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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

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    whir
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  whir on Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:43 pm

    Bloomberg wrote:U.S. Creates Russia Sanctions Loophole to Counter Kremlin Spin
    by Nicole GaouetteBrian Wingfield June 4, 2015 — 6:00 AM CES

    The U.S. has quietly created a loophole in its sanctions against Russia to allow exports of communications software to Crimea so that its people can take to the Internet and chip away at the Kremlin’s efforts to control information.

    The rule lets companies export social media software for blogging, photo-sharing, instant messaging and other forms of communication in an effort to reduce Russia’s ability “to control the narrative of local events,” the Commerce Department said.

    Moscow’s “weaponized propaganda,” in one Pentagon official’s words, has put the U.S. and European Union at a disadvantage, officials and analysts say, even as economic sanctions hit the Russian economy. The Crimea initiative is part of a broader U.S. push to help people worldwide get free access to news and information.

    Some critics say it’s a mistake to fight the information battle on Russia’s terms, but others say the Commerce Department’s move, which gives software companies the legal assurances they need to sell in an area ruled by Russia, provides ammunition for Crimeans who oppose Russia’s annexation of their peninsula in March 2014.

    The Commerce Department rule appeared May 22 in the Federal Register, where the government publishes agency regulations. That was days before President Barack Obama met with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg to denounce Russia’s actions in Ukraine and reiterate U.S. support.

    Alec Ross, the State Department’s former senior adviser for innovation, said the Commerce Department move is consistent with steps the Obama administration took in 2010 in Iran, Syria, Cuba and Sudan. “Technology companies often avoid markets where there is any question whatsoever about the legal terrain,” he said. Continue reading.

    TASS wrote:Ukraine’s parliament allows foreign peacekeepers into country
    World June 04, 16:42 UTC+3

    The document will serve as grounds for carrying out a peacekeeping operation on Ukraine’s territory based on the UN or the EU decisions as part of providing the country’s with aid

    KIEV, June 4. /TASS/. Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, on Thursday passed a law allowing foreign armed forces to support "peace and security in the country."

    A total of 240 lawmakers voted for the decision, 14 more than the minimum required.

    "Carrying out international operation on supporting peace and security in Ukraine will ensure efficient implementation of the protocol after consultations of the Contact Group," an explanatory note says.

    The document will serve as grounds for carrying out a peacekeeping operation on Ukraine’s territory based on the UN or the EU decisions as part of providing the country’s with aid.

    Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said earlier Ukraine had the right to turn to the UN Security Council with the request for deploying peacekeepers in an effort to establish peace in the country. Continue reading.

    BBC wrote:Ukraine's Poroshenko warns of 'full-scale' Russia invasion
    51 minutes ago Europe

    President Petro Poroshenko has told MPs the military must prepare to defend against a possible "full-scale invasion" from Russia, amid a surge of violence in eastern Ukraine.

    Russia has denied that its military is involved in Ukraine, but Mr Poroshenko said 9,000 of its troops were deployed.
    Clashes involving tanks took place in two areas west of Donetsk on Wednesday.
    There was a "colossal threat" that large-scale fighting would resume, the president told parliament in Kiev.
    The outbreak of violence, in the government-held towns of Maryinka and Krasnohorivka, was among the worst in eastern Ukraine since a ceasefire was signed in Minsk in February.
    International monitors from the OSCE said that in the hours before and during the fighting around Maryinka a large amount of heavy weapons was spotted moving towards the contact line in rebel-controlled areas. Continue reading.

    Action Tube (WAR: UKRAINE-RUSSIA) wrote:Обстрел/shelling

    Neutrality
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Neutrality on Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:57 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia considers giving gas discounts to Ukraine which is Russia's brother nation

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/russia-considering-gas-discount-for-ukraine-for-third-quarter-or-till-year-end-390262.html


    Now this is starting to piss me off. Anyone here who can explain this illogical step to Ukraine's aggression? Please not the usual crap that some members keep writing but a thorough explanation. No conspiracy theories as well. The only loical explanation I (heavy stress on I) can see is that Gazprom doesn't want to lose Ukrainian payments.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:06 pm

    whir wrote:
    Bloomberg wrote:U.S. Creates Russia Sanctions Loophole to Counter Kremlin Spin
    by Nicole GaouetteBrian Wingfield June 4, 2015 — 6:00 AM CES

    The U.S. has quietly created a loophole in its sanctions against Russia to allow exports of communications software to Crimea so that its people can take to the Internet and chip away at the Kremlin’s efforts to control information.

    The rule lets companies export social media software for blogging, photo-sharing, instant messaging and other forms of communication in an effort to reduce Russia’s ability “to control the narrative of local events,” the Commerce Department said.

