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    Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:17 pm

    '
    Like I said before, they will first finish designing Il-112 and sending it into production and then move on to development of Il-276 (ex 214)

    No India required
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    eehnie

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  eehnie on Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:25 am

    George1 wrote:The MTA aircraft became the Il-276

    As the newspaper Izvestia reported in an article by Aleksei Ramm and Nikolai Surkov, "Il-276 is waiting in the army." A new military transport aircraft will be able to do without concrete runways, "the Russian Armed Forces are planning to purchase medium-sized IL-276 military transport aircraft. The novelty will be able to transport several combat vehicles or up to hundreds of soldiers at a distance of five to six thousand kilometers. At the same time the IL-276 can do without runways - it easily sits down and takes off from the ordinary ground. The car is created on the basis of the unrealized joint Russian-Indian project of the multifunctional transport aircraft MTA (Multi-role Transport Aircraft).

    According to experts, the military urgently needs IL-276 to replace the fleet of outdated transporters still built in Soviet times. In addition, the novelty can be of interest to foreign buyers, primarily from among the traditional partners of Russia.

    As "Izvestia" was told in the main command of the Air and Space Forces, at present the military department is in talks with aircraft builders. In particular, the timing and the program for creating the IL-276 are being discussed. But it is already certain that the military need is no less than 55 cars.

    In JSC "Ilyushin" Izvestia confirmed that negotiations with the military are under way. But they refused to comment further.

    The intergovernmental agreement on the joint development and construction of the MTA was signed by Moscow and New Delhi in 2007. Three years later, the base agreement was concluded by the Russian United Aircraft Corporation and India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. It was expected that the first flight the aircraft will perform in 2017. Subsequently, the terms were shifted several times. And in late 2015, the Indian side announced the withdrawal from the project.

    But in September 2016 representatives of Ilyushin reported that the project of a medium military transport aircraft (SVTS) would be continued. And in June this year SVTS received the official name of IL-276 (earlier in the Russian media the project of MTA-SVTS was called Il-214).

    IL-276 is a twin-engine jet with a take-off weight of just over 60 tons. Its payload is about 20 tons. The machine is capable of flying over 6,000 kilometers at a speed of more than 800 kilometers per hour. At the same time, "two hundred and seventy-sixth" is easy to do without runways. He is able to take off, land on the ground.

    Independent military expert Anton Lavrov believes that the IL-276 will be very much in demand by the Russian military.

    "In the future, it will replace all those transport vehicles that have not been manufactured since the times of the USSR-An-12, An-72, An-32," the expert explained. - This aircraft will be powered by the upgraded IL-76. They are well mastered by industry. This will greatly accelerate the process of debugging the aircraft and making it into service.

    Anton Lavrov added that the average transport aircraft is very necessary for transportation to such distances, where it is not expedient to drive a large IL-76, for example, inside military districts or regions.

    "The IL-276 will have a run-up and fuel consumption will be much less,"
    the expert said. - It is useful for the transfer of light technology and people. The transportation of supplies to remote garrisons is very in demand, especially in the Arctic. Also on its base will probably be created aircraft EW and radio intelligence. And if you want, you can make a flying laboratory and even a passenger plane to transport the command.

    Andrei Frolov, editor-in-chief of the magazine Export of Arms, noted in his conversation with Izvestia that there is a demand for medium-sized military transport planes on the world market.

    - Russian development may well interest traditional buyers of our military products. But much will depend on the timing, - the expert explained. - The IL-276 will have strong competitors. Medium transport vehicles with turbojet engines are already offered for export by Brazilian and Chinese manufacturers.

    Currently, there are 40 medium military transport An-72 and more than one hundred AN-12 in the fleet of the Russian military department.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2904531.html

    Interesting article.

    I bolded and marked in red, the comments about this aircraft replacing other aircrafts of lower size and payload:

    An-72/74/71
    An-24/26/30/32

    Very logical. And very right.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:02 am

    Interesting article.

    I bolded and marked in red, the comments about this aircraft replacing other aircrafts of lower size and payload:

    An-72/74/71
    An-24/26/30/32

    Very logical. And very right.

    Keep in mind that this new aircraft is a jet that is replacing a four engine turboprop aircraft.

    The reason the Il-276 with two jet engines with jet speed and 20 ton payload can replace so many different aircraft is because of jet speed.

    To start with you have the An-12 which has a 20 ton payload but lower flight speed than a jet.

    To get things moved faster there was the An-72 with about a 6 ton payload but also with jet speeds

    The An-32 was basically an An-24/26also with about a 6 ton payload but with much more powerful engines so it could operate in hot and high airfields.

    Being a jet the Il-276 will have engine commonality with the Il-476, it will be able to move payloads of 20tons like the An-12 but over greater distances at greater speeds.

    It will be able to operate from hot and high airfields, but would be too big to replace the An-24/26.

    The Il-114 and Il-112V will replace the smaller aircraft in the 6 ton payload roles.


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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  eehnie on Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:36 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Interesting article.

