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    Russian Economy General News: #5

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    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:21 pm

    Vann. The interest rates concept didnt work. I dont know where you have been but Russias currency devalued heavy even after they increased interest rates to 17%. I am pretty certain that they realized they screwed up so they slowly lowered it, in hopes of not creating a ripple effect.  But the Rouble is gonna devalue, even though interest rates are right now at 11%, and last figures showed that Russian companies lost somewhere around $20B due to high interest rates, and the currency still crashing. It has nothing to do with any of this now but simply oil and gas.

    Only thing I see them doing is hording the forex with USD and other commodities, then when they have enough, they will dump it in purchases of roubles which will drastically up the value of it.

    Your last part is correct. But how do you figure Russia is going to move to an import substitution industry and improve domestic consumers demand, if they make credit unnafordable to obtain? Therr are indeed venture funds and other little tricks, but in the end, cold hard cash is going to be what helps. Not all these tax exemptions and what not. Cause I cant obtain workspace of a shop, equipment and materials, and a workforce to do something if I dont have any money to begin with.

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:54 pm

    Well, most experts predict that interest rates will stay at 11% till end of this year. Since upping the interest rates did squat, besides making import substitution harder/more expensive, I doubt they will raise it.

    What this will do is greatly stunt Russias economic development and diversification. All the morons in Russia who keep prancing around and saying that the gov needs to diversify, need to turn their attention to the real culprits who helped prevent that....CBR.

    Anyway, import substitution and domestic consumption/development will happen, just in a much slower pace. As well, Russians cannot not spend for forever, there will be an eventual growth (then decline, then growth, then decline, repeate) so domestic producers will get business. Iran survived off of 18% interest rates for decades, and managed to develop. So I figure Russia can too. Maybe Rus gov can give some sort of tax exemption specifically for import substitution industry to help so its easier for the companies to pay back the loans. As well with government giving an injection of finances to help as well.

    I think Russia will end up back as a planned economy, but mixed in this case. Planned economy for strategic and large enterprises, while free economy for the rest. Best option really.

    JohninMK
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:34 am

    Russia is not alone in having problems, it just gets more publicity!

    Unlike those oil producers whose currencies follow the US$ Russia's does not, it is floating. The effect of this over the last 12 months has been that the price that Russia has received for its oil has not dropped in ruble terms anything like the headline figures.

    This time last year Brent was around $100 and there were about 35 ruble to the US$, now it is around 45 and 70 respectively. So when that income is converted and used as rubles in Russia there is not much difference. Clearly there is a dramatic drop in the number of US$ that can be spent on imports, repaying loans etc. But all is not bad as long as the ruble tracks the US$ down.

    Other currencies are reacting similarly, if not quite so dramatically, the Norwegian Kroner has dropped over 30% for instance which, when combined with the Russian food sanctions, is hitting them hard, but then you seldom read about that as it is not on the West's MSM whilst Russia's problems are front page.

    Even the in the US there are problems where their income from oil sales has more than halved, resulting in the forthcoming decimation of the shale industry, along with serious drops in profits and hence tax revenues.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  zg18 on Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:26 am

    JohninMK wrote:Russia is not alone in having problems, it just gets more publicity!

    Unlike those oil producers whose currencies follow the US$ Russia's does not, it is floating. The effect of this over the last 12 months has been that the price that Russia has received for its oil has not dropped in ruble terms anything like the headline figures.

    This time last year Brent was around $100 and there were about 35 ruble to the US$, now it is around 45 and 70 respectively. So when that income is converted and used as rubles in Russia there is not much difference. Clearly there is a dramatic drop in the number of US$ that can be spent on imports, repaying loans etc. But all is not bad as long as the ruble tracks the US$ down.

    Other currencies are reacting similarly, if not quite so dramatically, the Norwegian Kroner has dropped over 30% for instance which, when combined with the Russian food sanctions, is hitting them hard, but then you seldom read about that as it is not on the West's MSM whilst Russia's problems are front page.

    Even the in the US there are problems where their income from oil sales has more than halved, resulting in the forthcoming decimation of the shale industry, along with serious drops in profits and hence tax revenues.

