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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

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    Flagship Victory
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed May 20, 2015 2:51 pm

    update on the 2 captured Russian special forces

    http://news.yahoo.com/russian-captured-eastern-ukraine-says-fine-155645634.html

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  gregoire on Wed May 20, 2015 3:22 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I wonder if the Tatars in Crimea would be idiots to want to side with Poroshenko. Because he cant even help is own territories, and he is failing hard. It is no different than terrorist mufti calling for terrorism from Crimean tatars.

    No more military technical cooperation pretty much means the end of their economy. Russia apparently imports meat from Ukraine. Better stop that and no more money flow.

    The tatars have become popular (with both Turkey and Porky) since they are under russian rule. Before that ukraine didn't give a sh*t and Turkey always used them as some kind of bargaining chip (which I have no idea why because they may be turkic people they are definitely not "turkish").
    The tatar leaders shouldn't be so dumb to think they'll have it better then they have it now.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  gregoire on Wed May 20, 2015 3:24 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:update on the 2 captured Russian special forces

    http://news.yahoo.com/russian-captured-eastern-ukraine-says-fine-155645634.html

    I doubt they are russian officers or whatever. Under torture, of which the SBu is accused of almost weekly, anybody would say anything.
    Besides 2 russians does not an invasion make. A tad shy of 11000.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed May 20, 2015 7:03 pm

    Russia to take measures if putsch hosts American missiles near border with Russia in Kharkov oblast

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/795725

    OSCE making a big fuss about their UAVs saw NAF Strela 10 which they refer to as advanced Russian air defense systems. Um nop, Strela 10 are hardly advanced. Rolling Eyes

    http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-457-3-ukrainian-soldiers-9-wounded-with-heavy-fighting-in-shirokino-and-near-katerinovka/


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Wed May 20, 2015 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed May 20, 2015 7:08 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia to take measures if putsch hosts American missiles near border with Russia in Kharkov oblast

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/795725

    We saw this shit coming from a light year away, the whole coup was to put ABM's in Ukraine, the asswipes at the US State Dept. think we're idiots claiming their coup was there to help the Ukrainian people...those jackasses were'nt fooling no one!


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed May 20, 2015 7:09 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia to take measures if putsch hosts American missiles near border with Russia in Kharkov oblast

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/795725
    What measures? Put missiles in Cuba?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  flamming_python on Wed May 20, 2015 7:25 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia to take measures if putsch hosts American missiles near border with Russia in Kharkov oblast

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/795725
    What measures? Put missiles in Cuba?

    Let the rebels surge forth and conquer the missile systems in Kharkov.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Neutrality on Wed May 20, 2015 7:40 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Let the rebels surge forth and conquer the missile systems in Kharkov.

    Or much faster and more simple: all out attack on Mariupol to capture all of its industry. I understand that most of it is out of business already but taking it means that Ukraine won't have any chances to restart the economic potential in that region.

    I don't like what I'm suggesting myself. However, seeing how Poroshenko isn't stopping his shenanigans and warmongering rhetoric, there should be consequences to his stupidity. Every time Poroshenko or his "collegues" from the West open their mouths about Russian aggression, the NAF should conduct punitive measures. Capture a few checkpoints here and there or considerably reduce the chances of Ukrainian POWs being exchanged. Treat them like disobedient children. Like a parent who punishes his disobedient child.

    This complete and utter retard (Poroshenko) has started pissing me off lately so much that I really wish the NAF have assassination plans lying on the table.


    Last edited by Neutrality on Wed May 20, 2015 7:49 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  flamming_python on Wed May 20, 2015 7:46 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Let the rebels surge forth and conquer the missile systems in Kharkov.

    Or much faster and more simple: all out attack on Mariupol to capture all of its industry. I understand that most of it is out of business already but taking it means that Ukraine won't have any chances to restart the economic potential in that region.

    They don't anyway; even if the threat of hostilities restarting (and the Ukraine losing yet more territory) wasn't enough to deter any sane investment into a region so close to the front-line; it's largely a moot point because the Ukraine is broke anyway and no-one's interested in investing any money into it.

