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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:25 am

    Bypassing official channels, Canada's Ukrainian diaspora finances and fights a war against Russia

    MARK MacKINNON

    KIEV — The Globe and Mail

    Published Thursday, Feb. 26, 2015 3:00AM EST


    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ukraine-canadas-unofficial-war/article23208129/

    Many of the most active members of the 1.2 million Ukrainian-Canadian diaspora had parents and grandparents who fled Ukraine either during the Stalin-engineered famine of the 1930s [b]or the crackdown on Ukrainian nationalism that followed the Second World War[/b]. To them, this war is just the latest chapter in a long struggle to free their homeland from Moscow’s grasp. Russia, to them, is an eternal enemy. wrote:

    i.e. Nazis...or Nazi collaborators

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Book. on Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:33 am

    A Russian Tu-214R Special Mission Aircraft has been operating quite close to Finland’s airspace for the last days.
    A Tupolev Tu-214SR, used as a communication relay aircraft often dispatched by the Russian Air Force to accompany Putin’s presidential aircraft or other Moscow’s VIPs on their trips, has departed from St. Petersburg and it is currently circling near the border with Finland.

    The orbit RSD49 (the radio callsign of the aircraft) is flying, centered on the island of Valaam, the largest in Lake Ladoga, where Putin is visiting his “spiritual mentor”, brings the Tu-214 as close as 20 km from the Finnish border.

    The Tu-214R is a Russian version of the U.S. E-4B, an airborne command and control role, that was deployed over Sochi during the Winter Games opening, and also flew over Crimea, always visible on Flightradar24.com by means of ADS-B transponder.

    In other words, while NOTAMs can expose the position of the Admiral Kutsnezov aircraft carrier, Mode-S transponder on Russia’s “doomsday” plane will most probably tell you where Putin is.

    http://theaviationist.com/2014/04/27/tu-214-near-finland/

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    Russia and Greece signed gas deal, Russia is inviting Creece joining the BRICS

    Post  onwiththewar on Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:42 am

    Guys, apparently Putin is busy with something else at the moment, which is Greece.

    http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/06/19/greek-pm-tsipras-meets-with-gazprom-chief-brics-delegation-in-st-petersburg/


    Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras discussed energy and the “Greek Stream” gas pipeline project with Gazprom chief Alexei Miller during a meeting in St Petersburg on Thursday.

    Tsipras also met with representatives of the new development bank for BRICS countries, who expressed their intense interest in cooperating with Greece.

    The Greek Prime Minister was accompanied by Productive Reconstruction, Environment and Energy Minister Panagiotis Lafazanis, while the BRICS delegation included its chief, Kundapur Vaman Kamath, IMF’s Executive Director and new Vice President of the BRICS bank Paulo Nogueira Batista, Russia’s Deputy Finance Minister Sergei Storchak and the head of state bank Vnesheconombank (VEB), Vladimir Dmitriev.

    Speaking later to Greek businessmen participating in the 19th International Economic Forum in St Petersburg, Tsipras urged them to “open their wings in open seas despite the storms.”

    “In difficult times, Greek businessmen can be pioneers in opening new horizons…You should pull us from the sleeve. We have to free ourselves from the routine of everyday life and open up new horizons, despite the economic crisis that has lasted five years and the tough negotiations of the last four months,” he noted.

    “Greece is at a difficult point, and to overcome it, it needs to ‘divorce’ the illnesses of the past,” he added.
    - See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/06/19/greek-pm-tsipras-meets-with-gazprom-chief-brics-delegation-in-st-petersburg/#sthash.ZlbkoZt3.dpuf

    Now the gas deal is already signed.

    http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/19/news/greece-russia-gas-deal/


    Officials agreed Friday to build a pipeline that would bring Russian gas through Greece and into western Europe, Russian state media reported.

    Greece's Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, who was in St. Petersburg Friday, said, "I'm here because I believe that the role of a country that wants to explore its potential to succeed, [should] have a multi-dimensional policy in its relations with countries."

    Of course, joining the BRICS is a much more complicated matter and nobody knows what's happening with it. But we now know for sure that it's Russia, namely Putin who is busy doing the legwork.