    Moscow’s “weaponized propaganda,” in one Pentagon official’s words, has put the U.S. and European Union at a disadvantage, officials and analysts say, even as economic sanctions hit the Russian economy. The Crimea initiative is part of a broader U.S. push to help people worldwide get free access to news and information.

    Some critics say it’s a mistake to fight the information battle on Russia’s terms, but others say the Commerce Department’s move, which gives software companies the legal assurances they need to sell in an area ruled by Russia, provides ammunition for Crimeans who oppose Russia’s annexation of their peninsula in March 2014.

    The Commerce Department rule appeared May 22 in the Federal Register, where the government publishes agency regulations. That was days before President Barack Obama met with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg to denounce Russia’s actions in Ukraine and reiterate U.S. support.

    Alec Ross, the State Department’s former senior adviser for innovation, said the Commerce Department move is consistent with steps the Obama administration took in 2010 in Iran, Syria, Cuba and Sudan. “Technology companies often avoid markets where there is any question whatsoever about the legal terrain,” he said. Continue reading.

    This makes no sense. Crimeans already have access to internet and profile pages like VK and such. So clearly this is garbage. Add to it, announcing it is a stupid move as well. Lol.


    Last edited by sepheronx on Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:11 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia considers giving gas discounts to Ukraine which is Russia's brother nation

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/russia-considering-gas-discount-for-ukraine-for-third-quarter-or-till-year-end-390262.html


    Now this is starting to piss me off. Anyone here who can explain this illogical step to Ukraine's aggression? Please not the usual crap that some members keep writing but a thorough explanation. No conspiracy theories as well. The only loical explanation I (heavy stress on I) can see is that Gazprom doesn't want to lose Ukrainian payments.

    The other logical explanation would be that Kiev has Moscow by the balls over the European gas supplies. Kiev would simply turn the gas off for Europe if Moscow does not sell it gas with discounted price. And Moscow is very keen on keeping its role as the main gas supplier to Europe. Gazprom is more important than Novorossiya.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  whir on Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:11 pm

    Neutrality wrote:Now this is starting to piss me off. Anyone here who can explain this illogical step to Ukraine's aggression? Please not the usual crap that some members keep writing but a thorough explanation. No conspiracy theories as well. The only loical explanation I (heavy stress on I) can see is that Gazprom doesn't want to lose Ukrainian payments.
    Not to alienate people unnecessarily.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:12 pm

    whir wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:Now this is starting to piss me off. Anyone here who can explain this illogical step to Ukraine's aggression? Please not the usual crap that some members keep writing but a thorough explanation. No conspiracy theories as well. The only loical explanation I (heavy stress on I) can see is that Gazprom doesn't want to lose Ukrainian payments.
    Not to alienate people unnecessarily.
    Are you joking? Not to alienate people?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  whir on Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:42 pm

    sepheronx wrote:This makes no sense. Crimeans already have access to internet and profile pages like VK and such. So clearly this is garbage. Add to it, announcing it is a stupid move as well. Lol.
    Oh but it surely does since they need to create a narrative that justifies the sales of US made equipment and services to Russian enterprises.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Neutrality on Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:52 pm

    I think the whole situation is treading dangerous grounds. US Secretary of Defense and a dozen generals are meeting in Berlin to talk about the strategy against the Russian "aggression" against Ukraine. We all know that every little extra help the Ukrainians get is met with Moscow's immediate response by upping the NAF's support even more. Covertly but it's there, we all know that. And the more this builds up the more real -West v Russia- situation becomes.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:04 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia considers giving gas discounts to Ukraine which is Russia's brother nation

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/russia-considering-gas-discount-for-ukraine-for-third-quarter-or-till-year-end-390262.html


    Now this is starting to piss me off. Anyone here who can explain this illogical step to Ukraine's aggression? Please not the usual crap that some members keep writing but a thorough explanation. No conspiracy theories as well. The only loical explanation I (heavy stress on I) can see is that Gazprom doesn't want to lose Ukrainian payments.

    Is called Public Relations..  After Ukraine was shelling  RUssian territory in 2014 and people dying and kiev was in talks about an imminent war against Russia.. What Putin was saying after all that? that Russia will never go to a war against friendly brothers Ukraine.  Shocked

    But the message is not for kiev.. the message is for the more 40 millions of Ukrainians..that are undecided whether to fight for Kiev or defect..  Wink  

    and for the international community. maintaining the world image that Russia do not see ukraine as their enemies and is interested in solving all differences with dialogue and politics is very important.. why?

    It can be very useful to not allow Ukraine to get unity they need in the country ..to start a war against Russia.  So is called Public Relations..  At the same time Russia says that ,new weapons have to be crossing the border.. for the Rebels with more reinforcements .