    I bolded and marked in red, the comments about this aircraft replacing other aircrafts of lower size and payload:

    An-72/74/71
    An-24/26/30/32

    Very logical. And very right.

    Keep in mind that this new aircraft is a jet that is replacing a four engine turboprop aircraft.

    The reason the Il-276 with two jet engines with jet speed and 20 ton payload can replace so many different aircraft is because of jet speed.

    To start with you have the An-12 which has a 20 ton payload but lower flight speed than a jet.

    To get things moved faster there was the An-72 with about a 6 ton payload but also with jet speeds

    The An-32 was basically an An-24/26also with about a 6 ton payload but with much more powerful engines so it could operate in hot and high airfields.

    Being a jet the Il-276 will have engine commonality with the Il-476, it will be able to move payloads of 20tons like the An-12 but over greater distances at greater speeds.

    It will be able to operate from hot and high airfields, but would be too big to replace the An-24/26.

    The Il-114 and Il-112V will replace the smaller aircraft in the 6 ton payload roles.

    The last sentence is not a safe bet.

    There is a work on optimization of the packing of the loads to be done. Now the loads are optimized for the available fleet, but when the number of small transport aircrafts gets reduced by its use, the results of the optimization process will demand the procurement of the optimal aircrafts and helicopters. Bigger aircrafts and helicopters are chearper in costs per Kg and Km. The new Il-276 is well placed in the mix of aircrafts and helicopters to cover the future demand for military air transport.
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  AMCXXL on Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:04 am

    eehnie wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Interesting article.

    I bolded and marked in red, the comments about this aircraft replacing other aircrafts of lower size and payload:

    An-72/74/71
    An-24/26/30/32

    Very logical. And very right.

    Keep in mind that this new aircraft is a jet that is replacing a four engine turboprop aircraft.

    The reason the Il-276 with two jet engines with jet speed and 20 ton payload can replace so many different aircraft is because of jet speed.

    To start with you have the An-12 which has a 20 ton payload but lower flight speed than a jet.

    To get things moved faster there was the An-72 with about a 6 ton payload but also with jet speeds

    The An-32 was basically an An-24/26also with about a 6 ton payload but with much more powerful engines so it could operate in hot and high airfields.

    Being a jet the Il-276 will have engine commonality with the Il-476, it will be able to move payloads of 20tons like the An-12 but over greater distances at greater speeds.

    It will be able to operate from hot and high airfields, but would be too big to replace the An-24/26.

    The Il-114 and Il-112V will replace the smaller aircraft in the 6 ton payload roles.

    The last sentence is not a safe bet.

    There is a work on optimization of the packing of the loads to be done. Now the loads are optimized for the available fleet, but when the number of small transport aircrafts gets reduced by its use, the results of the optimization process will demand the procurement of the optimal aircrafts and helicopters. Bigger aircrafts and helicopters are chearper in costs per Kg and Km. The new Il-276 is well placed in the mix of aircrafts and helicopters to cover the future demand for military air transport.


    It is much easier than all that
    Russian Air Forces currently operates the following cargo airplanes:

    STRATEGIC TRANSPORT:
    An-124 , half of them (10) are modernized , the other half to be modernized until 2025. After 2030 to be replazed by PAK-TA
    Il-76MD , half to be modernized to Il-76MD-M and other half replaced by Il-476 until 2025.Later replace the other half
    An-22 will be retired after 2020. The only reason for have actuve several is that only the 10 modernized An-124 are active

    REGIONAL TRANSPORT:
    Each Military District , and each Fleet has one regiment of cargo airplanes for the own use , that has:
    An-12 (20 ton. payload / turboprop) , to be replaced for Il-276 (20 ton. payload /turbofan) once Ukranian side is discarded (An-178)
    An-26 (5,5 ton. payplad / turboprop) , to be replaced for Il-112 (6 ton. payload / turboprop) once Ukranian side is discarded (An-140)

    About An-72 (7,5 ton payload), this airplanes are used in the central subordinated units of Chaklovsky-Moskow and Ostafyevo(Navy),  and also in small detachments as Gromovo, Talagi-Arkhangelsk , Yuzhno-Sakhalin, Yhoskhar-Ola...
    For the moment , replacement dont seems necesary and also , this plane could be modernized for extend the useful life
    the replacement should be an airplane of the 10 ton. payload segment

    Russian Airforce does not operates An-24/32 , An-71/74
    The few An-30 are not transport airplanes, are a version for recognition


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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    GarryB

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:30 am

    Smaller aircraft have a role to play with both lighter load jobs and operations from smaller airfields to remote deployed forces.


    About An-70 (7,5 ton payload), this airplanes are used in the central subordinated units of Chaklovsky-Moskow and Ostafyevo(Navy),  and also in small detachments as Gromovo, Talagi-Arkhangelsk , Yuzhno-Sakhalin, Yhoskhar-Ola...

    ???

    It is in Russias interests to get all Ukrainian designs out of Russia service as quickly as possible.

