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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

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    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 20, 2015 4:03 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    mack8 wrote:Hey there Flagship Victory, i  understand that you don't like Putin, you have made it clear more than once, but you keep repeating the same mantra ad nauseaum and you are continually posting the same thing, it's wearing a bit thin now, not to mention you have thrown accusations of trolling against another member that appear unfounded. Fine, you don't like Putin, you don't like the current russian government policy (there are things i do not agree as well, whether rightly or wrongly remains to be seen though), you made it clear, now let's move on, there are a lot of important events, news and posts from other members about the situation in Ukraine that risk being flooded  by your posts about Putin. If you are well intended, acting accordingly would be appreciated. If not then i and perhaps others will consider the next step. No disrespect.

    I got nothing against Putin. He is what is he, president of Russia, elected by fair election, unlike that Poro guy who took power from Maidan coup. To me at least, Putin is an extremely stubborn guy, asking for Donbas to be part of Ukraine when the reality is that is not in the least bit possible. Putin could have drafted a UN resolution on Crimea in March 2014 before the US took the initiative to do so. Quite possibly, Putin is the most timid, the most stubborn man in the whole wide world. Shocked He has so many tools at his disposal. He never uses any of those tools to the benefit of Russia. Word of advice, elect Mironov in 2018. This guy is good, REAL good. thumbsup


    When you talk about Putin say this ,Russia told this ,You don't understand something that is called Public Relations .  Putin understand Ukraine have no chance to survive and stay united onces the nation default and everyone lose their jobs..  The whole MINSK agreements..
    signed by Putin.. But also supported by Donetsk and Lugansk  Is a dam Public relations game..  What Minsk do is the following.. it tell Poroshenko..

    [i] " Alright "we give up".. we agree that Donetsk and Lugansk should remain part of Ukraine..
    so here are this steps to allow Kiev take control of eastern Ukraine without firing a single shot.
    all kiev needs to do.. is give the special status , that will respect their language and give then
    autonomy to control its own security and elect their own leaders..  [/u] and then when Kiev recognize eastern ukraine special autonomy ,and see the leadership as legitimate.. then the separatist will give control of the borders and officially the war will end..

    So effectively MINSK-2 agreement what it does is put the ball on the side of Kiev..
    to proof that they are the problem.. that they do not negotiate ,when rebels agreed to remain part of Ukraine. It also give the European Union a clear irrefutable view ,that Russia is not interested in annexing eastern ukraine and only want people to stop being killed there and their rights respected...

    So if Kiev does give any special status to the Rebels and continue bombing their cities , after
    Russia manage to convince them to remain part of kiev  
    Then Europe will have a powerful
    motive ,to support the Independence of eastern ukraine..because Kiev refuse to give any autonomy to them..and only wants to kill them..

    What Putin signed in minsk-2 is Brilliant.. is a baby steps independence for the Rebels.. done slowly..and best of all with the support of Europe.. because you know what? eastern Ukraine will have no chance to become a working country under sanctions of Europe and depending 100% on Russia..   If kiev give strong autonomy to the Rebels.. then they will have no more justification to continue fighting .. Wink  The REbels will continue with their Weapons.. and control of their zones and the only new thing is that their borders will be controlled by Ukraine.. but that in case of any war.. the Rebels could easily take them again.

    What you don't see is that... Kiev will never regain total control of eastern ukraine..
    The MINSK-2 agreement give Kiev a symbolical victory ,good enough to keep POroshenko in Power and not be overthrow by the Ultra Nationals.. since after all he managed to take control
    of all Ukraine main land borders.. and "forced the rebels to desist" from their indepence.  Wink

    But in reality what Minsk-2 do.. is a Delayed Independence with the Blessings of Europe and Russia and International Community.. giving the opportunity to kiev "to not lose the territory"
    as long kiev end their Fascism and recognize ethnic Russians as equals.. to ukrainians.

    @flagship.. you are only interested in the future of Donetsk and Lugansk..
    Putin is interested in the future of all Ukraine.. if it will be a Rusophobic nation that will threaten
    their nation security forever.. or if they will be a friendly or neutral one..  Pressuring Ukraine to return to democracy and stop backing their Nazis ultra nationals and calling terrorist any Russian.. will be the only way for peace to return again in all Ukraine..  

    Because if Putin goes and recognize the Independence of Donetsk and lugansk.. it will not have the support of Europe and Russia economy will have to carry them.. because they will be under international sanctions and blockade its economy.

    Minsk-2 is a win /win for the Rebels.and Russia. and a Lose /Lose for USA.. because it means
    Independence delayed and with the support of Europe..if Kiev refuse to give them autonomy..
    The best part is that it allows Kiev to choose to win or to lose.. if they give Rebels full autonomy ,Ukraine wins. but also Russia..and the war ends because no longer they will have excuse to bomb them..

