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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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    PapaDragon
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:21 am


    EU Shot Itself in the Foot With Anti-Russian Sanctions – French Media

    http://sputniknews.com/business/20150620/1023629983.html

    If anti-Russian sanctions remain unchanged, Germany will lose over 1 percent of its annual GDP by the year end, while France – 0.5 percent of its annual GDP. Overall in the EU, 1.9 million jobs and €80 billion are threatened.


    The European Union (EU) will feel the consequences of anti-Russian sanctions and the economic crisis in Russia far worse than was previously expected, a study conducted by the Austrian Institute of Economic Research (WIFO) said, according to Le Figaro.

    In the worst case scenario, more than 2 million jobs and over 100 billion euros will be lost in the EU, the study concluded.

    "We hypothesize that the worst decline in export has become reality," said Oliver Fritz, one of the authors of the WIFO report, adding that in the first quarter of 2015, French exports to Russia fell by 33.6 percent from last year.

    If the current trend continues throughout the year, Western sanctions and the economic crisis in Russia could affect over 1 percent of Germany's GDP by the end of the year. France, meanwhile, could lose around 0.5 percent of its GDP and 150,000 jobs. Overall, the economic crisis in Russia could threaten 1.9 million jobs and €80 billion ($90 billion) of the EU's overall GDP, the study by the Austrian Institute said.

    Leaders of many German businesses are against EU anti-Russian sanctions, as the EU itself suffers from their consequences, said Heinz Hermann Thiele, Chairman of German company Knorr-Bremse.

    According to the study, the number of Russian visitors to Paris fell by 27 percent and the French tourist industry has lost €185 million ($210 million) compared to last year.

    At the same time, WIFO could not figure out the direct impact of Western sanctions on the Russian economy. The drop in global oil prices was a big part of the economic recession in Russia (similar to other oil exporting countries) and therefore it is hard to calculate the effect of Western sanctions on the Russian economy, Fritz from WIFO said.

    Since March 2014, the United States, European Union, and other western countries have sanctioned Russia's banking, defense and energy sectors over its alleged role in the Ukrainian crisis. Moscow has repeatedly denied those allegations.

    In August, Moscow imposed a year-long food embargo on the countries that had sanctioned it, banning the import of many food products, such as milk, fruit, vegetables, cheese and meat. Food exporting countries, like Italy, Spain and the Netherlands were hit.

    The decision on the extension of anti-Russian sanctions is due to be made next week at the meeting of EU foreign ministers. Moscow vows new countermeasures if the EU sanctions are kept.



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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  whir on Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:29 am

    News-Front wrote:Poroshenko, enough to kill us! - Residents of Donetsk on June 15, 2015

    Digging trenches using ammonite explosives

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:34 am


    Major Ukrainian TV Channel Slammed for 'Russian Colors' in Logo

    Ukrainian TV channel “112 Ukraine” has received probably the most ridiculous charge ever: its logo represents the colors of Russia.


    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150620/1023630229.html

    It would be funny, if it were not so sad: the letter was signed by the chief of the National TV and radio Council, and it may have the severest consequences for the broadcaster.

    Citing citizens’ complaints, he demanded the owner’s “comprehensive explanations” in regard to the TV channel’s logo comprising red, blue and white – the “colors of the flag of aggressor country Russia.”



    The letter contained an enclosed print copy of an enraged reader slamming the TV channel for “constant trolling”, “fake experts” and “unprofessionalism” and demanding that it be fined for “displaying the aggressor’s flag colors”.



    “112 Ukraine” was launched in November 2013. In June 2015 it surpassed its closest rival – Petro Poroshenko’s TV channel 5 – by two times in the share of news programs.

    The TV channel in response called on the National TV and Radio Council’s chief to “stop suppressing independent broadcasters and finding fault with senseless things.”

    It also reminded that Petro Poroshenko’s TV channel 5 has a logo whose red color resembles a communist flag – something the president has outlawed.



    The TV channel also reprimanded the National TV and Radio Council’s chief for failing to note that the red, blue and white colors also resemble the flags of France, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Slovakia, Serbia, Croatia and the United States.

