Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Share

    Cyberspec
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1946
    Points : 2117
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:38 pm

    Three Russian companies' Morinformsystem-Agat, NPP Radar MMS and Ilyushin, signed an agreement on establishing air launched missile system with the  IL-76 as the carrier reports "Interfax". The missile mentioned is the Klub-K which will be modified into an air launched version. This is a private initiative of the mentioned companies who hope later to attract interest from the Min. of Defence

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/6889/?PHPSESSID=7139fc2cd199df14721fc86a1319a605

    P.S.

    found a report in English

    Russia to Offer Klub Air-Launched Missile Version
    http://www.forecastinternational.com/abstract.cfm?recno=190229

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:01 pm

    They have shown a mockup of a missile with a Mig-35 I believe...

    Will have a look.

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5629
    Points : 6282
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  Viktor on Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:05 pm

    MIG-35 and Su-35 too. I thought it was a done thing.

    Missile like that not having air-launch capabilities has severally degraded export potential.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:11 pm



    The 3M14AE weapon depicted above.



    And the large weapon on the inner pylon above.

    Now I realise these are a drawing and a model, but I have photos from an airshow somewhere with the 3M14AE sitting near the Mig-35, and I also remember seeing a video about the mig-35 or the Club showing a Mig-35 launching the weapon... I remember because it was strange because the missile itself is inside a very large launch tube and on release the missile flys out of the falling tube.

    Cyberspec
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1946
    Points : 2117
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:13 pm

    There are ship and submarine launched versions. It's too heavy to be carried by a fighter.

    The K version is the camouflaged container version which they want to mount onto a Il-76

    Arrow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjRfWDTk1mY

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:40 pm

    In fact here is a mockup in front of a Mig-29SMT.



    Now I know it would be more impressive if I have a picture of a 3M54AE... like this:



    Of course the article you posted is worth all the mockups in the world... I could make a mockup.

    Knowing they are going to flight test them in the next few years is interesting and more useful than all the photos of mockups I can find... Smile

    Vladimir79
    Grand Marshal
    Grand Marshal

    Posts : 2193
    Points : 3099
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:11 am

    It is quit a bit smaller than Brahmos so its size doesn't preclude it from air launch. MoD doesn't like them because they are unreliable and inaccurate.

    Cyberspec
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1946
    Points : 2117
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:40 pm

    Yes, but we're talking about the Club-K which is larger and much heavier than the Club-A (air launched version).

    The Brahmos is yet to be integrated on the Su-30MKI. It will require some strengthening of the airframe and a special launcher. Not all MKI's will be modified to this standard, so you can't really strap on a Brahmos on just any fighter....I've also heard rumours (not sure if confirmed) that it might be a safety issue for the Su-30 to land with a Brahmos strapped on.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Air Launched Cruise missiles

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:44 am

    Have seen a video of the Su-34 launching a Yakhont, which is 2.5 tons... and that is as heavy as any model of Club.
    The Moskit was also designed to be centreline carried and launched from Flanker sized aircraft and it was 4.5 tons in the air launched version.

    The Club-K is the mockup posted above and is intended to be carried by Su-35.

    The Club, or Klub family includes 5 different missiles and they are the:

    3M-54E - Anti-shipping variant, Basic length 8.22 m, with a 200 kg warhead. Range is 200 km. Sea-skimmer with supersonic terminal speed and flight altitude of 15 feet (4.6 m) at final stage(2.9 mach).[2]

    3M-54E1 - Anti-shipping variant, Basic length 6.2 m, with a 400 kg warhead. Range is 300 km. Sea-skimmer with subsonic terminal speed(0.8 mach). Allegedly capable of disabling or even sinking an aircraft carrier.[3]

    3M-14E - Inertial guidance land attack variant. Basic length 6.2 m, with a 400 kg warhead. Range is 275 km. Subsonic terminal speed(0.8 mach).

    91RE1 - Submarine launched anti-submarine variant, with an anti-submarine torpedo. Basic length 8.0 m, with a range of 50 km. Supersonic speed. The torpedo has a warhead weight of 76 kg. This, along with the 91RE2, are similar to the American ASROC/SUBROC missile/torpedo system. Follows a ballistic path into the surface, speed is 2.5 mach.

    91RE2 - Ballistically launched anti-submarine variant, with an anti-submarine torpedo. Basic length 6.5 m, with a range of 40 km Supersonic speed. The torpedo has a warhead weight of 76 kg. For surface ship use only. The lightest of all variants, with a launch weight of 1300 kg. Speed is 2 mach.

    The mockup in my previous post shows the 3M-54AE positioned below a poster of a Su-35, which is a member of the Klub or Club family, as is the 3M14AE in front of the Mig-29SMT.

    The 3M14AE in many ways is just a Harpoon with a much heavier warhead.