    Maintaining a good positive public Relations in public with Ukraine is important ,(even if in secret Russia will like to nuke kiev.. ) Reason is because if any major aggression happens, lets say , Ukraine launch a cruise missile against Moscow .. then Kiev will have a hard time to justify it ,claiming it was for "self defense" when Russia was offering discounts in energy and being
    offering solving things through political dialogue and peace....  Very Happy  


    This is why people will never understand Putin.. and accuse him of "Selling Novorosiya" , Putin is trying to capture all Ukraine  and not just a tiny region that will never have a chance to be at peace and instead will become a new Gaza ,if Russia do not manage to get Europe opposing US proxy war plans and give Russia another afgan war.. Putin Public relations is aimed at the general public in Ukraine but also to Europe..  Russia positive constructive stance ,allows Russia to be virtually immune of any framing for any false flag attack by US or Ukraine.

    The most important thing about Russia constructive aptitude . is that
    IT will allow Russia to justify to declare war or retaliate to any nation that attack them.
    Ie.. just like Georgia war.  That the west failed to demonize Russia for it.. and instead Russia
    not only invaded Georgia and gave independence to the zones in conflict ,but also defeated all
    western propaganda and attempts to isolate Russia because of that incident.  Wink

     
    Had Russia instead threatened Ukraine with war and air strikes , from the very start ,and starting doing it with his airforce..and later invade with army pushing the Cianazis away and continue advancing , the Ukies will had a field day with False flags and blow up a Nuclear reactor near Donetsk and claim Russia did it..  They can also fabricate images of civilians being killed by Russian airforce bombing . and provoke unrest in Russian cities..

    All said What you see in Ukraine is different things.. that US and Kiev are doing is aimed
    at different things..

    1)Sabotage Russia economy
    2) Damage Russia world image..and demonize Russia for "Aggression" "warcrimes" and
    "violation of international laws"..
    3)Create a wall between Europe and Russia .a new cold war ,full containment of Russia.

    The whole Euromaidan revolution ,the ultimate goal of the white house was the split of Europe from Russia and cut of all their trade and  relations..  Is economic war.. with isolation of Russia.

    So far is seems they are going to win ,and a new cold war will happen any way.. They are going to extend/increase sanctions ,rewarding Ukraine last round of war crimes against civilians.

    But there is a lot of division in Europe however , very fracture and for me his is the major achievement of Russia policy in Ukraine. You have a few calls right and left for ditching Ukraine and leaving NATO and leaving the EU . and a lot of calls for lifting Russian sanctions ,completely
    in rebellion against US policy with Russia.

    Why is important Russia to maintain open doors with Europe and try to get their support
    in Political solution in Ukraine?  Because if they ignore them.. is very likely that it will allow
    US to reinforce NATO unity against Russia..  And Russia will be forced to fight all Europe
    in war without americans being in the front line or firing a single shot.

    What Russia is trying to achieve is..
    1)A major division in Europe.. and the break of NATO alliance.
    2)To freeze the conflict until their economy is fully integrated with EuroAsia..
    3)To show all Ukrainians common people ,that Russia is not their enemy and their Government
    is creating all their problems.
    4)The isolation of Americans in trying to cut relations between Europe and Russia.
    5)Restore democracy in all Ukraine and reverse the coup ,and get out the ultra nationalist from
    power.. In other words Russia is trying to capture all Ukraine.. to pre coup levels at least.. Where Russia had good relations with kiev.. and no hostile factions in power.


    So there is a war on many fronts and the political one is the biggest one.. Russia trying to
    reverse the coup in Ukraine and restore democracy there and Get Europe on their side..  While Americans Gov..trying to isolate Russia.  Putin calls for closer cooperation with Ukraine is aimed
    at the civilians.. and Europeans ..to show Russia intentions.. (so it cannot be blamed for any false flag or help kiev in creating any unity against Russia) .

    So ignore what Russia Government say.. is Public Relations.. and the only thing you can judge
    Russia is for what they do. And Rebels are not being abandoned. I never heard anyone claiming
    in Donetsk or Lugansk that Russia is not helping them. Wink  Only that they wish Russia ended
    their suffering and annexed them too like Crimea..  obviously the average civilian do not understand politics and consequences of capturing only Donetsk and Lugansk and leaving
    the americans in control of 95% of the country. About how the violence will not end with
    Russia army invasion.

    the average citizens in the world is full of zombies , People that do not think for themselves and everything they know comes from their controlled media.. and that NATO "Russian Aggression" and "Russian invasion" Slogans.. is aimed at creating unity in Europe AGAINST Russia to justify NATO existence and their Isolation of Russia and militarization of their borders .  In other words American Government is using Fear to justify their control of Europe ,their military presence and the need of Americans to "protect them" when in reality what US is doing putting at risk their security with their provocations against Russia.. and by their arming of criminals in Ukraine to bomb civilians women and children. they are actually provoking a world war. and where Europe will be in the front line and the americans completely neutral speaking about the need to solve things peacefully with dialogue.  Rolling Eyes

    The US Government is full of bastards who are manipulating the world opinion ,they are literary
    provoking world war 3.. and without them being in the front line.. All they need to do is send lethal weapons to Ukraine ,mini nukes ,or chemical and biological weapons ,and provoke Russia to invade. and then continue arming kiev .. fighting Russia by proxy..and through their European or Canadian allies. and this is the reason Why RUssia needs to work with Europe friendly nations ,to stop American proxy war against Russia..

