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    [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

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    collegeboy16
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    [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun May 31, 2015 2:59 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    That is simply untrue. Most repairs on the T-72 are easy fixes. We're not speaking about airfilters, oil filters, we're speaking about rupture of fuel line, issues with NBC etc etc. The M1 is a maintenance hell, not the first time tankers tell about it. And if you DON'T have the log line to keep up with it, or the cost defies your imagination (Egyptian M1's refurbishment cost per decade double the price of the tank at 6 million USD) you are bound to have hightech over-expensive pill boxes. Did I tell you about fuel consumption? Czech cost for the 72M1/2/4 is about 120K USD. Russian one is roughly 80K. Ukrainian one about 100K per tank. You can't simply compare the prices. As for engine being prone to breakdown after a month use? Huehueheueh. The Abrams availability is under 10 hours between checks. The T72S's that the militias have been using ahve been going for weeks straight. WEEEKS. Never mind the T55's the Daesh assholes have been using some times without any service for months.

    I guess you are mistaking expendable for unreliable.
    whatever the crew can fix, its not that complex to begin with. you can also do the same with the Abrams, but the difference is that you dont need to do as much ad hoc duct tape solutions since uncle Sam's logistics is behind you- if its behind you and you have the money to pay that is.

    a month of lifetime before engine breakdown is with extreme use ofc. in the hot and dusty and very debris riddled Syrian streets where most of the movement is start. move a bit in first gear, then stop and combat taking the better part of a day, otherwise nonstop kind of affairs.

    and yes, you can operate these machines way beyond their scheduled maintenance checks, but then murphy's law manifests itself a lot more, performance is gimped(dont tell me those Syrian tanks could do tank ballet anymore) and worse, it could just as well kill you. like that T-55 in Libya i think that just went up and blew itself while firing due to cooling failure.

    10 hours? i think thats with the dust filters clogging up way back in the first Gulf War, they solved it a long time ago.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun May 31, 2015 7:20 pm

    What would it take to put an A-190 or at least AK-176 Gun on an armata chassis? The danes succeeded in putting a 76mm OTO melara gun on an leopard 1 chassis



    The obvious problem would be height and storing enough ammo, but if these feats are accomplished an armata with an automatic high velocity 100mm gun would be a devastating BMPT, not to mention providing excellent low level air cover.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Werewolf on Sun May 31, 2015 7:39 pm

    Tankist uniform 6B15




    PROTECTION FOR CREWS OF ARMORED VEHICLES B «COWBOY»



    10.03.2014 More than three hundred of the latest protective kits "Cowboy" got the tank connection of the Mulino garrison in the Nizhny Novgorod region. This is the first connection of the WMD, the weapons which had been this unique outfit. Previously the uniforms of tank crews did not include any funds individual fire, heat, armor. Kit weighing 6.5 kg consists of protective coveralls, body armor and ballistic pads on regular headset. SOLDIERS OF THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY AND ITS WEAPONS


    27.11.2014 two Hundred sets of individual protective suits B "Cowboy" entered service in individual peacekeeping infantry brigade, stationed in the Samara region, the press service of the Central military district. The structure of the protective equipment of the "Cowboy" is part of the ballistic body armor of the 1st class protection, fire retardant suit and a special dust cover on the tank headset. The vest includes a detachable chest and back section. In his case placed pockets for storing equipment and staffing evacuation device. Dust cover headset can withstand the ingress of fragments with a mass of one gram, flying at speeds up to 460 m/s. External bulletproof vest covers, overalls and cover plate is made of a flame resistant fabric in camouflage colors. Operational temperature range is from -50 to +50 degrees Celsius. Kit weighing 6.5 kg provides reliable protection for your shoulders, neck and groin area, does not hinder the actions of the crew in battle and protects 80% of the body surface from exposure to open flame for 10-15 seconds, informs the staff of the CVO. Delivery took place in accordance with the plan of implementation of the state defense order in 2014. Military-industrial courier


