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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Stealthflanker on Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:20 pm

    Viktor wrote:With english subtitles - S-300V

    And Austin, Sujoy - the S-300V was meant to fight aero-ballistic targets from day one - I remember one of you asked that question a while ago (just cant remember who) Very Happy

    and from the day one it's also have directional warhead. Something which S-300P family did much later in 48N6D  Very Happy
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:47 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:and from the day one it's also have directional warhead. Something which S-300P family did much later in 48N6D  Very Happy

    True and other important things where:

    - From day one S-300V was 6 channel target engagement system (S-300P was 4)
    - Much better cross country mobility
    - Ability to engage aerodynamic, aero-ballistic and ballistic targets

    Vann7

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:56 am

    Viktor wrote:
    Stealthflanker wrote:and from the day one it's also have directional warhead. Something which S-300P family did much later in 48N6D  Very Happy

    True and other important things where:

    - From day one S-300V was 6 channel target engagement system (S-300P was 4)
    - Much better cross country mobility
    - Ability to engage aerodynamic, aero-ballistic and ballistic targets

    How many channels target engagement have the S-400?
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:06 am

    Vann7 wrote:How many channels target engagement have the S-400?

    - 10 target engagement channels

    - 20 missile channels

    That of course refers to domestic model. Export one is 6/6.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:06 am

    Viktor wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:How many channels target engagement have the S-400?

    - 10 target engagement channels

    - 20 missile channels

    That of course refers to domestic model. Export one is 6/6.


    So if you have 10 x S-400's domestic you can in theory engage 10x10 =100 targets at same time.?

    and then 100 x S-400s can engage 1,000 targets at same time too ..

    Another question could be if the Air defense network of the S-400 can effectively LOCK a target and report another S-400
    that the target is already in process to be destroyed so that No S-400 defense waste missiles on targets already locked and only attack
    the ones not being targeted?

    Asf

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Asf on Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:54 am

    Another question could be if the Air defense network of the S-400 can effectively LOCK a target and report another S-400
    that the target is already in process to be destroyed so that No S-400 defense waste missiles on targets already locked and only attack
    the ones not being targeted?
    Not only another S-400. What's for command and control battaries are. IIRC the data could be transmitted even to army AA units. Air Defence forces (or rather Space Defence forces, as air defence forces are now integrated with Space forces) has imho the most advanced automated control system in the whole Russian Army.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:17 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    Viktor wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:How many channels target engagement have the S-400?

    - 10 target engagement channels

    - 20 missile channels

    That of course refers to domestic model. Export one is 6/6.


    So if you have 10 x S-400's domestic you can in theory engage 10x10 =100 targets at same time.?

    and then 100 x S-400s can engage 1,000 targets at same time too ..

    Another question could be if the Air defense network of the S-400 can effectively LOCK a target and report another S-400
    that the target is already in process to be destroyed so that No S-400 defense waste missiles on targets already locked and only attack
    the ones not being targeted?

    ...Of course, it's totally integrated:

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    medo

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  medo on Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:46 pm

    Vann7 wrote:Another question could be if the Air defense network of the S-400 can effectively LOCK a target and report another S-400
    that the target is already in process to be destroyed so that No S-400 defense waste missiles on targets already locked and only attack
    the ones not being targeted?

    Of course, this is one of the basic tasks of IADS and that is why every battalion, regiment, brigade and higher have their command posts, to coordinate the work inside unit as well as with neighbor units.
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Viktor on Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:47 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    So if you have 10 x S-400's domestic you can in theory engage 10x10 =100 targets at same time.?

    and then 100 x S-400s can engage 1,000 targets at same time too ..

    Thats right and new you can easily calculate how many targets will 56 batteries be able to engage that will be delivered by the end of 2020. 92N6 can engage 10 targets with twice as

    missiles.Of course even after 2020 deliveries of S-400 will continue at great rate.

    Now Russia has about 220-240 92N6/36N6/9S32 missile guidance radar systems (one per battery) so you can calculate how many targets Russian S-300/400 can engage at once with

    how many missiles  Very Happy 



    [/quote]Another question could be if the Air defense network of the S-400 can effectively LOCK a target and report another S-400
    that the target is already in process to be destroyed so that No S-400 defense waste missiles on targets already locked and only attack
    the ones not being targeted?[/quote]

    Of course. Since before Vietnam war and some would argue even during WW2 (directing PVO guns) some primitive methods existed for target distribution.