    X2

    Actually worst thing to have is having currency pegged to the Dollar. Saudis are spending like 12$ billion a month to maintain the peg... yes they have big reserves but that is at least 150$ billion spent yearly to maintain it.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:49 am

    zg18 wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Russia is not alone in having problems, it just gets more publicity!

    Unlike those oil producers whose currencies follow the US$ Russia's does not, it is floating. The effect of this over the last 12 months has been that the price that Russia has received for its oil has not dropped in ruble terms anything like the headline figures.

    This time last year Brent was around $100 and there were about 35 ruble to the US$, now it is around 45 and 70 respectively. So when that income is converted and used as rubles in Russia there is not much difference. Clearly there is a dramatic drop in the number of US$ that can be spent on imports, repaying loans etc. But all is not bad as long as the ruble tracks the US$ down.

    Other currencies are reacting similarly, if not quite so dramatically, the Norwegian Kroner has dropped over 30% for instance which, when combined with the Russian food sanctions, is hitting them hard, but then you seldom read about that as it is not on the West's MSM whilst Russia's problems are front page.

    Even the in the US there are problems where their income from oil sales has more than halved, resulting in the forthcoming decimation of the shale industry, along with serious drops in profits and hence tax revenues.

    X2

    Actually worst thing to have is having currency pegged to the Dollar. Saudis are spending like 12$ billion a month to maintain the peg... yes they have big reserves but that is at least 150$ billion spent yearly to maintain it.
    Actually there's a little problem with the so called Saudi Reserves. They don't compute with the Kingdom's books. As there are mirroring accounts between "Forex Reserves" and SCB assets, the Saudis themselves don't know exactly how much they've burnt so far.

    Worse the Balance of accounts is suspected to have been in the negative long before the mid 2014, and was kept secret. This is mostly due to the way Saudi Arabia avoided Arab Spring style trouble, by showering in cash all the people it could. That spending too is under-reported.

    The other problem is that the internal competition with fellow salafi idiots from UAE and Qatar has seen Foreign direct investment move out to the other crazies.

    And last but not least, there seems to have been a theft spree during the later years of the late Abdallah with money being in books, but not at the bank.

    So maybe this is going to be even more interesting...

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:44 am

    Black Monday for the ruble - what's next?

    I think an important read.

    "The import of oil and oil products to China is not something that does not fall, on the contrary, grows. The end of the year we're definitely going to see the good and the sharp recovery in prices for raw materials, but as they say, all the time. However, even the current levels to buy with a horizon of several months is a very, very attractive. The ruble is still too white stripe will be to the end of the current year and marks 60-65 in tandem with the dollar we are likely to see," — said Oliynyk.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  Viktor on Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:08 am

    Great thumbsup

    Economic Development Minister: Russia, ASEAN approve more than 50 investment projects

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:00 am

    Basically they claimed that Lukashenka is going down together with Putin

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3210537/Belarus-ruble-takes-hit-hurt-Russias-economic-woes.html

    Belarus' ruble takes a hit, hurt by Russia's economic woes

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:56 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:Basically they claimed that Lukashenka is going down together with Putin

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3210537/Belarus-ruble-takes-hit-hurt-Russias-economic-woes.html

    Belarus' ruble takes a hit, hurt by Russia's economic woes

    They were called the daily fail for a reason.

    Kazakhstan and Belarus relies upon export, especually to Russia (and China now). So with a stronger Tenge and Belarussian rouble, they were now finding it hard to cope with major loss in sales. Apparently export from the countries to Russia as example dropped, all the way to the point it was cheaper for Kazakhstans enterprises to buy steel from Russia rather than domestic. So with it lower, makes them far more competitive to sell to Russia and China. As well, since the currencies are now getting closer to each other to match, they wint find drastic increase in prices when they import end goods from Russia again.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  Austin on Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:02 pm

    MAYOR macroeconomic forecast includes a conservative scenario with the price of oil at $ 40
    http://tass.ru/ekonomika/2211002

    In this scenario, the recession will last until 2017, the dollar will stay above 75 rubles for 3 years


    MOSCOW, 26 August. / TASS /. The basic version of the updated macroeconomic forecast of Economic Development provides oil price of 55-60 dollars per barrel in the years 2016-2018, and allows a conservative $ 40 per barrel throughout the three-year plan. About this newspaper "Vedomosti", read the text of the document.