    It is time to inform Ukraine’s EU partners and the United States that their flags represent the Russian flag, which is an unforgivable mistake, the official’s logic hints.

    Maybe Petro Poroshenko should ink a decree and outlaw the three colors in Ukraine.



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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  franco on Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:48 am

    Don't know if this has already been linked or not but definitely worth the read. War is truly hell!
    http://slavyangrad.org/2015/06/19/run-from-here-run-while-you-are-still-alive/

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Godric on Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:01 pm

    the Hahols are truly deranged ... for a start it is the wrong colour of blue (Navy Blue) and that clown Oleksandr Turchynov looks as if he has some sort of abnormalities going by the pictures of his medicine ball head

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Ghoster on Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:46 pm

    Civilians are being evacuated from Oktyabrsky District in Donetsk due to intense Ukrainian shelling today. 39 people evacuated according to the source.

    http://dan-news.info/defence/ukrainskie-siloviki-obstrelyali-oktyabrskij-pervaya-gruppa-zhitelej-poselka-evakuirovana.html

    I guess it's better than doing nothing at all, as it was right now.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:04 pm

    IMF says f Greece, will not let Ukraine collapse.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-19/imf-humiliates-greece-repeats-it-will-keep-funding-ukraine-even-case-default

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:18 pm

    US Will be Able to Supply Gas to Ukraine in Two Years - John McCain

    Senator John McCain said at a press conference in Kiev that US will be able to provide Ukraine and the rest of Europe with gas in the next two years.
    ..........................................................
    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/us/20150620/1023639607.html#ixzz3ddDIChrL


    They will send it as soon as they discover wormhole...or nuke Turkey.

    Looks like Johnny-Boy has been sniffing too much Agent Orange these days... lol1

    flamming_python
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:20 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:IMF says f Greece, will not let Ukraine collapse.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-19/imf-humiliates-greece-repeats-it-will-keep-funding-ukraine-even-case-default

    Splendid news, long may the West continue to pour funds into that black hole - let's see how long they can keep it up.

    They're no idiots of course, they will buy out the Ukraine's assets for all they are worth; pipelines, roads, railroads, factories, power plants, ports, airports, hospitals, farmland, museums, state artifacts, real estate, coal mines, etc... but ongoing partisan activity and the demographic, economic, statehood collapse of the country will make it very hard to turn a profit out of anything no matter how dirt cheap they buy it for.

    Best thing for these vultures would be just pack-up these assets for transportation to other countries, and sell-off or liquidate whatever they can't evacuate for scrap and raw materials.
    Would of course only serve to accelerate the Ukraine's economic doom, but stripping it down to the bone is the only way they can get a return on all that money they're sinking in via the IMF.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  whir on Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:04 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Splendid news, long may the West continue to pour funds into that black hole - let's see how long they can keep it up.
    As long as they want since throwing a few millions billions in form of loans it's nothing compared to the fact that Russia is the one that is going to continue subsidising Kiev through it's banks, goods trade, energy discounts, private investors and remittances.

    flamming_python wrote:They're no idiots of course, they will buy out the Ukraine's assets for all they are worth; pipelines, roads, railroads, factories, power plants, ports, airports, hospitals, farmland, museums, state artifacts, real estate, coal mines, etc... but ongoing partisan activity and the demographic, economic, statehood collapse of the country will make it very hard to turn a profit out of anything no matter how dirt cheap they buy it for.
    They can always sell it for profit to Russian oligarchs since they're the only ones out of that game.

    flamming_python wrote:Best thing for these vultures would be just pack-up these assets for transportation to other countries, and sell-off or liquidate whatever they can't evacuate for scrap and raw materials.
    Would of course only serve to accelerate the Ukraine's economic doom, but stripping it down to the bone is the only way they can get a return on all that money they're sinking in via the IMF.
    Buying a few old factories for scrap metal is a crappy business, the real money maker are the basic services like education, healthcare, transportation or water that are in the hands of politicians.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Neutrality on Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:18 pm

    Belgium released more Russian assets after the arrest and they promised to release everything this Monday. In fact, now the Belgians want to make it illegal to freeze accounts that belong to embassies through a law lol!