    You don't mention the An-2... the ryaschok or whatever it is called seems to have failed in some way, which is a bit of a shame.


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    eehnie

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  eehnie on Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:54 am

    AMCXXL wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Interesting article.

    I bolded and marked in red, the comments about this aircraft replacing other aircrafts of lower size and payload:

    An-72/74/71
    An-24/26/30/32

    Very logical. And very right.

    Keep in mind that this new aircraft is a jet that is replacing a four engine turboprop aircraft.

    The reason the Il-276 with two jet engines with jet speed and 20 ton payload can replace so many different aircraft is because of jet speed.

    To start with you have the An-12 which has a 20 ton payload but lower flight speed than a jet.

    To get things moved faster there was the An-72 with about a 6 ton payload but also with jet speeds

    The An-32 was basically an An-24/26also with about a 6 ton payload but with much more powerful engines so it could operate in hot and high airfields.

    Being a jet the Il-276 will have engine commonality with the Il-476, it will be able to move payloads of 20tons like the An-12 but over greater distances at greater speeds.

    It will be able to operate from hot and high airfields, but would be too big to replace the An-24/26.

    The Il-114 and Il-112V will replace the smaller aircraft in the 6 ton payload roles.

    The last sentence is not a safe bet.

    There is a work on optimization of the packing of the loads to be done. Now the loads are optimized for the available fleet, but when the number of small transport aircrafts gets reduced by its use, the results of the optimization process will demand the procurement of the optimal aircrafts and helicopters. Bigger aircrafts and helicopters are chearper in costs per Kg and Km. The new Il-276 is well placed in the mix of aircrafts and helicopters to cover the future demand for military air transport.


    It is much easier than all that
    Russian Air Forces currently operates the following cargo airplanes:

    STRATEGIC TRANSPORT:
    An-124 , half of them (10) are modernized , the other half to be modernized until 2025. After 2030 to be replazed by PAK-TA
    Il-76MD , half to be modernized to Il-76MD-M and other half replaced by Il-476 until 2025.Later replace the other half
    An-22 will be retired after 2020. The only reason for have actuve several is that only the 10 modernized An-124 are active

    REGIONAL TRANSPORT:
    Each Military District , and each Fleet has one regiment of cargo airplanes for the own use , that has:
    An-12 (20 ton. payload / turboprop) , to be replaced for Il-276 (20 ton. payload /turbofan) once Ukranian side is discarded (An-178)
    An-26 (5,5 ton. payplad / turboprop) , to be replaced for Il-112 (6 ton. payload / turboprop) once Ukranian side is discarded (An-140)

    About An-70 (7,5 ton payload), this airplanes are used in the central subordinated units of Chaklovsky-Moskow and Ostafyevo(Navy),  and also in small detachments as Gromovo, Talagi-Arkhangelsk , Yuzhno-Sakhalin, Yhoskhar-Ola...
    For the moment , replacement dont seems necesary and also , this plane could be modernized for extend the useful life
    the replacement should be an airplane of the 10 ton. payload segment

    Russian Airforce does not operates An-24/32 , An-71/74
    The few An-30 are not transport airplanes, are a version for recognition

    I assume you are talking about the An-72, not the An-70. About the An-22 I would say it by other way. Likely the use until the exhaustion of the An-22 is helping to keep a reserve of An-124 (that likely will be modernized too). But there is an important problem with this model of replacement.

    Russia, will not avoid a dimensional analysis of the current and future warfare of the Russian Armed Forces, and will not avoid the analysis of the demand of military air transport, from every point to start to every point of destination. From the last the analysis about the about optimization of the packing of the loads is inmediate and necessary.

    All this is key to define the dimensions of the future transport aircrafts and helicopters, to obtain the optimal dimensional configurations and the best possible ratios for the costs of transport per Kg and per Km, and even to find new needs in the refered to airfields,...

    In the military air transport Russia will not aply a 1 by 1 replacement model. This would mean to consider valid the analysis done in the 1950s and in the 1960s, with some improvements of the 1970s and 1980s. This will not happen. Russia is in the moment of designing a new generation of air transport aircrafts and now is the right moment to do the complete analysis, and I have not doubt that has been done (likely finnished before the definition of the 2018-2025 State Armament Program). Note that the analysis and solutions of the 1950s and 1960s were strongly affected by the technical (theorical and practical) limitations at the time, that in many cases are not the same problem today.

    I tend to think that the Il-276 and the Su-SJ have the right size to be in the basis of the Russian military air transport of the future. Under this size I tend to think that the helicopters are dominant in low costs.
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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  AMCXXL on Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:58 am

    GarryB wrote:Smaller aircraft have a role to play with both lighter load jobs and operations from smaller airfields to remote deployed forces.


    About An-70 (7,5 ton payload), this airplanes are used in the central subordinated units of Chaklovsky-Moskow and Ostafyevo(Navy),  and also in small detachments as Gromovo, Talagi-Arkhangelsk , Yuzhno-Sakhalin, Yhoskhar-Ola...