    The Russian economy was first tested on the $ 40 per barrel, said one official familiar with the calculations of the Ministry.

    In this scenario, the recession will last until 2017, the dollar will stay above 75 rubles all of the following three-year and soar to 78 rubles in 2018, the inflation rate because of this will accelerate to 8.8, respectively, and 7% in 2016 and 2017, and Only in 2018 will be able to lower it below 6%.


    The population will have to accept a decline in real disposable income, as it will last until 2017, until this year, will shrink and retail.

    For $ 55, and especially the $ 60 per barrel at the Ministry of Economic Development is hope for the resumption of investment activity - in the country have a lot of liquidity, which is afraid of investing, explains one official. $ 40 per barrel bury this hope - in this scenario the fall of investment in capital investments will continue until 2018.

    The option that the Ministry considers conservative, it can become the base, notice several officials familiar with the document. Oil prices close to $ 40 - the current reality, the two officials have warned the Ministry of Finance. At the same official financial bloc of the government believes that the entire three-year $ 40 - it's too hard; but in 2016 the budget should be to lay roughly.

    The difference between the lost income of the conservative scenario and the June projections is huge - 2 trillion rubles in 2016 and 2.5 trillion in 2017, estimates Alexander Suslin of the Expert Economic Group. These estimates are similar to the calculations of the Finance Ministry, said one of the participants in the discussions. The Ministry of Finance may underestimate the numbers, but even the most moderate estimates of the Reserve Fund will not survive 2017, says one official familiar with the document Ministry of Economic Development.

    Given the difference between the nominal GDP in the previous forecast and in the conservative scenario, and given the fact that the federal budget revenues amount to 16-17% of GDP, the additional lost income in the conservative scenario in 2017 and 2018 will amount to at least 953 billion and 1.2 trillion rubles respectively. The reserve fund, even on the basis of previous calculations, at the end of 2017 will have to stay a total of 510 billion rubles, ie, in 2017 he was already gone, and still have a hole not covered by reserves, about 400 billion rubles.

    There are three ways to cover the gap - to reduce costs, to take money from the National Welfare Fund, to run monetary financing, the official continued: "This is a real crossroads in front of the government now."

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:12 pm

    Ah predictions. They were not even 1% right the other times. They wont be now.

    It is a game of wait and see. The austerity people on tass keep pushing (and so called experts and economists) seem to fail to see that Austerity rarely, if ever, works.

    Russians are going to see this again. They will never learn till they put the economists on the chopping block.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:41 pm

    Oooops, that pesky old Law of Unintended Consequences again.

    Volkswagen and Hyundai are planning to take advantage of the weak ruble and boost production in their Russian factories of vehicles for export markets in the Middle East and Far East, company representatives announced this week.

    In the coming weeks, Hyundai will begin delivering the Solaris, produced in its Russian factory, overseas to Egypt and Lebanon, the company's Russian head office stated on August 25. By the end of August, the carmaker's Russian factory will have produced a pilot batch of 550 cars, and has plans to deliver around 4,000 cars to countries in the Middle East by the end of the year. "We have carried out a lot of work in order to be ready for the beginning of our cars' exports to the Middle East, and we consider that the recourse to new markets is our contribution to the development of Russian-produced export goods," said Choi Dong El, general director of Hyundai's Russian factory, which is located on the outskirts of St. Petersburg and employs more than 2,200 people, who produce 200,000 cars a year.

    Sergey Tselikov, head of Russian automobile analytical agency Autostat, told Izvestiya that foreign producers in Russia are able to take advantage of the greater capacity of Russian car factories: "The real capacity of Russian car production is three million cars per year, and I estimate that this year around 1.2 million will be built. The factories are working at 50 percent of their total capacity, so it's logical to look to replace the falling demand in our country with demand from other markets," said Tselikov, who estimated the potential export volume at 150,000 – 200,000 cars a year.