    Ukraine also promised to pay the 75 million dollars as interest on the 3 billion that Russia lent them.

    Don't know what or why but something scared them well.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  BKP on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:16 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Regular wrote:Greece in BRICS??? Among growing industrial superpowers?? No offence to Greeks as they are good people, but Russia should use Greece to hurt Europe and destabilize EU. No other use of a country.

    Helping Greeks does hurt Europe and destabilize EU. If they get the Greece out of EU or even manage to present BRICS or Eurasian Union as a viable alternative to current power structures it would be enormous diplomatic victory. Plus BRICS do not have many financial obligations towards Greeks or reputation at stake unlike IMF and EU so any costs will be lot lower from the get go.

    It would also send powerful message to countries like Italy, Cyprus, Portugal, Spain etc. and open lots of new opportunities.

    I have personal stake in this. If EU takes a dive it would mean that Serbia will no longer have to deal with that Brussels ponzi scheme. Remember German gas deal with Russia from yesterday?
    Russian gas for Germans=Good, Russian gas for rest of us=Evil. And that is just one example...

    And don't forget: if you are friends with Greece it means that east Mediterranean becomes your playground. Twisted Evil

    I'm sorry dude, I really wish you and your country well, but I have absolutely no enthusiasm about seeing Russia become the new sugardaddy for Greece, with its $100 trillion in debt or whatever it is; nor the other hopeless economies in the Balkans either; such as Bulgaria.
    It would be worse than subsidising the Ukraine.

    IMO seriously commiting Greece or Balkan countries to the Russian-Chinese union would be a mistake; Russia does not have the financial resources and I doubt that China will be any more than lukewarm to the proposal for that matter.

    The best way to harm the EU is to
    a). Encourage them to continue sponsor counties such as Greece, and the Ukraine, and pour more and more money down blackholes
    b). Continue flirting with Greece and the Balkans, sign new business deals, infastructure projects, etc... while avoiding the negative consenquences of having anything to do with Greece's debts; but allowing Athens, Skopje, Belgrade to use their increasing ties with Russia as leverage against the EU and to blackmail Brussels.
    This will all severely weaken EU influence in the Balkans and dampen their enthusiasm for continuing to try and assert dominance there.

    Are you sure you really understand the causes of Greece's financial situation? It's possible you are also falling into the neo-liberal narrative that the situation is entirely the result of inherent Greek sloth, corruption, entitlement etc., and that the country can't amount to anything.

    But, it seems Greece's debt troubles were probably greatly magnified by the ongoing financial chicanery of the big investment banks misusing dicey instruments like derivatives. And, it's quite possible that much of the panic in regard to Greece's debt is really on the behalf of the "too-big-to-fail" Western banks.

    The fourth part of this Frontline series addressed that. And, if a Western-produced news program will on rare occasion cop to as much, the complete story is likely far more damning in regard to the sole played by the banks.



    Anyhow, I'm not saying I fully understand what's going on either. But, it may be the case that much of Greece's current problems don't reflect its real potential. Planners in the Russian government undoubtedly have a much clearer picture of this.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Khepesh on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:37 pm

    Before the fighting there were three water pumping stations supplying Lugansk, two have long been destroyed by ukrops. This evening the electricity substation supplying power to the third and last water pumping station has been destroyed by ukrops with no possibility of repair while fighting continues. Lugansk now has stored water for only two days. This may change all equations....

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:39 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Before the fighting there were three water pumping stations supplying Lugansk, two have long been destroyed by ukrops. This evening the electricity substation supplying power to the third and last water pumping station has been destroyed by ukrops with no possibility of repair while fighting continues. Lugansk now has stored water for only two days. This may change all equations....
    What's the point of continuing this war? It's obvious that Russia is not going to help and the ukrops are able to make the living of Donbass people a hell.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  whir on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:42 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:What's the point of continuing this war? It's obvious that Russia is not going to help and the ukrops are able to make the living of Donbass people a hell.
    Define "help".

