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    MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

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    TR1

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  TR1 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:28 pm

    I would not be surprised in the least if MiG "mislabeled" things as new when they were older make (even if fully functional, which is the case I believe). MiG had a lot of issues with mismanagment, lots of replacements, and ofc the typical post USSR situation.

    Low level corruption is so common through ought Russia (well, and high level) that someone cutting corners this way is almost to be assumed.
    I mean, they bought a used anchor for Kuznetsov....and pocketed the rest....:/
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    runaway

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  runaway on Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:54 pm

    TR1 wrote:Low level corruption is so common through ought Russia (well, and high level) that someone cutting corners this way is almost to be assumed.
    I mean, they bought a used anchor for Kuznetsov....and pocketed the rest....:/

    Yes, and it never seems to end..

    MOSCOW, January 14 (RIA Novosti) – A district court in Russia’s Nizhny Novgorod Region has ordered the seizure of real estate from a former official found guilty of fraud involving fighter jets for Syria, according to the court’s website.

    Andrei Silyakov’s land plot and house qualified for confiscation because he had other places to live, the Vachsky court said on Friday without specifying the property’s value.

    But Silyakov, a former regional official at the Federal Reserves Agency, was not using the house anyway because he has been on the run since 2011.

    In 2006-2007 Silyakov illegally sold four airframes for MiG-31 fighter jets from the state reserves, investigators said earlier.

    The buyer was Nizhny Novgorod’s Sokol aircraft maker that was contracted to supply the jets to the Syrian Air Force, media reported in 2010.

    Silyakov managed to sell the airframes – which cost 115 million rubles each ($3.8 million) – to a firm he controlled for 153 rubles ($5) apiece. He later resold them to the Sokol plant for 4 million rubles ($130,000).

    He was also accused of swindling 35,000 tons of fuel oil through similar machinations.

    The official pleaded not guilty but was convicted of fraud and sentenced to ten years and eight months in prison in 2011. He disappeared days before the verdict and remains on the run.

    Total damages in the case were estimated at 1.3 billion rubles, but the court only sentenced Silyakov to a fine of 315 million rubles ($10 million).

    The airframes were never turned into jets for Syria and remain on Sokol's premises, Kommersant said on Monday.

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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:26 pm

    Well I still don't see the connection between... there is some corruption in Russia, and Mig is no longer able to make aircraft.

    Personally I think it was more likely a translation error regarding what constitutes new... if they wanted new planes then WTF were they buying Mig-29SMTs? They should have been buying Mig-29M2s if they wanted new planes.

    If Russian planes are crap and Russia is all corrupt why would they suddenly cancel the contract and then buy Sukhois... or is there no corruption at Sukhoi?

    (In my personal experience the more money the more the corruption which suggests to me there would be even more corruption at Sukhoi... but it seems to be screw Mig week this week...) Razz
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    TR1

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:29 pm

    The SMT was marketed as a new plane, that was the issue.
    They did not send their MiG-29s to be upgraded, they were buying new build birds.
    As I understood, this was the center of the issue - the birds were certainly "new build"...but built in the early 90 and stored!

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  a89 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:14 pm

    The SMT was marketed as a new plane, that was the issue.
    They did not send their MiG-29s to be upgraded, they were buying new build birds.
    As I understood, this was the center of the issue - the birds were certainly "new build"...but built in the early 90 and stored!

    Well, SMT was always advertised as a modernization. Those Algerian SMT were built from stocks. In 1991 MiG got a large number of aircraft from VVS and Iraqui Air Force orders which were not delivered. All aircraft sold until Indian MiG-29K contract came from these stocks. Algerians should have been aware of this, and I am sure they were. The issue were some defective parts installed in the aircraft.

    A while ago I wrote a long article on the SMT. Its in Spanish but can be easily translated to English.

    alejandro-8.blogspot.com/2012/02/mig-29smt-la-version-de-los-escandalos_15.html

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    TR1

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:19 pm

    What was defective specifically though?

    I have encountered no mention of any specifics actually failing in service, but more disagreement over the age of some of the equipment.

    Did anything actually fail?