    Actually cap'ing Mariupol would play into Ukrainian hands, and allow them to claim rebel urban assaults as being as harsh towards innocents as theirs were.

    Much better to let the Ukrainians spend resources on holding down a city whose population is very unsympathetic to them, and having to be able to feed and support all those mouths somehow. It saps Ukrainian resources like nothing else.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Wed May 20, 2015 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Neutrality on Wed May 20, 2015 7:48 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Let the rebels surge forth and conquer the missile systems in Kharkov.

    Or much faster and more simple: all out attack on Mariupol to capture all of its industry. I understand that most of it is out of business already but taking it means that Ukraine won't have any chances to restart the economic potential in that region.

    They don't anyway; even if the threat of hostilities restarting (and the Ukraine losing yet more territory) wasn't enough to deter any sane investment into a region so close to the front-line; it's largely a moot point because the Ukraine is broke anyway and no-one's interested in investing any money into it.

    Editted the above post.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed May 20, 2015 7:54 pm

    Surprisingly reasonable (not perfect) article from unexpected source (Forbes):

    Ukraine Fight Flares Again: U.S. Should Keep Arms And Troops At Home

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2015/05/11/ukraine-fight-flares-again-u-s-should-keep-arms-and-troops-at-home/

    also here:

    http://russia-insider.com/en/ukraine-fight-flares-again-us-should-keep-arms-and-troops-home/ri7126

    The ceasefire in eastern Ukraine is under strain as Kiev presses the West for more financial and military aid. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko warns that full-scale war could explode “at any moment.” Yet many of his country’s young men are avoiding conscription into the no-win conflict. Americans’ sympathies should go to both Ukrainians and Russians suffering in Vladimir Putin’s deadly geopolitical games, but Washington should stay out of the battle.

    A century ago Europe was enveloped in death and destruction. The “Great War” raged, killing millions, ravaging nations, impoverishing peoples, and wrecking empires. Out of that conflict came the loosening of Russia’s control over multitude subject peoples, including in Ukraine. The Bolsheviks soon reversed the process, but their Soviet-Russian empire disintegrated in 1991. Again Kiev escaped outside domination, this time hopefully permanently.

    Independent Ukraine suffered mightily from internal divisions and poor governance. Politics was autocratic, abusive “oligarchs” dominated the largely unreformed economy. The country straddled the divide between Europe and Russia, with the Ukrainian people wanting greater Western integration without abandoning Russian ties. A strong majority rejected NATO membership, which Moscow would see as hostile.

    Kiev now effectively is a Russian enemy, despite continuing cross-border ties. Putin obviously bears immediate responsibility, having seized Crimea and promoted separatist conflict in the Donbas. However, the West did much to antagonize someone who, though a one-time KGB officer, appeared to bear America no special animus when the U.S.S.R. collapsed. Moreover, Putin accepted Ukraine even when ruled by Russian antagonist Viktor Yushchenko, since Kiev did not join the Western bloc.

    But Washington and Brussels consistently disregarded Russian security interests. The allies expanded NATO up to Russia’s borders; dismembered Serbia, historically linked to Russia; attempted to prevent Moscow’s participation in the post-war Kosovo settlement; pushed Ukraine to choose between East and West economically; and encouraged the ouster of an elected pro-Russian government in Kiev. Needless to say, Washington did not emphasize these factors when “countering Moscow’s deceptive propaganda with the unvarnished truth,” as explained the Obama administration’s 2015 National Security Strategy. .......................................................................... continue...

    Flagship Victory
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed May 20, 2015 7:57 pm

    A Chechen terrorist bit the dust in Lugansk region. cheers

    http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-457-3-ukrainian-soldiers-9-wounded-with-heavy-fighting-in-shirokino-and-near-katerinovka/

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed May 20, 2015 8:08 pm

    Ever since Kiev started that media BS-fest over those 2 "Russian Army" POWs there seems to be a surge in junta KIAs... or I could be imagining things... scratch

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    Edit: I got promoted to Sergeant!!! Three stripes baby!!! paratrooper thumbsup lol1

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  whir on Wed May 20, 2015 8:47 pm

    TheMedvedova wrote:Column MLRS Hurricane APU - Ukraine

    RT wrote:‘Kiev blames Russia as Ukraine approaches default’
    May 20, 2015 15:33

    As Kiev passes legislation allowing it to halt debt repayments, Russia is getting the blame, Jacques Sapir, from the School for Advanced Studies in the Social Sciences told RT.