    So effectively in real practice.. no matter how Donetsk or Lugansk is called ..and independent
    country or an Autonomy, or Special territory.. the fact is ,that in real practice.. they will not lose
    control of their territory ,because the Mink-2 agreement does not ask for Rebels to drop their weapons.. Very Happy  only to remove it from the separation line between Ukraine and separatist zones. and im still surprised how poroshenko signed it.. and US had to back it to through UN ,or else will have been seen as part of the problem... lol1

    Indeed MInsk-2 is a checkmate move if this was a chess game..  Laughing
    So ukraine is doomed if do not comply with minsk it will bleed its nation economy ,because the war will not end.. and risk losing more cities..with a major revolution ,that will sooner or later kick kiev from power.. and if Ukraine give strong autonomy to Donetsk and Lugansk.. then the war ends and Russia will be one step closer to recovering good relations with all Ukraine..

    Honestly kiev have no choice but to do the MINSK-2 or they will disband the nation..because no country in the world can survive with a very long civil war in a bankrupt nation. There is also the possibility.. OF europe dividing and distancing from Americans if they continue provoking a war against Russia and sabotaging the cease of fire ,encouraging ukraine to fight with their weapons.

    An analogy of minsk could be a man wanting to kill his wife because she wants to split (gain freedom and independence like Donetsk). so what she do? she makes a deal ,where she agree to remain married with him.. but living in a separate house..and with freedom for her to go and party with anyone she wants..  Essentially is the same thing.. Special Status and strong Autonomy give something very close to an Independence.. with the bonus ,that the entire Government in kiev is assured will not last long if they continue its self isolation from the world
    and hostile stance against Russia.

    So all said ,thanks to Evil Putin.. the Rebels will get their Full Independence.. sooner or later..
    it will happen.. Minsk-2 give the opportunity to get not only their independence but also ALL Ukraine with them.. Wink And this is obviously a really good deal for Russia.. and this is why
    Putin was all smiles in MINSK-2.. after the cease of fire signed and Poroshenko with a long face.

    I suspect the Americans will want to change Minsk-2.. and replace it for another thing ..
    because it give Ukraine to Russia on a silver plate.. thanks to Germany and France and most Europe backing it..and officially backed too by UN. if minsk implemented in Full ..it will reverse the coup in Ukraine by the americans and restore democracy and Pro Russian parties will have again representation in kiev. Kiev will lose power and Cities will become for autonomous. If minsk not implemented ever.. Ukraine disband.soviet union style. because they cannot continue forever their war without losing support not only in Europe but also in Ukraine. and instead of annexing a tiny zone in Donetsk and lugansk.. Russia will end taking all cities from Odessa to Kharkiv and more..



    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed May 20, 2015 4:24 am; edited 1 time in total

    Flagship Victory
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed May 20, 2015 4:16 am

    Vann7, no none of that is good enough reason. How long does it take to implement ceasefire? Already it's been over 3 months since signing and there has been no ceasefire for a single day. People continue to die every single day. How long does it take to implement ceasefire? 3 years? 30 years? Minsk 2 is not acceptable without a concrete deadline. You are holding too much hope putsch will stop firing becasuse of economy. Yes putsch will default. So what? The US has also defaulted. It won't stop the killing. Putin needs to set a strict date. If putsch does not stop firing by this date, then no more Minsk 2. Playing with the lives of civilians is not a game.

    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 20, 2015 4:34 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:Vann7, no none of that is good enough reason. How long does it take to implement ceasefire? Already it's been over 3 months since signing and there has been no ceasefire for a single day. People continue to die every single day. How long does it take to implement ceasefire? 3 years? 30 years? Minsk 2 is not acceptable without a concrete deadline. You are holding too much hope putsch will stop firing becasuse of economy. Yes putsch will default. So what? The US has also defaulted. It won't stop the killing. Putin needs to set a strict date. If putsch does not stop firing by this date, then no more Minsk 2. Playing with the lives of civilians is not a game.

    Kiev will be unable to continue the war if the entire nation economy collapse.. It could end with
    Americans replacing Ukrainians doing the fighting.. but the fight will spread in all Ukraine..and they will lose control of kiev.. Money money is all.. no money no honey.. Patriotism will go to hell ,when no longer people have food and more cities will Rebel.. IT will be impossible for Kiev to
    continue holding control of all Ukraine for the end of year ,if its economy default in this month..
    This is why Soviet Union collapsed.. they do not have money to contain the Revolutions.. Good luck with kiev trying to hold in power with millions protest in all streets in all cities.. Wink

    Why would anyone remain loyal to kiev ,if they do not have food to feed their family.
    REvolution will spread in all ukraine ,you will see.. and Obama have no chance to hold control
    of kiev with the entire nation protesting for ending the war..and full autonomy for every city  , Neither kiev ,neither NATO will have the economy to maintain control of Ukraine ,
    if Ukraine economy collapse.. no one in europe will maintain 40 millions of jobless ukrainians.

