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    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:54 am

    The MiG-29M2 and Mig-35 use the same airframe, but otherwise the MiG-29M2 uses cheaper simpler internal components, while the MiG-35 uses the best they can manage in every department including AESA radar and optronic DAS and EW defensive suite.

    MiG-29M2 is a 4++ fighter and MiG-35 is a -5 fighter in the sense that an Su-35 is a -5 fighter.

    Note a -5 fighter is a 5th gen stealth fighter that is not stealthy, but has early 5th gen avionics and equipment.


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    berhoum

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  berhoum on Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:12 pm

    hello/ thank you for your explanations on top  russia
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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:04 pm

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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:02 am

    Note if they are calling it a MiG-35 then it will eventually have an AESA radar... it might not get them initially until they are ready for mass production.

    It is not just a question of getting the price down, there will be a percentage of dud modules in every batch they make... as they get better at it and improve production the number of duds will go down along with the price per module... they will need to make hundreds of millions of these modules as they will be everywhere from fighter aircraft radars to enormous arrays for ground and sea based SAM systems, and even on UAVs and even tanks and attack helos.


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    nemrod

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  nemrod on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:Note if they are calling it a MiG-35 then it will eventually have an AESA radar... it might not get them initially until they are ready for mass production.

    Contrary to what it is said, Iam not sure that an AESA radar is basically a greater advantage than PESA. If it was a real asset, Russia might installed inside the SU-35, and SU-30, and Mig-33 instead of for example IRBIS-E. The Mig-31 BM is the backbone of Russian Air Force, and untill now, this strategic asset does not have an AESA radar. In my view it is for very good reason. The advantage provided by AESA is not enough significant.
    Notice that Russia was able to produce AESA radars for a long time, maybe before the japanese  J/APG-1. The problems in that time, Russia lacked of funds.
    Moreover, the Mig-35 should be seen as a real revolution because it will integrate the Laser weapons, nullyffing all advantages provided by air-to-air missiles.
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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:37 pm

    nemrod wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Note if they are calling it a MiG-35 then it will eventually have an AESA radar... it might not get them initially until they are ready for mass production.

    Contrary to what it is said, Iam not sure that an AESA radar is basically a greater advantage than PESA. If it was a real asset, Russia might installed inside the SU-35, and SU-30, and Mig-33 instead of for example IRBIS-E. The Mig-31 BM is the backbone of Russian Air Force, and untill now, this strategic asset does not have an AESA radar. In my view it is for very good reason. The advantage provided by AESA is not enough significant.
    Notice that Russia was able to produce AESA radars for a long time, maybe before the japanese  J/APG-1. The problems in that time, Russia lacked of funds.
    Moreover, the Mig-35 should be seen as a real revolution because it will integrate the Laser weapons, nullyffing all advantages provided by air-to-air missiles.

    They radar being put ing Mig-35 is a doppler for now. Its not even PESA. But I think if you ordered it with AESA they can produce it by buing module to Taiwan.

    IRBIS-E is all in raw power to detect stealth.
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    nemrod

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  nemrod on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:46 pm

    Isos wrote: ...AESA they can produce it by buing module to Taiwan.

    U are joking I hope!....
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue May 02, 2017 6:16 am

    They are producing their own modules, but production rates would need to build up to useful levels and testing would need to be complete before putting it into production.

    The first modules will be hundreds of dollars each, but with improvements in production and experience the cost should drop dramatically to a few dollars per module.

    More importantly the number of duds will reduce too.

    the main drawbacks of AESA radars are cost, heat generation, and power requirements... all three problems can be dealt with.


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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Tue May 02, 2017 12:17 pm


    the main drawbacks of AESA radars are cost, heat generation, and power requirements... all three problems can be dealt with

    The main advantage is to transform an interceptor fighter like the Mig-29 into a modern multi function fighter. Without AESA it won't be competitive against last fighters produced as the modern RWR can detect doppler radar pretty easily and even allow missile lunch without turning on their own radar. Their was an article (It wasn't official however) about exercice between Rafale and F-22 where it was said that F-22 managed to lunch it's long range missile without turning on its radar, just by using it's elec warefare equipement. And Rafale's radar was PESA !!

    They designed also a bigger AESA for Sukhoi family on the same basis as the Zhuk for Mig-35 if I'm not wrong. And with the introduction of R-77M (200km range) it would be an all new air force for Russia.
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    nemrod

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  nemrod on Tue May 02, 2017 1:15 pm

    Isos wrote: Their was an article (It wasn't oficial however) about exercice between Rafale and F-22 where it was said that F-22 managed to lunch it's long range missile without turning on its radar, just by using it's elec warefare equipement. And Rafale's radar was PESA !!