    Ukraine says the newly passed legislation is aimed at countering "attacks from dishonest lenders." It described the halt of repayments as a matter of justice, given the poor state of the economy. It also called on foreign lenders to share Ukraine's burden.

    RT: What does this bill aim to achieve - a kind of 'technical default'?

    Jacques Sapir: Basically the bill is attempting to achieve a restructure but on Ukrainian terms. This is called by any means ‘default’. But the problem now is how not only countries but also international organizations will react to that. We have to remember that Greece is already in a similar situation and so far the situation has been much tenser between international organizations and Greece than with Ukraine. Continue reading.

    Sputnik wrote:Washington Throws in the Towel on Ukraine, Shifts to 'Plan B'
    POLITICS 19:26 20.05.2015(updated 19:34 20.05.2015)

    Obama has thrown in the sponge for Ukraine, Eric Zuesse underscored, adding that Washington is now "on-board with the ‘Plan B’ for Ukraine," which means implementing the provisions of the Minsk II accord.

    International media have failed to highlight the ultimate failure of Washington's policy in Ukraine, investigative historian Eric Zuesse emphasized, referring to remarks by US Secretary of State John Kerry in response to Petro Poroshenko's oath to retake Crimea and the Donetsk Airport.

    "I have not had a chance – I have not read the speech. I haven't seen any context. I have simply heard about it in the course of today [which would be shocking if true]. But if indeed President Poroshenko is advocating an engagement in a forceful effort at this time, we would strongly urge him to think twice not to engage in that kind of activity, that that would put Minsk in serious jeopardy. And we would be very, very concerned about what the consequences of that kind of action at this time may be," John Kerry said during a press conference in Sochi, as cited by the historian. Continue reading.

    Forbes wrote:Russia Violates Civil Rights Of Crimean Tatars In Occupied Crimea
    5/18/2015 @ 8:43AM

    Since Russia illegally annexed Crimea just over

    POST WRITTEN BY Yaroslav Brisiuck. Mr. Brisiuck is chargé d’affaires of Ukraine in the United States

    a year ago, life for Crimean Tatars – the indigenous people of the Crimean peninsula – is no longer safe. They endured kidnapping, disappearance and persecution by authorities, which has forced about 10,000 Tatars to leave their homeland. Those who’ve stayed are facing political discrimination and wider mistreatment. The Kremlin’s most recent persecution of Crimean Tatars is only the latest chapter in a saga of Russian abuse that dates back 71 years.

    This May marks the 71st anniversary of one of the gravest crimes perpetrated by the Soviet regime. In 1944, on the pretext of false accusations of state treason, Soviet leader Joseph Stalin ordered that 238,500 Tatars be forcibly deported from their homeland in Crimea as a form of collective punishment for their alleged collaboration with Nazis Germany from 1942 to 1943. The entire ethnic Crimean Tatar population, about one fifth of the total population of the Crimean Peninsula, as well as smaller number of ethnic Greeks and Bulgarians, were taken from their homes and transported mostly to Uzbekistan. Between July 1944 and January 1947, almost 110,000, or 46% of the deportees, died of starvation and disease. Many Tatars were made to work in large-scale projects implemented by the Soviet GULAG system. Continue reading.

    Yahoo wrote:Ukraine charges two suspected Russian soldiers with 'terrorist activity'
    AFP 6 hours ago

    Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine has charged two suspected Russian soldiers who were captured during a gun battle in the separatist eastern region of Lugansk with involvement in "terrorist activity", a security official said Wednesday.

