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    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:27 am

    he has a point- it is a mig-29 with as solid capability as possible for lowest price possible

    No he does not.

    The MiG-35 is a MiG-29A like an F-16A is a F-16C Block 52.

    Very little is the same.

    The MiG-29A is a short range point defence interceptor with two BVR missiles and four short range AAMs. It could not even carry the extended range R-27E model Alamos... It carried two R-27R SARH AAMs and originally four R-60MKs and later four R-73s... and dumb bombs and dumb rockets and a 30mm cannon and that was all.

    Most of the countries that could afford to buy MiG-29s were in eastern europe and would not likely buy any model MiG today.

    Countries like Egypt and Iraq and Syria and Iran might buy some, but the market wont be huge... though the Russian AF buying some might help quite a bit.

    Equally the Aerospace defence forces might buy a few as well just to defend their airfields.


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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:39 am

    Majority of the structure of MiG-35 is composite. So it is only same in shape of aircraft/design. But overall, not the same aircraft.
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    Rmf

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:09 am

    GarryB wrote:
    he has a point- it is a mig-29 with as solid capability as possible for lowest price possible

    No he does not.

    The MiG-35 is a MiG-29A like an F-16A is a F-16C Block 52.

    Very little is the same.

    The MiG-29A is a short range point defence interceptor with two BVR missiles and four short range AAMs. It could not even carry the extended range R-27E model Alamos... It carried two R-27R SARH AAMs and originally four R-60MKs and later four R-73s... and dumb bombs and dumb rockets and a 30mm cannon and that was all.

    Most of the countries that could afford to buy MiG-29s were in eastern europe and would not likely buy any model MiG today.

    Countries like Egypt and Iraq and Syria and Iran might buy some, but the market wont be huge... though the Russian AF buying some might help quite a bit.

    Equally the Aerospace defence forces might buy a few as well just to defend their airfields.

    yes he does , you are really making a fool of yourself in this tread, read again and again untill it sinks --as solid capability as cheaply as possible, more fuel and some structural changes+ already multimode (multirole) slotted aray radar from mig-29k  are cheapest and easiest to implement , it doesnt have aesa , vectored thrust ,rd-33mkm, etc...
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:58 pm

    HM1199 wrote:by the way guys russian T/R modules made by ISTOC have a noise figure of 1.4 db , while according to raytheon ,they acheived 3 db , does that mean we have a proof that istoc modules are better in that area?

    I think it simply means that the raytheon stopped any design activity on the PESA radars, and to be able to sell the AESA it still quoting the 20 years old PEAS parameters in the advertising materials.
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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:13 pm


    yes he does , you are really making a fool of yourself in this tread, read again and again untill it sinks --as solid capability as cheaply as possible, more fuel and some structural changes+ already multimode (multirole) slotted aray radar from mig-29k are cheapest and easiest to implement , it doesnt have aesa , vectored thrust ,rd-33mkm, etc...

    The idea was a cheap simple Mig-29 and a very good and more expensive Su-27. At the end the reality was that both Aircraft were expensive and the cost of last Mig series were at the price than Sukhois.

    You suggestion of a cheap mig-35 is totaly wrong. The Mig-35 is meant for countries like Bielorussia were a Su-27 is too big for patroling in a small area. The philosophy of the 2 Aircrafts is different, and the Mig-35 is made for countries which want to protect their country and not a big one to Attack 2000km from their borders.
    Iran is more likely to buy Su-30 and maybe Pak Fa as it's a pretty big country.
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:53 am

    yes he does , you are really making a fool of yourself in this tread, read again and again untill it sinks --as solid capability as cheaply as possible, more fuel and some structural changes+ already multimode (multirole) slotted aray radar from mig-29k are cheapest and easiest to implement , it doesnt have aesa , vectored thrust ,rd-33mkm, etc...

    No he doesn't.

    If he was right and they did just want a cheap gap filler then they could have ordered MiG-29M2s five years ago and had hundreds of them in service by now.

    The MiG-29KR is a gap filler... they had Su-33s which they did not spend money on to upgrade to Su-33KUB which would have made them rather capable multirole aircraft. They bought the MiG-29KRs because they were already in production for India and were therefore cheaper to order than any variant of the Flanker because production and tooling were already paid for by the Indian orders.

    The Naval Fulcrums are not getting AESA or expensive bits and pieces because in 5 years time they will be making PAK FA naval models for their new carriers.