    Do not believe all you heard from western media. I do not doubt that AESA could be an asset, could be but does not mean  necessarily it is the truth. The Irst sensors embedded by the Rafale, as the Typhoon -Pirate- and Mig-29/35 can detect a plane at 90 km, a missile launched at more than 100 km. In anyway the Rafale must detect every air to air missile launched against him. The F-22 is in fact a total faillure regarding air-air combat. The radar is a myth, like invulnerable tank, once you launch an anti tank missile, or rocket the tank burns.
    See piacard's blog, he explains this very well.
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    Rmf

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Rmf on Tue May 02, 2017 8:07 pm

    its a mediocre fighter at best, and a step back for mig and russian aerospace forses , i hope they dont induct it, http://www.popsci.com/j-31-stealth-fighter-improved-prototype - this is the way new mig should have looked like , its even rd-33 powered , a joint venture with chinese like Usa its doing with its nato allies, it would be finished much sooner , much cheaper , and it would bring better cooperation and technological upscaling of russian fighter component.
    this "new" is typical of russians, they make new , improved old ,and keep old , that way maintanance and expenses are huge.
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 03, 2017 11:38 am

    Any aircraft with its radar turned to a listening mode can detect the emissions of another aircrafts radar and follow the movements of that aircraft... an AMRAAM or R-77 does not need an illuminated target to launch... just an interception area can be used to launch a missile to bring it within range so the missiles own radar can lock and engage.

    The MiG-29 was an excellent fighter aircraft who had the misfortune to have been compromised by German aircraft being used for testing and training NATO pilots in the 1990s.

    During the 1980s it was all about dogfighting because western pilots were so well trained and Soviet pilots were drones with basic primitive aircraft and ineffective missiles.

    The 1990s revealed that the MiG-29 was as capable as any western fighter of the period and superior to all with its helmet mounted targeting sight and R-73 air to air missile.

    The west learned to fight the aircraft... which basically consisted of the tactics of don't get within visual range and use AMRAAM before he sees you. Use AWACS to position yourself for a shot from a position where you can run away if you need to.

    Maintainence issues were sorted in the MiG-29SMT upgrade where testing and training modes allowed much better fault finding and in the line testing to be undertaken. 40% cheaper to operate was one claim regarding the new systems.

    Do you really think 5th gen type systems they are fitting to the MiG-35 are high maintainence?

    Of course after getting all its secrets the west now acts like the MiG-29 is nothing even though they only ever trained against a very basic version with poor avionics and very old model missiles.

    Of course they still needed Typhoon because there were Flankers but the MiG was no longer something to be worried about. And that is why I think they should make them because the very low western opinion of the aircraft family will bite them in the ass if they ever actually come up against some for real... ones that have been properly maintained and have modern missiles etc.


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri May 05, 2017 8:42 pm

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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Fri May 05, 2017 11:54 pm

    The 1990s revealed that the MiG-29 was as capable as any western fighter of the period and superior to all with its helmet mounted targeting sight and R-73 air to air missile.

    The west learned to fight the aircraft... which basically consisted of the tactics of don't get within visual range and use AMRAAM before he sees you. Use AWACS to position yourself for a shot from a position where you can run away if you need to.

    Mig learned more than them from to these western tests of the 29 and knew what they should upgrade. Now SMT and 35 have corrected all 29s "mistakes" like range, radar, smockless engines , ecm, fly by wire. In BVR an SMT or 35 has its chances against f-16/15, specialy with the last aesa develop for them with 260 km range.

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  HM1199 on Sat May 06, 2017 12:21 pm

    well Mig 29/35 platforms are like a sandwich it's up to how well did you stuff it , there are many systems offered.
    For instance with Zhuk AMeH and good ecm it'll be a solid jet.

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Austin on Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:10 am

    MiG-35 in trials

    en.take-off.ru/pdf_to/to41.pdf
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:00 am

    https://vpk.name/news/185205_na_poroge__258_mig35.html

    On the threshold - 258 MiG-35
    MiG-35 would enter service with the Russian air force in 2019, according to the "Military Parity" with reference to the ydn.com.tw (25 June).

    Although this plane was missing at the Paris air show in 2017, the company RSK MiG says that the car will be presented at the exhibition MAKS-2017 in Russia (July this year).

    The company claims that the MiG-35 is a fighter with the technologies of the fifth generation on the basis of the fourth generation aircraft and corresponds to the generation 4.5. The visibility of the machine in the radar range is reduced, there is the possibility of equipping the radar with active phased array, the thrust of the power plant (two RD-33MK engines) increased by 12%, the aircraft can lift 7 tons of payload.

