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    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:44 am

    again wrooong
    what is the difference between mig-29kr and mig-29m2?? time passes ofcourse they will make it with newish airframe simmilar to naval one its same production line. they have to retire many planes soon not 5 years ago thats why mig-29m2 wasnt built.

    SO little difference that the fact that they have already made quite a few MiG-29KRs that they could easily have made hundreds of MiG-29M2s... but they have not.

    Some people on this forum are under the impression that the MiG-35 is the MiG-29 and is therefore cheap and simple.

    I would point out that the PAK FA is in fact smaller and lighter than the Su-35... can we make the same stupid assumption that it is also cheaper and simpler than the Su-35?

    The MiG-35 is just as advanced as the Su-35 and some components as the PAK FA... the MiG-35 has build in OE systems that the PAK FA will have as external pods and the Su-35 does not have.

    The MiG-35 and Su-35 will never be as stealthy as the PAK FA, but on the plus side with external weapons carriage and inflight refuelling they can carry more further.

    Like I have said previously the Russian AF does not need an army of snipers... it needs lots of soldiers and a few snipers to support them.

    The Mig 35 and the SU 30mk are made to balance out an airforce.

    The point is that not every mission and every unit needs a supersonic long range stealth fighter/bomber. For many missions having more available weapons in a non stealth aircraft is actually an advantage... like when the enemy has a lot of aircraft.

    The MiG-35 and Su-30MK and indeed the Su-35 are all capable modern aircraft that are a fraction of the cost of a dedicated stealth aircraft... that with support and the right missiles could certainly take on an enemy with all stealth fighters with the best chance of winning.

    Ironically the Su-30M was originally a PVO project and was intended to use its larger radar to scan for targets while smaller lighter admittedly cheaper MiG-29s would operate closer to the enemy with their radar off ready to loft AAMs at the enemy and then return to base to rearm while the Sukhoi maintained position keeping track of the enemy like a mini AWACS.

    With AESA radar the MiG-35 will be able to perform that role better than the Su-30MK.

    5 years ago having a fighter enter service in Russia with an AESA would be stupid... the thousand of elements needed for one working radar would be enormously expensive and would not offer much in the way of performance that would be any better than already in service PESA radar. The cost would be enormous because the number of dud elements would be high and they cost just as much as the working units.

    Now with five years development and improvement the price per element will likely be much much lower but it is likely that they are at the point where further improvements will come more from operational experience and from production experience so making elements in large numbers is the best way forward... of course the same elements for a fighter radar will also be used in Ship based radar and the radar on naval helos and AWACS aircraft and ground platforms for SAMs etc etc... they will need to make hundreds of millions over the next decade or so, so the price will drop to a level where even MiG-29KRs will get AESA arrays.

    US customers typically buy small and nimble F-16's and some bigger F-15's to assemble their airforce.

    US customers usually do that because of limited funds... in fact many NATO customers just go for F-16s to do the air force on the cheap thing.

    The US AirForce has plenty of money and went for both the more capable larger more expensive model and the cheaper simpler smaller model... of course over time the smaller cheaper simpler model got just as expensive as the big expensive model but that is what happens when you lose focus and perspective.

    The F-35 became a jack of all trades and has gotten to complex and expensive to the point where it costs more than the big expensive plane it was supposed to supplement...

    I hope the Russians don't make the same mistake and make a light 5th gen fighter that ends up costing more than its heavier larger equivalent...

    It seems they are happy to not have an all super douper stealthy fighter fleet so far so they have kept their light fighters relatively cheap by not making them stealthy.


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    George1

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:59 pm

    First MiG-35 fighter jets to be delivered to Russia’s Defense Ministry

    The MiG-35 is Russia’s most advanced 4++-generation multipurpose fighter jet

    BANGALORE (India), February 14. /TASS/. The United Aircraft-Building Corporation (UAC) has signed a contract for the delivery of the first two advanced Mikoyan MiG-35 fighter jets to Russia’s Defense Ministry in 2017-2018, UAC President Yuri Slyusar said on Tuesday.

    "We have signed a contract for two planes [MiG-35]. It will be implemented in 2017-2018," he said at the Aero India 2017 aerospace exhibition in Bangalore.

    The MiG-35 is Russia’s most advanced 4++-generation multipurpose fighter jet developed on the basis of the serial-produced MiG-29K/KUB and MiG-29M/M2 combat aircraft.