    ???

    It is in Russias interests to get all Ukrainian designs out of Russia service as quickly as possible.

    You don't mention the An-2... the ryaschok or whatever it is called seems to have failed in some way, which is a bit of a shame.

    In the list only "Military Transport Airplanes"  , An-2 in not a freigther , is a liasion plane and is too small
    About "ukranian designs" , really are SOVIET designs , and can still work a lot of time.
    The An-124 will continue working until 2035 or 2040.
    There is no hurry to replace An-72, they are not very aged and Rusia only operates about 30 , very few for a new design project
    You would need more demmand for design a new model in the 10 ton. segment , and nowadays there are many models like Casa C-295 with a great sales success, which leaves you few potential buyers
    Is probably , in the future An-72 is replaced by Il-276 and/or Il-112 depending on the needs of each specific unit
    For the moment, An-72 is a good airplane for remote airfields


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:55 am; edited 3 times in total
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    AMCXXL

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  AMCXXL on Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:10 am

    eehnie wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:
    eehnie wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Interesting article.

    I bolded and marked in red, the comments about this aircraft replacing other aircrafts of lower size and payload:

    An-72/74/71
    An-24/26/30/32

    Very logical. And very right.

    Keep in mind that this new aircraft is a jet that is replacing a four engine turboprop aircraft.

    The reason the Il-276 with two jet engines with jet speed and 20 ton payload can replace so many different aircraft is because of jet speed.

    To start with you have the An-12 which has a 20 ton payload but lower flight speed than a jet.

    To get things moved faster there was the An-72 with about a 6 ton payload but also with jet speeds

    The An-32 was basically an An-24/26also with about a 6 ton payload but with much more powerful engines so it could operate in hot and high airfields.

    Being a jet the Il-276 will have engine commonality with the Il-476, it will be able to move payloads of 20tons like the An-12 but over greater distances at greater speeds.

    It will be able to operate from hot and high airfields, but would be too big to replace the An-24/26.

    The Il-114 and Il-112V will replace the smaller aircraft in the 6 ton payload roles.

    The last sentence is not a safe bet.

    There is a work on optimization of the packing of the loads to be done. Now the loads are optimized for the available fleet, but when the number of small transport aircrafts gets reduced by its use, the results of the optimization process will demand the procurement of the optimal aircrafts and helicopters. Bigger aircrafts and helicopters are chearper in costs per Kg and Km. The new Il-276 is well placed in the mix of aircrafts and helicopters to cover the future demand for military air transport.


    It is much easier than all that
    Russian Air Forces currently operates the following cargo airplanes:

    STRATEGIC TRANSPORT:
    An-124 , half of them (10) are modernized , the other half to be modernized until 2025. After 2030 to be replazed by PAK-TA
    Il-76MD , half to be modernized to Il-76MD-M and other half replaced by Il-476 until 2025.Later replace the other half
    An-22 will be retired after 2020. The only reason for have actuve several is that only the 10 modernized An-124 are active

    REGIONAL TRANSPORT:
    Each Military District , and each Fleet has one regiment of cargo airplanes for the own use , that has:
    An-12 (20 ton. payload / turboprop) , to be replaced for Il-276 (20 ton. payload /turbofan) once Ukranian side is discarded (An-178)
    An-26 (5,5 ton. payplad / turboprop) , to be replaced for Il-112 (6 ton. payload / turboprop) once Ukranian side is discarded (An-140)

    About An-70 (7,5 ton payload), this airplanes are used in the central subordinated units of Chaklovsky-Moskow and Ostafyevo(Navy),  and also in small detachments as Gromovo, Talagi-Arkhangelsk , Yuzhno-Sakhalin, Yhoskhar-Ola...
    For the moment , replacement dont seems necesary and also , this plane could be modernized for extend the useful life
    the replacement should be an airplane of the 10 ton. payload segment

    Russian Airforce does not operates An-24/32 , An-71/74
    The few An-30 are not transport airplanes, are a version for recognition

    I assume you are talking about the An-72, not the An-70. About the An-22 I would say it by other way. Likely the use until the exhaustion of the An-22 is helping to keep a reserve of An-124 (that likely will be modernized too). But there is an important problem with this model of replacement.

    Russia, will not avoid a dimensional analysis of the current and future warfare of the Russian Armed Forces, and will not avoid the analysis of the demand of military air transport, from every point to start to every point of destination. From the last the analysis about the about optimization of the packing of the loads is inmediate and necessary.

    All this is key to define the dimensions of the future transport aircrafts and helicopters, to obtain the optimal dimensional configurations and the best possible ratios for the costs of transport per Kg and per Km, and even to find new needs in the refered to airfields,...

    In the military air transport Russia will not aply a 1 by 1 replacement model. This would mean to consider valid the analysis done in the 1950s and in the 1960s, with some improvements of the 1970s and 1980s. This will not happen. Russia is in the moment of designing a new generation of air transport aircrafts and now is the right moment to do the complete analysis, and I have not doubt that has been done (likely finnished before the definition of the 2018-2025 State Armament Program). Note that the analysis and solutions of the 1950s and 1960s were strongly affected by the technical (theorical and practical) limitations at the time, that in many cases are not the same problem today.