    Is quite interesting that the best way Russia can counter US and Kiev.. is precisely by having a strong economy. That will lure away 40 millions Ukrainians from kiev failed state and create divisions about the war kiev is promoting. THis is already happening .. many reports of many Euromaidans who jumped in kiev in support of EU ,moving to Russia ,because europeans does not want them. and this will play a big role in the Reorganization of Ukraine once the nation disband. My prediction is Ukraine will disband in at least 3 parts.. the pro Russia ,the Neutral and the Ultra nationals . Poland will get the western Ukraine all the way to kiev..and Russia will get the support of 2/3 parts of Ukraine. And depending on Russia economy it could allow Russia
    to annex again most of Ukraine back to Russia.

    And this is the reason why US attacks on Russia economy will never stop.. never.. not now ,not in a decade..  because if Russia becomes very strong economically ,it will easily influence most Ukraine to return to Russia.  Cool

    So is not a joke ,when i say the best thing Russia can do ,to Defeat Americans and the CIAnazis in kiev is 1)Good public relations.. 2) Get a strong economy.  That will not only allow end the conflict in Ukraine by not allowing US and Kiev to get the support they need for their war.. but potentially could allow Russia to De-Nazify Ukraine completely and or literary recapture the lands without firing a single shot , the Crimean way. That is when people receive the RUssian army with Open Arms.. Influence is the key word here.. what we see between US and Russia
    in Europe and Ukraine is a war on influence.. Both fighting with words ,and actions to gain support for their side.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Regular on Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:42 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:According to Kiev (Poroshenko's aide Yury Biryukov):

    5 Ukrainian soldiers were killed and 39 injured yesterday.

    Not Ukrainian soldiers. Maidanists who burned police officers on Maidan. Maidanists who slaughtered innocent Donbas civilians with ballistic missiles.
    Are You for real? Most of the crimes are done by incompetent conscript idiots. Shelling everywhere. WW2 Berlin style.. But on Your own land (as they claim). Drunk ukrainian soldiers are even bigger problem than drunk seps. Thievery, rape, desertion is a common thing among Ukrainian soldiers too. They don't give a fuck about Maidan, Europe, they are just cannon fodder sent by their own Yeltsin. If to believe locals it sounds as bad as in 1st Chechen war.
    Love for Bandera and Kraina is alive only in volunteers... Even if they are nasty fuckers, but it's Ukrainian artillerymen who deserve hanging.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Regular on Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:44 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Gazprom is more important than Novorossiya.
    Color me shocked. Gazprom brings profit, Novo - does opposite.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Flagship Victory on Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:45 pm

    It looks like the US is going to arm Ukraine. The whole purpose of that was making NAF do an offensive so they can say Ukraine needs arms NAF broke Minsk 2. IMO it was foolish NAF withdrew from Marinka after capturing it. The damage is done. The US will interpret NAF's offensive as violating Minsk 2 therefore sending weapons to Ukraine.

    Maidan is the biggest fattest liar on the planet.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraine-sold-last-buk-rocket-to-georgia-long-before-mh17-crash-390276.html

    You know, even if NAF stands there and takes Maidan's daily bombardment, the West will still retch up sanctions on Russia. The west won't stop retching up sanctions on Russia until Russia is split up into small pieces like what happened to Yugoslavia. NAF needs to make an offensive on Kiev if it is to survive. Putin still doesn't understand why CIA orchestrated Maidan. It was to kill Russia. Maidan is one of the most venomous schemes ever plotted.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Da_Vinci on Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:53 pm

    claimed to be video from downed UA-helicopter, 2014
    watch from 01:25
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=93&v=3xtPFAJSf94

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  par far on Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:54 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia considers giving gas discounts to Ukraine which is Russia's brother nation

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/russia-considering-gas-discount-for-ukraine-for-third-quarter-or-till-year-end-390262.html


    Now this is starting to piss me off. Anyone here who can explain this illogical step to Ukraine's aggression? Please not the usual crap that some members keep writing but a thorough explanation. No conspiracy theories as well. The only loical explanation I (heavy stress on I) can see is that Gazprom doesn't want to lose Ukrainian payments.