    The fighter jet features improved flight and technical characteristics, the most advanced onboard radio-electronic equipment and a wide arsenal of air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles. The plane can develop a speed of 2.23 Mach and its operational radius exceeds the range of its predecessor MiG-29 by 50%

    The flight tests of MiG-35 fighter aircraft began on January 26 and the plane’s international presentation was held in the Moscow Region on the following day.

    Russia’s state armament program through 2020 stipulates the deliveries of MiG-35 fighter jets to Russia’s Aerospace Force. Commander-in-Chief of Russia’s Aerospace Force Viktor Bondarev said earlier that the purchases of over 30 such fighter jets were planned.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/930804


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    Austin

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Austin on Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:33 am

    Take Off Magazine Feb Issue , covers Mig-35 program

    http://en.take-off.ru/index.php/component/content/article/45/431

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:00 pm

    Interview Ilya Tarasenko, of General Director of the JSC "Russian Aircraft Corporation, the MiG

    http://echo.msk.ru/guests/819732-echo/

    Any information what he mentioned in interview , May be something on Light Fighter Program for Russian Speaking folks here ?
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    Anas Ali

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Anas Ali on Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:01 pm

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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:26 pm

    Nice !!

    Seems to be a Mig-35 and not a 29M2 like it was said in some media. Do you know if it has AESA radar or dopler ?

    Hope they will test them against Rafales and F-16s and give us results like indian did with 29 and M2000!!
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    Anas Ali

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Anas Ali on Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:38 pm

    Isos wrote:Nice !!

    Seems to be a Mig-35 and not a 29M2 like it was said in some media. Do you know if it has AESA radar or dopler ?

    Hope they will test them against Rafales and F-16s and give us results like indian did with 29 and M2000!!

    i think for now it dopler radar and they say in the near future it will get the AESA , and sure it will be tested heavily with and against Rafale and F-16
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    Anas Ali

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Anas Ali on Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:41 pm



    I love you
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    berhoum

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    Re: MiG-29 / ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: Nouvelles

    Post  berhoum on Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:16 pm

    Anas Ali wrote:
    Isos wrote:Nice !!

    Seems to be a Mig-35 and not a 29M2 like it was said in some media. Do you know if it has AESA radar or dopler ?

    Hope they will test them against Rafales and F-16s and give us results like indian did with 29 and M2000!!

    i think for now it dopler radar and they say in the near future it will get the AESA , and sure it will be tested heavily with and against Rafale and F-16

    Good evening I would like to know mig 29 or 35 he says to himself anything on to forum  affraid Thank you
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    Anas Ali

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Anas Ali on Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:53 am

    berhoum wrote:
    Anas Ali wrote:
    Isos wrote:Nice !!

    Seems to be a Mig-35 and not a 29M2 like it was said in some media. Do you know if it has AESA radar or dopler ?

    Hope they will test them against Rafales and F-16s and give us results like indian did with 29 and M2000!!

    i think for now it dopler radar and they say in the near future it will get the AESA , and sure it will be tested heavily with and against Rafale and F-16

    Good evening I would like to know mig 29 or 35 he says to himself anything on to forum  affraid Thank you

    mig-35
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    berhoum

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  berhoum on Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:31 pm

    Hello What is the difference between Mig-29 M/M2 and Mig-35?  Shocked
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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:40 pm


    marcellogo

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  marcellogo on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:10 pm

    berhoum wrote:Hello What is the difference between Mig-29 M/M2 and Mig-35?  Shocked

    Not much really: just the integral FLIR/targeting system on the engine pods are there for sure, the rest is still uncertain.
    Actually all the new ones land version produced would have the denomination MiG-35 for what I have understood..
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    franco

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  franco on Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:20 am

    berhoum wrote:Hello What is the difference between Mig-29 M/M2 and Mig-35?  Shocked

    Mig-29M is latest and probably last version of the Mig-29. Russians are claiming the Mig-35 turned out to be a totally different aircraft. Or so they claim.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:07 am

    franco wrote:
    berhoum wrote:Hello What is the difference between Mig-29 M/M2 and Mig-35?  Shocked

    Mig-29M is latest and probably last version of the Mig-29. Russians are claiming the Mig-35 turned out to be a totally different aircraft. Or so they claim.  