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:44 pm

    I wrote two long posts about my thoughts of this war and how things look now and in the future in another forum. I will share them here as well.

    First post:


    “There won’t but any direct Russian punitative military intervention because – and this may come as a surprise to you – Donetsk and Lughansk Oblasts are not in Russia.”

    Yes, I was thinking that Russia will eventually intervene in Donbass over a year ago but certainly not anymore. Things have gone past that point. Donbass does not have the same value for Russia that Crimea has. That is why Russia did intervene in Crimea but not in Donbass.

    But those who say that Russia does not intervene in Donbass “beacause Donetsk and Lugansk people are not Russian citizens” are obviously wrong. Russia did intervene in Crimea even if at the time the Crimean people were not Russian citizens. Russia does not see Donbass as a valueble asset as it sees Crimea but more of a burden. This is why it has been left to fight against the Kiev junta.


    “Are you saying that the Ukrainian seperatist citizens in those oblasts have only been successful against central government and oligarch forces because the Russian military has been fighting alongside them? Or are you saing that they have only been succesful because of Russian logistic and intelligence support?”

    Yes, that is partially true. From what I have read from multiple (pro-Russian) sources is that Russia did help the rebels especially in two or three occasions: In Ilovaysk, Debaltsevo and possibly in Donetsk airport. They are calling this help as “northern wind”. People like Colonel Cassad have been writing about it. I don’t know how much direct military support the rebels got from Russia back then, but the support was certainly bigger then than it is now. Russia has toned down its support considerably.

    On their own the rebels are not able even to drive the junta out of Donetsk, as the current situation is. “Northern wind” is not blowing now and the rebels are stuck defending their positions under constant shelling and mounting civilian and military casualties. At the other day Zakharchenko was talking about evacuating whole districts of Donetsk because civilians are dying and in constant danger. That shows how dire the situation there is. The Kiev military has also become better, mostly due to training from US advisers. Their artillery is now more accurate and it causes serious losses for the NAF every day.


    “And if the latter, do you think such support will be withdrawn?”

    I think it was already been withdrawn, at least for temporary. Russia wants the rebels to adhere the Minsk agreement (while their enemy is given a free pass to break it). That means no Russian military support for the rebels (while the US gives a direct military support to the Kiev junta which is against the Kiev agreement) and no heavy weaponry in the front line for the rebels (while Kiev is again allowed to break the Minsk agreement and shell Donetsk every day with heavy artillery).

    If things don’t change the Novorossiya will lose the war. Either by a fast onslaught that breaks the NAF defense line (and Donetsk falls) or more likely with a slow attrition with constant non-stop shelling of civilian and military targets with heavy artillery while the rebels are not allowed to respond in kind (because Russia is not giving them the needed support and a permission).

    I hope that I’m wrong and another Ilovaysk/Debaltsevo comes out of the blue, but I’m not seeing it happening. I’m not even dreaming about taking Mariupol and Slavyansk anymore. I just want the Kiev junta driven out of an artillery reach of Donetsk and Gorlovka. But right now they can’t even do that. They are fighting a losing war.


    And the second one:

    Here is a related story from Lenta: http://lenta.ru/news/2015/06/17/usa_kiev/

    Ukrainian parliamentariancalls on to create concentration camps for the citizens of Donbass and a complete destruction of civilian infrastructure in all parts of Donbass in order to “break their will”.

    For him bombing of civilian infrastructure (houses, roads, factories, bridges etc.) is a “necessity to win this war”. He’s taking the USA’s example when they bombed Dresden in order to break the Wehrmach morale.

    This is where I see the war is going. Kiev is becoming more bold. Their last big defeat happened almost half a year ago. Since then the rebels have been rather losing than winning.

    The Kiev junta knows that they are backed by the West and are given a free reign to do just about what they want. There is basically no “red line” for them. They could literally kill every civilian in Donbass without repercussions. The Donbass people have become “personan non grata” for the Kiev junta and for the West. The human rights that the West likes to preach have been denied from the Donbass people.