    Ukrainian Security Service spokesman Markiyan Lubkivsky wrote on Facebook that Captain Yevgeny Yerofeyev and Sergeant Aleksander Aleksandrov, now convalescing in a Kiev military hospital, were also allowed to telephone their relatives in Russia.

    Moscow has said that the two men were once members of the Russian armed forces but had been demobilised by the time they crossed into the Ukrainian war zone nearly two months ago.

    The men are alleged to have testified during a taped interrogation that they were members of a 200-strong Russian reconnaissance unit that entered the warzone nearly two months ago. Continue reading.

    Radio Svoboda via Google Translate wrote:Харківянина засудили на 3 роки ув’язнення за сепаратизм (відео)
    Harkivyanyna sentenced to 3 years in prison on separatism (video)
    Anatoly majeure Published 05/20/2015

    Moskovsky District Court of Kharkiv on May 18 convicted head of the local "Historical and Christian social movement" ("outcomes" - Ed.) Oleg Novikov of encroachment on the territorial integrity of Ukraine. The court sentenced a man to three years in prison. Soft sentence explained that it invalid, repented and cooperated with the investigation. Continue reading.

    Lenta via Google Translate wrote:В ДНР заподозрили грузинский спецназ в захвате россиян в Донбассе
    The DNR suspected Georgian special forces in the capture of the Russians in the Donbas
    20:47, 20 May 2015

    The Ministry of Defence of the self-proclaimed DNI said that the seizure of the former Russian military personnel in the Luhansk region may be involved Georgian special forces. Reported Donetsk news agency referring to the statement by the Minister Edward Basurina.

    "The capture of the police in the LC, according to our intelligence, held Georgian intelligence group. These Georgian specialists know that we are hunting for them, and prefer to operate in the territory of Lugansk, "- he said.

    Basurin also said that from the prisoners in the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) is currently trying to achieve recognition of the fact that they are employees of the Russian GRU. Continue reading.

    TSN via Google Translate wrote:О какой Второй мировой войне молчали советские учебники
    What kind of World War II were silent Soviet textbooks
    May 10, 2015, 20:53
    Video

    Karl Haushofer
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed May 20, 2015 8:47 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia to take measures if putsch hosts American missiles near border with Russia in Kharkov oblast

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/795725
    What measures? Put missiles in Cuba?

    Let the rebels surge forth and conquer the missile systems in Kharkov.
    I wish it would go like that, but I doubt it very much.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 20, 2015 8:59 pm

    Wow.

    So uh, does Forbs have a list with names, photos and articles to the claimed Tatars being abused and murdered? Cause there is one for Ukrainian politicians and journalists.

    And I have an article of Tatars getting free stuff from the authorities. If there were abuses, I am pretty certain there would be actual evidence of such.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed May 20, 2015 9:13 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Wow.

    So uh, does Forbs have a list with names, photos and articles to the claimed Tatars being abused and murdered? Cause there is one for Ukrainian politicians and journalists.

    And I have an article of Tatars getting free stuff from the authorities. If there were abuses, I am pretty certain there would be actual evidence of such.

    Rolling Eyes ...This is quite pathetic from Forbes Magazine, even for their standards of sanctimonious hypocrisy. Lets go back in time and remind everyone that the Forbes family fortune has it's roots in the selling of Opium narcotic products, and it's quite possible they profited on the Opium Wars in China so they have very little room to judge others on valuing human life! It's quite possibly that their 'high on their own supply!' lol1

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Godric on Wed May 20, 2015 9:37 pm

    [quote="whir"]
    TheMedvedova wrote:Column MLRS Hurricane APU - Ukraine

    nope they are BM-30 Smerch

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Neutrality on Wed May 20, 2015 9:42 pm

    whir wrote:

    Yeah, totally not violating the provisions of the Minsk II agreements. Fucking jackasses.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  whir on Wed May 20, 2015 9:53 pm

    Godric wrote:nope they are BM-30 Smerch
    Google Translates Смерч as tornado/twister/whirlwind and Ураган as hurricane/whirlwind/storm/tornado/twister/willy-willy randomly depending on context so that type of errors are quite common.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Erk on Wed May 20, 2015 10:21 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Wow.

