malice and cloaked accusations against Russia (Russia hasn't even done anything yet):

    http://armenianow.com/commentary/analysis/64707/armenia_rally_activists_russia_sargsyan

    What is funny is that article equates that it is because of inter RAO but not the american company that is raising the prices that was mentioned in Sputnik news.  So you can already tell the bais in the Armeniannow article.  Not to mention that they blame joining the EEU to their so called economic woes.

    It is the failure of the local media consumers to fall for such 2-bit bias.    There is a willful disregard for facts by millions of people.  How can
    anyone claim that association with the EU would be so much better.   Look at the EU demands on Ukraine to jack up its natural gas prices
    by a factor of five.   All consumer costs in Ukraine are being driven through the roof and this is independent of inflation, it is through policy
    of "integration".  

    Pretty much. So far, these protestors are demanding about the prices in Armenia regarding energy. Little do they know that if they don't increase prices, prices will automatically increase over time or the companies go bust, new company comes in and jacks up prices anyway. But let us for a moment think that there is some insidious activity going on and it is about leaving EEU and Russian alliance: All they need to do is look over at Greece in regards to what EU membership does over time and being with "the west" and what has happened to Ukraine. And it is all in the media, so these people have no excuse not to know.

    One thing that allowed Ukraine to be an actual failure compared to lets say Macedonia, is that the government kept their foot down. If Yanukovich didn't flee, I imagine things would be very different in Ukraine right now. But because he fled, it is a different matter. In Armenia, they will need to keep their foot down, but also negotiate. If Russia's company loses out, so be it. As long as Armenia stays the way it is. If they leave, then I imagine Russia will provide no help to Armenia if Azerbaijan wants its territory back, and then Armenians will cry and whine why they had no Russian support.

    Let us see how this develops. I have faith that the Armenian government learned a thing or two in the last year.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:28 pm

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    Kyo

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  Kyo on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:31 pm

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    kvs

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  kvs on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:32 pm


    Any sheep that follow a clown wearing a US flag shirt deserve the pain and misery they get.

    I really hope most Armenians are not this dumb. Judging by Georgia, there is a reserve of people with
    IQ who do not yearn to suck Uncle Sam's dick 24/7. Let's hope this colour revolution goes nowhere.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:37 pm

    kvs wrote:

    Any sheep that follow a clown wearing a US flag shirt deserve the pain and misery they get.

    I really hope most Armenians are not this dumb.   Judging by Georgia, there is a reserve of people with
    IQ who do not yearn to suck Uncle Sam's dick 24/7.   Let's hope this colour revolution goes nowhere.

    If the article is true, then apparently this was originally called a maiden on twitter/FB by various protestor groups, but switched it to electroyevaran due to the poor popularity of Maiden. So in other words, no, majority in Armenia are not quick to rub one for Uncle Sam, but it appears they are easily fooled. Much like those pro maiden protestors in Ukraine who fled to Russia now.
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    kvs

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  kvs on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:39 pm

    Kyo wrote:

    Good question about the scope of the price rises. Are they big enough to block streets and require water cannon to be brought out.
    Like I said before, there are too many idiots who have ludicrous delusions and expectations. They are cannon fodder for Washington
    and its ambitions for global domination.
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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:43 pm

    Actually, Russia could turn it around quite easily, since Armenia's position geographically. If what unfolds in Armenia happens to be the same that happened in Ukraine, they could just kick them out of EEU, sanction them, and watch as they bleed dry, and support Azerbaijan. Eventually, at that point, Armenia will not only lose territory but also sink economically to nothingness and not much can be done to help them. The question is, would they go crawling back to Russia? I think not, but the people who protested would probably end up fleeing to Russia anyway leaving the rest to sink.

    But I don't think that will happen. I think Armenian government will step in regardless. According to people on sdelanounas discussion, this isn't the first time this has happened in Armenia.

    Where is The Armenian to fill us in?
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:06 am

    sepheronx wrote:Actually, Russia could turn it around quite easily, since Armenia's position geographically.  If what unfolds in Armenia happens to be the same that happened in Ukraine, they could just kick them out of EEU, sanction them, and watch as they bleed dry, and support Azerbaijan.  Eventually, at that point, Armenia will not only lose territory but also sink economically to nothingness and not much can be done to help them.  The question is, would they go crawling back to Russia?  I think not, but the people who protested would probably end up fleeing to Russia anyway leaving the rest to sink.

    But I don't think that will happen.  I think Armenian government will step in regardless.  According to people on sdelanounas discussion, this isn't the first time this has happened in Armenia.

    Where is The Armenian to fill us in?

    He already did

    And I must say you're acting like quite the haughty imperialist here sepheronx, taking away territory here, switching support there. Been watching too much Game of Thrones maybe.
    Try not to precede events - there is no cause for alarm, and even if there was; making some threats, sanctioning or cornering anyone is the last thing that should be done no matter what the situation or outcome.