    During the Vietnam war Russia had Krab/Vozdoh/ASURK command posts in place within S-75 batteries to calculate, prioritize and distribute targets among shooting radar systems so no

    overlapping would occur. Command posts are single most important thing because of their ability to calculate, prioritize and distribute (and much more) targets amoung themselves raising

    efficiency of the whole IADS by several times in comparison  when there are none in the team (take note that Serbia did not have command posts during NATO attacks).


    Look HERE

    And this is how integration of all command posts look like - Russian made IADS:

    For territorial PVO






    and for Army PVO






    and this is just the beggining because each command posts governs ELINT/ECM/ECCM/ finghter interceptor command posts etc etc ... its a madness Very Happy

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:50 pm

    Well not really.. No idea what a battery of 56 is ,so calculate for me.. lol

    when you say up to 240 you mean S-400s/S-300s units?  240 x 10 = 2,400


    However in my opinion.. I think a proper defense for a major conventional war ,with NATO ,Russia needs at least the capability
    to intercept at least 10,000 missiles,rockets,ballistics targets,planes and drones fired at the same time. and ideally about 40,000 in the eastern front alone.  Iran for example claims to have 12,000 missiles.. So for NATO that should be not a Major problem.

    However alternatively Russia can combine Pantsirs-S1 defenses with S-300s/400/. So for example to have 1,000 thousand of Pantsir
    mobile Sams deployed at Russian Borders could create a tremendous impenetrable wall for any missile flying very low up to visual altitude.
    and any few missiles ,rocket that manage to pass to be taken by S-300s/S-400s. In short border filled with automatic precision Gatling guns defenses should create a new impenetrable wall around their border with the right combination of radars.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Viktor on Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:00 pm

    Vann7 wrote:Well not really.. No idea what a battery of 56 is ,so calculate for me.. lol


    I meant to say that by 2020 Russia will have 56 S-400 batteries meaning it will be able to shoot with those 56 S-400 at 56 x 10 = 560 targets at once with 560 x 2 = 1120 missiles.

    Got it?


    Vann7 wrote:when you say up to 240 you mean S-400s/S-300s units?  240 x 10 = 2,400

    Nope, S-300 battery can guide 12 missiles on 6 targets so less than that.

    You need to count all S-400 and times 10 and than all S-300 times 6 and than will you get the number of the beast Very Happy

    + ofcourse all the other AD systems like TOR/PAncir/BUK-M1/M2/Osa-AKM/Igla etc
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:58 pm

    BIG one  thumbsup 

    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/736382

    A hypothetical enemy’s massive air raids will be simulated with the maximum possible number of cruise missiles and aircraft

    The air defense force will be using the S-400 Triumf and S-300 Favorit air defense systems, Pantsyr-S anti aircraft guns, Kasta-2.2 radars and Fundament-M automation system.
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    collegeboy16

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  collegeboy16 on Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:55 pm

    Viktor wrote:BIG one  thumbsup 
    now this is how one should flip the bird towards cockgarglers.
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    medo

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  medo on Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:39 pm

    Viktor wrote:BIG one  thumbsup 

    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/736382

    A hypothetical enemy’s massive air raids will be simulated with the maximum possible number of cruise missiles and aircraft

    The air defense force will be using the S-400 Triumf and S-300 Favorit air defense systems, Pantsyr-S anti aircraft guns, Kasta-2.2 radars and Fundament-M automation system.

    Russian PVO go through more and more trainings and exercises, so they get more and more skills and higher quality.  thumbsup 
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    zg18

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  zg18 on Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:08 am

    Not sure if posted



    S-400 factory , many ask about missile in the foreground? S-500 , S-400 large missile?

    http://i-korotchenko.livejournal.com/900591.html
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    collegeboy16

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  collegeboy16 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:57 am

    question: how much does the most common s-300/400 missile cost? are we talking a million dollars a piece or less?
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:16 am

    collegeboy16 wrote:question: how much does the most common s-300/400 missile cost? are we talking a million dollars a piece or less?

    What do you mean by "cost"?

    How do you define "cost" in this context?

    eridan

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  eridan on Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:31 am

    Cost could be defined as contracted value for missile production. Like MoD pays xxx million for production and delivery of xx missiles this year.