    As the price of AESA radars comes down they might get then added as an upgrade but for the moment the MiG-29KR is already good enough for the job.

    For the Air Force they have plenty of money and rather than just going for cheap... ie Su-30M variants, they have been spending on the further upgraded models like the Su-34 and the Su-35 and now they are going to spend on the MiG-35. They could have gone cheap and simple if they wanted to but they did not... just the same with Army Aviation helos... the Mi-28NM and Ka-52 are both being fitted with radars... note the US Army Apaches... only one in five actually have the radar fitted because of the cost....

    The idea was a cheap simple Mig-29 and a very good and more expensive Su-27. At the end the reality was that both Aircraft were expensive and the cost of last Mig series were at the price than Sukhois.

    There was never any requirement for a smaller cheaper fighter and a large more expensive fighter.

    The MiG-29 replaced the MiG-21 in the point defence short to medium range fighter role, while the Su-27 replaced the MiG-23 longer range patrol fighter interceptor. In many ways it also replaced a lot of the old Sukhoi interceptors like the Su-11 and Su-15.

    The T-72 was a simplified cheaper tank that was easy to make in large numbers with reasonable armour and a good gun.

    There was no equivalent in fighters however... otherwise the MiG would probably have had one engine and have been rather smaller and likely would not have had an IRST.


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    Rmf

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Rmf on Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:29 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    yes he does , you are really making a fool of yourself in this tread, read again and again untill it sinks --as solid capability as cheaply as possible, more fuel and some structural changes+ already multimode (multirole) slotted aray radar from mig-29k  are cheapest and easiest to implement , it doesnt have aesa , vectored thrust ,rd-33mkm, etc...

    No he doesn't.

    If he was right and they did just want a cheap gap filler then they could have ordered MiG-29M2s five years ago and had hundreds of them in service by now.

    The MiG-29KR is a gap filler... they had Su-33s which they did not spend money on to upgrade to Su-33KUB which would have made them rather capable multirole aircraft. They bought the MiG-29KRs because they were already in production for India and were therefore cheaper to order than any variant of the Flanker because production and tooling were already paid for by the Indian orders.

    The Naval Fulcrums are not getting AESA or expensive bits and pieces because in 5 years time they will be making PAK FA naval models for their new carriers.

    As the price of AESA radars comes down they might get then added as an upgrade but for the moment the MiG-29KR is already good enough for the job..
    again wrooong
    what is the difference between mig-29kr and mig-29m2?? time passes ofcourse they will make it with newish airframe simmilar to naval one its same production line. they have to retire many planes soon not 5 years ago thats why mig-29m2 wasnt built.
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    Rmf

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Rmf on Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:05 pm



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    Pierre Sprey

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Pierre Sprey on Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:45 am

    Isos wrote:

    yes he does , you are really making a fool of yourself in this tread, read again and again untill it sinks --as solid capability as cheaply as possible, more fuel and some structural changes+ already multimode (multirole) slotted aray radar from mig-29k  are cheapest and easiest to implement , it doesnt have aesa , vectored thrust ,rd-33mkm, etc...

    The idea was a cheap simple Mig-29 and a very good and more expensive Su-27. At the end the reality was that both Aircraft were expensive and the cost of last Mig series were at the price than Sukhois.

    You suggestion of a cheap mig-35 is totaly wrong. The Mig-35 is meant for countries like Bielorussia were a Su-27 is too big for patroling in a small area. The philosophy of the 2 Aircrafts is different, and the Mig-35 is made for countries which want to protect their country and not a big one to Attack 2000km from their borders.
    Iran is more likely to buy Su-30 and maybe Pak Fa as it's a pretty big country.

    The Mig 35 and the SU 30mk are made to balance out an airforce.

    US customers typically buy small and nimble F-16's and some bigger F-15's to assemble their airforce. The Migs and SU's are no different. Ideally, if the country is serious about having a competative airforce, they will want to have both the Mig and the SU in their stable.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:44 am

    again wrooong
    what is the difference between mig-29kr and mig-29m2?? time passes ofcourse they will make it with newish airframe simmilar to naval one its same production line. they have to retire many planes soon not 5 years ago thats why mig-29m2 wasnt built.

    SO little difference that the fact that they have already made quite a few MiG-29KRs that they could easily have made hundreds of MiG-29M2s... but they have not.

