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    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

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    T-47

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  T-47 on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:03 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:They will give it to rostec, the only way to save it.

    They can order infinite amount of BMP's and it won't save the company. Piss poor management for too long. Once its part of an armor holding, it will be fine.

    Whatever works for them. It just need to pump out BMPs and BMDs with better paying to the workers.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:36 pm

    They are consolidating the companies by the sounds of it. Rostec will own both to unite them into 1 group, fix the management structure and business structure, modernize what has to, and then they usually sell majority shares in a privatization bid (this usually ends up being like 20% bank 1, 25% Rostec, 25% some other bank, etc).

    Once the bankruptcy proceeds and they get everything cleared, then the company will switch hands. This is a strategic company, so they will make sure to keep it running. Just under new ownership.

    In theory, it may do better afterwards because if it is part of an armored holding group controlled by Uralvagonzavod, then interoperability significantly increases and thus projects that work with unified body will move a lot faster.
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    Arctic_Fox

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:33 pm

    New Boomerang variant:


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    Benya

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  Benya on Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:51 pm

    Arctic_Fox wrote:New Boomerang variant:



    Berezhok combat module? Nice thumbsup

    However, I think that this will be more of an export variant, as Russia would equip their own ones with the Bumerang-BM combat module.
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    franco

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  franco on Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:08 pm

    Might be a combo... having the 30mm AGL sounds good to me.
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    George1

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:46 am

    "Boomerang" with the fighting module "Berezhok"

    Among other things, at the military technical forum "Army-2017" that opened in Kubinka, a variant of the armored unified wheeled platform VPK-7829 "Boomerang" with the inhabited combat module B05Y01 "Berezhok" developed by JSC "Design Bureau of Instrumentation" was demonstrated in a dynamic display. (KBP, Tula) instead of the Boomerang-BM unmanned combat module (also developed by KBMP) installed on prototypes "Boomerang" in K-17 version. A sample of "Boomerang" with the combat module "Berezhok" has been preliminarily tested for some time.







    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2801784.html


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    0nillie0

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  0nillie0 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:35 am

    franco wrote:Might be a combo... having the 30mm AGL sounds good to me.

    Having the new grenade launcher in a panoramic weapon station would be much better imho.

    At any rate, i think the new combat modules just aren't ready. If they where, we would see them now on Bumerang AFV or at least a static display (not a mock up but the real thing). Perhaps i am jumping the gun and we will see it at Army, but yet they have been testing Bumerang IFV with Berezhok which became available years ago. Especially that remote 30mm module design always looks a bit odd to me...very not Russian...And they are going to get Berezhok on the BMP-2 if that is still going as planned. So again : Less reasons to push ahead with new intermediate modules.
    Look at the turret on the BTR-87. Just a regular old BTR-82 turret with new sights and Kornet capability. It makes sense as Russia already operates so many BTR-82A.

    Hopefully progress on the new 57mm combat module doesn't stall.

    P.S.

    Jus to be clear, i think the Berezhok module looks great on Bumerang AFV. And i have always been a fan of it. Not hating on it ! Needs imho a more capable commander sight tho.
    It would be great if they could combine the grenade launcher and panoramic commander sight, similar to the commander module on T-14.

    In the end it is still a manned turret, which is not really a bad thing, would it not be for all that ammo stored near the crew...

    T-47

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  T-47 on Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:40 pm

    So a going away from the unmanned turret craze?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:50 am

    No, likely testing the manned turret Berezhok on the Kurganets platform... I suspect the turret was automated and connected to the hull positions for the crew so the crew could operate it from the hull positions.

    I rather doubt in this form this turret would be selected but some features might have been tested.

    Even for export the Berezhok turret would not really be suitable for the Kurganets as the latter is designed with all the troops and crew to be in the hull.


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    Luq man

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  Luq man on Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:05 pm


    AJ-47

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  AJ-47 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:35 am

    GarryB wrote:A 57mm grenade launcher would make more sense, or perhaps a 23mm cannon in the form of a KPB with the light 23 x 115mm ammo... low velocity, low recoil, compact ammo able to be carried in large numbers and fired in bursts to cover an area in HE shells rapidly... in fact instead of a KPB I would use the GSh-23 from the Hind for its high rate of fire and accuracy.

    Hi GarryB
    How about the 23/152 one barrel as a coaxial gun for the 57mm? it has higher velocity, lower rate of fire IMO only 800 RPM. so it will not waste so much ammo. I know its a bigger round but it has some advanyage too. On the turett I will put RWS with 23mm gun has the one in the turret and 7.62 as a coaxial gun.

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    GarryB

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:46 am

    You want each weapon you add to give you a new capability.

    Some might look at the Berezhuk turret where there is a 30 x 165mm gun as standard and they add a 30mm grenade launcher... it seems redundant.

    It is a totally different weapon however despite being the same calibre.

    The 30mm 2A42 is a high velocity autocannon... it can fire HE shells so a 30mm grenade launcher seems a waste.... just carry more HE rounds for the main gun.

    the difference however is that the 30mm grenade launcher has a much lower muzzle velocity and the ammo is much much smaller, so not only can you lob shells over cover your 30mm cannon shells would just splatter against you can also carry more rounds.

    The high velocity small calibre weapon is effective against a wide range of targets, but lower velocity weapons with heavier payloads are also effective against other targets the high velocity small rounds are not effective against.

    Case in point the heavy slow 73mm rounds of the BMP-1 pack more HE power than the high velocity 30mm cannon shells of the BMP-2.

    Sometimes 30mm cannon shells are better, like shooting at light armoured and unarmoured vehicles, and other times the extra HE power of the bigger rounds are more effective... like light bunkers with rocks and logs and sandbags, or the rooms of buildings a sniper is firing from.

    The BMP-3 has a 30mm cannon and a 100mm gun designed to fire HE shells... which is why it is rifled and not smooth bore.

    The problem is that the 30mm cannon is a bit light to defeat enemy IFVs now and is of little use against tanks.

    The 57mm high velocity gun is to replace the 30mm calibre gun against enemy IFVs with APFSDS rounds and against small fast air targets like UAVs with guided shells and air burst shells.

    The 57mm gun can pack enough HE to be effective against bunkers and other harder targets, but the shells are large and not so many can be carried, so my suggestion of the 23 x 115mm round to be added (or indeed the new 40mm Balkan grenade launcher for that matter) is a lower velocity round that delivers a good HE payload.

    The 23 x 152mm HE round has a good HE payload too... it is the same projectile launched at a higher muzzle velocity by the larger shell case and more propellent.

    But against most targets the higher velocity means nothing except more size and weight of the rounds, more recoil and muzzle flash, and all just to get the rounds to target slightly faster.

    With the smaller rounds a lighter weapon can be used and much more ammo carried, and the target wont know the difference.

    The 40mm Balkan would be smaller and lighter and deliver much heavier and more powerful HE rounds to target.

    There is a 57mm grenade launcher being developed too that reportedly fires HE rounds with the power of 76.2mm guns which would make it even more attractive.

    If you need a high velocity round to shoot down aircraft or penetrate armour then the 57mm gun is the best choice... lobbing a low velocity heavy shell onto the target however would be better performed with a grenade launcher type weapon or low velocity cannon. (23 x 115mm rounds have a muzzle velocity of about 700m/s so faster than most grenade launcher grenades but low enough recoil to allow very very high rates of fire.

    With a short burst of 10-20 rounds they would arrive on target like a shotgun blast so even a moving target will be showered with fragments of shells exploding all around them all at once.. no time to evade.


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