    If Putin can pull this Greece thing off, the Euro zone will crumble. Portugal and Italy will follow. Greece' exit from the Euro Zone and EU will have a much bigger shake to Europe than Russia Physically conquering Ukraine by force. Ukraine, as we know, is nothing but a bunch of piss poor drunks. Whether Ukraine is on the East, the West, Neutral, or in their own imaginary world, doesn't really bother anyone. They are insignificant. That's why the US is using Ukraine, sending them to war, sending them to meet death, and causing physical harm to Russian people living in Ukraine. However Greece on the other hand, is part of Euro Zone, member of EU. Their exit, and ultimately switch side is going to have very big and profound consequences.

    If Putin's strategy is freezing the war at Ukraine, but at the same time, recruiting a member of the EU to Russia's side, to the BRICS. Then it's still a victory for him.

    This is the only explanation I can think of why Putin's inaction at Ukraine, other than him being a softy.

    Having said that, Putin's recent comments, regarding only solving Ukraine issues by talk and RF's foreign minister's comments of not thought about letting DPR and LPR joining Russia, still angers me.

    So Putin better work harder and wrap up Greece nicely.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Khepesh on Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:33 am

    While it is "quiet", to show the attitude about this country "Ukraine", a subtitled clip from the film "72 meters". At the fall of Soviet Union the crew of Black Sea Fleet submarine "Slavyanka" are given the choice of becoming part of Ukranian Navy, or transeferring to Russian Navy and being sent to North Sea Fleet. Apart from a very few officers the crew want nothing to do with this new "Ukraine". This was filmed in 2004 before the "Orange revolution". Ukrops heavily criticised this film, but they do not have the ability to look at and within themselves and see what normal people see.....

    Btw, very good film about fictional submarine accident. Filmed at Sevastopol and I think Vidyayevo and with a real submarine, far better than "Red October", "K-19" and "Phantom" crap.


    Last edited by Khepesh on Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  whir on Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:34 am

    The Guardian wrote:Ukraine offers creditors 'last chance' to reach deal over debt
    Friday 19 June 2015 19.02 BST

    Kiev says it will stop servicing its $23bn debt unless progress is made in restructuring talks with foreign bondholders soon

    Ukraine has offered an updated debt restructuring proposal to creditors, its finance minister says, warning that Kiev would halt debt payments if bondholders did not make use of this last chance to clinch a deal in coming talks.

    Ukraine is negotiating with foreign bondholders to restructure $23bn (£14.5bn) of debt, but talks have soured over a disagreement on the necessity of a writedown on the principal of the bonds.

    The new offer from Kiev is based on a worsened outlook for the Ukrainian economy and, like the initial proposal, it includes an interest payment and principal cut and maturity extensions, finance minister Natalia Yaresko said in a briefing.

    Ukraine will stop servicing its debt “if no real progress is made in talks soon, if creditors do not use this last chance to reach an agreement” in the weeks ahead, she said.

    The cost of insuring exposure to Ukrainian debt rose on Friday to a three-week high, according to data provider Markit.

    The latest offer includes an instrument allowing creditors to recover more value if the economy performs better than currently projected.

    This new detail could help the sides reach a consensus in talks, Yaresko told New York-based investors via a video conference call after the briefing.

    “The big uncertainty is GDP, so a growth-linked instrument is very sensible indeed,” said Gabriel Sterne, head of Global Macro Research at Oxford Economics.

    “But … you still need to work out what GDP you use. What happens if you ‘lose’ the east of Ukraine. You need to spell out clearly if that makes a difference to your payments.”

    The creditor group said they had received the updated proposal and would respond in due course. Continue reading.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Regular on Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:35 am

    Greece in BRICS??? Among growing industrial superpowers?? No offence to Greeks as they are good people, but Russia should use Greece to hurt Europe and destabilize EU. No other use of a country.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:54 pm

    2SPOOKY4U wrote:
    chinggis wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Some more knowledgeable might elaborate...



    "Che there for Ukrainians?"

    sandrermakoff brought an interesting track with a site Flaytradar : the recent flight of the Tu-214R, designed for integrated opto-electronic intelligence



    This plane..

    Is a spy plane and one of the latest of Russia..
    So is very modern its equipment..
    PRobably Russia is trying to intercept communications either celular phone or military radio
    from Kiev to easter Ukraine.. The plane should also have the capability to detect any electronic equipment like counter electronics in the battle field and its location. and supply the location and exact coordinates of the equipment to the Rebels to its artillery.  

    So it fly near Ukraine borders to try to spy deep inside Ukraine territory without invading it.
    and monitor Ukraine army communications positions and any advance equipment..
    Satelites can do that but sometimes bad weather and or a spy plane help can help.