    Is called Public Relations..  After Ukraine was shelling  RUssian territory in 2014 and people dying and kiev was in talks about an imminent war against Russia.. What Putin was saying after all that? that Russia will never go to a war against friendly brothers Ukraine.  Shocked

    But the message is not for kiev.. the message is for the more 40 millions of Ukrainians..that are undecided whether to fight for Kiev or defect..  Wink  

    and for the international community. maintaining the world image that Russia do not see ukraine as their enemies and is interested in solving all differences with dialogue and politics is very important.. why?

    It can be very useful to not allow Ukraine to get unity they need in the country ..to start a war against Russia.  So is called Public Relations..  At the same time Russia says that ,new weapons have to be crossing the border.. for the Rebels with more reinforcements .

    Maintaining a good positive public Relations in public with Ukraine is important ,(even if in secret Russia will like to nuke kiev.. ) Reason is because if any major aggression happens, lets say , Ukraine launch a cruise missile against Moscow .. then Kiev will have a hard time to justify it ,claiming it was for "self defense" when Russia was offering discounts in energy and being
    offering solving things through political dialogue and peace....  Very Happy  


    This is why people will never understand Putin.. and accuse him of "Selling Novorosiya" , Putin is trying to capture all Ukraine  and not just a tiny region that will never have a chance to be at peace and instead will become a new Gaza ,if Russia do not manage to get Europe opposing US proxy war plans and give Russia another afgan war.. Putin Public relations is aimed at the general public in Ukraine but also to Europe..  Russia positive constructive stance ,allows Russia to be virtually immune of any framing for any false flag attack by US or Ukraine.

    The most important thing about Russia constructive aptitude . is that
    IT will allow Russia to justify to declare war or retaliate to any nation that attack them.
    Ie.. just like Georgia war.  That the west failed to demonize Russia for it.. and instead Russia
    not only invaded Georgia and gave independence to the zones in conflict ,but also defeated all
    western propaganda and attempts to isolate Russia because of that incident.  Wink

     
    Had Russia instead threatened Ukraine with war and air strikes , from the very start ,and starting doing it with his airforce..and later invade with army pushing the Cianazis away and continue advancing , the Ukies will had a field day with False flags and blow up a Nuclear reactor near Donetsk and claim Russia did it..  They can also fabricate images of civilians being killed by Russian airforce bombing . and provoke unrest in Russian cities..

    All said What you see in Ukraine is different things.. that US and Kiev are doing is aimed
    at different things..

    1)Sabotage Russia economy
    2) Damage Russia world image..and demonize Russia for "Aggression" "warcrimes" and
    "violation of international laws"..
    3)Create a wall between Europe and Russia .a new cold war ,full containment of Russia.

    The whole Euromaidan revolution ,the ultimate goal of the white house was the split of Europe from Russia and cut of all their trade and  relations..  Is economic war.. with isolation of Russia.

    So far is seems they are going to win ,and a new cold war will happen any way.. They are going to extend/increase sanctions ,rewarding Ukraine last round of war crimes against civilians.

    But there is a lot of division in Europe however , very fracture and for me his is the major achievement of Russia policy in Ukraine. You have a few calls right and left for ditching Ukraine and leaving NATO and leaving the EU . and a lot of calls for lifting Russian sanctions ,completely
    in rebellion against US policy with Russia.

    Why is important Russia to maintain open doors with Europe and try to get their support
    in Political solution in Ukraine?  Because if they ignore them.. is very likely that it will allow
    US to reinforce NATO unity against Russia..  And Russia will be forced to fight all Europe
    in war without americans being in the front line or firing a single shot.

    What Russia is trying to achieve is..
    1)A major division in Europe.. and the break of NATO alliance.
    2)To freeze the conflict until their economy is fully integrated with EuroAsia..
    3)To show all Ukrainians common people ,that Russia is not their enemy and their Government
    is creating all their problems.
    4)The isolation of Americans in trying to cut relations between Europe and Russia.
    5)Restore democracy in all Ukraine and reverse the coup ,and get out the ultra nationalist from
    power.. In other words Russia is trying to capture all Ukraine.. to pre coup levels at least.. Where Russia had good relations with kiev.. and no hostile factions in power.


    So there is a war on many fronts and the political one is the biggest one.. Russia trying to
    reverse the coup in Ukraine and restore democracy there and Get Europe on their side..  While Americans Gov..trying to isolate Russia.  Putin calls for closer cooperation with Ukraine is aimed
    at the civilians.. and Europeans ..to show Russia intentions.. (so it cannot be blamed for any false flag or help kiev in creating any unity against Russia) .