    Once Ukraine economy collapse it will be easy for Russia ,Germany and france to encourage revolutions in all ukraine..is they realize kicking the american puppets in kiev from power is the only way to end the conflict..

    You are only worried about donetsk and Ukraine.. but forget about the pro Russian activist being burned alive in other cities.. that the repression and ethnic cleansing of ethnic Russians is happening in many other cities.. anyone seen as Pro Russian is beaten ,jailed or killed.. many of Yakunovych former government politicians have ended killed by mysterious ways.. the war crimes will not end with the independence of Donetsk and Ukraine..
    all Ukraine needs to be captured ..because 20% of Ukraine citizens are Russians. that is
    about 8 millions citizens.. at risk..and this does not count the ukrainians that are friendly to Russia.. basically more than Half of Ukraine is a risk of major repression and crimes for its pro Russian views.

    RUssia wants democracy and freedom for all Ukraine . not just donetsk and Lugansk.. and this is why giving independence to eastern ukraine does NOT solve the problem.. as long kiev remains in power the war will continue. But if Russia gets the support of most Europe to pressure kiev to end the war.. things change.. Getting Europe help is the only way Russia have to end US proxy war against them..using Ukraine.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed May 20, 2015 4:50 am; edited 1 time in total

    auslander
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  auslander on Wed May 20, 2015 4:44 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    That's right, the people of Donbass should listen to you and reject the humanitarian aid convoys Putin has been sending for the past year and just die of starvation.
    Do you think sending aid is cheap? Try to do it sometime. I think your anti-Putin trolling is going on a bit too long.
    Humanitarian aid? Give me a break. Putin could have stopped Maidan dead in its tracks by sending OMON reinforcements. Clearly Ukrainian police was unable to handle Right Sector thugs who shot and killed police officers. Putin could have drafted a UNSC resolution to send in UN peacekeepers and stopped putsch's ethnic cleaning in April 2014. Putin did neither. Had it not been for Strelkov taking matters into his own hands and risking his own life in Crimea in February 2014, Putin would have done nothing to stop American warships entering Sevastopol and taking over Crimea. As for humanitarian aid, no thanks to Putin. Donbas has plenty of humanitarian aid from the Russian public, and not just humanitarian aid but also non lethal military aid like body armor and communication systems which Putin would never give to NAF.
    What has France done for Libyan rebels? UNSC resolution. Military support. What has Putin done for the ethnic Russian people of Donbas next door? Not even a word of support. Mironov has visited Donbas and met with DPR leaders. Putin has not. The people of Donbas have respect for Mironov, not for Putin.[/quote]

    You keep repeating the same mantra, you and your two alter egos. Case in point. Several times you have been told that Polkovnik Strelkov was not involved in what we the people did in Krimu and Sevastopol. I know what the good Polkovnik has said long after the events in Krimu and Sevastopol came to pass and I also have an intimate view of the events although we are quite far from the upper echelons of power in this berg. Never in all the meetings we've attended, the events we have witnessed, the AAR's we participated in, the actions we personally took, have we heard his name mentioned or seen him. Never.

    I am not again going to refute your usual ruminations about Mr. Putin. You and your minimum two alter egos are in my opinion trolling although you are quite clever at it. I/we are very pressed for time again and your foolishness is relegated to background noise for the foreseeable future, in other words you have just won the highly coveted Sophia Ignore Trophy.

    sepheronx
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 20, 2015 5:45 am

    Auslander, how much would it cost for you to see Joe Turner in concert in Sevestopol?

    http://lenta.ru/news/2015/05/19/deeppurple/

    I now will listen to more deep purple. Always liked some of their songs, but now I got far more respect!

    Erk
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Erk on Wed May 20, 2015 5:52 am

    sepheronx wrote:Auslander, how much would it cost for you to see Joe Turner in concert in Sevestopol?

    http://lenta.ru/news/2015/05/19/deeppurple/

    I now will listen to more deep purple.  Always liked some of their songs, but now I got far more respect!

    Do you think he would have many fans in Sevestopol being a foreign language etc?


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 20, 2015 5:57 am

    Erk wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Auslander, how much would it cost for you to see Joe Turner in concert in Sevestopol?

    http://lenta.ru/news/2015/05/19/deeppurple/

    I now will listen to more deep purple.  Always liked some of their songs, but now I got far more respect!

