Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Share
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3923
    Points : 3961
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:07 am

    Isos wrote:

    5 years for 6 jets confused  ? Seriously ? Where are the 36 that they said they will order ?

    Armata - first 12 then 140.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12398
    Points : 12877
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:32 am

    franco wrote:KUBINKA (Moscow region), Aug. 22 - RIA Novosti. The Russian Defense Ministry and MiG signed a contract to supply six new MiG-35 light fighters until 2023, the RIA Novosti correspondent reports from the signing ceremony.

    This is the first contract for the delivery of this type of aircraft. Under the agreement, the military department will receive aircraft in the modifications "UB" and "C".


    6 aircrafts in 5 years, so the next contract after 2023?? Strange deal
    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 3091
    Points : 3123
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  franco on Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:24 am

    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:KUBINKA (Moscow region), Aug. 22 - RIA Novosti. The Russian Defense Ministry and MiG signed a contract to supply six new MiG-35 light fighters until 2023, the RIA Novosti correspondent reports from the signing ceremony.

    This is the first contract for the delivery of this type of aircraft. Under the agreement, the military department will receive aircraft in the modifications "UB" and "C".


    6 aircrafts in 5 years, so the next contract after 2023?? Strange deal

    Perhaps the radar is not ready until then... this allows a few models to train and experiment with.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7376
    Points : 7470
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:40 am

    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:KUBINKA (Moscow region), Aug. 22 - RIA Novosti. The Russian Defense Ministry and MiG signed a contract to supply six new MiG-35 light fighters until 2023, the RIA Novosti correspondent reports from the signing ceremony.

    This is the first contract for the delivery of this type of aircraft. Under the agreement, the military department will receive aircraft in the modifications "UB" and "C".


    6 aircrafts in 5 years, so the next contract after 2023?? Strange deal

    Probably just to keep the project going for export market and to keep company alive until new STOVL is ready for production

    Compared to Su-30SM this plane is low grade, if price were much lower then it would be different story but since it's not...
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3923
    Points : 3961
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:33 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    Probably just to keep the project going for export market and to keep company alive until new STOVL is ready for production

    Compared to Su-30SM this plane is low grade, if price were much lower then it would be different story but since it's not...

    a) check my latest post about LMFS in VSTOL thread please Smile

    b) my bet is on Indian tender. Yup after latest corruption scandal. oops "Le bribery" from French side and with selling manufacturing technology Indians can consider it better deal.
    avatar
    AMCXXL

    Posts : 248
    Points : 250
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:55 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    George1 wrote:
    franco wrote:KUBINKA (Moscow region), Aug. 22 - RIA Novosti. The Russian Defense Ministry and MiG signed a contract to supply six new MiG-35 light fighters until 2023, the RIA Novosti correspondent reports from the signing ceremony.

    This is the first contract for the delivery of this type of aircraft. Under the agreement, the military department will receive aircraft in the modifications "UB" and "C".


    6 aircrafts in 5 years, so the next contract after 2023?? Strange deal

    Probably just to keep the project going for export market and to keep company alive until new STOVL is ready for production

    Compared to Su-30SM this plane is low grade, if price were much lower then it would be different story but since it's not...

    After 15 years of speculations, hundred of articles and tons of commets throughout the web , 6 MiG-35 in 2023, this is all !!!!

    Is evident while Rusia is buying the Flanker family and getting the units ready to operate with those planes, they do not need more different fighter jets


    About the MiG-35 has been said that is not necesary, no more Mig-29 regiments remain in the VVS

    Of the +/- 70 soviet MiG-29 in service , the half are MiG-29UB and only remains a combat squadron in active, that even is not clear that MiG-35 is necesary if that is replaced by MiG-29SMT or Su-30SM

    Also, many of MiG-29 are in training centers, and perhaps it does not make much sense to train with MiG-29/35 if you have Su-30SM in the tropos
    And in last place, there are a complete regiment of MiG-29SMT with no known destination after Kursk just got Su-30SM

    A speculation can be:
    -send to Astrakhan the complete regment of "Algerian" MiG-29SMT
    -send the 16 brand new MiG-29SMT from Astrakhan to Erebuni like all people thought in a first moment
    -Also send the 20 Su-30M2 after 2020 to Kuschevskaya to replace both 12 MiG-29UB and 8 Su-27UB
    -Then the last unit with MiG-29 will be Kubinka

    Curiously , the only confirmed unit to receive MiG-35 is the display squadron of Kubinka, and curiously it was said that 6 airplanes the first batch




    Last edited by AMCXXL on Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:00 am; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    AMCXXL

    Posts : 248
    Points : 250
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:10 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    5 years for 6 jets confused  ? Seriously ? Where are the 36 that they said they will order ?