    But the big question mark is Russia. The Kiev junta knows that the West will cover their asses in any case, but what about Russia? The only thing that can prevent the Kiev junta from “cleansing” Donbass would be Russia. Would Russia risk a bigger confrontation with the West by stopping the genocide of Donbass or would Russia let it happen?

    The Kiev junta is going to “test the waters”, so to speak. They will bring more and more heavy weaponry to the front line (they are doing it all the time). They are gradually increasing the destruction of civilian infrastructure in Donbass. They are gradually killing more and more civilians. They are watching if Russia reacts. If no reaction from Russia, the force against Donbass will be again increased by a nod.

    This is what their attrition tactic will be and it will continue for years, as long as Donbass falls. The West will finance their military so there is no hope of Kiev falling on its own weight.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:45 pm

    whir wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:What's the point of continuing this war? It's obvious that Russia is not going to help and the ukrops are able to make the living of Donbass people a hell.
    Define "help".
    Total military defeat of Kiev so that they are not able to continue the war.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:55 pm

    US Will be Able to Supply Gas to Ukraine in Two Years - John McCain

    Senator John McCain said at a press conference in Kiev that US will be able to provide Ukraine and the rest of Europe with gas in the next two years.

    The United States will be able to supply gas to Ukraine and other countries of Europe within two years, Senator John McCain said at a press conference in Kiev.

    “The United States will supply natural gas to Ukraine and other parts of Europe in two years,” John McCain said on Saturday, RIA Novosti reported.

    According to him, Europe's dependence on Russian gas supplies is a major obstacle that makes Europe unable to strengthen further sanctions against Russia.
    ..........
    http://sputniknews.com/us/20150620/1023639607.html
    You know, i was gonna say that McCain jumped the shark, but this more like jumping the Sharknado. Shocked

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:09 pm

    But if we look at this cynically and without emotions it is a working strategy.

    Take away the fresh water from Lugansk people -> thousands of more will die or have to go to Russia. This is what they want! They want the land for themselves and the people there dead.

    Eventually the whole civilian population is gone and only the militants/army members are there to defend the cities. Then the Kiev junta can justify leveling the whole cities of Donetsk and Lugansk with the heaviest weapons that they have got (and that the US has supplied to them). They will say - look, there are not civilians there anymore, there is nothing wrong with leveling off the whole city.

    And when Donetsk and Lugansk are leveled off the war will also end. Donbass will be an empty destroyed space, emptied from its "subhuman" population and available for "true Ukrainian patriots" to resettle.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Ghoster on Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:12 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:I wrote two long posts about my thoughts of this war and how things look now and in the future in another forum. I will share them here as well.

    First post:

    Good post. You sum up the situation pretty well.

    I wish I could be more optimistic for Novorossiya, but they're not on the winning side. IMO if NAF doesn't start responding to Ukrainian attacks adequately, then DPR/LPR governments will start to lose local support. No one even talks about the Minsk agreements seriously anymore. They were broken up completely by Ukraine since the very start.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:17 pm

    Ghoster wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:I wrote two long posts about my thoughts of this war and how things look now and in the future in another forum. I will share them here as well.

    First post:

    Good post. You sum up the situation pretty well.

    I wish I could be more optimistic for Novorossiya, but they're not on the winning side. IMO if NAF doesn't start responding to Ukrainian attacks adequately, then DPR/LPR governments will start to lose local support. No one even talks about the Minsk agreements seriously anymore. They were broken up completely by Ukraine since the very start.

    Yes, and this is why I think they should surrender. Since they cannot win this war on their own and since Russia is not going to save them what's the point of continuing this madness?

    I don't believe the Kiev junta would outright kill the civilian population if they surrender. They are going to hunt down anyone who has been cooperating with the LPR and DPR authorities and lots of innocent blood will be spilled and lots of innocent people will rot in prisons for the rest of their lives. But this is still better than have the whole cities destroyed with this long and painful attrition strategy of Kiev junta.