    Cyberspec
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1946
    Points : 2117
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:36 am

    The domestic LR Club which BTW is called Kalibr, comes in a version with a 2000km range. I doubt very much that can be launched from a fighter sized aircraft (including the Su-34)

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:46 am

    Moskit is the air launched version of the SS-N-22 Sunburn and was 9 metres long and weighed in at 4.5 tons.

    The Kh-55 had a range of 2,500km and was less than 2 tons, so unless this new missile has a very heavy conventional warhead that takes it up past the weight of Moskit it could be carried by the Su-34.

    The issue of course would be that it would only carry one, and the Su-34s would have other duties than to launch cruise missiles.

    Will be interesting to see what the modification of the Il-76 would be to allow them to carry and launch cruise missiles.

    Rather than hang them under the wings which creates drag and reduces lift, and immediately screams to the world that it is a cruise missile carrier rather than a transport aircraft I wonder if they might have some sort of internal carriage arrangement... either roll the missiles out the rear with parachutes which could be cut a few seconds after they leave the aircraft to ensure they get clear and then fire up a solid rocket booster to regain speed, or if they intend a more radical arrangement with an opening in the floor to allow missiles to be simply dropped and launched with some sort of automated rack missile handling system to manouver the missiles above the open hatch and throw them down into the slipstream clear of the aircraft...

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9432
    Points : 9924
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Russian standoff missiles

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:57 pm

    The Kh-65 missile is a tactical derivative of Kh-55 cruise missile. Its range has been reduced to 500-600 km while retains the same navigation system of the Kh-55 missile. The Kh-65 missile has been designed to attack high value targets protected by air defense systems and aircraft. In fact, the Kh-65 can be considered as a conventional standoff weapon/cruise missile.

    The Russian attack aircraft, such as Su-24 Fencer and Su-30/32/34, will use the Kh-65 missile to attack ground targets from standoff ranges.



    Do we have any info for this missile?


    Last edited by George1 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:23 am

    A photo:




    The idea behind the Kh-65 was pretty much the same idea behind the Kh-555... they were both conventional alternative uses for former strategic cruise missiles.

    The kh-65 was an anti ship missile and the Kh-555 was a conventionally armed land attack missile.

    Of course now the Navy seems to have decided on the Klub family of anti ship and land attack missiles (along with the Oniks), and I would think with their new conventional theatre and strategic attack roles the Bears and Blackjacks will likely have lots of Kh-555s to fill their storage caches... the anti ship Kh-65 probably never got fully developed, though it was offered for export at airshows... its 500-600km range would mean it could not be for export anyway.

    Considering the new model of the Uran (i believe it is called Uranium now) has twice the flight range at about 240km in a 650kg missile that would likely be much better than a 500-600km range ex-cruise missile.

    I think this conversion option will not be adopted as the kh-555 has longer range in the land attack configuration, and so does the land attack and presumably domestic anti ship missiles too.

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9432
    Points : 9924
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  George1 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:01 pm

    i thought that Kh-65 was the russian answer to AGM-158 JASSM standoff missile

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:03 pm

    Except that AGM-158 JASSMs development started in 1995 and there were brochures advertising the Kh-65 at the 1992 Moscow Airshow...

    If they are copied, then I guess the AGM-158 JASSM is a copy of Kh-65.

    Of course Kh-65 is, as I mentioned a concept weapon designed to use up Kh-55 and Kh-55SM strategic missiles in nonstrategic roles.

    I would rather suspect that the Kh-555 was found to be more useful and with a much greater range much more likely a use for the old missiles.

    There were reports of a Kh-SD that was supposedly a smaller, and reduced range Kh-101/-102 that could be carried internally by the Tu-95MS and Tu-22M3, but there is not a lot of information floating around about it.
    Note the Kh-101 and 102 are already stealthy long range cruise missiles with conventional and nuclear warhead options, so they are the equivalent of the Kh-55SM and Kh-555 already, but with longer range... stealthy design... and more accurate guidance.

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9432
    Points : 9924
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:49 am

    This missile actually exists or not?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:23 pm

    The photo clearly shows it was developed to at least mockup form, and considering it was shown in pamphlets in 1992 suggests they probably developed it in the 1980s, however who was the user?

    The Tu-160s and Bears didn't have a conventional role till after 2000, so the missile was clearly developed for the Tu-22M3 as an anti ship missile... so its likely competition was the upgraded Kh-22M.

    Now the Kh-22M is a potent missile, but also very unpopular in service as its liquid fuel is really bad stuff to work with.

    The reported replacement is the Kh-32 with increased speed and double the range of the older missile, but it looks externally the same as the Kh-22M.

    I have recent photos of Tu-22M3s flying around with what look externally like Kh-22Ms though if the above is correct they might actually be Kh-32s.