    Press Secretary of RSK MiG Anastasia Kravchenko said that the aircraft is fit for deployment in "harsh conditions" capable of being cropped off and landing, can be stored under open sky for several months, the replacement engine can be performed directly at the airport in just 58 minutes.

    Probably, the Russian air force will become the first operator of this aircraft. Expected to be ordered the first 37 aircraft, the final number may reach 258 vehicles - if will be a complete replacement MiG-29 fleet for aircraft of this modification. In addition, the MiG-35 has significant export potential - more than 30 countries bought the MiG-29 replacement which is inevitable.

    Reporters asked Kravchenko, the company carries out the development of a fifth generation fighter, what the press Secretary said that "the RSK MiG has plans for the future," but refused to voice even the common technical requirements for this fighter.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:02 am

    Also, a bit older news from the 23rd, but interesting:

    https://vpk.name/news/185056_mig35_vks_poluchat_sverhmanevrennyii_istrebitel_s_noveishim_bortovyim_oborudovaniem.html

    MiG-35: HQs get air-superiority fighter with advanced avionics
    TSAMTO, June 22. Defense Ministry and United aircraft Corporation (UAC) determines the final shape of the newest super-maneuverable lightweight fighter MiG-35, write "news".

    According to the newspaper, at the request of the military machine needs to engines with thrust vectoring (CET), new sighting and navigation system and radar with a phased antenna array (AFAR).

    As the paper notes, the presentation of the new MiG-35 was held in January of this year in Lukhovitsy. Russian and foreign military for the first time showed a pre-production sample of the machine.

    In defense of "news" reported that at the present time with the UAC and RAC "MiG" is to develop a shape variant of the MiG-35 for the Air-space forces of Russia. The work is in the stage of negotiations. But it is already known that the car will stand the RD-33MK engines with thrust vectoring. There is also new radar "Zhuk-A" from AFAR, which in the base case no.

    As has declared "news" in a press-service of the KLA, the Corporation works closely with the Ministry of defense. All the requirements for a new fighter will be fully implemented and executed.

    In may of this year VC commander in chief Viktor Bondarev said that the entire fleet of light fighters will be replaced by MiG-35. According to the commander, the aircraft will solve the problem of defeating air and ground targets. In the future can be used in local conflicts such as the Syrian. On the newest fighter even appear laser weapon, said Viktor Bondarev, without providing details. At the same time Vice-President on innovations of UAC Sergey Korotkov stated that the contract for the supply of troops in the multi-role fighter of "4++" generation MiG-35 will be signed after the completion of state tests and will enter a new state armaments program, write "Izvestia".

    So it looks like the MiG-35 for Russia is to be equipped with AESA and 3D thrust vectoring engines for sure.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:25 am

    https://vpk.name/news/186312_pervyii_predseriinyii_obrazec_radara_s_aktivnoi_fazirovannoi_reshetkoi_dlya_mig35_planiruetsya_sozdat_do_konca_goda.html

    Now they "may" get AESA Radar.

    Something is strange about this whole thing.
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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:49 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:https://vpk.name/news/186312_pervyii_predseriinyii_obrazec_radara_s_aktivnoi_fazirovannoi_reshetkoi_dlya_mig35_planiruetsya_sozdat_do_konca_goda.html

    Now they "may" get AESA Radar.

    Something is strange about this whole thing.

    This propaganda is more and more stupid. At the begging of the year they said they developed a radar with 260km range for Mig-35, they said they were working on the Zhuk-35 3D since some years and now they are saying they will develop from 0 a new radar (If my online translation is good). They should fire all the marketing staff at Mig. They don't even knnow what they are talking about. No surprise they don't sell fighters with such incoherences in their words, they are making the 35 like a 29SMT.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:38 pm

    No, translation is off but they are saying "not like we are starting from zero" meaning that little input is needed since they already had functioning AESA.

    But yes, there is no need for MiG-35 since it is a MiG-29SMT with few bells and whistles but missing essential.

    They are saying the pre production AESA will be ready end of this year and they will get the mod to test it to see if they want it.

    So there may be some translation issues going on.
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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:42 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:No, translation is off but they are saying "not like we are starting from zero" meaning that little input is needed since they already had functioning AESA.

    But yes, there is no need for MiG-35 since it is a MiG-29SMT with few bells and whistles but missing essential.

    They are saying the pre production AESA will be ready end of this year and they will get the mod to test it to see if they want it.

    So there may be some translation issues going on.