    On Tuesday, Marcus Ozegovich, general director of Volkswagen Group Russia, told Izvestiya that along with Hyundai, his company has plans to take advantage of the weakness of the Russian currency and boost exports to countries that share a border with Russia. "I'm not talking about exports to the Commonwealth of Independent States [CIS], which we have been doing for a long time, I have global exports in mind." "It's not that simple: there are global export currents, agreements, logistical expenses, tax and customs nuances of different countries, and so on." "It's quite a significant challenge for us, which eventually will allow us to improve our quality here."

    The plan to increase production for exports to wider markets is an unprecedented step for foreign car manufacturers based in Russia, where production has traditionally focused on the car market in Russia and the CIS. Cars for the export market have instead been largely produced by Russian carmakers such as AvtoVAZ, which manufactures the Lada, as well as UAZ, manufacturer of off-road vehicles, and GAZ and KAMAZ, which make trucks.

    Car expert Igor Morzheretto told Izvestiya that exports from Russia could even end up in the Western European car market: "Western Europe could be among the regions which import such budget cars. For example, when Renault developed the Romanian Dacia brand, in the beginning it was also supposed that these cars are only for developing countries, and now you can see them anywhere in the European Union," explained Morzheretto, who named the Volkswagen Polo sedan, which is produced only in Russia at the Volkswagen factory in Kaluga, as one such possible export.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150826/1026213077.html#ixzz3jw5lrD6B

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    russian economy

    Post  medo on Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:36 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Oooops, that pesky old Law of Unintended Consequences again.

    Volkswagen and Hyundai are planning to take advantage of the weak ruble and boost production in their Russian factories of vehicles for export markets in the Middle East and Far East, company representatives announced this week.

    In the coming weeks, Hyundai will begin delivering the Solaris, produced in its Russian factory, overseas to Egypt and Lebanon, the company's Russian head office stated on August 25. By the end of August, the carmaker's Russian factory will have produced a pilot batch of 550 cars, and has plans to deliver around 4,000 cars to countries in the Middle East by the end of the year. "We have carried out a lot of work in order to be ready for the beginning of our cars' exports to the Middle East, and we consider that the recourse to new markets is our contribution to the development of Russian-produced export goods," said Choi Dong El, general director of Hyundai's Russian factory, which is located on the outskirts of St. Petersburg and employs more than 2,200 people, who produce 200,000 cars a year.

    Sergey Tselikov, head of Russian automobile analytical agency Autostat, told Izvestiya that foreign producers in Russia are able to take advantage of the greater capacity of Russian car factories: "The real capacity of Russian car production is three million cars per year, and I estimate that this year around 1.2 million will be built. The factories are working at 50 percent of their total capacity, so it's logical to look to replace the falling demand in our country with demand from other markets," said Tselikov, who estimated the potential export volume at 150,000 – 200,000 cars a year.

    On Tuesday, Marcus Ozegovich, general director of Volkswagen Group Russia, told Izvestiya that along with Hyundai, his company has plans to take advantage of the weakness of the Russian currency and boost exports to countries that share a border with Russia. "I'm not talking about exports to the Commonwealth of Independent States [CIS], which we have been doing for a long time, I have global exports in mind." "It's not that simple: there are global export currents, agreements, logistical expenses, tax and customs nuances of different countries, and so on." "It's quite a significant challenge for us, which eventually will allow us to improve our quality here."

    The plan to increase production for exports to wider markets is an unprecedented step for foreign car manufacturers based in Russia, where production has traditionally focused on the car market in Russia and the CIS. Cars for the export market have instead been largely produced by Russian carmakers such as AvtoVAZ, which manufactures the Lada, as well as UAZ, manufacturer of off-road vehicles, and GAZ and KAMAZ, which make trucks.