    PROTECTIVE KIT FOR the CREWS of ARMORED vehicles B "COWBOY" At the International exhibition MVSV-2006 was presented protective kit B "Cowboy", which was developed by the research Institute SM. In the framework of the ROC "Cowboy" (developer NIBM cnism in Khotkovo commissioned GRAU RA is developed protective kit (gear) for crews of armored vehicles. In the framework of the ROC "moonwalker" JSC Nestali develops a protective headset. Kit "Cowboy" produced by the center AMOCOM. Set B "Cowboy" is designed to protect the various crews of armored vehicles from the injurious effects of the elements that appear inside the fighting compartment, as well as from thermal effects. The kit includes: • Vest B-1, which protects the vital organs from the flow of secondary fragments arising in crew compartment of the BM with the breaking and saprobity armor; • dust cover (produced by the firm AMOCOM) on regular headset B-2, protecting the head against mechanical impacts during functional responsibilities of the crew members and secondary fragments, or tank headset TM-5 (produced Steel research Institute); • protective overalls B-3 (produced by the firm AMOCOM), which provides the fire, the heat shield most of the surface of the body from exposure to flame and high temperatures, or suit (research Institute of Steel). Weight of the entire set of 6.5 kg (AMOCOM) or 6kg (research Institute of Steel).




    The new protective gear "Cowboy" is part of the ballistic body armor of the 1st class protection, fire retardant suit and a special dust cover on the tank headset. According to the requirements of 50744-95 the armor of the 1st class of protection can protect people from being shot from a revolver type Revolver bullet of 7.62 mm lead-core and a Makarov pistol (PM) bullet caliber 9 mm with steel core. According to Dmitry Justina, a set of "Cowboy" provides reliable protection for your shoulders, neck, groin tank, it weighs 6.5 kg. Moreover, this kit does not hinder the actions of the crew in battle. In addition to this "Cowboy" protects 80% of the body surface of the tank from exposure to open flame for 10-15 seconds. Protective kit B became the first in the history of the Russian armed forces a comprehensive means of individual protection, designed for crew members of combat vehicles. This package implements adopted the concept of total differential protection. Development of protective kit B "Cowboy" was a significant step forward in the development of PPE for military technical branches of the armed forces of the Russian Army, requiring significant financial costs for their preparation. The vest has fabric protective screens on the basis of aramid with a hydrophobic treatment. The outer cover is made of flame resistant fabric camouflage coloring. The outer cover are pockets for placement of personal equipment. There is an evacuation device with the strength of at least 400 kgf. The vest includes a detachable chest and back section, and athlonii collar. In his case placed pockets, which are ideal for storing equipment and staffing evacuation device. The armor provides protection to the back and chest from shrapnel and bullets Makarov pistol fired from 5 meters. Ballistic resistance – a fragment of a mass of 1 gram. at speeds of up to 550 m/s or a fragment weighing 2 grams. at speeds up to 400 m/s. the Area of protection of the body more than 45 square inches Weight – less than 3.5 kg. Removable ballistic overlay from organoplastic is a rigid dome-shaped shell with lugs to accommodate radiochemistry headset. The body lining is placed in the case of flame-retardant fabric camouflage coloring. Designed to protect the head tank from splinter. Withstand the ingress of fragments with a mass of 1 g, flying at speeds up to 460 m/s. the Area of protection more than 8 square inches Weight pads – less than 0.8 kg Can be produced in both summer and winter version. Has the system of natural ventilation. Protection area – 160 sq. DM. Weight – less than 2.2 kg. Protective coverall is made of two separate parts: the jacket and trousers. Pants, the sleeves and the collar of the jacket is made of flame resistant fabric. On jacket sleeves, elbows, sewn-in shock-proof lining. In the armpit installed wedge mesh for ventilation pagodinho space. The jacket pockets are placed to accommodate personal equipment. Protection kit B "Cowboy" provides protection for the neck, shoulders and groin area tanker, transportation and placement of standard weapons, and other items that are standard military equipment of the armed forces. In addition, the suit ensures the smooth running of the entire spectrum of functional tasks by any member of the crew of a combat vehicle for 2 full days (48 hours). Armored elements of the costume are made from ballistic fabric on the basis of Russian high strength of Armos fibers having water - and oil repellent treatment. External bulletproof vest covers, overalls and lining made of flame-retardant fabric in camouflage colors. Details of the kit are resistant to open flame for 10-15 seconds. This protective kit ensures the preservation of their protective properties when exposed to atmospheric precipitation, after exposure to fuels and lubricants and special fluids used in the operation of military equipment, a 4-fold degassing, decontamination, disinfection. Operational temperature range is from -50 to +50 degrees Celsius. In 2003 adopted for service by the first version of the protective kit B "Cowboy", intended for crews of armored vehicles. Kit features supported by test results based on/h 61469 the defense Ministry and the Omsk higher tank engineering school. To date completed field tests, confirmed and exceeded stated in specification characteristics protection (body armor provides protection from exposure to damaging elements weighing up to 4.0 g with a speed of interaction V100 not less than 490 m/s ( claimed at least 400 m/s)), ( pad provides head protection from exposure to damaging elements weighing up to 1 g, at a speed V50 – not less than 530 m/s, a claimed 460 m/s. B "Cowboy" began to enter the Russian troops in August 2012. The first began to be equipped tank units of the southern military district. At the training ground in the Volgograd region in February 2013 tankers experienced a new outfit "Cowboy". In late 2013 the first batch of refractory sets B "Cowboy" has already been tried on the crews of armored vehicles from military connection cover of the Eastern military district, which is stationed in the Jewish Autonomous region. Currently the firm AMOCOM presents further development of protective kit B − protective kit for the crews of armored vehicles of missile troops and artillery B. Overall he repeated set B, but the new defensive set B were added winter jacket and pants made of fire retardant fabric and traffic vest. FEATURES the body Armor provides a level of protection not less than V100 400m/s, the Pad provides a level of protection not less than V50 m/S. Set B provides protection from exposure to open flame not less than 10s. Area protection • body armor no less DM, • overlays – DM, • jumpsuit – DM. Weight of not more than 6.5 kg.