    So the spy plane could effectively locate all Ukraine army positions with electronics in the battle field ,even if they hide with camouflage . It can be very useful to locate Ukraine air defenses and radars.. but also Tanks with antennas and electronics. and pass the information to the Rebels.. for a direct hit on kiev positions.

    That is bad sign in sky. Confrontation is near, very near. Especially, when we see its route, entire border with Ukraine, and sea border too. This is not good at all. After one week all data will be processed and presented to high command. Near Ukraine border is probably all the time EW units of Russian federation who listen radio communications and radio transmissions, this flight is ordered because high command want to know more what is happen in Ukraine, deep very deep in the background.
    Just to say, in WWII American Air force is capable to find German submarine in Atlantic ocean hundred nautical miles away, with listening HF oscillation from super heterodine receiver on German submarine. Germans know that, but they think it is impossible to anyone to find this weak signal. And I speak on receiver, not on transmitter. Capability of electronic interception today is much more capable then in WWII and I see this flight like a bad sign. War machine is lubricating its wheels.

    What?

    Anyway, I doubt this was the first flight, and don't worry about WW3.

    These kind of flights happened in the Cold War rather frequently.
    Interesting that this flight seems to have been made by a plane that is still owned by the factory, not yet handed over to the RuAF. This could mean that the intelligence that it could gather, as it has all the latest gear in it, was potentially really important, or that it was just on some kind of test run. Either way, with the transponder on it was clearly broadcasting its presence to all and sundry, like us, rather than just in the worldwide intelligence community who would have known by other means.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:55 pm

    Why is this topic chopped up into lots of threads?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  mack8 on Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:11 pm

    There's a limit of maximum 67 pages and 990 posts for any one topic, something having to do with forum back-end limitations/ settings etc.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  whir on Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:29 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Interesting that this flight seems to have been made by a plane that is still owned by the factory, not yet handed over to the RuAF. This could mean that the intelligence that it could gather, as it has all the latest gear in it, was potentially really important, or that it was just on some kind of test run. Either way, with the transponder on it was clearly broadcasting its presence to all and sundry, like us, rather than just in the worldwide intelligence community who would have known by other means.
    It has been flying with it's transponder on along the western border for quite some time, there's no reason to hide it.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:03 pm

    Regular wrote:Greece in BRICS??? Among growing industrial superpowers?? No offence to Greeks as they are good people, but Russia should use Greece to hurt Europe and destabilize EU. No other use of a country.

    Helping Greeks does hurt Europe and destabilize EU. If they get the Greece out of EU or even manage to present BRICS or Eurasian Union as a viable alternative to current power structures it would be enormous diplomatic victory. Plus BRICS do not have many financial obligations towards Greeks or reputation at stake unlike IMF and EU so any costs will be lot lower from the get go.

    It would also send powerful message to countries like Italy, Cyprus, Portugal, Spain etc. and open lots of new opportunities.

    I have personal stake in this. If EU takes a dive it would mean that Serbia will no longer have to deal with that Brussels ponzi scheme. Remember German gas deal with Russia from yesterday?
    Russian gas for Germans=Good, Russian gas for rest of us=Evil. And that is just one example...

    And don't forget: if you are friends with Greece it means that east Mediterranean becomes your playground. Twisted Evil

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  par far on Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:22 pm

    Cowboy's daughter wrote:Bypassing official channels, Canada's Ukrainian diaspora finances and fights a war against Russia

    MARK MacKINNON

    KIEV — The Globe and Mail

    Published Thursday, Feb. 26, 2015 3:00AM EST


    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ukraine-canadas-unofficial-war/article23208129/

    Many of the most active members of the 1.2 million Ukrainian-Canadian diaspora had parents and grandparents who fled Ukraine either during the Stalin-engineered famine of the 1930s [b]or the crackdown on Ukrainian nationalism that followed the Second World War[/b]. To them, this war is just the latest chapter in a long struggle to free their homeland from Moscow’s grasp. Russia, to them, is an eternal enemy. wrote:

    i.e. Nazis...or Nazi collaborators



    Most Canadians are in debt and live from pay check to pay check and these idiots are wasting their money.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:33 pm

    onwiththewar wrote:Guys, apparently Putin is busy with something else at the moment, which is Greece.

    http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/06/19/greek-pm-tsipras-meets-with-gazprom-chief-brics-delegation-in-st-petersburg/


    Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras discussed energy and the “Greek Stream” gas pipeline project with Gazprom chief Alexei Miller during a meeting in St Petersburg on Thursday.