    Armata - first 12 then 140.

    MiG-35 is out of VKS , only for display and can get export contracts

    Lukhovisty is now busy with the 46 Egypt order and Sokol is going to end with the MiG-31BM and probably is going to start with the MiG-31K for next several years and the develpment of PAK-DP (MiG-41) so I does not see any hurry for MiG-35 for the company nor for the VKS

    Maybe MiG have more luck with the MiG-35K expected for the new carriers, but this is after the plan 2018-2027
    avatar
    AMCXXL

    Posts : 248
    Points : 250
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:19 am

    Isos wrote:
    franco wrote:KUBINKA (Moscow region), Aug. 22 - RIA Novosti. The Russian Defense Ministry and MiG signed a contract to supply six new MiG-35 light fighters until 2023, the RIA Novosti correspondent reports from the signing ceremony.

    This is the first contract for the delivery of this type of aircraft. Under the agreement, the military department will receive aircraft in the modifications "UB" and "C".


    5 years for 6 jets confused  ? Seriously ? Where are the 36 that they said they will order ?


    "They said" ??? who is "they" ???

    Journalists ?? , the CEO of MIG ??

    You are outdated, the ammount of 36 or 37 was expected by MiG company before Kursk regiment got the Su-30SM and only was the desire of MiG company thinking in supply at least one combat regiment , however Ministry of Defense know very well what they are doing since the begining


    The only reference last year about the agreement of MoD with MiG company said 24 aircraft for all the new state arms program and also said as operator 6 for Kubinka
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2737394.html

    24 is the razonable ammount that is needed, one squadron for Kubinka 14-16 MiG-35 and the other 8-10 for Lípetsk/Akhtubinsk

    Kubinka is just receiving replacement of MiG-29´s just repaired and new painted from the reserve, so can work with soviet MiG´s for several more years

    I think only will be received a couple of  MiG-35 per year in 2020 or 2021 until 2023 and later other 4 or 5 per year until 2027 for complete the 24
    Other orders will be for export after the MiG-35 was tested by Russian Air Force


    Last edited by AMCXXL on Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:48 am; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12398
    Points : 12877
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:35 am

    Maybe it would be better to order 50-60 MiG-29SMT to replace some old MiGs then

    ult

    Posts : 671
    Points : 711
    Join date : 2015-02-20

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  ult on Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:28 am

    George1 wrote:Maybe it would be better to order 50-60 MiG-29SMT to replace some old MiGs then

    Older Migs and SMT's are being replaced by Su-30SM's. Like in Kursk. No need to order SMT's.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2863
    Points : 2845
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:56 am

    Sukhois overall will replace MiGs as Frontline fighters while Mikoyan will have specialized aircraft like intercepter.

    MiG-35 overall brings nothing new or better to table than what Su-30 or 35 can do. Yes, cool new tech, but still not as powerful as the other two aircrafts.
    avatar
    AMCXXL

    Posts : 248
    Points : 250
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:09 am

    George1 wrote:Maybe it would be better to order 50-60 MiG-29SMT to replace some old MiGs then

    Why? Russia already has 50 MiG-29SMT.

    Above I try explain that there is no necesary to purchase more airplanes for the second line units, in fact Rusia already done when bougth the 20 Su-30M2 of the last production or the 16 MiG-29SMT that are old airframes stored in Lukhovitsy like the 12 "Chinese" Su-27SM3 purchased in 2011

    Rigth now Russia has 5 squadrons of soviet MiG-29: Kubinka, Lípetsk, Astrakhan, Kuscheckaya and Erebuni


    The 12 MiG-29UB and the 8 Su-27UB of Kushevskaya is going to be repaced for 20 Su-30M2 after 2020, when regiments get the Su-30SM
    The two squadorns of MiG-29SMT surplus of Kursk will replace Astrakhan and Erebuni , or well go both to Astrakhan and the last 16 STM´s go to Erebuni


    Then they only need purchase MiG-35 for Kubinka and Lipestk , about 14-16 and 8-10 (thinking already there are 3 SMT/UBT in Lípetsk),
    This is just the 24 expected MiG-35. No more is necesary for the moment if there are no more new regiments of Fulcrums


    Of course also can happen that Russia AF prefer more Su-30SM Erebuni and Astrakah and discrad/sell the "Algerian" SMT´s but is no necesary more MiG-35 for the existing units

    miketheterrible wrote:Sukhois overall will replace MiGs as Frontline fighters while Mikoyan will have specialized aircraft like intercepter.