    Source: http://bastion-opk.ru/cowboy/ OVT "WEAPONS of the FATHERLAND" A. V. Karpenko


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun May 31, 2015 7:46 pm


    its redundant. you got pantsirs- sorry tunguskas and tors for AD
    By that logic AA capability in BMPTs shouldn't exist at all,

    lots of IFVs with 45 mm guns for HE work
    An automatic 76-100mm gun would have far better range, antimaterial capability, suppression and HE firepower than any autocannon existing or that will exist. Not to mention guided shells for it would be far simpler and overall cheaper due to being larger.
    and ofc. the MBTs with high velocity gun against armored targets so no need.
    An MBT's cannon has far worse ROF , would carry less HE ammo, and it's shells would be more expensive due to being larger.


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Mike E on Sun May 31, 2015 10:48 pm

    I am back with...more questions...  Wink

    The new 2A82 gun and its' freeloader are (finally) able to fire considerably longer KE rounds than the T-72 "style". Would anyone have an estimate of how long they can be? 

    The highest-penetration APFSDS round (the M829A3) is close to 800 mm in length, 10 kilos (!) in weight, travels at ~1,550 m/s, and penetrates north of 750 millimeters RHAe at 2000 meters (DM63 penetrates 800 mm RHAe at 2000 meters assuming it is fired at 2000 m/s). Svinets is only ~4.9 kilos and 635 mm in length (flies at ~1700 m/s) yet it still penetrates over 650 mm RHAe at 2000 meters (honestly because 2 kilometers is the regular distance, I'll call it "testing" range or something like that). Knowing this, and the fact that the 2A82 can fire a much longer round...the 1 meter figure may be attainable.

     - Never-mind I figured this out myself... I'll update this post in a second.