    Some people on this forum are under the impression that the MiG-35 is the MiG-29 and is therefore cheap and simple.

    I would point out that the PAK FA is in fact smaller and lighter than the Su-35... can we make the same stupid assumption that it is also cheaper and simpler than the Su-35?

    The MiG-35 is just as advanced as the Su-35 and some components as the PAK FA... the MiG-35 has build in OE systems that the PAK FA will have as external pods and the Su-35 does not have.

    The MiG-35 and Su-35 will never be as stealthy as the PAK FA, but on the plus side with external weapons carriage and inflight refuelling they can carry more further.

    Like I have said previously the Russian AF does not need an army of snipers... it needs lots of soldiers and a few snipers to support them.

    The Mig 35 and the SU 30mk are made to balance out an airforce.

    The point is that not every mission and every unit needs a supersonic long range stealth fighter/bomber. For many missions having more available weapons in a non stealth aircraft is actually an advantage... like when the enemy has a lot of aircraft.

    The MiG-35 and Su-30MK and indeed the Su-35 are all capable modern aircraft that are a fraction of the cost of a dedicated stealth aircraft... that with support and the right missiles could certainly take on an enemy with all stealth fighters with the best chance of winning.

    Ironically the Su-30M was originally a PVO project and was intended to use its larger radar to scan for targets while smaller lighter admittedly cheaper MiG-29s would operate closer to the enemy with their radar off ready to loft AAMs at the enemy and then return to base to rearm while the Sukhoi maintained position keeping track of the enemy like a mini AWACS.

    With AESA radar the MiG-35 will be able to perform that role better than the Su-30MK.

    5 years ago having a fighter enter service in Russia with an AESA would be stupid... the thousand of elements needed for one working radar would be enormously expensive and would not offer much in the way of performance that would be any better than already in service PESA radar. The cost would be enormous because the number of dud elements would be high and they cost just as much as the working units.

    Now with five years development and improvement the price per element will likely be much much lower but it is likely that they are at the point where further improvements will come more from operational experience and from production experience so making elements in large numbers is the best way forward... of course the same elements for a fighter radar will also be used in Ship based radar and the radar on naval helos and AWACS aircraft and ground platforms for SAMs etc etc... they will need to make hundreds of millions over the next decade or so, so the price will drop to a level where even MiG-29KRs will get AESA arrays.

    US customers typically buy small and nimble F-16's and some bigger F-15's to assemble their airforce.

    US customers usually do that because of limited funds... in fact many NATO customers just go for F-16s to do the air force on the cheap thing.

    The US AirForce has plenty of money and went for both the more capable larger more expensive model and the cheaper simpler smaller model... of course over time the smaller cheaper simpler model got just as expensive as the big expensive model but that is what happens when you lose focus and perspective.

    The F-35 became a jack of all trades and has gotten to complex and expensive to the point where it costs more than the big expensive plane it was supposed to supplement...

    I hope the Russians don't make the same mistake and make a light 5th gen fighter that ends up costing more than its heavier larger equivalent...

    It seems they are happy to not have an all super douper stealthy fighter fleet so far so they have kept their light fighters relatively cheap by not making them stealthy.


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    George1

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:59 pm

    First MiG-35 fighter jets to be delivered to Russia’s Defense Ministry

    The MiG-35 is Russia’s most advanced 4++-generation multipurpose fighter jet

    BANGALORE (India), February 14. /TASS/. The United Aircraft-Building Corporation (UAC) has signed a contract for the delivery of the first two advanced Mikoyan MiG-35 fighter jets to Russia’s Defense Ministry in 2017-2018, UAC President Yuri Slyusar said on Tuesday.

    "We have signed a contract for two planes [MiG-35]. It will be implemented in 2017-2018," he said at the Aero India 2017 aerospace exhibition in Bangalore.

    The MiG-35 is Russia’s most advanced 4++-generation multipurpose fighter jet developed on the basis of the serial-produced MiG-29K/KUB and MiG-29M/M2 combat aircraft.

    The fighter jet features improved flight and technical characteristics, the most advanced onboard radio-electronic equipment and a wide arsenal of air-to-air and air-to-surface missiles. The plane can develop a speed of 2.23 Mach and its operational radius exceeds the range of its predecessor MiG-29 by 50%

    The flight tests of MiG-35 fighter aircraft began on January 26 and the plane’s international presentation was held in the Moscow Region on the following day.