    The DPR and LPR leadership and all the military personnel of the NAF will of course have to go to Russia before the surrender. They will not be spared from death if they stay.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:19 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Before the fighting there were three water pumping stations supplying Lugansk, two have long been destroyed by ukrops. This evening the electricity substation supplying power to the third and last water pumping station has been destroyed by ukrops with no possibility of repair while fighting continues. Lugansk now has stored water for only two days. This may change all equations....

    This is terrible. This is worse than what Assad does. This is worse than what Hitler did. Hopefully the people of NAF controlled part of Lugansk region can evacuate to Russia within a week.

    I suppose, for Russia, revenues from selling gas to the EU is more valuable than the lives of the people of Donbas.

    Now is the time to think about Crimea. When NAF falls, the next target would be Crimea. I think what the US would do is use its navy to blockade Crimea and not let a single ship or plane enter or leave Crimea. Under such blockade, Russia will have to give Crimea back to Ukraine.

    Does anyone know what arms Ukraine buys from Russia? With billions of IMF money, Maidan can buy tens of thousands of Kornet missiles to shoot at the people of Donbas.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:42 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Ghoster wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:I wrote two long posts about my thoughts of this war and how things look now and in the future in another forum. I will share them here as well.

    First post:

    Good post. You sum up the situation pretty well.

    I wish I could be more optimistic for Novorossiya, but they're not on the winning side. IMO if NAF doesn't start responding to Ukrainian attacks adequately, then DPR/LPR governments will start to lose local support. No one even talks about the Minsk agreements seriously anymore. They were broken up completely by Ukraine since the very start.

    Yes, and this is why I think they should surrender. Since they cannot win this war on their own and since Russia is not going to save them what's the point of continuing this madness?

    I don't believe the Kiev junta would outright kill the civilian population if they surrender. They are going to hunt down anyone who has been cooperating with the LPR and DPR authorities and lots of innocent blood will be spilled and lots of innocent people will rot in prisons for the rest of their lives. But this is still better than have the whole cities destroyed with this long and painful attrition strategy of Kiev junta.

    The DPR and LPR leadership and all the military personnel of the NAF will of course have to go to Russia before the surrender. They will not be spared from death if they stay.

    That is a lot of melodramatic BS that proves that you do not know first thing about war or what happens to the losers regardless if they are defeated or surrender.

    I have a counterproposal. How about ukrops surrender. Or better yet, how about whole thing continues at the present course. Donass may get reduced to ashes but it will be just the small part of much larger and infinitely more horrible hell that will persist for decades to come and devour entire generations.

    It will be long, painful and absolutely horrific but it will have the benefit of turning life into absolute torment for millions of filthy scum who deserved it.

    A small price to pay for a measure of justice and the powerful message to those who now look up to Kiev scum as a role models.

    I say: buckle up, we have years of history in the making before us and fate of Ukraine and it's population of voluntary slaves will be effective lesson for all future groups who would choose to have an ego not befitting their achievements and track record.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:59 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:That is a lot of melodramatic BS that proves that you do not know first thing about war or what happens to the losers regardless if they are defeated or surrender.

    I have a counterproposal. How about ukrops surrender. Or better yet, how about whole thing continues at the present course. Donass may get reduced to ashes but it will be just the small part of much larger and infinitely more horrible hell  that will persist for decades to come and devour entire generations.

    It will be long, painful and absolutely horrific but it will have the benefit of turning life into absolute torment for millions of filthy scum who deserved it.

    A small price to pay  for a measure of justice and the powerful message to those who now look up to Kiev scum as a role models.

    I say: buckle up, we have years of history in the making before us and fate of Ukraine and it's population of voluntary slaves will be effective lesson for all future groups who would choose to have an ego not befitting their achievements and track record.

    cheers

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:03 pm

    Kerch bridge is coming online after 2020. So the US has to blockade Crimea before then. That means Donbas will have to finish before 2020. I wouldn't be surprised if tactical nukes are used if all else fails.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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