    Car expert Igor Morzheretto told Izvestiya that exports from Russia could even end up in the Western European car market: "Western Europe could be among the regions which import such budget cars. For example, when Renault developed the Romanian Dacia brand, in the beginning it was also supposed that these cars are only for developing countries, and now you can see them anywhere in the European Union," explained Morzheretto, who named the Volkswagen Polo sedan, which is produced only in Russia at the Volkswagen factory in Kaluga, as one such possible export.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150826/1026213077.html#ixzz3jw5lrD6B

    This is exactly what I said for some time ago. Russia will become extremely powerful concurent for the West in the international market. They produce their products now with the same high quality as the west with similarly economically and ecologically effective industry, but Russia not only have cheaper currency, but also far lower taxes and debts to pay. EU have large debts and they simply could not lower the taxes, actually they are increasing taxes, that they could pay interests for public debts and to pay public sector.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:36 pm

    medo wrote:
    This is exactly what I said for some time ago. Russia will become extremely powerful concurent for the West in the international market. They produce their products now with the same high quality as the west with similarly economically and ecologically effective industry, but Russia not only have cheaper currency, but also far lower taxes and debts to pay. EU have large debts and they simply could not lower the taxes, actually they are increasing taxes, that they could pay interests for public debts and to pay public sector.

    There are a few reasons why the GDP/capita in Russia is lower than in the West. One of them is that the Russian economy and industries are not as well developed and efficient than their Western counterparts. So I think the highlighted part of your post is not correct. Russia is not yet on par with the West in this regard.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  kvs on Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:37 am

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    medo wrote:
    This is exactly what I said for some time ago. Russia will become extremely powerful concurent for the West in the international market. They produce their products now with the same high quality as the west with similarly economically and ecologically effective industry, but Russia not only have cheaper currency, but also far lower taxes and debts to pay. EU have large debts and they simply could not lower the taxes, actually they are increasing taxes, that they could pay interests for public debts and to pay public sector.

    There are a few reasons why the GDP/capita in Russia is lower than in the West. One of them is that the Russian economy and industries are not as well developed and efficient than their Western counterparts. So I think the highlighted part of your post is not correct. Russia is not yet on par with the West in this regard.

    You have no clue what you are talking about. Your so called efficiency is nothing of the sort. This bogus metric is obtained by dividing
    the GDP by the active population and called "efficiency". Total, ludicrous nonsense. Efficiency is related to, you know, actual production.
    So you cannot use the whole GDP which includes the fluff called the "financial industry" and all of the extra territorial economic revenue
    you generate thanks to transnationals. You have to use the fraction of the GDP related to domestic production. Manufacturing in
    the USA is less than 20% of GDP. So start by comparing apples to apples.

    I will give you a counter example that utterly destroys this NATO propaganda BS. Russia can produce six Project 636.3 submarines
    for $2 billion dollars. One Japanese Soryu class sub which is no better and in the same category of diesel-electrics goes for $2 billion. Clearly
    Russia is way more efficient at producing this high tech product and the exchange rate of the ruble to the dollar simply cannot explain
    a factor of six difference in the price.


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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  zg18 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:29 am

    kvs wrote:I will give you a counter example that utterly destroys this NATO propaganda BS.   Russia can produce six Project 636.3 submarines
    for $2 billion dollars.   One Japanese Soryu class sub which is no better and in the same category of diesel-electrics goes for $2 billion.   Clearly
    Russia is way more efficient at producing this high tech product and the exchange rate of the ruble to the dollar simply cannot explain
    a factor of six difference in the price.  

    This , that is why we have GDP PPP measurement , which in case of Russia gives much better comparison of economic power with other powers than nominal GDP. In case of Russia GDP PPP is TWICE the size of nominal....

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:50 am

    Actually you just need to look at austerity measures being imposed on Greece by the EU to see what efficient and well developed commercial enterprises are in the west.

    The US and EU limits imports of NZ beef and dairy products because they can't compete with our farmers, but you think they are better than Russian farmers?

    Another superiority myth.