    Do you think he would have many fans in Sevestopol being a foreign language etc?


    Who knows. I saw videos that Vann posted in Sochi thread of some American rock musicians (Sorry, I am behind the times in music as I listen mostly to 60's 70's and 80's), and both videos seemed to have been full house (really maxed out). So I imagine there will be people who will go simply because they want to support those who are willing to come to their wonderful city to perform!

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 20, 2015 6:51 am

    More news of the good life of Family of Ukraine top leadership in kiev..

    Life is good for the offspring of the Kiev junta


    There is no corruption in Ukraine




    This photo was taken two days ago. The eldest daughter of the chief of traffic police of Ukraine - Anastasia Ershova and ... Paris Hilton. Nightclub in Cannes in the South of France. Before that, in six months Anastasia managed to vacation in at least 10 parts of the world - from Saint-Tropez to Monte Carlo, from Samui island to Miami.

    Of course this lifestyle is provided by her design studio Atelier HandMade. Not her dad, a civil servant, the head of traffic police. What's more - with her business she supports the whole family - bought SUV's for herself, parents and younger sister, for grandma and uncle, and built a house for the parents.



    you saw that? in 6 months in 10 parts of the world.. how expensive that should be.
    since when chief of police earn so much ? she even got for birthday a bran new car..
    it was posted somehwere. Since when Police chief earn so much money in Ukraine?
    to enjoy a life of millionaire?

    The former defense ministry is even enjoying life better..
    He earned in 1 year more than Putin ,Merkel ,Obama ,Hollande and all leaders of the European Union combined !!!! how in hell he could have a mansion of 36 millions $ dollars.. that only
    billionaires can afford.  IT can't be possible that bastard made that money without doing something incredibly illegal and criminal.. oh wait..  he lead the war the first year on eastern Ukraine.. that bastard need to be put in JAIL ..

    Really i will want when the war is over, all those Kiev Bastard who traded the blood of
    thousands civilians for the millions they got from the Americans for sponsoring the coup,
    that are hanged in public for corruption and war crimes.. Poroshenko have to be promised
    a check of a couple of $$ billions for keeping the conflict alive in Ukraine.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 20, 2015 7:55 am

    In other news Poroshenko told recently to BBC that Ukraine is in a "real war" with Russia..
    and using as example the 2 soldiers captured by them..  Smile

    Ukraine crisis: President Poroshenko talks of 'real war' with Russia

    Poroshenko is simply following the script of what he is been told to say ,to deviate the
    attention on world community on their responsability to implement MINSK-2 and justify
    their attacks on eastern ukraine by saying they are at war.. now with Russia.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32805555


    Not surprisingly, the economic markets and Russia ruble did not blink with such
    strong words.. of Ukraine being "at war" with Russia.. Kiev have done everything to ruin its credibility..

    WHy you see an intensification of paranoia by Ukraine? because already Ukraine is preparing
    for a selective default.. their new laws of moratorium ,justify Ukraine to not pay anything to Russia. So i guess they will no longer buy Russian gas and cook dinner the caveman way..
    with wooden sticks .


    It Begins: Ukraine Takes First Real Steps To Default



    The Ukrainian government is on the brink of declaring default.

    The Ukrainian government has proposed a bill allowing the government to impose a “moratorium” on payment of the country’s external debts.

    Such a moratorium is just another word for a default.

    It is the same device the Russian government used when it defaulted on its external debt in 1998.

    This is not quite the end of Ukraine’s debt saga. Ukraine will only be formally in default when it misses a payment.

    It is possible Ukraine has taken this step as a negotiating tactic to put more pressure on its Western creditors.

    It is also possible Ukraine is hoping to preserve some financial credibility by picking and choosing which creditors it will pay.

    As we have discussed previously, it might try to go on paying its Western creditors while defaulting on the debts it owes to Russia.

    In truth, as has been pointed out by several people — notably by Eric Kraus — the numbers of the various IMF plans have never added up, and a default looked increasingly inevitable from the moment the Maidan coup happened, when it became clear the Ukrainian government was heading into a confrontation with its economically critically important eastern regions and with its biggest trade partner Russia.

    The accelerating collapse of Ukraine’s economy (with GDP contracting by 17% in the first quarter by comparison with last year) and the deadlock in the negotiations with the Western creditors, appears to have made today’s default announcement unavoidable.


    http://russia-insider.com/en/business/ukraine-prepares-default/ri7117

    This is probably the reason Ukraine is saying is in "a real war with Russia" , because
    if Russia attacks ukraine they will be somehow in no obligation to pay their debts ..
    but not sure.. could be a tactic.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Erk on Wed May 20, 2015 8:23 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    http://russia-insider.com/en/business/ukraine-prepares-default/ri7117

    This is probably the reason Ukraine is saying is in "a real  war with Russia" , because
    if Russia attacks ukraine they will be somehow in no obligation to pay their debts ..
    but not sure.. could be a tactic.