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  a89 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:12 pm

    In some news you can find references to components: BOD-88, which are used to control fuel pressure. Components had been manufactured between 1984 and 1996, data sheets were falsified.

    militaryparitet.com/teletype/data/ic_teletype/5055/
    pravda.ru/accidents/factor/crime/26-05-2011/1078215-kontrakt-0/
    tsn.ua/svit/fsb-top-menedzheri-miga-prodali-alzhiru-brakovani-vinishchuvachi.html

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    TR1

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:37 am

    Ok that is the specifics I was looking for, thanks Alejandro!

    Where these replaced when delivered to RuAF? AFAIK the birds have had no issues in service, and they get a decent number of flight hours (150 per pilot @ Kursk in 20120).

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  a89 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:45 am

    Where these replaced when delivered to RuAF? AFAIK the birds have had no issues in service, and they get a decent number of flight hours (150 per pilot @ Kursk in 20120).

    The componets were replaced. There were going to be changes anyway (IFF). In any case I always thought those birds were a great opportunity for a country that needed to acquire a supersonic fighter, like Peru. RSK MiG would have been very flexible and careful to avoid any problems.

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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:47 am

    Even if the planes were perfect they would have rejected them when given an offer of Su-30s for the same price...
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    TR1

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:16 am

    TBH I am rather happy the RuAF ended up with the birds.
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:20 am

    In full agreement there mate.

    I think the Mig-29 gets a really bad rap... for a while it was the soviet super fighter, but then after they got their hands on them and learned their strengths and weaknesses before they actually came up against them for real I think they have been hugely underrated in the west.

    The West Germans were able to shame most western pilots and they were using downgraded obsolete old warsaw pact models. The upgrades Mig has worked hard on for all these years are ignored by "western experts" and it seems most westerners think Migs are easy beats.

    The facts of the matter are that if you put almost any plane in the same situation and it would have failed too.

    The main problem of course is that the Mig is often compared with modern western fighters armed with AMRAAMs, so while the R-77 remains untested in real combat it is a real unknown quantity that is easy to dismiss.

    One of the claims to fame of the SMT upgrade of the Mig-29 was something like a 40% reduction in operational costs, plus the huge advantage of adding precision guided air to air and air to ground capability. These two features alone should make it worthwhile to impliment an upgrade program on 100-150 Mig-29s in the best condition from storage with the lowest hours on the airframes.

    Cheap to operate, multirole, able to use the latest weapons... what more would you want?
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    George1

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  George1 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:29 pm

    Can anyone tell us how many MiG-29M/M2 are in russian inventory??
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:03 pm

    Can anyone tell us how many MiG-29M/M2 are in russian inventory??

    Right now... none.


    Regarding a comparison between the Mig-35 and the F-35 it is rather interesting and really depends on what you want.

    In many ways the Mig-35 is very much an impressive bird, the models at aeroindia showed it with 2,000L fuel tanks on its inner weapons pylons, which means its inner weapons pylons should be able to carry 2 ton payloads like KAB-1500 bombs of various types and also Klub air launched cruise missiles, which previous 29s have lacked the capacity to carry.

    Its 360 degree DAS system should be as effective as the F-35s system, though of course the Mig-35 is not stealthy as such, it is also much much cheaper.

    The Mig-35, with a 5 pylon wing has a much wider range of weapons options and better weapon load and is also likely faster.

    With modern long range AAMs potentially with EO guidance the Mig-35 would be a very potent aircraft in a wide range of roles, and includes a two seat version for roles like light strike, or even interceptor.

    The F-35 is likely going to be a very capable jet, but I think the Mig-35 would represent better value for money for most air forces.

    There is a serious question as to how stealthy exported F-35s will be and how successful an air force might be at maintaining such an aircraft so that that stealthiness can be maintained in operational service... which has yet to be demonstrated.

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  ricky123 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:07 pm

    will the mig35 be at airshow2013 in india ??
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    Sujoy

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:43 pm

    ricky123 wrote:will the mig35 be at airshow2013 in india ??

    No . Since the MMRCA competition is over this Aero India Show will be rather bland since few fighters will participate.

    As of now it seems Rafale, Su-27 & F-16 Demo Teams will perform .