    With a devalued currency the Russias should be well set to compete on the international market for selling products... the high value of the western currencies means they can buy their raw materials cheaply and make money because of this, the Russians should be able to make money on the exchange rate making their raw domestic materials and labour cheap, and earn money because of the value of their currency compared with the value of their customers overseas.


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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:31 am

    kvs wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    medo wrote:
    This is exactly what I said for some time ago. Russia will become extremely powerful concurent for the West in the international market. They produce their products now with the same high quality as the west with similarly economically and ecologically effective industry, but Russia not only have cheaper currency, but also far lower taxes and debts to pay. EU have large debts and they simply could not lower the taxes, actually they are increasing taxes, that they could pay interests for public debts and to pay public sector.

    There are a few reasons why the GDP/capita in Russia is lower than in the West. One of them is that the Russian economy and industries are not as well developed and efficient than their Western counterparts. So I think the highlighted part of your post is not correct. Russia is not yet on par with the West in this regard.

    You have no clue what you are talking about.   Your so called efficiency is nothing of the sort.   This bogus metric is obtained by dividing
    the GDP by the active population and called "efficiency".   Total, ludicrous nonsense.   Efficiency is related to, you know, actual production.  
    So you cannot use the whole GDP which includes the fluff called the "financial industry" and all of the extra territorial economic revenue
    you generate thanks to transnationals.   You have to use the fraction of the GDP related to domestic production.   Manufacturing in
    the USA is less than 20% of GDP.   So start by comparing apples to apples.

    I will give you a counter example that utterly destroys this NATO propaganda BS.   Russia can produce six Project 636.3 submarines
    for $2 billion dollars.   One Japanese Soryu class sub which is no better and in the same category of diesel-electrics goes for $2 billion.   Clearly
    Russia is way more efficient at producing this high tech product and the exchange rate of the ruble to the dollar simply cannot explain
    a factor of six difference in the price.  


    Please, dont bother answering him. I answered him dozens of times and the dolt refuses to listen. He is simply trolling. Him and his other account.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:20 am

    sepheronx wrote:Please, dont bother answering him.  I answered him dozens of times and the dolt refuses to listen.  He is simply trolling. Him and his other account.

    Just tell him this.

    Most of the times Soyuz and Proton brought Western satellites and humans into the aerospace. U.S. bought RD-180 from Russia. The basic part of ISS is made and controlled by Russia.

    Titanium valley is inside Russia. Russia has the biggest titanium producer in the world. Titanium part of U.S. metallurgy companies are made in factories in Russia, by the hands and brains of Russian workers and engineers.

    Russia spearheaded in oil drilling technologies. It is Russia who taught the West how to drill oil in the past. Russia spearheaded in turbin drilling, angled drilling, branched drilling, drilling in harsh terrains, in the deep water...

    Russia is the Lord in nuclear technologies. They make zicron parts for the nuclear reactor cores. They manage to manufacture non-tritium H-bomb. They made Tsar Bomba. While U.S. H-bomb still needs tritium.

    In Russian and European cities, people live in industrially-made apartments and have well-organized large-scale heating system using the excessive heat from the power plant. Meanwhile the U.S. cities are literally gigantic village, people live in expensive hand-made wooden houses, and have no public heating system. U.S. people use individual heaters which is less effective and emit more carbon dioxide into the air.

    In Russian and European cities, there are well-organized public transport system. In U.S. people mostly travel from home to workplaces by private cars, which consumed more fuel and emitted more carbon dioxide.

    M1 Abrams is inferior to Leo 2, and is inferior to T-72B/T-80U/T-90A. Abrams was penetrated by 20mm gun in the rear. Abrams still use human loader while for long T-xx has used autoloader.

    F-15 was defeated by Su-30 in military exercises. Europe rejects M16 design and use the basic design of SVT and AK to make their own rifles. Meanwhile nobody match the popularity of AK... yet. NATO's 5,56mm is clearly inferior to Russian M43 7,62mm and M74 5,45mm.

    Etc etc.