    Tsipras also met with representatives of the new development bank for BRICS countries, who expressed their intense interest in cooperating with Greece.

    The Greek Prime Minister was accompanied by Productive Reconstruction, Environment and Energy Minister Panagiotis Lafazanis, while the BRICS delegation included its chief, Kundapur Vaman Kamath, IMF’s Executive Director and new Vice President of the BRICS bank Paulo Nogueira Batista, Russia’s Deputy Finance Minister Sergei Storchak and the head of state bank Vnesheconombank (VEB), Vladimir Dmitriev.

    Speaking later to Greek businessmen participating in the 19th International Economic Forum in St Petersburg, Tsipras urged them to “open their wings in open seas despite the storms.”

    “In difficult times, Greek businessmen can be pioneers in opening new horizons…You should pull us from the sleeve. We have to free ourselves from the routine of everyday life and open up new horizons, despite the economic crisis that has lasted five years and the tough negotiations of the last four months,” he noted.

    “Greece is at a difficult point, and to overcome it, it needs to ‘divorce’ the illnesses of the past,” he added.
    - See more at: http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/06/19/greek-pm-tsipras-meets-with-gazprom-chief-brics-delegation-in-st-petersburg/#sthash.ZlbkoZt3.dpuf

    Now the gas deal is already signed.

    http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/19/news/greece-russia-gas-deal/


    Officials agreed Friday to build a pipeline that would bring Russian gas through Greece and into western Europe, Russian state media reported.

    Greece's Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, who was in St. Petersburg Friday, said, "I'm here because I believe that the role of a country that wants to explore its potential to succeed, [should] have a multi-dimensional policy in its relations with countries."

    Of course, joining the BRICS is a much more complicated matter and nobody knows what's happening with it. But we now know for sure that it's Russia, namely Putin who is busy doing the legwork.

    If Putin can pull this Greece thing off, the Euro zone will crumble. Portugal and Italy will follow. Greece' exit from the Euro Zone and EU will have a much bigger shake to Europe than Russia Physically conquering Ukraine by force. Ukraine, as we know, is nothing but a bunch of piss poor drunks. Whether Ukraine is on the East, the West, Neutral, or in their own imaginary world, doesn't really bother anyone. They are insignificant. That's why the US is using Ukraine, sending them to war, sending them to meet death, and causing physical harm to Russian people living in Ukraine. However Greece on the other hand, is part of Euro Zone, member of EU. Their exit, and ultimately switch side is going to have very big and profound consequences.

    If Putin's strategy is freezing the war at Ukraine, but at the same time, recruiting a member of the EU to Russia's side, to the BRICS. Then it's still a victory for him.

    This is the only explanation I can think of why Putin's inaction at Ukraine, other than him being a softy.

    Having said that, Putin's recent comments, regarding only solving Ukraine issues by talk and RF's foreign minister's comments of not thought about letting DPR and LPR joining Russia, still angers me.

    So Putin better work harder and wrap up Greece nicely.

    This is what I read, but I can't remember by whom...Greece pivot to Russia, and maybe Pakistan following and doing the same...etc.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Neutrality on Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:39 pm

    Poroshenko said stripping Yanukovich of President status is against the constitution. I had to read this twice. What is he playing at here or has he gone full retard?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  whir on Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:51 pm

    Sharij via Google Translate wrote:Матиос рассказал, какие видео прокуратура находит на телефонах «торпедовцев»
    Matios told which video prosecutor is on the phone "tornadovtsev"
    19/06/2015 12:33

    Chief Military Prosecutor of Ukraine Anatoly Matios told that prosecutors seized and studying the contents of electronic media company men "Tornado". In particular, we are talking about mobile phones.

    "We are studying the contents of the phone" tornadovtsev "and find there is not only a video of torture and rape, which we reported earlier, but also many other interesting entries. Video crimes. Frankly - absolutely wild for ordinary people act, "- he said Matios today, June 19, at the briefing, which was broadcast channel 112.

    In addition, he voiced some of the details of his meeting with the acting company commander "Tornado" Nicholas Cukura.

    "I have to say that I met him at gunpoint of his numerous guards," - said the chief military prosecutor.