    So uh, does Forbs have a list with names, photos and articles to the claimed Tatars being abused and murdered? Cause there is one for Ukrainian politicians and journalists.

    And I have an article of Tatars getting free stuff from the authorities. If there were abuses, I am pretty certain there would be actual evidence of such.

    Forbes should stick to writing about the atrocities the US has caused this century, more material for them.



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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  whir on Wed May 20, 2015 10:25 pm

    7mei.nl wrote:MH17 – ‘Buk launch photo’s’ are cheats
    May 20, 2015

    One of the reasons I visited the MH17 crash area in April 2015 was my desire to verify the authenticity of the only two existing photos showing a smoke plume claimed to be generated by a Buk missile.

    This picture posted 3 hours after MH17 crashed shows an almost completely blue sky. On social media many people immediately questioned the authenticity of the picture because the weather in and around Snizhne was cloudy with 8/8 overcast at that moment.

    More than four month’s later, on December 22nd 2014, Dutch RTL News presented another picture of which the photographer claims it was taken moments before the picture published on July 17th 2014. Continue reading.

    Pravda UA via Google Translate wrote:ГПУ: Мельничук організував банду із добровольців
    GPU: Melnychuk organized gang of volunteers
    Wednesday, May 20, 2015, 14:51

    Deputy Prosecutor General Sergei Melnychuk suspects in organizing gangs of subordinated volunteers.
    This is stated in the petition to the Prosecutor General of the Supreme Council, which is at the disposal of "Ukrainian Truth".
    As stated in the document, preliminary investigations revealed that Melnychuk "during May-September 2014, organized armed gangs to attack the enterprises, institutions and organizations and individuals committed other crimes aimed at open and armed seizure of another's property, took part in that gang and organized attacks exerted on it. " Continue reading.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Erk on Wed May 20, 2015 11:31 pm

    [quote="whir"]
    7mei.nl wrote:MH17 – ‘Buk launch photo’s’ are cheats
    May 20, 2015

    One of the reasons I visited the MH17 crash area in April 2015 was my desire to verify the authenticity of the only two existing photos showing a smoke plume claimed to be generated by a Buk missile.

    This picture posted 3 hours after MH17 crashed shows an almost completely blue sky. On social media many people immediately questioned the authenticity of the picture because the weather in and around Snizhne was cloudy with 8/8 overcast at that moment.

    More than four month’s later, on December 22nd 2014, Dutch RTL News presented another picture of which the photographer claims it was taken moments before the picture published on July 17th 2014. Continue reading.

    The guys argument that he couldn't find the spot with cables in the foreground sounds a bit thin. Perhaps he was in the wrong building. Then he spends the rest of the article trying to discredit the photographer. Hmm I think I will wait for someone else to investigate the photos.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed May 20, 2015 11:38 pm

    Putin makes NAF release two National Guard captives out of a gesture of good will today. Could have exchange them. Suspect

    http://uatoday.tv/society/two-ukrainian-soldiers-freed-from-militant-captivity-428406.html


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  kvs on Wed May 20, 2015 11:54 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia to take measures if putsch hosts American missiles near border with Russia in Kharkov oblast

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/795725
    What measures? Put missiles in Cuba?

    Let the rebels surge forth and conquer the missile systems in Kharkov.
    I wish it would go like that, but I doubt it very much.

    I am sure that the retaliation will have nothing to do with the rebels. Russia will bail out of whatever arms control treaties
    are left. Having ten times more warheads will do wonders for nullifying any BMD system. This includes one using nuclear
    warheads since direct hits are impossible on non-ballistic targets.

    The key is that Washington and its minions in the EU and elsewhere are drinking their own BMD propaganda koolaid and
    really think it will be effective. This is giving them wood and they are already planning to take out Russia since they
    assume that Russia will be unable to retaliate against a nuclear first strike. By "restarting" the arms race Russia has a
    good chance of waking these fuckers up and basically saving itself and a large part of humanity.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

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