    Russia’s state armament program through 2020 stipulates the deliveries of MiG-35 fighter jets to Russia’s Aerospace Force. Commander-in-Chief of Russia’s Aerospace Force Viktor Bondarev said earlier that the purchases of over 30 such fighter jets were planned.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/930804


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    Austin

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Austin on Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:33 am

    Take Off Magazine Feb Issue , covers Mig-35 program

    http://en.take-off.ru/index.php/component/content/article/45/431

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:00 pm

    Interview Ilya Tarasenko, of General Director of the JSC "Russian Aircraft Corporation, the MiG

    http://echo.msk.ru/guests/819732-echo/

    Any information what he mentioned in interview , May be something on Light Fighter Program for Russian Speaking folks here ?
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    Anas Ali

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Anas Ali on Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:01 pm

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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:26 pm

    Nice !!

    Seems to be a Mig-35 and not a 29M2 like it was said in some media. Do you know if it has AESA radar or dopler ?

    Hope they will test them against Rafales and F-16s and give us results like indian did with 29 and M2000!!
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    Anas Ali

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Anas Ali on Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:38 pm

    Isos wrote:Nice !!

    Seems to be a Mig-35 and not a 29M2 like it was said in some media. Do you know if it has AESA radar or dopler ?

    Hope they will test them against Rafales and F-16s and give us results like indian did with 29 and M2000!!

    i think for now it dopler radar and they say in the near future it will get the AESA , and sure it will be tested heavily with and against Rafale and F-16
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    Anas Ali

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Anas Ali on Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:41 pm



    I love you
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    berhoum

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    Re: MiG-29 / ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: Nouvelles

    Post  berhoum on Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:16 pm

    Anas Ali wrote:
    Isos wrote:Nice !!

    Seems to be a Mig-35 and not a 29M2 like it was said in some media. Do you know if it has AESA radar or dopler ?

    Hope they will test them against Rafales and F-16s and give us results like indian did with 29 and M2000!!

    i think for now it dopler radar and they say in the near future it will get the AESA , and sure it will be tested heavily with and against Rafale and F-16

    Good evening I would like to know mig 29 or 35 he says to himself anything on to forum  affraid Thank you
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    Anas Ali

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Anas Ali on Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:53 am

    berhoum wrote:
    Anas Ali wrote:
    Isos wrote:Nice !!

    Seems to be a Mig-35 and not a 29M2 like it was said in some media. Do you know if it has AESA radar or dopler ?

    Hope they will test them against Rafales and F-16s and give us results like indian did with 29 and M2000!!

    i think for now it dopler radar and they say in the near future it will get the AESA , and sure it will be tested heavily with and against Rafale and F-16

    Good evening I would like to know mig 29 or 35 he says to himself anything on to forum  affraid Thank you

    mig-35
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    berhoum

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  berhoum on Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:31 pm

    Hello What is the difference between Mig-29 M/M2 and Mig-35?  Shocked
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    Isos

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Isos on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:40 pm


    marcellogo

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  marcellogo on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:10 pm

    berhoum wrote:Hello What is the difference between Mig-29 M/M2 and Mig-35?  Shocked

    Not much really: just the integral FLIR/targeting system on the engine pods are there for sure, the rest is still uncertain.
    Actually all the new ones land version produced would have the denomination MiG-35 for what I have understood..
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    franco

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  franco on Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:20 am

    berhoum wrote:Hello What is the difference between Mig-29 M/M2 and Mig-35?  Shocked

    Mig-29M is latest and probably last version of the Mig-29. Russians are claiming the Mig-35 turned out to be a totally different aircraft. Or so they claim.
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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:07 am

    franco wrote:
    berhoum wrote:Hello What is the difference between Mig-29 M/M2 and Mig-35?  Shocked

    Mig-29M is latest and probably last version of the Mig-29. Russians are claiming the Mig-35 turned out to be a totally different aircraft. Or so they claim.  

    From what i can tell the difference between the Mig-29M and Mig-35 is a brand new radar one variant of which is using GaN photonics, new engines a variant of which has thrust vectoring, the new OLS-35 2 of them one for Air-to-Air and one for air-to-ground, and some improvement in avionics, and better max take-off weight.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:09 am

    It is supposed to get the new radar, which apparently isn't in production yet.

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