    Russia responds by cutting off gas, what then? How is Ukraine better off with war declaration against Russia?


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 20, 2015 8:35 am

    Vann7 wrote:More news of the good life of Family of Ukraine top leadership in kiev..

    Life is good for the offspring of the Kiev junta


    There is no corruption in Ukraine




    This photo was taken two days ago. The eldest daughter of the chief of traffic police of Ukraine - Anastasia Ershova and ... Paris Hilton. Nightclub in Cannes in the South of France. Before that, in six months Anastasia managed to vacation in at least 10 parts of the world - from Saint-Tropez to Monte Carlo, from Samui island to Miami.

    Of course this lifestyle is provided by her design studio Atelier HandMade. Not her dad, a civil servant, the head of traffic police. What's more - with her business she supports the whole family - bought SUV's for herself, parents and younger sister, for grandma and uncle, and built a house for the parents.



    you saw that? in 6 months in 10 parts of the world.. how expensive that should be.
    since when chief of police earn so much ? she even got for birthday a bran new car..
    it was posted somehwere.  Since when Police chief earn so much money in Ukraine?
    to enjoy a life of millionaire?  

    The former defense ministry is even enjoying life better..
    He earned in 1 year more than Putin ,Merkel ,Obama ,Hollande and all leaders of the European Union combined !!!! how in hell he could have a mansion of 36 millions $ dollars.. that only
    billionaires can afford.  IT can't be possible that bastard made that money without doing something incredibly illegal and criminal.. oh wait..  he lead the war the first year on eastern Ukraine.. that bastard need to be put in JAIL ..

    Really i will want when the war is over, all those Kiev Bastard who traded the blood of
    thousands civilians for the millions they got from the Americans for sponsoring the coup,
    that are hanged in public for corruption and war crimes..  Poroshenko have to be promised
    a check of a couple of $$ billions for keeping the conflict alive in Ukraine.

    Well let's say that she's the "groupie" type and she's good looking, with a slight accent, ant slender body, she could earn more than papa doeing exactly what her papa does...now i'll cut the slander. Let's not judge to hastily, there is wholesale corruption IN Ukraine, and crisis like these help with that.

    As of Heteley I don't know why that dumbass buys a mansion in the UK, while it has a fat chance of getting all sacrificial lamb when the next "lustracia" campaign kicks in.

    Oh well, Ukraine.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 20, 2015 8:54 am



    Kiev way of attracting investors ... lol1



    What you see in that video will only increase in all cities.. i can see major Riots in all ukraine..
    and the whole nation becoming a lawless state like Lybia ,with thousands of different gangs
    trying to control neighborhoods in the country.


    There are reports of Foreign specialist that came to help Kiev , leaving ukraine..

    Kiev junta is packing the bags



    Escape. This short word describes the state of the Ukrainian elite. Foreign advisers are actively quitting the junta government. Businessmen are taking their money out.

    Just a few hours ago the honest heart of the Estonian girl Yanika Merilo could not stand the sad spectacle of what is happening in Ukraine , and she left the post of Deputy Minister of Economy. This is not the first case of this kind. Earlier the Ukro-American Alexander Borovik and a Georgian Jaba Ebanoidze had resigned. Even the infamous "hawk" John McCain had enough brain power to refuse to cooperate with Poroshenko regime.

    The diagnosis needs no comment: the leak in the bowels of the Ukrainian ship has reached a critical level, when emergency has to be declared, and distress signals are sent across all channels. And clearly, the first to seek safety are rather intelligent, albeit unpleasant gray rodents.


    http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/05/kiev-junta-is-packing-bags.html


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Rodinazombie on Wed May 20, 2015 9:25 am

    It certainly appears as though the endgame is approaching slowly but surely for the regime. Many of us said that peace will prove to be the end for poroshenko, and that looks to be the case, although its falling apart brick by brick, rather than a complete collapse all once.

    Poroshenko is getting very desperate now, claiming to be in a 'real war' with russia, all the while he is shelling civilian areas in donetsk in order to provoke russia. Russia can see this for what it is though, simply a provocation, and as such its better to not respond by force. The more kiev lashes out and provokes, the more desperate it is.

    The best way to combat this is not to play into their hands by playing their 'russian invasion' game. Strangle them economically, without giving justification for more western bailouts and they will implode.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 20, 2015 9:25 am



    There was also reports that OSCE was being shoot against by Pro Kiev forces..
    and they now talking to RT directly about Ukraine ARtillery shelling recently Rebels zones..
    In essence contradicting Kiev ,their claims that what they do is self defense.. and instead
    they provoking the separatist to fight..