    Matios added that it Cukura ordered mine the perimeter of the base "Tornado", setting it apart mobile rocket launchers and snipers with high-precision weapons.

    According to the prosecutor, of the company includes 50 previously convicted persons.

    "Arbitrariness and abuse of human beings - a violation of the law. Because of mutual responsibility for the blood that took soldiers "Tornado", none of them gives evidence in relation to each other. His bullying unit filmed "- said Matios.

    He spoke in particular about a crime - rape of men in an unnatural way, which the media are writing.

    "The man in the basement of the school, which is based" Tornado "was chained to sports equipment, raped unnatural way, and then killed. I find it hard to talk about it. But we know at least 10 of the people over whom "tornadovtsy" committed such actions, "- said Matios.

    With regard to the company commander Onishchenko, the prosecutor noted that "in his life was the tragic experience of criminal prosecution five times, indicating relapse."

    "If the negotiations will not bring results, then we will take a decision to involve special forces and the failure to disarm the company. If today or tomorrow the situation will not be solved, is that prescribed in the law. Storm or not - is not spelled out in the legislation, but it is the cessation of criminal activity "Tornado". There is no evidence of any contraband, which states Cukura "- said Matios.

    "My colleagues and I have seen many wars over the last year. But we were shocked. What we saw on the video "tornadovtsev" just turned our minds ", - stated the military prosecutor. Continue reading.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  whir on Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:36 pm

    Neutrality wrote:Poroshenko said stripping Yanukovich of President status is against the constitution. I had to read this twice. What is he playing at here or has he gone full retard?
    Probably because it's stupid to strip someone of the title he hold in the past, while privileges and provisions granted to former presidents can be revoked he can't lose the tittle while he stood in office.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:53 pm

    onwiththewar wrote:.......................................................

    If Putin can pull this Greece thing off, the Euro zone will crumble. Portugal and Italy will follow. Greece' exit from the Euro Zone and EU will have a much bigger shake to Europe than Russia Physically conquering Ukraine by force. Ukraine, as we know, is nothing but a bunch of piss poor drunks. Whether Ukraine is on the East, the West, Neutral, or in their own imaginary world, doesn't really bother anyone. They are insignificant. That's why the US is using Ukraine, sending them to war, sending them to meet death, and causing physical harm to Russian people living in Ukraine. However Greece on the other hand, is part of Euro Zone, member of EU. Their exit, and ultimately switch side is going to have very big and profound consequences.

    If Putin's strategy is freezing the war at Ukraine, but at the same time, recruiting a member of the EU to Russia's side, to the BRICS. Then it's still a victory for him.

    This is the only explanation I can think of why Putin's inaction at Ukraine, other than him being a softy.

    Having said that, Putin's recent comments, regarding only solving Ukraine issues by talk and RF's foreign minister's comments of not thought about letting DPR and LPR joining Russia, still angers me.

    So Putin better work harder and wrap up Greece nicely.

    Russia, or any other functional current day country for that matter, is way too complicated to be run by any one person alone. In case of Russia we are talking about hundreds, possibly thousands of people doing the work.

    So can we please stop calling it "Putin" and use it's proper name- Russia?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:01 pm

    whir wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:Poroshenko said stripping Yanukovich of President status is against the constitution. I had to read this twice. What is he playing at here or has he gone full retard?
    Probably because it's stupid to strip someone of the title he hold in the past, while privileges and provisions granted to former presidents can be revoked he can't lose the tittle while he stood in office.

    Maybe Poroshenko is thinking about his own future???

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  chinggis on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:07 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Regular wrote:Greece in BRICS??? Among growing industrial superpowers?? No offence to Greeks as they are good people, but Russia should use Greece to hurt Europe and destabilize EU. No other use of a country.

    Helping Greeks does hurt Europe and destabilize EU. If they get the Greece out of EU or even manage to present BRICS or Eurasian Union as a viable alternative to current power structures it would be enormous diplomatic victory. Plus BRICS do not have many financial obligations towards Greeks or reputation at stake unlike IMF and EU so any costs will be lot lower from the get go.

    It would also send powerful message to countries like Italy, Cyprus, Portugal, Spain etc. and open lots of new opportunities.

    I have personal stake in this. If EU takes a dive it would mean that Serbia will no longer have to deal with that Brussels ponzi scheme. Remember German gas deal with Russia from yesterday?
    Russian gas for Germans=Good, Russian gas for rest of us=Evil. And that is just one example...