    Ok so my translation was awfull. But that doesn't change anything, the marketing of the Mig-35 is total bullshit and the fact that they didn't come from the first presentation with the AESA will have a big impact on its export potential. I was myself thinking it's a new fighter that could be bought by small airforces and be able to compete against last fighter (4.5 gene and maybe 5). But now there are more and more evidences that this is just an 29SMT.

    If they don't sell this with an AESA 260 km range (120 km vs 5² for SMT's radar) no one will buy it. Even russian air force could reject it if the radar is not new and has limited capabilities.

    What's weired is that they already tested their AESA radar on the prototypes (their are even photos of it mounted in the nose of the fighter). I don't think it's a problem of production or technology but acording to me they put all their ressources in the Pak fa and other Sukhoi. Now that Egypt ordered 50 of them they can run their factories for some years and don't care about the future of Mig-35, Russia ordered just 30 of them (we don't even know if it's the 35 or SMT as it was the case with Egypt signing at the end for 50 SMT like fighters and not 35). Russia will ask Mig to put more effort in the strategic Mig-41 than the export model Mig-35 (without a big internationnal market) and now that their is the agreement with EAU for a 5 gene fighter I think the Mig-35 is a dead fighter. Russia will probably go for this too.

    It would be intersting to see what they think about their Mig-29SMT.
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:26 am

    Geez Lsos... what makes you think Russia will OK the selling of AESA radars to just anyone?

    Remind be but was the first Typhoon fully functional and fully capable? I understood it didn't even have air to ground capability till about the 3rd tranche... the 3rd upgrade.

    The First F-22 had no air to ground capability either.

    Even with a non AESA radar the MiG-35 can engage ground and air targets and is fully multi role... suggesting it needs an AESA radar to be any good is just bullshit.

    The F-35 has an AESA... are you suggesting it has no problems?

    Part of its enormous cost is its radar.

    Suffocate any pilots recently?

    Just because they have tested the AESA radar and it works does not mean they are ready for full scale production of its modules... there might be new modules they are waiting to mature before they produce them in numbers.

    Countries are not dumb... do you think it would be better to buy a Chinese upgrade of a MiG-21 with an AESA radar or buy a MiG-35 with a non AESA radar initially and to add an AESA later... are you really that short sighted?


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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:53 am

    Well, there are a lot of complications to this debate.

    While Zhuk-A was shown back in the Indian tender, there has been a lot of changes to the T/R modules for AESA in Russia.  They effectively made AESA GaAS modules with 15w instead of standard 10w and much smaller so they can fit more.  That is why they have abandoned the standard Zhuk-A in favor of the Zhuk-AM and AME.  I suppose this is the radar they are aiming for, because the Zhuk-M is quite old.  Mind you, Zhuk-M still has some impressive capabilities for a small radar, it will not suffice for the future and that is what the MiG-35 is supposed to be.  So choosing the Zhuk-M is more of an interim thing since it is already used and will probably just get replaced.  Initially, the demand was for the AESA radar as per MoD.

    The MiG-35 does have an impressive defense suite as well as optical structure used even from space based equipment.  So it does have a far better multiroll capability than most Sukhois.  Problem is, once again, its Radar.  But like the Rafale, it may take a while for AESA.

    There is also the fact that Kret is working on photonic aesa radar modules (ROFAR) and it will be prototype in 2018 and production near 2020.
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    George1

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:43 am

    Russia’s advanced MiG-35 fighter jet to go into serial production in 2019

    The flight tests of MiG-35 fighter aircraft began on January 26

    LUKHOVITSY (Moscow Region), July 14. /TASS/. The serial production of Russia’s advanced Mikoyan MiG-35 (NATO reporting name: Fulcrum-F) fighter jet will begin within the next two years, MiG Aircraft Corporation CEO Ilya Tarasenko said on Friday.

    "We are now holding the trials. Following their results, serial production will begin," the chief executive said, adding that this would happen in the next two years.

    The MiG-35 is Russia’s most advanced 4++ generation multipurpose fighter jet developed on the basis of the serial-produced MiG-29K/KUB and MiG-29M/M2 combat aircraft.

    The fighter jet features improved flight and technical characteristics, the most advanced onboard radio-electronic equipment and a wide arsenal of air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles. The plane can develop a speed of 2.23 Mach and its operational radius exceeds the range of its predecessor MiG-29 by 50%

    The flight tests of MiG-35 fighter aircraft began on January 26 and the plane’s international presentation was held in the Moscow Region on the following day.

    Russia’s state armament program through 2020 stipulates the deliveries of MiG-35 fighter jets to Russia’s Aerospace Force. Commander-in-Chief of Russia’s Aerospace Force Viktor Bondarev said earlier that the purchases of over 30 such fighter jets were planned.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/956310


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