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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Rodinazombie on Wed May 20, 2015 9:58 am

    poroshenko wrote:«У меня есть мечта. Когда я не буду президентом, я мечтаю быть членом парламента — Европейского парламента. Когда Украина будет членом Европейского союза. И я сделаю для этого всё возможное. Может, эта идея и не слишком популярна в Великобритании, но мы сделаем всё возможное. Эта идея очень популярна на Украине. Более 70% украинцев — решительно за Европейский союз, и мы оправдаем эти ожидания», — цитирует слова Порошенко украинский сайт BBC.

    Poroshenko wrote:I have a dream. When i wont be the president, I dream to be a member of parliament - the european parliament. When ukraine will be a member of the european union. And for this I will do everything possible. Maybe, this idea isnt so popular in great britain, but we will do everything possible. This idea is very popular in ukraine. More than 70% of ukrainians - are for the european union, and we will realise their expectations.

    hahahaha, the guy is insane. Please give me some of what he is smoking.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Wed May 20, 2015 10:02 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:It certainly appears as though the endgame is approaching slowly but surely for the regime.  Many of us said that peace will prove to be the end for poroshenko, and that looks to be the case, although its falling apart brick by brick, rather than a complete collapse all once.

    Poroshenko is getting very desperate now, claiming to be in a 'real war' with russia, all the while he is shelling civilian areas in donetsk in order to provoke russia. Russia can see this for what it is though, simply a provocation, and as such its better to not respond by force. The more kiev lashes out and provokes, the more desperate it is.

    The best way to combat this is not to play into their hands by playing their 'russian invasion' game. Strangle them economically, without giving justification for more western bailouts and they will implode.
    Probably not going to happen unfortunately.

    When Pork starts to see that his evil regime's end is drawing ever closer and the rebels and Russia aren't biting the bait, Pork will probably order an all out attack in order to buy some time and so the IMF can pay him his retirement funds. Unfortunately the West will still buy into the Hohol propaganda machine and believe that Russia and the Rebels instigated the attack and there is a good chance that there could be more sanctions and more loans and promises of that sort. This isn't going save Ukraine from the almost inevitable end that their "Revolution of Dignity" brought them.

    Hopefully the end is coming but before it comes there is a good chance that things might get worse for a while. As the idiom goes, "It is always darkest before the dawn."

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  whir on Wed May 20, 2015 10:04 am

    BBC wrote:Ukraine crisis: President Poroshenko talks of 'real war' with Russia
    19 May 2015 Europe

    Ukraine's president has told the BBC his country is now in a "real war" with Russia - and that Ukrainians should prepare for a Russian offensive.

    President Petro Poroshenko told the BBC's Fergal Keane he did not trust his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin.

    However he said he had no option but to negotiate with Mr Putin.

    Russia denies Western accusations that it has sent regular troops and armour to help the rebels in eastern Ukraine.

    The United Nations says at least 6,000 people have been killed since fighting started in eastern Ukraine in April 2014.

    Pro-Russian rebels made significant gains in the region, including, most recently, the rail hub of Debaltseve. They, and Russia, have denied they are receiving Moscow's support.

    But Russia's role has again come into question, after the capture on Saturday of two men Ukraine said were elite Russian soldiers working in eastern Ukraine.

    In a video, the men confirmed they were active Russian servicemen, but Moscow said they were no longer employed by the state when they were caught. Continue reading.

    Bloomberg wrote:Buffer-State Blues Hit Ukraine Amid EU Greek Distraction
    by James G Neuger 12:00 AM CEST May 20, 2015

    Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia had better get used to life as buffer states between the European Union and Russia.

    Not even a glimmer of future EU membership will be on offer at a summit starting Thursday. The three aren’t ready and the meeting threatens to be sidetracked by the Mediterranean migration crisis, Greece’s quest to escape ejection from the euro and Britain’s possible departure from the bloc.

    What’s left is for the summit in Riga, Latvia, to reaffirm a small-steps policy of trade preferences, a dripfeed of investment and the easing of travel restrictions for citizens of the three eastern countries trying to break out of Russia’s orbit.

    “Enthusiasm for further integration between the EU and its eastern neighbors is on the wane, but Europe should be bolder,” said Ian Bond, a former British diplomat now with the Centre for European Reform in London. “A gray zone to its east is not in the EU’s interests.”
    Ukraine’s economic woes and simmering conflict with Russia have made the EU wary of commitments to countries on its eastern fringes, still plagued by corruption and poor governance.