    MiG-35 overall brings nothing new or better to table than what Su-30 or 35 can do. Yes, cool new tech, but still not as powerful as the other two aircrafts.


    Of course, MiG-29SMT for second line units, MiG-35 for display and MiG-29K for Navy , that´s all
    The most MiG-35 contract will be for export to small countries that cannot handle a big and long range fighter

    I think the MiG-35K has chance for the new carriers in 10 years-12 years
    avatar
    medo

    Posts : 3400
    Points : 3484
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  medo on Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:29 pm

    This is quite strange. MiG will deliver 6 new MiG-35 to the end of this year. Is this contract for those MiG-35, which will be delivered this year or for another 6 MiG-35? It is quite strange to deliver 6 planes in 5 years. Either the date is not correct or the number of ordered planes. MiG could easily produce 60 planes in this time.

    ult

    Posts : 671
    Points : 711
    Join date : 2015-02-20

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  ult on Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:35 pm

    What's strange about it? RuAF do not see a place for them in their fleet. The order is to basically keep the project afloat for potential export contracts. The money that would go towards MiG-35 are better spent elsewhere.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2518
    Points : 2512
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:51 pm

    ult wrote:What's strange about it? RuAF do not see a place for them in their fleet. The order is to basically keep the project afloat for potential export contracts. The money that would go towards MiG-35 are better spent elsewhere.

    Not really helping to export it. Other military seeing russia buying only 6 of them, not even 12, will make them believe it is a bad jet. They should have said they don't need it because it not suited for a big country like russia and try to give some to Egypt instead of the mig-29M they ordered.
    avatar
    AMCXXL

    Posts : 248
    Points : 250
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:35 pm

    Isos wrote:
    ult wrote:What's strange about it? RuAF do not see a place for them in their fleet. The order is to basically keep the project afloat for potential export contracts. The money that would go towards MiG-35 are better spent elsewhere.

    Not really helping to export it. Other military seeing russia buying only 6 of them, not even 12, will make them believe it is a bad jet. They should have said they don't need it because it not suited for a big country like russia and try to give some to Egypt instead of the mig-29M they ordered.

    Russia dont need buy more of 6 for the momemt

    The state test with the prototypes are still not competed just begun in spring this year,then it will take at least other year or more, so in 2018 , 2019 and probably 2020 we don´t see any MiG-35 in the VKS ranks. At the end MiG-35 was out the 2011-2020 long term State arms Program
    The most probably is 2 per year in 2021 , 2022 and 2023.

    The first 6 are for Lipestk and Akhtubisnk
    After that other contract for complete the Kubinka display squadron, a good place for show to potential customers
    In total 24 announced for the period 2018-2027:
    16 Kubinka (8+8UB´s) , 6 Lípetsk (3+3UB´s) and 2 for Akhtubinsk (1+1UB)

    Pherpaps in long teem we can see if the MiG-29SMT junk could be replaced by MiG-35 and also in long term one combat regiment in North Caucasus , and of course a couple of regimets MiG-29K for the projected carriers
    avatar
    JohninMK

    Posts : 6211
    Points : 6276
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:47 pm

    Is what we are seeing, with the effective shrinking of the 'lightweight' MiG29/35 family as a proportion of the RuAF fleet, a fundamental change in the strategic realities of air defence by the Russian MoD? Where the functions of tactical, lightweight, single crew fighters are being taken over by a layered defence of missiles, making that class of aircraft redundant.

    Whilst this might be applicable in the case of Russia where the military philosophy is defence and deterrence over a vast territory where range really matters (bet the Canadians wish they could buy Flankers Smile ) it does not really apply to most of the rest of the World. As Russia wants to export as many airframes as it can and as there is still a big requirement out there for MiG-35 class aircraft it has to keep some production and use going to back up export sales and I suspect that this is a major reason why we are seeing what is happening unfold.

    I might be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see many more Mig-35 orders for Russian use.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3923
    Points : 3961
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:44 am

    JohninMK wrote: I might be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see many more Mig-35 orders for Russian use.