    From what i can tell the difference between the Mig-29M and Mig-35 is a brand new radar one variant of which is using GaN photonics, new engines a variant of which has thrust vectoring, the new OLS-35 2 of them one for Air-to-Air and one for air-to-ground, and some improvement in avionics, and better max take-off weight.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:09 am

    It is supposed to get the new radar, which apparently isn't in production yet.
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:54 am

    The MiG-29M2 and Mig-35 use the same airframe, but otherwise the MiG-29M2 uses cheaper simpler internal components, while the MiG-35 uses the best they can manage in every department including AESA radar and optronic DAS and EW defensive suite.

    MiG-29M2 is a 4++ fighter and MiG-35 is a -5 fighter in the sense that an Su-35 is a -5 fighter.

    Note a -5 fighter is a 5th gen stealth fighter that is not stealthy, but has early 5th gen avionics and equipment.


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    berhoum

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  berhoum on Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:12 pm

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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:04 pm

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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:02 am

    Note if they are calling it a MiG-35 then it will eventually have an AESA radar... it might not get them initially until they are ready for mass production.

    It is not just a question of getting the price down, there will be a percentage of dud modules in every batch they make... as they get better at it and improve production the number of duds will go down along with the price per module... they will need to make hundreds of millions of these modules as they will be everywhere from fighter aircraft radars to enormous arrays for ground and sea based SAM systems, and even on UAVs and even tanks and attack helos.


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    nemrod

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  nemrod on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:Note if they are calling it a MiG-35 then it will eventually have an AESA radar... it might not get them initially until they are ready for mass production.

    Contrary to what it is said, Iam not sure that an AESA radar is basically a greater advantage than PESA. If it was a real asset, Russia might installed inside the SU-35, and SU-30, and Mig-33 instead of for example IRBIS-E. The Mig-31 BM is the backbone of Russian Air Force, and untill now, this strategic asset does not have an AESA radar. In my view it is for very good reason. The advantage provided by AESA is not enough significant.
    Notice that Russia was able to produce AESA radars for a long time, maybe before the japanese  J/APG-1. The problems in that time, Russia lacked of funds.
    Moreover, the Mig-35 should be seen as a real revolution because it will integrate the Laser weapons, nullyffing all advantages provided by air-to-air missiles.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:37 pm

    nemrod wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Note if they are calling it a MiG-35 then it will eventually have an AESA radar... it might not get them initially until they are ready for mass production.

    Contrary to what it is said, Iam not sure that an AESA radar is basically a greater advantage than PESA. If it was a real asset, Russia might installed inside the SU-35, and SU-30, and Mig-33 instead of for example IRBIS-E. The Mig-31 BM is the backbone of Russian Air Force, and untill now, this strategic asset does not have an AESA radar. In my view it is for very good reason. The advantage provided by AESA is not enough significant.
    Notice that Russia was able to produce AESA radars for a long time, maybe before the japanese  J/APG-1. The problems in that time, Russia lacked of funds.
    Moreover, the Mig-35 should be seen as a real revolution because it will integrate the Laser weapons, nullyffing all advantages provided by air-to-air missiles.

    They radar being put ing Mig-35 is a doppler for now. Its not even PESA. But I think if you ordered it with AESA they can produce it by buing module to Taiwan.

    IRBIS-E is all in raw power to detect stealth.
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    nemrod

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  nemrod on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:46 pm

    Isos wrote: ...AESA they can produce it by buing module to Taiwan.

    U are joking I hope!....
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 02, 2017 6:16 am

    They are producing their own modules, but production rates would need to build up to useful levels and testing would need to be complete before putting it into production.

    The first modules will be hundreds of dollars each, but with improvements in production and experience the cost should drop dramatically to a few dollars per module.

    More importantly the number of duds will reduce too.

    the main drawbacks of AESA radars are cost, heat generation, and power requirements... all three problems can be dealt with.


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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Tue May 02, 2017 12:17 pm


    the main drawbacks of AESA radars are cost, heat generation, and power requirements... all three problems can be dealt with

    The main advantage is to transform an interceptor fighter like the Mig-29 into a modern multi function fighter. Without AESA it won't be competitive against last fighters produced as the modern RWR can detect doppler radar pretty easily and even allow missile lunch without turning on their own radar. Their was an article (It wasn't official however) about exercice between Rafale and F-22 where it was said that F-22 managed to lunch it's long range missile without turning on its radar, just by using it's elec warefare equipement. And Rafale's radar was PESA !!

    They designed also a bigger AESA for Sukhoi family on the same basis as the Zhuk for Mig-35 if I'm not wrong. And with the introduction of R-77M (200km range) it would be an all new air force for Russia.

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