    Prince Darling
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  Prince Darling on Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:53 am

    guys the best EU companies are obviously more efficient than russian ones in more or less ever consumer product segment.
    There are obviously some exeptions but you are blind if you think that EU in general is behind russian economy or even on par with russian economy.

    i am sorry if that upsets you. russia has a lot of catching up to do, branding and consumer comfort are the areas where most has to be done, functionality and quality of build not soo much, but Russian branding outside Russia is very very weak (very much doubt that the average person has heard of many russian brands outside energy/weapons/vodka sector)

    it will be very interesting to see, how russian industry reacts to the oil price drop and low value rubel (great news for them to be honest) and if they expand into foreign markets as i expect, now is the time that money will be going into non-energy sectors, as the oil and gas market wont be bringing in astronomical returns such as in the 100$ oil era.

    higurashihougi
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:18 pm

    Prince Darling wrote:guys the best EU companies are obviously more efficient than russian ones in more or less ever consumer product segment.
    There are obviously some exeptions but you are blind if you think that EU in general is behind russian economy or even on par with russian economy.

    i am sorry if that upsets you. russia has a lot of catching up to do, branding and consumer comfort are the areas where most has to be done, functionality and quality of build not soo much, but Russian branding outside Russia is very very weak (very much doubt that the average person has heard of many russian brands outside energy/weapons/vodka sector)

    it will be very interesting to see, how russian industry reacts to the oil price drop and low value rubel (great news for them to be honest) and if they expand into foreign markets as i expect, now is the time that money will be going into non-energy sectors, as the oil and gas market wont be bringing in astronomical returns such as in the 100$ oil era.

    The sector that Russia lags behind is marketing and market researches. That is the result of Soviet planned economy prior 1991. But there is no way that Russian industry/manufacture/science is inferior.

    That is the reason why a lot of Russian brands suffered terribly after 1991. But inside Western goods there are considerable number of Russian/Chinese/Japanese... parts.

    Remember. Titanium parts of Boeing is made by Russian.

    Russia being inferior in science is a myth.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:23 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    medo wrote:
    This is exactly what I said for some time ago. Russia will become extremely powerful concurent for the West in the international market. They produce their products now with the same high quality as the west with similarly economically and ecologically effective industry, but Russia not only have cheaper currency, but also far lower taxes and debts to pay. EU have large debts and they simply could not lower the taxes, actually they are increasing taxes, that they could pay interests for public debts and to pay public sector.

    There are a few reasons why the GDP/capita in Russia is lower than in the West. One of them is that the Russian economy and industries are not as well developed and efficient than their Western counterparts. So I think the highlighted part of your post is not correct. Russia is not yet on par with the West in this regard.

    You have no clue what you are talking about.   Your so called efficiency is nothing of the sort.   This bogus metric is obtained by dividing
    the GDP by the active population and called "efficiency".   Total, ludicrous nonsense.   Efficiency is related to, you know, actual production.  
    So you cannot use the whole GDP which includes the fluff called the "financial industry" and all of the extra territorial economic revenue
    you generate thanks to transnationals.   You have to use the fraction of the GDP related to domestic production.   Manufacturing in
    the USA is less than 20% of GDP.   So start by comparing apples to apples.

    I will give you a counter example that utterly destroys this NATO propaganda BS.   Russia can produce six Project 636.3 submarines
    for $2 billion dollars.   One Japanese Soryu class sub which is no better and in the same category of diesel-electrics goes for $2 billion.   Clearly
    Russia is way more efficient at producing this high tech product and the exchange rate of the ruble to the dollar simply cannot explain
    a factor of six difference in the price.  

    But Finland does produce a lot more per one citizen than Russia does. Finnish economy and industry is more efficient than the Russian one. This is why people in Finland have higher salaries and higher purchasing power than people in Russia. I wish Russia well but it is not a fully developed country yet.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:26 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Please, dont bother answering him.  I answered him dozens of times and the dolt refuses to listen.  He is simply trolling. Him and his other account.

    Just tell him this.

    Most of the times Soyuz and Proton brought Western satellites and humans into the aerospace. U.S. bought RD-180 from Russia. The basic part of ISS is made and controlled by Russia.