    "Vacuum-1" (the first long rod developed specifically for the 2A82) is 900 millimeters in length....this may include the round in its' entirety and not just the penetrator, but the rod would be close to that figure nonetheless. 

    "Vacuum-2" is the same length, but composed of DU in place of what I can only assume to be Tungsten. Its' penetration would be ~10% superior to that of the "Vacuum-1".

    We know the 2A82 is 56 calibers long (7 meters) making it the longest ~120-125 mm barrel used today...combine that with a longer and heavy round and the penetration of one meter does not sound very far fetched.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun May 31, 2015 11:28 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    "Vacuum-1" (the first long rod developed specifically for the 2A82) is 900 millimeters in length....this may include the round in its' entirety and not just the penetrator, but the rod would be close to that figure nonetheless. 

    "Vacuum-2" is the same length, but composed of DU in place of what I can only assume to be Tungsten. Its' penetration would be ~10% superior to that of the "Vacuum-1".

    We know the 2A82 is 56 calibers long (7 meters) making it the longest ~120-125 mm barrel used today...combine that with a longer and heavy round and the penetration of one meter does not sound very far fetched.
    you are mostly right but tiny nitpick:
    its the improved 2a82 gun or 2a82-1m which uses the 56 caliber barrel. the current gun we see only uses roughly about the same caliber as the current 125 mm guns. also the velocity gains are mostly due to the added propellant that supposedly makes the propellant mass of the new apfsds comparable to low ballpark of 140mm apfsds.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Mike E on Sun May 31, 2015 11:38 pm

    To be honest I can not tell you the difference between the two guns... The T-14 is equipped with the "2A82-1M" but the "2A82" appears to be the same gun *excluding the difference in length*. Possibly the 1M was developed especially for Armata i.e. no fume extractor or something like that.

    New propellants and a higher caliber gun should lead to rather drastic performance increases. If the current guns and ammunition are hitting ~1700 m/s than the 2A82-1M in combination with the "Typhoon" long rods should approach 100-200 m/s higher velocity. Not bad considering the extra length (and therefore weight) brought on by the new ammunition...

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Mike E on Sun May 31, 2015 11:58 pm

    Just re-read your post...

    Are you saying the prototypes seen as of now are using the 2A82 and not the improved variant?

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Mike E on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:29 am

    I invite you all to troll this guys' YT video on how "crap the T-14 is"....

    Ironically enough my comment on Sentinal's site was featured.


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  kvs on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:50 am

    Mike E wrote:I invite you all to troll this guys' YT video on how "crap the T-14 is"....

    Ironically enough my comment on Sentinal's site was featured.



    When did it get a chance to be overrated? The denigration troll army from NATO is fighting this propaganda war
    as if there is a flame under their collective asses. The T-14 must have been a bad shock to NATO planners
    who have gotten used to the taste of their own propaganda koolaid.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Mike E on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:57 am

    He seems to be the kind of guy that dismisses anything that is not American... At least he is willing to have a conversation with me in the comments.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:01 am

    Seriously any idiot that starts his argumentation about how something is not good by saying "it looks like shit from the 90's"...what kind of argument is that, that is the only tank of the 21st century, there is not a single tank besides T-14 on the most modern standards, hell even T-90A has more advanced technologies then most western tanks. Yes, it is revolutionary because in 10 years it will be the 2nd Teletank in existence not only that it will have automatization beyond capabilities what the west has ever shown. Till this very date there are barely any innovations and inventions the West has brought to the tank, while almost every tank technology used today as a standard on MBT is russian by origin. APFSDS, APS, ERA, Composite Armor, EODS, EMT etc. pp.