    I tend to think that the Il-276 and the Su-SJ have the right size to be in the basis of the Russian military air transport of the future. Under this size I tend to think that the helicopters are dominant in low costs.

    Yes , of course, I was talking about the An-72

    About "Military Transport Aircrafts" , we are talking about airplanes for to move military units (soldiers/paratroopers , impedimenta, ammunitions, military vehicles , BMP, MBT, etc ...)
    Airliners , even those that use VKS ,are excluded of that field
    The first role of the Military Transport Aviation (BTA) is support and deploy the airborne forces (VDV) , and also support all the military deploys
    For simply to move charges, usually a private companies as Volga-Dniepr is transport for example, breakdowned airplanes to the repair plants , or materials for the new opened bases in the artic
    Military Transport Aviation is not FedEx , although of course, it must improve the performance of its aircrafts
    Russia cannot have a dozen of different Military Transports , is not the USSR , with 4 models or 5 at much , is enough
    The needs for move a battalion of the airborne troops are basically the same , and now , the new airplanes are more capable than the older models
    The future models Pak-TA , Il-476/Il-478 , Il-276 and Il-112 are enough for the Russian needs , even if there is not a new design for the 10 ton payload segment


    ABout the An-124 , there are 10 modernized in 2011-2015.
    After the Ucranian problems , seems the modernization is delayed, in fact ,in 2016 and 2017 should have been handed over several more An-124 modernized  and in 2020 have the projected 22 modernized
    But now there are An-124´s in Ulyanovsk with the modernization works stopped or delayed
    When Russia has about 15 An-124 modernized, the An-22 will be retired
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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  eehnie on Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:31 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:
    eehnie wrote:I assume you are talking about the An-72, not the An-70. About the An-22 I would say it by other way. Likely the use until the exhaustion of the An-22 is helping to keep a reserve of An-124 (that likely will be modernized too). But there is an important problem with this model of replacement.

    Russia, will not avoid a dimensional analysis of the current and future warfare of the Russian Armed Forces, and will not avoid the analysis of the demand of military air transport, from every point to start to every point of destination. From the last the analysis about the about optimization of the packing of the loads is inmediate and necessary.

    All this is key to define the dimensions of the future transport aircrafts and helicopters, to obtain the optimal dimensional configurations and the best possible ratios for the costs of transport per Kg and per Km, and even to find new needs in the refered to airfields,...

    In the military air transport Russia will not aply a 1 by 1 replacement model. This would mean to consider valid the analysis done in the 1950s and in the 1960s, with some improvements of the 1970s and 1980s. This will not happen. Russia is in the moment of designing a new generation of air transport aircrafts and now is the right moment to do the complete analysis, and I have not doubt that has been done (likely finnished before the definition of the 2018-2025 State Armament Program). Note that the analysis and solutions of the 1950s and 1960s were strongly affected by the technical (theorical and practical) limitations at the time, that in many cases are not the same problem today.

    I tend to think that the Il-276 and the Su-SJ have the right size to be in the basis of the Russian military air transport of the future. Under this size I tend to think that the helicopters are dominant in low costs.

    Yes , of course, I was talking about the An-72

    About "Military Transport Aircrafts" , we are talking about airplanes for to move military units (soldiers/paratroopers , impedimenta, ammunitions, military vehicles , BMP, MBT, etc ...)
    Airliners , even those that use VKS ,are excluded of that field
    The first role of the Military Transport Aviation (BTA) is support and deploy the airborne forces (VDV) , and also support all the military deploys
    For simply to move charges, usually a private companies as Volga-Dniepr is transport for example, breakdowned airplanes to the repair plants , or materials for the new opened bases in the artic
    Military Transport Aviation is not FedEx , although of course, it must improve the performance of its aircrafts
    Russia cannot have a dozen of different Military Transports , is not the USSR , with 4 models or 5 at much , is enough
    The needs for move a battalion of the airborne troops are basically the same , and now , the new airplanes are more capable than the older models
    The future models Pak-TA , Il-476/Il-478 , Il-276 and Il-112 are enough for the Russian needs , even if there is not a new design for the 10 ton payload segment


    ABout the An-124 , there are 10 modernized in 2011-2015.
    After the Ucranian problems , seems the modernization is delayed, in fact ,in 2016 and 2017 should have been handed over several more An-124 modernized  and in 2020 have the projected 22 modernized
    But now there are An-124´s in Ulyanovsk with the modernization works stopped or delayed
    When Russia has about 15 An-124 modernized, the An-22 will be retired

    My previous comment was talking about analysis that must be done taking into account all the air transport operations in the Russian Armed Forces. All the  needs must be detected this way, to define correctly the best mix of helicopters and aircrafts and their specifications, from a whole analysis that allow them to meet the requirements of the Russian Aerospace Forces, the Russian Naval Aviation and the Russian Airborne Troops, in the refered to the transport of persons and materials.