    And don't forget: if you are friends with Greece it means that east Mediterranean becomes your playground. Twisted Evil

    What PapaDragon say it is entirely true, but, if Russian and other from BRICS succeed in giving credits to Greece, it will hurt more than Europe. It is nail in US hegemony over the world. When Bank of development from BRICS country's get first costumer, soon it will get second and third.. When more nails start to be hammered in plank, anyone below the plank know that his days are over. It is hard to hammer first nail but other came with more ease and peace.
    I am very interested to see how BRICS will resolve today`s financial problem(or dilemma, gold standard vs inflationary policy of today`s financial market).

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  whir on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:14 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Helping Greeks does hurt Europe and destabilize EU. If they get the Greece out of EU or even manage to present BRICS or Eurasian Union as a viable alternative to current power structures it would be enormous diplomatic victory. Plus BRICS do not have many financial obligations towards Greeks or reputation at stake unlike IMF and EU so any costs will be lot lower from the get go.

    It would also send powerful message to countries like Italy, Cyprus, Portugal, Spain etc. and open lots of new opportunities.
    Nonsense, Greece and Greeks want to remain in both EU and Euro even if the later couldn't be possible any more because they're forced out they still want to stay inside EU.

    Portuguese, Spanish and Italian ruling politicians, main businessmen and bankers are so invested in EU's stance that they're openly supporting plunging Greece into the ground just to make an example against those opposing current policies in their own countries.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:27 pm

    No one wants to stay in the EU, the IMF wants them to stay there, because they make money with IMF loans and austerity. They are destroying the entire country, economy and any future with that and that is their agenda. Every EU country would benefit by leaving the EU, yes even germany. Private banks hate that because they are the ones that get bailed out meaning get money for their speculations and missmanagement or better to say right out criminal and corrupt actions. Every citizen would benefit from it in just few years, while private banks and companies would had to cut down their profit, that would leave the countries the opportunity to adjust it back to normal, without tax evations due the bribes of private companies and banks, without being obligated to pay every damn year taxes worth of several billions for bail outs of criminal banksters while the economy is in austerity, destroying working places, wages and population and workforce of countries.

    Noone wants to stay in EU, only those who benefit from it and that is the Elite aswell the US, NO EU = NO TTIP which opens gates to US privatization of european continent and its companies, everything will be privatized over time here, banking sector is already, the next step is what is left of the social sector, like healthcare, educational system, infrastructure which is the first step, energy sector is to big junk already privatized, housing/living and the law orientated rents and Land lease costs will be leveraged with TTIP. The entire EU and its members are right out fucked when TTIP is bein forced through and the quesiton is IF but WHEN, it is forced through no matter what, unless countries start leaving EU and jail banksters and politician 5th columnist that are pushing for USA TTIP and other crimes against humanity.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:36 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Regular wrote:Greece in BRICS??? Among growing industrial superpowers?? No offence to Greeks as they are good people, but Russia should use Greece to hurt Europe and destabilize EU. No other use of a country.

    Helping Greeks does hurt Europe and destabilize EU. If they get the Greece out of EU or even manage to present BRICS or Eurasian Union as a viable alternative to current power structures it would be enormous diplomatic victory. Plus BRICS do not have many financial obligations towards Greeks or reputation at stake unlike IMF and EU so any costs will be lot lower from the get go.

    It would also send powerful message to countries like Italy, Cyprus, Portugal, Spain etc. and open lots of new opportunities.

    I have personal stake in this. If EU takes a dive it would mean that Serbia will no longer have to deal with that Brussels ponzi scheme. Remember German gas deal with Russia from yesterday?
    Russian gas for Germans=Good, Russian gas for rest of us=Evil. And that is just one example...

    And don't forget: if you are friends with Greece it means that east Mediterranean becomes your playground. Twisted Evil

    I'm sorry dude, I really wish you and your country well, but I have absolutely no enthusiasm about seeing Russia become the new sugardaddy for Greece, with its $100 trillion in debt or whatever it is; nor the other hopeless economies in the Balkans either; such as Bulgaria.
    It would be worse than subsidising the Ukraine.

    IMO seriously commiting Greece or Balkan countries to the Russian-Chinese union would be a mistake; Russia does not have the financial resources and I doubt that China will be any more than lukewarm to the proposal for that matter.