    So ignore what Russia Government say.. is Public Relations.. and the only thing you can judge
    Russia is for what they do. And Rebels are not being abandoned. I never heard anyone claiming
    in Donetsk or Lugansk that Russia is not helping them. Wink  Only that they wish Russia ended
    their suffering and annexed them too like Crimea..  obviously the average civilian do not understand politics and consequences of capturing only Donetsk and Lugansk and leaving
    the americans in control of 95% of the country. About how the violence will not end with
    Russia army invasion.

    the average citizens in the world is full of zombies , People that do not think for themselves and everything they know comes from their controlled media.. and that NATO "Russian Aggression" and "Russian invasion" Slogans.. is aimed at creating unity in Europe AGAINST Russia to justify NATO existence and their Isolation of Russia and militarization of their borders .  In other words American Government is using Fear to justify their control of Europe ,their military presence and the need of Americans to "protect them" when in reality what US is doing putting at risk their security with their provocations against Russia.. and by their arming of criminals in Ukraine to bomb civilians women and children. they are actually provoking a world war. and where Europe will be in the front line and the americans completely neutral speaking about the need to solve things peacefully with dialogue.  Rolling Eyes

    The US Government is full of bastards who are manipulating the world opinion ,they are literary
    provoking world war 3.. and without them being in the front line.. All they need to do is send lethal weapons to Ukraine ,mini nukes ,or chemical and biological weapons ,and provoke Russia to invade. and then continue arming kiev .. fighting Russia by proxy..and through their European or Canadian allies. and this is the reason Why RUssia needs to work with Europe friendly nations ,to stop American proxy war against Russia..  Russia best card however is their own economy superior to Ukrainian one and its public relations ,that is not allowing Kiev to get the unity they need to continue for long their war against eastern Ukraine without collapsing their economy and disbanding the nation in parts.


    Very good detailed post Vann, Putin is playing smart.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  par far on Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:57 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:It looks like the US is going to arm Ukraine. The whole purpose of that was making NAF do an offensive so they can say Ukraine needs arms NAF broke Minsk 2. IMO it was foolish NAF withdrew from Marinka after capturing it. The damage is done. The US will interpret NAF's offensive as violating Minsk 2 therefore sending weapons to Ukraine.

    Maidan is the biggest fattest liar on the planet.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraine-sold-last-buk-rocket-to-georgia-long-before-mh17-crash-390276.html

    You know, even if NAF stands there and takes Maidan's daily bombardment, the West will still retch up sanctions on Russia. The west won't stop retching up sanctions on Russia until Russia is split up into small pieces like what happened to Yugoslavia. NAF needs to make an offensive on Kiev if it is to survive. Putin still doesn't understand why CIA orchestrated Maidan. It was to kill Russia. Maidan is one of the most venomous schemes ever plotted.


    Putin fully understands what the maidan was all about, Putin is just trying to kill NATO and US and U.S. dollar much as he can. If he plays his cards right he might just do that.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:00 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:It looks like the US is going to arm Ukraine. The whole purpose of that was making NAF do an offensive so they can say Ukraine needs arms NAF broke Minsk 2. IMO it was foolish NAF withdrew from Marinka after capturing it. The damage is done. The US will interpret NAF's offensive as violating Minsk 2 therefore sending weapons to Ukraine.

    Maidan is the biggest fattest liar on the planet.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraine-sold-last-buk-rocket-to-georgia-long-before-mh17-crash-390276.html

    You know, even if NAF stands there and takes Maidan's daily bombardment, the West will still retch up sanctions on Russia. The west won't stop retching up sanctions on Russia until Russia is split up into small pieces like what happened to Yugoslavia. NAF needs to make an offensive on Kiev if it is to survive. Putin still doesn't understand why CIA orchestrated Maidan. It was to kill Russia. Maidan is one of the most venomous schemes ever plotted.

    Sanctions wont split Russia up. There is a reason why his popularity skyrocketed. technically, they will use sanctions against Russia for Russias opposition in coming regional elections: http://tass.ru/en/russia/798854
    To try and get pro kremlin guys out, but I dont think it will work per se. What they are trying is to have them in smaller regions, bring professional protesters out, and make the fake protests look massive in comparrison to what the regions actually are. But it will lead to nothing like all previous ones because this time, anti maiden groups will be there and will be able to counter the protests, and police will be around to prevent violence outbreak.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Boreas on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:03 pm

    Good news from 4 hours ago. It looks like the fighter of VSN with cut off fingers got exchanged and returned from the captivity. It's message from: https://twitter.com/EgoRZemtsoV/status/606461000871768065

    Damned criminals, it's medieval primitivism. I hope they'll get what they deserve.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Regular on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:09 pm

    Boreas wrote:Good news from 4 hours ago. It looks like the fighter of VSN with cut off fingers got exchanged and returned from the captivity. It's message from: https://twitter.com/EgoRZemtsoV/status/606461000871768065