    Some 500,000 Moldovans have made trips to the EU since visa requirements were lifted a year ago. That concession has been “a rather sobering experience,” Richard Youngs, a senior associate at Carnegie Europe, said Tuesday on a media conference call. “Since that was offered, the problems of corruption if anything have gotten worse in Moldova.” Continue reading.

    Громадське Телебачення wrote:Osokorky: People in masks, activists and police - fight to the scandalous construction site

    VZ via Google Translate wrote:МВД Украины предложило привлечь иностранных полицейских к патрулированию улиц
    Ukrainian Interior Ministry has offered to attract foreign police officers patrolling the streets
    May 19, 2015, 20:45

    The Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine wants to attract foreign police officers patrolling the streets in the country, said Deputy Interior Minister Tigran Avakian.

    "A week ago, during the last meeting with our European partners, we came out with a proposal for the direct involvement of foreign police in joint patrols and performance features of the new patrol police, which will begin in the summer to work in Ukraine", - said Avakian.

    According to him, it is primarily of officers from countries where there is no "significant linguistic and mental barriers", reports "Ukrinform" .

    "We offered to involve the police in countries where there is no significant linguistic and mental barriers with Ukraine. This refers to Poland, Slovakia, the Baltic States ", - said the deputy minister. Continue reading.

    Студия АВРОРА wrote:May 9 in Donetsk

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 20, 2015 10:11 am

    Putin could have stopped Maidan dead in its tracks by sending OMON reinforcements. Clearly Ukrainian police was unable to handle Right Sector thugs who shot and killed police officers. Putin could have drafted a UNSC resolution to send in UN peacekeepers and stopped putsch's ethnic cleaning in April 2014. Putin did neither.

    So the two things Putin should have done in your opinion was to violate international and Russian law and send in OMON... Russian Interior Ministry forces into a foreign country... and what sort of effective UNSC resolution do you think the Russians could get past the US and the UK and France... after imposing sanctions on Russia because they thought Russia might be interfering... do you really think they will let Russia do anything via the UN?

    BTW those UNSC resolutions are such potent things in international law... Kosovo is an integral part of Serbian territory according to resolutions... hahahahahahaha.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 20, 2015 10:30 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Putin could have stopped Maidan dead in its tracks by sending OMON reinforcements. Clearly Ukrainian police was unable to handle Right Sector thugs who shot and killed police officers. Putin could have drafted a UNSC resolution to send in UN peacekeepers and stopped putsch's ethnic cleaning in April 2014. Putin did neither.

    So the two things Putin should have done in your opinion was to violate international and Russian law and send in OMON... Russian Interior Ministry forces into a foreign country... and what sort of effective UNSC resolution do you think the Russians could get past the US and the UK and France... after imposing sanctions on Russia because they thought Russia might be interfering... do you really think they will let Russia do anything via the UN?

    BTW those UNSC resolutions are such potent things in international law... Kosovo is an integral part of Serbian territory according to resolutions... hahahahahahaha.

    There is nothing more cops would have done (foreign cops at that). The situation was an open secession since the begining. The 25th of November Lviv city hall was occupied. I'm glad that Yanukovich didn't sent the troops. People need to understand Ukraine had a giant worm on its apple. You can't do much about that. Sofar so good.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Neutrality on Wed May 20, 2015 11:52 am

    I completely agree that Poroshenko's power and grip on society is fading. The implementation of the recent law to postpone debt payments and his panic about being in state of war with Russia, shows that he is desperate. Russia should hand him the rope by actively supporting counter revolutionary elements in the country. Crimean authorities should actively seek for communication lines with the authorities in both Eastern and Western regions. Convince them that the government they choose to keep in power is destroying its economy and its potential.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  whir on Wed May 20, 2015 1:03 pm

    Unlike news wrote:Donetsk today: restless (Kuibyshev) 19/05/2015

    Патриотические Силы wrote:The shelling of the Kuibyshev district. Donetsk. 05/19/2015 "Armistice we did not have."

    NV via Google Translate wrote:Парламент изменил административные границы в Донецкой области
    Parliament changed the administrative boundaries in the Donetsk region
    Today, 12:49

    The Verkhovna Rada has changed the boundaries of three districts of Mariupol and Donetsk region.

    During the corresponding decision on the delimitation of Volnovakha, Novoazovskiy and Telmanovskiy Donetsk region voted 239 deputies out of 354 registered in the session hall.

    Thus, the Parliament adopted a resolution №2321, sponsored by the ex-governor of the Donetsk region, Sergei Taruta, which proposed to include the village of Grape, Pioneer and seaside Vinogradnenskogo village council in the city limits of Mariupol.

    In addition, the Resolution №2792 Parliament changed the boundaries of Artemovsk Donetsk region, increased its territory by reference to its composition of urban settlement and the city Mironovsky Svetlodarsk. Continue reading.