    IMHO they should at least to Indian tender, perhaps Algeria or Egypt can add too. Perhaps Iran after 2020... I strongly count ot this.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12398
    Points : 12877
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:24 am

    Here bmpd article says that these 6 MiG-35 are probably designed for re-equipment of the for Strizhi aerobatic team
    (it has some sense since they now have 6 old MiG-29s)

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3316363.html





    avatar
    AMCXXL

    Posts : 248
    Points : 250
    Join date : 2017-08-08

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  AMCXXL on Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:50 pm

    George1 wrote:Here bmpd article says that these 6 MiG-35 are probably designed for re-equipment of the  for Strizhi aerobatic team
    (it has some sense since they now have 6 old MiG-29s)

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3316363.html

    Next year was said:
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2737394.html

    Expert of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies Konstantin Makienko calls the purchase of the MiG-35 a "purely political act": "The aerospace forces relied on mass purchases of Su-34 , Su-30SM and Su-35S  , clearly outlining their priorities .
    In this context, the purchase of the MiG-35 for military priority is not exactly.
    Note that earlier the Air Force commander, General Andrei Yudin, said that the MiG-35 will be replaced by the Strizhi aerobatic team : thus, 6 out of 24 aircraft will go for demonstration performances

    This is not textual words, is a interpretation of journalst and probably is mstaken with the numbrer
    Why 6 ?? 6 can be the the numbrer or aircrafts when fly in acorbatic formation in the airshow, then journalist has mistaken that with the complete squadron
    Swifts is a squadron that can have up to 16 aircraft in the inventory as "Russian Knigths".
    The unit is a regiment: 237 TSPAT , this is the regiment of Moscow, also is capable for combat if necesary
    Now Russian Knigths already recived 8 Su-30SM and the next probably other 8 Su-35S , so the logical is receive 16 MiG-35 for complete the regiment, half one seat and other half two seats

    About the MiG-29 "Swifts". just this year is receiving repaired and repainted MiG-29 (different planes, from the reserve), that indicates they are not in hurry and will keept the MiG-29 in the inventary for next years

    Swifts 2018 https://russianplanes.net/id229017
    Swifts 2017 https://russianplanes.net/id218141

    Anyway , the logical is the first MiG-35 should go to Lípetsk and Akhtubisnk (for example there are 3 MiG-29SMT/UBT in Lipestk and other 3 in Akhtubinsk)

    Then, Kubinka wikk receive MiG-35 in bigger ammount, at least 4-6 each year
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2518
    Points : 2512
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:03 pm

    George1 wrote:Here bmpd article says that these 6 MiG-35 are probably designed for re-equipment of the  for Strizhi aerobatic team
    (it has some sense since they now have 6 old MiG-29s)

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3316363.html






    So many years of development to get 6 jets for aerobatic shows ...
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3923
    Points : 3961
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:06 am

    Isos wrote: So many years of development to get 6 jets for aerobatic shows ...

    because Russians have already something better in sleeve?  MiG is to me busy with

    a) Okhotnik drone
    b) MiG-41

    and likely (though I'm speculating here)

    c) new VSTOL fighter (alone or in cooperation with Yak)




    in such light MiG-35 project makes sense to test new avionics/radars or solutions and for export. With technologies. India and Iran  I hope are on the list.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12398
    Points : 12877
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:16 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Isos wrote: So many years of development to get 6 jets for aerobatic shows ...

    because Russians have already something better in sleeve?  MiG is to me busy with

    a) Okhotnik drone
    b) MiG-41

    and likely (though I'm speculating here)

    c) new VSTOL fighter (alone or in cooperation with Yak)


    and LMFS (speculating) Very Happy
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3923
    Points : 3961
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:17 am

    George1 wrote:


    c) new VSTOL fighter (alone or in cooperation with Yak)


    and LMFS  (speculating) Very Happy  

    thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup  that's actually the same jet  lol1 lol1 lol1
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2518
    Points : 2512
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:49 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Isos wrote: So many years of development to get 6 jets for aerobatic shows ...

    because Russians have already something better in sleeve?  MiG is to me busy with

    a) Okhotnik drone
    b) MiG-41

    and likely (though I'm speculating here)

    c) new VSTOL fighter (alone or in cooperation with Yak)




    in such light MiG-35 project makes sense to test new avionics/radars or solutions and for export. With technologies. India and Iran  I hope are on the list.


    Isn't the drone made by Sukhoi ?

    Mig-41 haven't started yet. At least no official statement. Same for VSTOL project. so they won't produce both of them before 15 years if not more.

    LMFS could have started since long ago but we don't know much about it.

    All the work you are talking about is done by research center while production of mig fighters is only the 50 jets for egypt and some mig 31 upgrade which is not huge amount of work.

    Again many say mig-35 is for export but mig signed a contract for mig-29M for egypt while mig 35 was almost finished. They don't seem to be worried to sell it or not. confused

    India won't buy it. Neither will Iran which already showed interest for sukhoi.

    Sponsored content

    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:25 pm