    I agree that Russia should solve the needs with approximately 5 specific aircrafts for transport of material. The 5 cathegories that are appearing as stronger in my anaylisis (external analysis with limited information) would be the following:

    - Size cathegory of the An-124.
    - Size cathegory of the An-22.
    - Size cathegory of the Il-76.
    - Size cathegory of the Tu-204/214.
    - Size cathegory of the An-10/12.

    Note that the situation is the same in the case of airliners, with the same size cathegories emerging as the strongest.

    This model offers also the option of solving the five cathegories with two main designs using the 3 sizes model for configurations with 2, 4 and 6 engines.

    There is obviously a direct competence between aircrafts and helicopters. For the size cathegory of the An-10/10 and the Il-276, there is also a competence of helicopters that can become successful like the Mi-26/27. A competence that does not exist for bigger aircrafts. But for the cathegories under this size, where the helicopters have been present, they have been becoming dominant in the last decades, and with the improvements in speed, maximum altitude and range, this dominance only will increase.

    As example, this dominance is proved in the size cathegory just below the cathegory of the A-10/12 and the Mi-26/27, by the higher historical production of the Mi-6/10 helicopter than the An-72/74/71, the An-148/158/178 and the rest of the recent aircrafts of this size cathegory.

    Note how aircrafts of the size cathegories under 20 tons of payload tend to sacrifize part of the payload in order to keep bigger range (something also doable in helicopters).
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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:08 pm

    The program for creating the medium military transport aircraft IL-276

    On October 31, 2017, the TASS news agency disseminated an interesting interview of the head of the Il-276 long-range medium military transport aircraft program at Igor Iliya Bevzyuk's PJSC Il.



    A new medium military transport aircraft (SVTS) is being created in the interests of the Russian Defense Ministry. By the end of the year, the military department must approve the tactical and technical task for this machine. About what the characteristics of the new aircraft, from which airfields he will be able to take off and whether to possess weapons, in an interview with TASS said the program manager in the PJSC "IL" Igor Bevzyuk.

    - Igor Anatolyevich, please tell us about the background of this project.

    - The idea of ​​creating SVTS to replace the morally outdated An-12 appeared at the turn of the 80's and 90's of the last century. Already at that time, Ilyushin's design bureau had worked out the appearance of such a car, but the characteristics of the first work did not yet provide a fundamental separation from other options. The project was postponed for the time being.

    Let me remind you that at that time Tupolev Design Bureau and Antonov KB were actively offering their variants, after consideration of which the AN-70 was adopted as a basis. The history of this airplane turned out to be a dead-end, and at the beginning of zero they returned to the Ilyushin Design Bureau project, especially since India expressed its interest in the joint development of a transport plane of this class.
    After a rather long period, the requirements for the appearance of the Russian-Indian MTA (Multipurpose Transport Aircraft) were formed. However, the risks associated with the implementation of some of the requirements led to the "freezing" of this project, although legally the Indians still did not completely abandon it.

    Whatever the case, the need for a medium-class ramp airplane has not disappeared anywhere, but has even become more relevant as the An-12 aircraft are approaching their end of life. And the Ilyushin Design Bureau jointly with the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Industry and Trade developed a draft tactical and technical task (TTZ) for an average military transport aircraft.

    - Did the Indian side somehow explain this decision?

    - The set of requirements that were imposed on the aircraft, led to a high degree of technical risks. As soon as the degree of novelty in the project exceeds a certain threshold, there are questions related either to the timing of implementation, or to the attainability of the declared characteristics, or to the price.

    - After 2015, the project decided to return to Russia?

    - In 2014, Ilyushin OKB together with the Ministry of Defense proposed to develop technical requirements for SVTS according to Russian standards, without taking into account the Indian specifics. As a result, it was decided to create such a machine, and its initiative development was launched. The Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Industry and Trade agreed on a draft tactical and technical assignment (TTZ). The working name of the aircraft, which is accepted in the design bureau, is IL-276.

    - So it has not been officially approved yet?

    - No, at the present time there is a process of coordination and approval of the TTZ at the SVTS. The de jure name of the aircraft can be assigned later, as it was, for example, with the T-50. Our project has not yet received its final proper name.

    - What stages will follow?

    - Since December we are proceeding to the outline design of the IL-276. Completion of design work, preparation of production and the first departure we plan in the first quarter of 2023, and the completion of the work itself with the appropriation of the relevant letter is 2025 with the beginning of serial deliveries to the troops in 2026.

    The fact is that the life of An-12 aircraft is coming to an end in Russia. Somewhere in the year 2023, a massive dropout of these machines from the combat units will begin, which is why the time for developing a new aircraft, its access to tests and mass production remains relatively short.

    What kind of plane is this? What are its characteristics?


    It will be a traditional layout for a military transport aircraft: a single-body high-wing (the scheme for attaching the wing to the fuselage, when it passes through the upper half of its section - about TASS) with a T-tail, with two engines under the wing. It can take off from unprepared and unpaved airfields.