    Damned criminals, it's medieval primitivism. I hope they'll get what they deserve.
    IDK man, nasty business but I would personally cut POW index fingers or severely break them before releasing them. No, I'm not sadist, but Ukrainian POWs come back to fight after they are freed. How would You stop that?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Neutrality on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:12 pm

    Thank you Vann, not exactly what I was aiming for but it satisfy me.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:16 pm

    Regular wrote:
    Boreas wrote:Good news from 4 hours ago. It looks like the fighter of VSN with cut off fingers got exchanged and returned from the captivity. It's message from: https://twitter.com/EgoRZemtsoV/status/606461000871768065

    Damned criminals, it's medieval primitivism. I hope they'll get what they deserve.
    IDK man, nasty business but I would personally cut POW index fingers or severely break them before releasing them. No, I'm not sadist, but Ukrainian POWs come back to fight after they are freed. How would You stop that?

    Theres is no justification for cutting off peoples fingers, even if 'militarily' it makes sense to guarantee they wont be able to fight anymore.

    Christ, we arent in middle ages.

    Not to mention the fact that if they know they will have their fingers removed, they are not going to surrender, and so will fight harder. Its better to treat them well, that encourages them to surrender rather than fight.

    just compare the german army in 1944-45 on the western and eastern fronts. They fought like hell against the red army, knowing what was coming to them, but on the west they were surrendering in their droves.



    As for guaranteeing that the POWS dont return, its quite easy. Keep them in a POW camp until the war is over, no exceptions. Hell, put them in a camp in the middle of gorlovka, see how they feel about being on the end of the constant ua artillery barrages.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  whir on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:30 pm

    Sputnik wrote:Caught Red Handed: Leaked Email Reveals Kiev Violated Ceasefire Many Times
    EUROPE 20:25 04.06.2015(updated 20:31 04.06.2015)

    For months, both sides of the Ukrainian conflict were accusing each other of violating the Minsk peace agreements. Turns out it was Kiev-led troops who were not sticking to the ceasefire plan, having their heavy artillery stationed near the border with the Donbass republics.

    Ukrainian hacktivist group CyberBerkut hacked into the emails of Major-General Andriy Taran, Chief of the Joint Centre for Ceasefire Control and Coordination in Ukraine, and recovered pictures that prove multiple violations of the Minsk peace agreements by Kiev forces.

    According to the Minsk agreements, both sides of the Ukrainian conflict — Donbass militia and Kiev troops — agreed to back their heavy artillery from the line of contact.

    However, satellite images obtained by CyberBerkut reveal that Kiev had its heavy artillery stationed in the immediate vicinity of the border with the Donbass republics, thus violating the terms of the ceasefire agreement.


    Kurdyumivka area on April 28, 2015. Distance to the line of contact - 6 km.

    Vidrodzhennya area on March 14, 2015. Distance to the line of contact - 8 km.

    Since the hacked emails were sent from Tetyana Podobinska-Shtyk, a staff member of the US Embassy in Ukraine, Washington was surely aware of the situation.

    “Sending you pictures which can become a serious problem for you! Think about how you can explain them, if the monitoring mission [OSCE] obtains them. Consult the team leader and think about a possible action plan, how you can justify them or present them as fake,” Podobinska-Shtyk said in the hacked email.


    Email from Tetyana Podobinska-Shtyk, a staff member of the US Embassy in Ukraine, to Andriy Taran, Chief of the Joint Centre for Ceasefire Control and Coordination in Ukraine.

    arlier, the US Department of State accused the Donbass militia of violating the terms of the Minsk peace agreement. However, US Department of State spokesperson Marie Harf was not able to name a single accurate source of information to prove the US' accusations. But now, it turns out that the opposite is true — it was the US-backed Kiev troops who regularly violated the ceasefire agreement and Washington knew about it all along.

    On Wednesday, it was reported that 14 members of the Donbass militia were killed and 86 wounded after clashes flared up along the line of contact near Donetsk.

    CyberBerkut is a group of hackers opposed to the current government in Kiev. Since the start of the conflict in Ukraine, the group has conducted a series of high-profile hacks. It has previously reported on the details of US plans to send arms to Ukraine, released information revealing the high casualty figures among the Ukrainian army, information about snipers on Maidan Square, and Victoria Nuland's famous "F**k the EU!" exchange with US Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt. Continue reading.

    Sputnik wrote:Russian Reconnaissance Troops Hold Exercises in Transnistria
    MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE 19:27 04.06.2015

    Russian reconnaissance troops held exercises in Transnistria. During the exercises the troops practiced combat actions against a simulated enemy.

    Russian soldiers hold combat exercises in Transnistria during which they completed a wide range of tactical and operative tasks.