    The spotlight this year will be on helos as companies are competing for the Indian Army / IAF reconnaissance and surveillance helicopter (RSH) competition. Kamov will display the Ka-226T Sergei and Eurocopter will display the AS 550 C3 Fennec

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  ricky123 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:40 am

    thanks .. that means no pakfa too
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    Sujoy

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  Sujoy on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:43 am

    ricky123 wrote:thanks .. that means no pakfa too

    No . Unless there is a change of heart at the eleventh hour . We will see PAK FA in MAKS later this year. Also , what's the point of showcasing the PAKFA right now when the Indian prototype is still being worked upon.

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  indochina on Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:33 am



    I want to know, why the MiG-35 does not have the Targeting pod (eg Sapsan-E) ? why they use OLS-K for A2G purposes?



    IRST's F-14D



    OLS-K is IRST system, it is designed for air combat, the F-14D, F-15C and F/A-18 is equipped with IRST in the lower abdomen or the nose of the aircraft, but they still have to bring parallel Targeting pod ! (eg ATFLIR)



    ATFLIR's F/A-18C
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:35 pm

    I want to know, why the MiG-35 does not have the Targeting pod (eg Sapsan-E) ? why they use OLS-K for A2G purposes?

    The Mig-35 has a 5th gen avionics suite that integrates all its sensors and systems. As such it makes sense to combine information from the helmet mounted sight and the radar and the IRST system together.

    The Mig-35 will be able to use a pod, but to improve its capabilities against a range of targets it has two optical systems built in to give it multirole capability.

    Pods are nice because you can spend a bit more money on them because you don't need one for every aircraft. They are also easier to leave behind if you don't need them, and upgrade as technology improves.

    Their problem is that they take up space and often are not always located in the ideal place.

    There is no reason why the Mig-35 couldn't be fitted with a pod but it already has full 360 degree horizontal coverage below and above the aircraft with the two IRST systems it carries which allows it to detect air and ground targets and also mark those targets with a laser.
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    TR1

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  TR1 on Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:12 pm

    Sapsan sucked, that's why.
    And they had production problems @ UOMZ.

    Hopefully the new pod for the Su-25 fairs better.

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  indochina on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:17 am

    GarryB wrote:
    I want to know, why the MiG-35 does not have the Targeting pod (eg Sapsan-E) ? why they use OLS-K for A2G purposes?

    The Mig-35 has a 5th gen avionics suite that integrates all its sensors and systems. As such it makes sense to combine information from the helmet mounted sight and the radar and the IRST system together.

    The Mig-35 will be able to use a pod, but to improve its capabilities against a range of targets it has two optical systems built in to give it multirole capability.

    Pods are nice because you can spend a bit more money on them because you don't need one for every aircraft. They are also easier to leave behind if you don't need them, and upgrade as technology improves.

    Their problem is that they take up space and often are not always located in the ideal place.

    There is no reason why the Mig-35 couldn't be fitted with a pod but it already has full 360 degree horizontal coverage below and above the aircraft with the two IRST systems it carries which allows it to detect air and ground targets and also mark those targets with a laser.

    Thank you Very Happy
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:02 pm

    Sapsan sucked, that's why.
    And they had production problems @ UOMZ.

    Hopefully the new pod for the Su-25 fairs better.

    Likely just not fully developed.

    It was the first targeting pod of that type they ever tried to make and I rather suspect that all we ever saw was a mockup design prototype and that it was never actually fully developed as a system. When the Damocles pod was chosen for the Russian AF I suspect they lost funding for the Sapsan and had to rely on export customers to pay for the completion of development... which likely never happened.

    They are developing targeting pods for the PAK FA for the ground attack role so I hope they do know what they are doing with such technology.

    In my opinion the Mig-35 probably wouldn't need a targetting pod except to allow two targets to be laser marked at one time.

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  eridan on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:11 am

    How many two seat conversion trainer migs29 are there in active russian service? 30? 50? 70?
    Also, why such discrepancy between number of active service mig29 squadrons and total number of migs29 in russian service? Or do mig29 squadrons have something like 40 planes per squadron?
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    GarryB

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    Re: MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:52 pm

    Post your numbers of Migs in service and their type and the squadrons that operate them and perhaps we can work it out. Smile

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