    The best way to harm the EU is to
    a). Encourage them to continue sponsor counties such as Greece, and the Ukraine, and pour more and more money down blackholes
    b). Continue flirting with Greece and the Balkans, sign new business deals, infastructure projects, etc... while avoiding the negative consenquences of having anything to do with Greece's debts; but allowing Athens, Skopje, Belgrade to use their increasing ties with Russia as leverage against the EU and to blackmail Brussels.
    This will all severely weaken EU influence in the Balkans and dampen their enthusiasm for continuing to try and assert dominance there.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:41 pm

    Neutrality wrote:Poroshenko said stripping Yanukovich of President status is against the constitution. I had to read this twice. What is he playing at here or has he gone full retard?

    LOL

    Since when does Porko, or all his fellow coupists, murderers, oligarch-governers, etc... give a flying f about the constitution?
    They've broken it at every turn! Ever since day 1; don't you know - violating the constitution was how the gang got into power.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:08 pm

    flamming_python wrote:.............................................
    I'm sorry dude, I really wish you and your country well, but I have absolutely no enthusiasm about seeing Russia become the new sugardaddy for Greece, with its $100 trillion in debt or whatever it is; nor the other hopeless economies in the Balkans either; such as Bulgaria.
    It would be worse than subsidising the Ukraine.

    IMO seriously commiting Greece or Balkan countries to the Russian-Chinese union would be a mistake; Russia does not have the financial resources and I doubt that China will be any more than lukewarm to the proposal for that matter.

    The best way to harm the EU is to
    a). Encourage them to continue sponsor counties such as Greece, and the Ukraine, and pour more and more money down blackholes
    b). Continue flirting with Greece and the Balkans, sign new business deals, infastructure projects, etc... while avoiding the negative consenquences of having anything to do with Greece's debts; but allowing Athens, Skopje, Belgrade to use their increasing ties with Russia as leverage against the EU and to blackmail Brussels.
    This will all severely weaken EU influence in the Balkans and dampen their enthusiasm for continuing to try and assert dominance there
    .

    No disagreement but you're missing the point I tried to make. Getting Greece out of EU does not automatically mean having to pay off their debts. No one in their right mind would want to do that. Greeks will have to pay that themselves. This is geopolitics.
    Sink or swim, move forward or remain EU whipping boy.

    But the bolded part would not only benefit Russia but would also provide maneuvering space for countries over here to drastically improve their economic and geopolitical situation and, at the same time, get rid of Brussels parasites.

    Having EU constantly sticking their noses into our business is like trying to swim with anvil tied around your neck... Remeber Macedonia from month ago?


    Last edited by PapaDragon on Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:12 pm


    dunno  Maybe off topic but I guess it relates to Ukraine in a way:


    NATO Unhappy Over US Nukes in Europe - German Media

    America’s NATO partners, Germany and France, are against the proposed placement of US nuclear missiles in Europe, German media reported on Friday.


    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150620/1023631966.html

    Washington pitched the idea during a NATO defense ministers’ meeting in February, Der Spiegel newsmagazine said.

    Washington is mulling the possible deployment of its nuclear-tipped ICBMs in Europe in response to Russia’s alleged violation of the 1987 Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty – something America’s European allies do not think ever happened.

    The US accuses Russia of testing the R-500 cruise missile, with an estimated range of 500 kilometers, and the RS-26 ballistic missile.

    However, the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), Germany's foreign intelligence agency, currently does "not see any substantial change to the danger" posed by Russia.

    President Putin's statements over Russia's intention to acquire 40 intercontinental missiles were described by BND deputy head Guido Müller, in a secret meeting with select lawmakers, as little more than a "propaganda show," the German magazine noted.

    According to Müller, Russia’s refurbishment plans are well known, but analysts at the BND believe the chances of success are not high: from a technical standpoint, the modernization of the 40 nuclear warheads in such a short period of time is hardly possible, the BND vice-president added.

    Berlin is concerned that Europe could once again become the setting of a new East-West confrontation with Germany as the most likely battleground.

    The US’ plans, however, appear designed with an eye toward avoiding an open disagreement. That is why Washington only intends to send a few companies to the border nations.

    The larger part of the brigade will be initially stationed in Grafenwöhr, in the German region of Upper Palatinate. The same is apparently true of the heavy weaponry. The Bundeswehr, Germany's armed forces, estimates that it will include approximately 100 battle tanks.

    US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter is expected to discuss the details with German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen during his visit on Monday, Der Spiegel wrote.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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