    Armenia is Russia's ally and has been for centuries; if their people have a problem with the government let them deal with it without any outside interference.
    If on the other hand this protest is based on faulty pretenses or otherwise has no genuine popular support (as I suspect), than it will fizzle out by itself. Large protests have happened in recent years in Turkey, America, Thailand, China, Russia, Great Britain, Germany, Venezuela, Macedonia, Italy, Argentina, Brazil and I'm sure many other countries with no lasting damage. And no, American NGOs weren't involved in all of them.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:18 am

    He did? Where?

    Anyway, I have not watched Game of Thrones so maybe there is some references, I don't know. But what I do know is expecting historic ties to somehow change the mindset of a bunch of wannabe Kim Kardashian American Guido's wont do anything good. Look at Ukraine, it did not have full support of the population and yet look at were we are now.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:22 am

    sepheronx wrote:He did? Where?

    Anyway, I have not watched Game of Thrones so maybe there is some references, I don't know.  But what I do know is expecting historic ties to somehow change the mindset of a bunch of wannabe Kim Kardashian American Guido's wont do anything good.  Look at Ukraine, it did not have full support of the population and yet look at were we are now.

    Why would anyone want to be an ally of Russia, a nation that is prepared to drop them at the first smell of trouble or drop of a hankerchief - as you are proposing?

    Let's say Armenia's government is somehow toppled. Your solution is immediately to throw out, sanction, etc... Armenia?
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:24 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:He did? Where?

    Anyway, I have not watched Game of Thrones so maybe there is some references, I don't know.  But what I do know is expecting historic ties to somehow change the mindset of a bunch of wannabe Kim Kardashian American Guido's wont do anything good.  Look at Ukraine, it did not have full support of the population and yet look at were we are now.

    Why would anyone want to be an ally of Russia, a nation that is prepared to drop them at the first smell of trouble or drop of a hankerchief - as you are proposing?

    Let's say Armenia's government is somehow toppled. Your solution is immediately to threaten, sanction, etc... Armenia?

    Well, clearly from Ukraines end of things, there were plenty of benefits. But you know, I know and everyone else knows that it wouldn't just end there with dropping alliance with Russia. It would be alliance with US and bases, and then hostilities and a bunch of other bullcrap.

    So it is more or less in that regards that I suggest they do what I have suggested. I say wait and see.
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    Hannibal Barca

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:58 am

    kvs wrote:Of course people have a right to protest.   But the issue is that certain foreign powers are using any protest and
    discontent to foist regime change.   People in the ex-USSR are badly deluded about realities of life and have grotesquely
    unrealistic expectations.   Ukraine has proven this without a shadow of a doubt.   If these losers (yes, that is what
    millions of them actually are) lived in the west for a few decades they would have a clue.   But they don't and don't want
    to get a clue.   That is why they will be raped up the ass for a long time to come.   One day their descendants will finally
    reach the plateau of understanding.

    THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH, EVER.


    For a year in communist madness you need a whole decade to intoxicate so it needs patience.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:41 am

    I already mentioned in the Ukraine thread that the Armenia protests are not a Maidan. At least not at the moment.

    It is more like an Occupy Wall street or like many other protests that happen all over the world. There is definitely an element of Government mismanagement that has led to these protests.

    Of course, we have our own share of Western agents/puppets who want to politicize this and look for opportunities.
    Our government is still allowing a large number of Western funded NGOs to operate in the country freely. Its their mistake.
    The US embassy in Yerevan is the second largest US embassy in the world.

    If the protests gets politicized and some people incite violence. Our police force is very strong and well equipped, they can crush any riots, but there will be a bad aftertaste. I hope none of that happens and I am optimistic and expect a peaceful end to the protests soon.

    You guys should note the following two main points:
    - There is over 1 million Armenians (from Armenia) temporarily (and legally) working in Russia and sending money back home. Almost every family has someone in Russia. There is an additional 1 million who live there and are Russian citizens.
    - The vast majority of Armenia's exports (minerals, fruits, vegetables, wines, Armenian cognac etc.) go to Russia.

    Simply, in economic terms Armenia is too dependent on Russia and it is near impossible to disassociate the two countries. And I am not even mentioning historic, religious, cultural and military ties.

    The vast majority of Armenians understand the above, hence I don't see a Ukraine-like Maidan succeeding in Armenia.
    But the stooges and agents will always give it a try.

    This should be a wake up call to the government.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Armenia civil unrest

    Post  Mike E on Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:16 am

    Raptly has live footage of these protests...looks like a few hundred people wandering the streets, at the very worst. 

    lol! This is no maidan.

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