    Titanium valley is inside Russia. Russia has the biggest titanium producer in the world. Titanium part of U.S. metallurgy companies are made in factories in Russia, by the hands and brains of Russian workers and engineers.

    Russia spearheaded in oil drilling technologies. It is Russia who taught the West how to drill oil in the past. Russia spearheaded in turbin drilling, angled drilling, branched drilling, drilling in harsh terrains, in the deep water...

    Russia is the Lord in nuclear technologies. They make zicron parts for the nuclear reactor cores. They manage to manufacture non-tritium H-bomb. They made Tsar Bomba. While U.S. H-bomb still needs tritium.

    In Russian and European cities, people live in industrially-made apartments and have well-organized large-scale heating system using the excessive heat from the power plant. Meanwhile the U.S. cities are literally gigantic village, people live in expensive hand-made wooden houses, and have no public heating system. U.S. people use individual heaters which is less effective and emit more carbon dioxide into the air.

    In Russian and European cities, there are well-organized public transport system. In U.S. people mostly travel from home to workplaces by private cars, which consumed more fuel and emitted more carbon dioxide.

    M1 Abrams is inferior to Leo 2, and is inferior to T-72B/T-80U/T-90A. Abrams was penetrated by 20mm gun in the rear. Abrams still use human loader while for long T-xx has used autoloader.

    F-15 was defeated by Su-30 in military exercises. Europe rejects M16 design and use the basic design of SVT and AK to make their own rifles. Meanwhile nobody match the popularity of AK... yet. NATO's 5,56mm is clearly inferior to Russian M43 7,62mm and M74 5,45mm.

    Etc etc.

    I'm not saying that Russia does not excel in many different fields. But on average Russians are poorer than westerners. And per capita the Western economies produce more than the Russian economy does.

    The primary job for an economy is to generate wealth and security for the citizens of a country. The best measurement for this is the average purchasing power per capita. In Finland it is still a lot higher than in Russia, even if Finnish economy is not doing so well right now.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  max steel on Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:25 pm

    Finland Only country in the EU that managed a negative GDP. Finance minister Alexander Stubb and Foreign Minister Timo Soini (look up in dictionary what "timo" means in civilized languages) promise to CIA that they can do better: Says Stubb: "We only managed a -1% drop in GDP but guarantee that our new program will bring it down to -2% by year end". Soini chimes in: "We remain fully committed to the Baltification of Finland in accordance with out atlantist policies."




    Linked story and photo about Finns on 30 July in the center of Helsinki queing for charity bread at a food bank. With 22% real unemployment this is the only way for many people to survive. Finland's mainstream media does not want to show these pictures so as to expose the crumbling welfare state with a president and government exclusively preoccupied with building a EU superstate and NATO-led aggression against Russia. Exports to Russia down by 42% in May, more people beyond the poverty line.
    http://www.metro.fi/uutiset/a1387813312833


    Last edited by max steel on Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Karl Haushofer
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #5

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:27 pm

    max steel wrote:Finland Only country in the EU that managed a negative GDP. Finance minister Alexander Stubb and Foreign Minister Timo Soini (look up in dictionary what "timo" means in civilized languages) promise to CIA that they can do better: Says Stubb: "We only managed a -1% drop in GDP but guarantee that our new program will bring it down to -2% by year end". Soini chimes in: "We remain fully committed to the Baltification of Finland in accordance with out atlantist policies."




    Linked story and photo about Finns yesterday 30 July in the center of Helsinki queing for charity bread at a food bank. With 22% real unemployment this is the only way for many people to survive. Finland's mainstream media does not want to show these pictures so as to expose the crumbling welfare state with a president and government exclusively preoccupied with building a EU superstate and NATO-led aggression against Russia. Exports to Russia down by 42% in May, more people beyond the poverty line.
    http://www.metro.fi/uutiset/a1387813312833
    Yeah, Finland is in a gutter right now. Things are likely going to get worse before they get better.

    But Finns do live better than the Russians. You only have to cross the border from Finland to Russia to see a noticeable difference. Hopefully Russia will be able to close this gap in the future.

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