    The Kh-22M could fly at very low level or very high altitudes to fly over or under defences and had a fairly high speed of about mach 2-3. The new Kh-32 is supposed to be able to manage mach 4-5 in the diving profile.

    I rather suspect the idea behind the Kh-65 was to kill two birds with one stone... to go for an alternative attack method of low, slow but stealthy and long range, while using up existing missile airframes as replacement strategic cruise missiles were already on the drawing boards at that time (Kh-101/102).

    I rather suspect the Kh-65 was developed in competition with the Kh-32 and I suspect the Kh-32 won that competition... perhaps it uses safer to handle fuels and more powerful but more efficient rocket motors. (The original Kh-22M has two rocket motors with a high energy climb and acceleration rocket motor and a lower thrust sustainer motor that uses less fuel to extend operational range.)

    I rather doubt the Kh-65 was fully developed in 1992, but its design parameters had clearly been defined and they were likely looking for foreign partners to help fund development like many ex-Soviet projects did at that time.

    The Kh-555 probably did most to finally bury the Kh-65 as the Kh-555 uses old Kh-55 and Kh-55SM missile bodies and has a land attack capability, whereas the Kh-65 would be rather too similar to the Klub subsonic anti ship missile... which in the domestic version has a range of 2,000km.
    The idea of the Kh-65 will likely live on in the mysterious Kh-SD which is supposed to be a reduced range and lighter model of the Kh-101/102, though that could in fact actually be the Kh-555 as it likely has the guidance and conventional warhead package developed for the Kh-101. (the Kh-102 has the same guidance but a nuclear warhead).

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9432
    Points : 9924
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:14 pm

    Kh-65SE - tactical version announced in 1992 with 410 kg conventional warhead and restricted to the 600 km range[6] limit of the INF treaty.

    Kh-SD (средней дальности Srednei Dalnosti - 'Medium Range') - 300 km range conventional version announced in 1995, possibly for export. Shared components with the Kh-101, range reportedly increased to 600 km with a high-altitude approach, but the Kh-SD was apparently shelved in 2001.[1] An alternative active radar seeker was proposed for anti-shipping use.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-55_%28missile_family%29

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:09 pm

    Wiki is not a great source... it often derives its information from different sources, and if you read them all together you would find most of the information is conflicting.

    Therefore it comes down to the assessment of the person putting the wiki page together as to how good the overall info is.

    Kh-65SE - tactical version announced in 1992 with 410 kg conventional warhead and restricted to the 600 km range[6] limit of the INF treaty.

    The INF treaty limits are 500km to 5,500km but only apply to ground launched ballistic and cruise missiles.

    The MTCR agreement limits exports of missile technology for weapons with warheads larger than 500kgs and ranges of 300km or more.

    AFAIK there is no internation agreement that would limit the flight range of Kh-65 to 600km as being air launched the INF treaty does not apply and for domestic use the MTCR does not apply either as it is for exported technology.

    Kh-SD (средней дальности Srednei Dalnosti - 'Medium Range') - 300 km range conventional version announced in 1995, possibly for export. Shared components with the Kh-101, range reportedly increased to 600 km with a high-altitude approach, but the Kh-SD was apparently shelved in 2001.[1] An alternative active radar seeker was proposed for anti-shipping use.

    The Kh-SD was likely killed by the Klub family of missiles which offer a range of performances and capabilities for export and domestic use.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:16 pm

    Keep in mind that the Klub was based on the Granat sub, ship, and land based cruise missile, which is actually rather different from the Kh-55 air launched cruise missile.

    These photos show the Klub in its air launched version, though likely only mockups at the moment:




    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9432
    Points : 9924
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:40 am

    Klub family is not supersonic however

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:52 pm

    One of the anti ship versions of the Klub has a subsonic cruise missile body and a mach 2.8 supersonic terminal payload section.

    The Kh-65 is not supersonic either... it has the engine and body of the Kh-55.

    Ahhh... note I said the Klub is based on the Granat... I think you are confusing the subsonic sub and ship and land launched Granat, with the much much bigger and heavier Granit carried by the Oscar class SSGNs and Kirov class vessels and the Kuznetsov.

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9432
    Points : 9924
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:28 pm

    3M-14E land attack missile launch from aircraft what range will have?

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:15 pm

    For export it will have the magic range of 300km... because of MTCR. (Missile Technology Control Regime).

    For domestic use it has been reported to have a range of something like 2,000km for the surface launched model. The subsonic all the way missile that is.

    With an air launched model range could be 2,000-2,500km depending on the launch height and speed.

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9432
    Points : 9924
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:34 pm

    2,000-2,500km it sounds too much

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Air-to-Surface Missiles (Short Range and Standoff)

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 3:07 pm


      Current date/time is Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:07 pm