    It is a ramp airplane with the possibility of not only loading and unloading works on the ground, but also the possibility of landing from it. In addition to the basic functions that are inherent in military transport aviation, he will have additional functions related to the delivery of goods during rescue operations, emergency situations, etc.

    - In a word, he will take all the best from his "older brother" - IL-76?

    - Of course. If we are talking about technical solutions related to the reliability of the aircraft, of course, the best solutions will be used, adapting them to the dimensionality of our car

    - The engines are the same as the IL-76?


    - The engine of the first appearance is the well-proven PS-90A-76, which has the necessary characteristics to reduce technical risks. And as soon as the PD-14 confirms its characteristics during serial production, it will be used on the IL-276.

    - In the cross section, the plane will be the same as the IL-76?


    - Yes. In this case, the length of the cargo cabin will be somewhat shorter than the basic modification of the IL-76.

    - What is its range, speed?


    - The speed is about 800 km / h, which is typical for aircraft with turbojet engines. Of course, it significantly exceeds the speed that the An-12 could afford. As a result, the delivery time of a particular cargo will be significantly reduced. At maximum load, its range will be a couple of thousand kilometers, but from the point of view of the overtaking option, when it is required to provide the maximum range, it is up to seven thousand kilometers.

    - IL-276 will be in the version of tanker?

    - In the basic version, we regard it as a typical transport aircraft, but this platform can be used for modernization in a very wide range.

    - Does the Il-276 provide for standard armament?

    - On any such aircraft are provided on-board defense complexes. Means of protecting the aircraft from external impact will be on the IL-276.

    Where will it be built?

    - Aviastar plant in Ulyanovsk today is determined by the parent manufacturer.

    - Is it correct to call it the modernization of the IL-76, if the modernization of Il-76 combat aircraft is underway to MD-M version and new IL-76MD-90A are being built?

    - Synergy for these two projects is, and of course, the use of technical solutions in terms of developments on avionics, nodes and units will, of course. But consider it a modification ... Two-hundred-ton and seventy-ton machine are all the same different things. Even with the visual similarity of some elements of the design in many ways this is a new machine.

    - IL-112 does not intersect with this project?

    - IL-112 is a promising light aircraft. IL-276 is located just between the light IL-112 and the heavy Il-76. For Il-112, a large number of completely new equipment is being developed, the reserve for which will be used.

    - How is the process of designing a new aircraft going?

    - We try to make the most of the opportunities offered by digital design. The key moment - starting from the stage of the preliminary design project - is to link all the requirements that relate not only to the design work, but also to the processability of this design, the production preparation, the logistics requirements, and the requirements related to the maintenance and operation of this aircraft. This allows you to find and fix all the shortcomings at the earliest stages, reducing the time to go to mass production.

    And of course, we pay special attention to the development for a given cost price, this applies not only to the product as a whole, but also to each technical solution. This approach provides not only transparency of pricing, but also compliance with the "price-quality" parameter, which is especially important in the current economic conditions. In advanced design bureaus this has already become a daily practice, which made it possible to arrive at a specific numerical parameter, namely, the correction of the error identified at the design stage costs 1 cu; The same error, revealed during the production, costs 10 cu; at the stage of final assembly, the price of fixing the error increases to $ 100, and at the stage of testing and operation it is already 1000 or more.

    - The team is already formed?


    - The formation of the team is happening right now. Today, several large programs are conducted simultaneously at the Ilyushin Design Bureau, and we are of course very interested in attracting both experienced and novice specialists to create an aircraft with world-class characteristics by applying advanced development practices.

    - How many such vehicles in the troops?

    - According to preliminary estimates, in the next decade, the troops will need to replace several dozen An-12. In general, the demand for such aircraft in Russia and the world is great, and we are confident that the IL-276 will find its place in the sky and will become an indispensable "airplane".

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2922742.html


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    GarryB

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:17 am

    So the question is which will go ahead.... the twin engined Tu-214, or the Il-276... both are twin jets so both are rather faster than the An-12.

    the real question is what sort of payload capacity will the newer Il-276 be able to manage.

    The Tu-214 was designed to replace the An-12 so its payload is 20 tons but it is possible that the Il-276 might be able to manage more from paved air strips and perhaps offer 20 tons from round air strips.


    - Size cathegory of the An-124.
    - Size cathegory of the An-22.
    - Size cathegory of the Il-76.
    - Size cathegory of the Tu-204/214.
    - Size cathegory of the An-10/12.

    The main problem here is that the Tu-204.214 is a 20 ton capacity design and so is the An-12.

    Personally I think it could be better described using existing types as 120 ton, 80 ton, 40 ton, and 20 ton payload capacities with existing platforms being An-124, An-22, Il-76, and An-12.

    Replacements will change this to the new family of heavy transports in the 250, 150, and 80-100 ton payload ranges with 6, 4 and 2 engines respectively, theIl-47 in the 60 ton payload and the Il-276 in the 20-30 ton payload capacity range.