    Dozor Kharkov via Google Translate wrote:На Шевченко трамвай врезался в жилой дом
    On Shevchenko tram crashed into a residential building
    05/20/2015 11:41


    Photo: kharkovforum.com

    On the morning of May 20 in the area of Shevchenko and perekrestra Takhiatash derailed tram №26.

    Tram crashed into the gate of an apartment house
    Eyewitnesses in social networks reported that the accident occurred around 7 am.

    With the first car came off the rails, it issued towards the residential sector, where he rammed the gates of the private area.

    Media reported that at some time in the hospital turned 53-year-old passenger rail. Her diagnosis is unknown. Continue reading.

    ‏@OnlineMagazin wrote:Memorial wall with Cyborgs in Kirovograd. #Ukraine

    UNIAN via Google Translate wrote:Рада провалила законопроект про іспит з української мови для держслужбовців
    Rada failed bill on the Ukrainian language exam for civil servants
    20.05.2015 | 12:19

    Parliament did not support the draft law on amendments to the Law "On State Service" (mandatory for Ukrainian language by officials of state authorities, № 1201).

    According to UNIAN, voted for this decision only 152 deputies of 339 registered in the session hall.

    Bill authorship MPs of interfactional union "Freedom" proposed to establish , among the basic principles on which the public service, - to prevent public demonstrations of contempt for the Ukrainian language, mockery or derision of it and discredit it.

    The right to public service citizens of Ukraine regardless of origin, social and property status, race, ethnicity, gender, political views, religious beliefs, place of residence, have received appropriate education and training, speak Ukrainian at the level required to perform them their duties and passed in the prescribed manner or other competitive selection procedure laid down by the Cabinet of Ministers. Continue reading.

    Kyiv Post wrote:Poroshenko says Ukraine will never accept Crimea's occupation, will fight for Crimean Tatars' rights
    May 20, 2015, 1:38 p.m. | Ukraine — by Interfax-Ukraine

    Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has said that Ukraine will never accept the occupation of Crimea and will do everything possible to protect the rights of the Crimean Tatars. Continue reading.

    Sputnik wrote:'Not by Force Alone': Poroshenko Mulls New Options for Donbass Settlement
    EUROPE 09:55 20.05.2015(updated 11:05 20.05.2015)

    In a media interview on Tuesday Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said there was no chance the country’s eastern Donbass region could be taken away from the pro-independence militia by military force.

    “I don’t think our territory can be liberated by military means alone,” Poroshenko told the BBC, noting that diplomacy was the only answer and that he had no option but to negotiate with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
    Russia denies Western accusations that it has sent regular troops and armor to help the pro-independence militia in eastern Ukraine.

    President Poroshenko also said that, apart from efforts to end the conflict in eastern Ukraine, fighting corruption was another major priority for his administration. Continue reading.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed May 20, 2015 1:24 pm

    Putsch says no more military technical cooperation with Russia. Shocked

    www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukrainian-government-to-sever-agreement-on-military-technical-cooperation-with-russia-389022.html

    Eleven NATO states and Israel offer to treat wounded putsch Maidanists.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/eleven-nato-states-israel-offer-help-in-treating-wounded-soldiers-389021.html

    Putsch reports 3 Maidanists KIA and 9 more WIA yesterday. KIA means killed on the spot. The actual number of Maidanists killed yesterday was at least 4.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Werewolf on Wed May 20, 2015 1:55 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Putsch says no more military technical cooperation with Russia. Shocked

    www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukrainian-government-to-sever-agreement-on-military-technical-cooperation-with-russia-389022.html

    Eleven NATO states and Israel offer to treat wounded putsch Maidanists.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/eleven-nato-states-israel-offer-help-in-treating-wounded-soldiers-389021.html

    Putsch reports 3 Maidanists KIA and 9 more WIA yesterday. KIA means killed on the spot. The actual number of Maidanists killed yesterday was at least 4.

    And fools here said Israel is not against russia...nazis like nazis or more or less like to use them.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed May 20, 2015 2:12 pm

    Werewolf wrote:And fools here said Israel is not against russia...nazis like nazis or more or less like to use them.

    Agreed. Also Israel treats wounded Syrian terrorists who fight against Assad who is friendly to Russia.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

    Post  sepheronx on Wed May 20, 2015 2:42 pm

    I wonder if the Tatars in Crimea would be idiots to want to side with Poroshenko. Because he cant even help is own territories, and he is failing hard. It is no different than terrorist mufti calling for terrorism from Crimean tatars.

    No more military technical cooperation pretty much means the end of their economy. Russia apparently imports meat from Ukraine. Better stop that and no more money flow.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #14

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