    Large and complex missiles like these cost several million dollars in the west. While surely a bit cheaper in Russia, i'd still guesstimate a single 48n6 missile to cost upward of a million dollars, possibly even two million. For comparison purposes, 9m55 rockets (smerch mlrs) were sold to the likes of Algeria and India for about a million dollars apiece. 48n6 missiles are likely to be more complex and more expensive.
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    Viktor

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:00 pm

    Going east - well during 2014, 3 S-400 regiments are scheduled for deployment

    S-400 Air Defense Systems to Protect Russia's Kamchatka
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:07 pm

    zg18 wrote:S-400 factory , many ask about missile in the foreground? S-500 , S-400 large missile?

    I should mention that this question had been answered more than a year ago on this site.

    It's a missile from the S-75 system, without its wings, interstage, and first stage, maybe undergoing conversion to a drone.
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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:28 pm

    Great news guys, new versions of the S-400 TEL will be 25% cheaper to produce, and 35% more fuel efficient thumbsup :

    "Aviation" modernized transport machine S-400

    Specifications are improved, and the cost decreased by 25%



    Scientific-Production Enterprise "Start" to them. AI Yaskina, part of the holding "Aviation" , has successfully completed testing of a new modification of the transport vehicle (TM) for the transport of missiles anti-aircraft missile system S-400.

    Thanks to new technological solutions NPP "Start" managed to reduce the cost of new TM 5T58-2 vers. 5 25% - from 11.6 million rubles to 8.7 million rubles, as well as a 35% cut in fuel consumption.

    An important advantage of 5T58-2 vers. 5 compared with the previous modifications - halving the load on the axle, which enables the system to the S-400 to move freely on all roads, including over rough terrain. The modernization of the tractor "BAZ" and semi "MWTP" Bryansk and plants Minsk, respectively, were replaced by similar machines that are produced at the plant "Ural" and ChMZAP. New equipment will reduce production costs 5T58-2 vers. 5 due to the difference in price and reduce transport costs, since NPP "Start" and factories - manufacturers of components are concentrated in the Urals Federal District.

    Thanks to technological solutions Ural designers managed to reduce operating costs and reduce by 35% in fuel consumption. Manufacturer "Ural" has a more developed service network in Russia, which increases efficiency with operators. Moreover, the production capacity of the plant will be able to provide timely delivery trucks in the right amount, which should have a positive impact on the execution of orders for the Defense Ministry already in production volumes.

    Now being coordinated construction documentation, and then transport the machine will be accepted for service and the "Start" to receive permission for its serial production. In the near future, new transport vehicles will start arriving in the Russian Army.

    Modernization 5T58-2 vers. 5 was carried out in 2013 at the expense of its own funds.

    http://rostec.ru/news/4513688
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    RTN

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  RTN on Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:43 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Great news guys, new versions of the S-400 TEL will be 25% cheaper to produce, and 35% more fuel efficient thumbsup :

    IIRC , Russian TELs have historically been cheaper to produce compared to Western analogues .

    The major question however will be whether the S 500 can intercept an ICBM like Topol or Minuteman III ?
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    Werewolf

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:40 am

    RTN wrote:

    IIRC , Russian TELs have historically been cheaper to produce compared to Western analogues .

    The West and especially USA tends to overprice their equipment, like Abrams tanks more expensive than Leopard 2 tanks but are not even on par with them.
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    Mike E

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Mike E on Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:32 am

    RTN wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Great news guys, new versions of the S-400 TEL will be 25% cheaper to produce, and 35% more fuel efficient thumbsup :

    IIRC , Russian TELs have historically been cheaper to produce compared to Western analogues .

    The major question however will be whether the S 500 can intercept an ICBM like Topol or Minuteman III ?

    Minuteman 3? That thing dates all the way back to the 60s. 

    It can't perform advanced maneuvers, and can only deploy decoys, chaff etc.

    More advanced ICBMs, like the RS-24 and Topol-M, would prove a much more "competitive" adversary. Those are Russian missiles, so unless they fire upon themselves...

    That being said, the only way to find out is wait and see the final product.

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:59 am



    Russia advantage is that they have very modern state of the art Air and space defenses like S-400 and S-500 ,but also very modern
    and state of the art ICBMs .that only have months in service. So they can test their own air defenses with their own ballictic manuevarable warheads. Russia also have Kinetic projectiles with a small nuclear warhead in case their first defenses fail. So any Minuteman 3 launched from a submarine will need to bypass hundreds of S-400s or S-500s missiles attacks. And probably EMP attacks too that Russia have. before reach moscow and their nuclear defenses activate.

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