    The international market for a 20 ton payload aircraft is enormous... currently occupied by An-12 and C-130... a new relatively cheap but fast aircraft like an Il-276 would sell rather well.


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    eehnie

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  eehnie on Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:18 pm

    I remember to read in some of the articles that the Il-276 would be also of 20 tons of payload, and around 60 tons of maximum take-off weight.

    If I'm not wrong the 20-25 tons of payload of the Tu-204/214 are aditional to the 200 passengers transported. Otherwise the difference in size would not make sense. The size cathegory of the aircraft allows to payloads of 40 tons in air transport configuration. In terms of maximum take-off weight it would be aircrafts between 75 and 125 tons of maximum take-off weight, fairly bigger than the An-10/12 and the Il-276.

    More concretely:

    - Size cathegory of the An-124. MTO weight 350-585 tons. Bigger 4 engines -> around 160 tons payload.
    - Size cathegory of the An-22. MTO weight 210-350 tons Bigger 2 engines -> around 80 tons payload.
    - Size cathegory of the Il-76. MTO weight 125-210 tons. Smaller 6 engines -> around 60 tons payload.
    - Size cathegory of the Tu-204/214. MTO weight 75-125 tons. Smailler 4 engines -> around 40 tons payload.
    - Size cathegory of the An-10/12. MTO weight 45-75 tons. Smaller 2 engines -> around 20 tons payload.

    The relation between payloads keeps the relation between the number of engines (which implicitly is a relation between the power).

    The bigger design with 6 engines would lead to an aircraft with around 240 tons payload in the size cathegory of the An-225, that would be also doable, but has not a precedent with success. It means the cathegory is weaker than the rest.

    Also there is the option of doing different designs for every one of the 5 sizes cathegories, that would have more flexible specifications. There are projects for both cases.
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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:So the question is which will go ahead.... the twin engined Tu-214, or the Il-276... ...........

    There is no question there. Il-276 will be able to land on dirt strips, Tu-214 can't.

    Crucial feature.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:40 am

    Sorry.... my mistake... I confused the IL-214 with the Tu-214...

    The Il-214 IS the MTA and so it is also the Il-276.

    More concretely:

    - Size cathegory of the An-124. MTO weight 350-585 tons. Bigger 4 engines -> around 160 tons payload.
    - Size cathegory of the An-22. MTO weight 210-350 tons Bigger 2 engines -> around 80 tons payload.
    - Size cathegory of the Il-76. MTO weight 125-210 tons. Smaller 6 engines -> around 60 tons payload.
    - Size cathegory of the Tu-204/214. MTO weight 75-125 tons. Smailler 4 engines -> around 40 tons payload.
    - Size cathegory of the An-10/12. MTO weight 45-75 tons. Smaller 2 engines -> around 20 tons payload.

    The relation between payloads keeps the relation between the number of engines (which implicitly is a relation between the power).

    The bigger design with 6 engines would lead to an aircraft with around 240 tons payload in the size cathegory of the An-225, that would be also doable, but has not a precedent with success. It means the cathegory is weaker than the rest.

    The facts of the matter are these aircraft depend on suitable engines being developed.

    As we know the engines being developed we can estimate and assume about the designs based on the size categories known and the engine capacity.

    You mention big engines and smaller engines.

    The small engines are the PD-14, which will be used on the Il-276 with two engines fitted, while the Il-476 will eventually use four of the same engines in the 60 ton payload performance range... I don't think there is a need for the 40 ton payload aircraft any more.

    For the larger engine aircraft there will be the PD-35 engine being developed for the PAK DA from the NK-32 of the Blackjack.

    I suspect it will be first used to replace the Ukrainian engines in the An-124 as that will make them much more useful, and eventually they will come up with a 3 aircraft family with two, four, and six engines of the PD-35 type. They wont build that many of the 6 engine type because such an aircraft would fill a very small niche for the space industry.

    The engine will make all three aircraft an option.

    Regarding the Tu-214 it is not a front and rear loading transport, it has side doors which makes it unable to carry military vehicles... limiting its usefulness.


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:18 am

    Apparently funding for this plane is being cut by 10 times. But of course there isn't any say on final cost or anything. Issue stems from Aviastar plant charges way too much for aircraft.

    I guess they are still undecided on this aircraft. Chances are, they will increase purchases of Il-76-90 and negotiate that systems price down. Upgrade as well existing transport planes....
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    GarryB

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:40 am

    The problem wont really come to a head until the mid 2020s when An-12s start being withdrawn, but they really do need a 20 ton capacity transport.

    It would be interesting to look at potential variants including AWACS and tanker as well as fire fighter types.

    Previously it was going to be a new aircraft but if they just make a smaller twin engined Il-476 then they might get away with it costing ten times less.


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Il-276 Medium Transport (MTA)

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:08 pm

    They may go that route to save costs everywhere from il-476 to the 276 and il-76 upgrades.

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