    Youtube experts are as much worth as F-16.net 14 year olds. Everything russian is always the biggest crap and every failure the US spits out like M60 MG or M16 is glorified gods weapons.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Book. on Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:59 am

    He tank expert no. jsut stopid kid

    forgo him lol1

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Mike E on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:13 am

    We argued for a bit... He's brainwashed with his own dreams for sure. - I do recommend disliking his video though... Twisted Evil

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  OminousSpudd on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:24 am

    Mike E wrote:We argued for a bit... He's brainwashed with his own dreams for sure. - I do recommend disliking his video though... Twisted Evil

    He'll just turn it around and say he has been hit by Putin's troll army and therefore must be right. No point talking with or even viewing his video.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Mike E on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:25 am

    You won't give him a view if you don't watch it... Dislike, leave, and you're all good.

    Off Topic

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  collegeboy16 on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:28 am

    Mike E wrote:I invite you all to troll this guys' YT video on how "crap the T-14 is"....

    Ironically enough my comment on Sentinal's site was featured.

    nice, i was both outraged and keeling from laughter at the end of the video. seriously this sh!t is fcking hilarious and outrageous. best part is:
    "the turret is nowhere near as angular as the T-90, which makes it susceptible to any round out there.". OMG, this inbred SOB delivers!!!

    i like that there is a buddy commentator to keep the circlejerk going. next time they should add even more mor0ns on skype or something, that should add to the hilarity, tho the iq level would be nowhere north of room temperature.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:36 am

    Try not to waste thread quality with Youtubers that call themselfs experts and throw around some RHAe protection estimations like they are some damn fact...

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Mike E on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:51 am

    Werewolf wrote:Try not to waste thread quality with Youtubers that call themselfs experts and throw around some RHAe protection estimations like they are some damn fact...
    Sorry about that... I just was so enraged by the fact he actually linked to one of my comments.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  collegeboy16 on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:51 am

    Mike E wrote:In that case...it's a possibility. 

    IMHO the gun might seem all that long because it seems to be placed pretty far into the turret... I'll check.
    no it isnt:

    the trunnions are still where they are in the older gun. if the guns are a bit further back they should be a bit further front which they are not.

    also, about the T-15 IFV, it looks quite possible the turret bustle could hold spare Kornets instead of 30/45mm rounds. maybe a robotic arm could be rigged that could reload the missiles in the launchers.


    Last edited by collegeboy16 on Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:57 am

    Yes, i read the comments he said the "armor RHAe estimations are not just some guesses, they are fact"....everything you need to know about someone who has no crap idea about tanks.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  mutantsushi on Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:00 am

    look, those are factual estimations, OK, end of thread... Rolling Eyes

    seriously, is there any substance to this talk of 2A82 vs. 2A82-1m?
    would "vanilla" version be used on any other platform? sprut modernization? i read it would use t-90 gun...?

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  collegeboy16 on Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:14 am

    mutantsushi wrote:look, those are factual estimations, OK, end of thread... Rolling Eyes

    seriously, is there any substance to this talk of 2A82 vs. 2A82-1m?
    would "vanilla" version be used on any other platform?  sprut modernization? i read it would use t-90 gun...?
    only had this badly google translated article. dunno if original article is official.
    https://www.facebook.com/Russ.army/posts/849382895083842
    much better, but still not official if i understand correctly: http://www.militarists.ru/?p=8109
    ok, no explicit mention of 2a82-1m designation. but they mentioned modernization and i just ran with it. m is for modernization right, and the article did mention another planned modernization this time of ETC tech. nature so the 1 makes sense.

    maybe, tho it would have to be a barrel with fume extractor and for Sprut's case the gun modified to have longer recoil stroke and some more recoil dampeners.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:15 am

    Little off topic but here is a tip for y'all next time, trolling for short periods of time under a different name on a YouTube video or a site can be very fun. As many are aware it takes more energy to counter bullsh!t than to spread it so why bother. Instead of trying to counter some mental midget with facts, have some fun with them and see how mad you can get them. I'll be off trolling on that Armata video Mike E had.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion Τhread #4

    Post  Mike E on Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:39 am

    Ivan I might join in on the fun Twisted Evil

    Ironically the one post of mine he didn't respond to was the one where I shut him down...

    Off topic though..

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