    Transnistria is designated by the Republic of Moldova as the Transnistria autonomous territorial unit with special legal status.

    The training of the troops included organizing the search, watch and surveillance of the simulated enemy, unlocking security systems and covert penetration of critical facilities in order to obtain intelligence.

    "The soldiers performed a raid on a post of simulated enemy and other elements of the tactical and special training. The scouts also worked out practical problems in organizing the search, watch and surveillance of the subject, they also practiced opening of security and covert penetration of critical facilities in order to obtain intelligence," a press release of the Western Military District of the Russian Federation stated.

    In Transnistria, 60% of the population is Russian and Ukrainian. They sought to withdraw from Moldova even before the collapse of the Soviet Union, fearing that in the wave of nationalism, Moldova would join Romania.
    Since its declaration of independence in 1990, it has been governed as the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic, a state with limited recognition that claims territory to the east of the Dniester River.

    Currently, the peacekeeping operation in Transnistria is conducted by the joint peacekeeping force, which includes 402 Russian servicemen, 492 Transnistrian, 355 Moldovan and ten military observers from Ukraine.

    The peacekeepers are stationed at 15 fixed posts which are placed in the key areas of the security zone. Continue reading.

    The Wall Street Journal wrote:Observers Say Rebels in Eastern Ukraine Moved Heavy Weapons Before Fighting
    By LAURA MILLS Updated June 4, 2015 11:06 a.m. ET

    Ukrainian officials, separatist leaders blame each other for latest flare-up

    KIEV, Ukraine—International observers reported Thursday that Russia-backed rebels moved large numbers of heavy weapons toward Ukrainian government positions hours before an outbreak of deadly fighting that threatened a delicate cease-fire. Continue reading.

    Reuters wrote:NATO chief slams Russia amid upsurge in Ukraine conflict
    World | Thu Jun 4, 2015 1:59pm EDT

    NATO said on Thursday Russia was delivering sophisticated weaponry to rebels in eastern Ukraine, renewing long-standing accusations amid the worst upsurge in fighting in months between the Kiev government's forces and pro-Russian rebels.

    Earlier, Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko told his military to be prepared for the possibility of a "full-scale invasion" by Russia across the entire length of the joint border.

    "We have precise information that Russia is present in eastern Ukraine and that it has delivered large quantities of heavy, advanced weapons to the separatists," NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told reporters in Oslo. Continue reading.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:32 pm

    So will NATO release these precise info? Even though Sputnik news is showing leaked details about Ukraine breaking minsk treaty with evidence?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Regular on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:33 pm

    Problem with POW is that ... Ukraine would produce thousands and thousands of them. Rebels will need to feed them. Russia will need to send extra convoys just for them. You need medicine for them especially in winter. Locals aren't doing too well so I would rather keep all resources for own army and civvies.
    Enemy is enemy. I bet I would be happy loosing my index fingers than having 5.45mm in the brain.
    Sure it was Ukrainians who started it so... Let it begin..

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:35 pm

    Neutrality wrote:Thank you Vann, not exactly what I was aiming for but it satisfy me.

    Sure np.. Is a war on influence what happens today in the world between US and Russia..
    And the price is Europe and Ukraine.  Americans need all Europe united against Russia..
    and all Ukrainians same.. So for Russia only helping donetsk and lugansk will NOT end the war.
    The war can only end when Russia invades all cities in Ukraine.. with 150,000 soldiers.. but something like that will destroy Russia economy.. not mentioning the road side bombs of the CIA. And if Russia becomes bankrupt it will not influence Ukrainians to move to their side.
    Effectively wasting the entire invasion for nothing.. because as soon they leave ,US take control again of Ukraine and without firing a single shot..but with Color revolutions and money. No

    it will be far better if Russia only push ukrainians to win their own freedom and independence
    ,that is to fight for it.. to earn it.. and all Russia help is done undercover and use public relations
    to lure away Ukrainians to stop supporting kiev's war. Much better will also be that Russia undercover provide weapons to Kharkiv and Odessa to declare their independence and defend themselves and disband ukraine in parts ,But this have to be done when Russia no longer see a possibility of dialogue with Europe or Kiev. and see a cold war instead. and see a major danger to their nation security American weapons there. I really think by the end of this year we will see more clearly future of Ukraine.. if the economic collapse will force kiev to be cooperative with Russia.. or if the country will disband and make easier for Russia to end American influence in ukraine. and Restore order there.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #15

    Post  whir on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:44 pm

    Rodinazombie wrote:just compare the german army in 1944-45 on the western and eastern fronts. They fought like hell against the red army, knowing what was coming to them, but on the west they were surrendering in their droves.
    But that wasn't a consequence of soviet treatment of POW but of German treatment of Soviet POW and Soviet population.

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