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    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

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    calripson
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    What Are Those ?

    Post  calripson on Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:51 pm

    What are those ? Will there be an APS installed ?

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  Benya on Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:56 pm

    calripson wrote:What are those ? Will there be an APS installed ?

    Well, we don't know it exactly, but for the IFV variant, it would make sense to be installed.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  Benya on Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:24 am

    Some more info on these "new" Boomerangs

    New version of Russian K-16 and K-17 Bumerang were unveiled during military parade in Smolino.

    During a military parade for the 75th anniversary of Russian Ministry of Defense scientific-testing experimental artillery range in Smolino (Nizhny Novgorod region),Russia, a new prototype version of the K-16 APC and K-17 BTR Bumerang armoured vehicles were presented to the public.



    New version of the Russian-made K-17 BMP Bumerang at military parade in Smolino, Russia.

    There is some change in the design, a new hatch or storage box is located in the center of the wheeled driveline.

    The Boomerang was showed for the first time to the public during the rehearsal of Victory Day military parade in Alabino testing range, near Moscow in April 2015. The Bumerang is a new development of 8x8 armoured vehicle personnel carrier launched by the Russian defense industry to replace the old BTR family used by the Russian armed forces.

    There is two variants of the Bumerang vehicle, the K-16 APC and K-17 IFV. The K-16 is an APC (Armoured Personnel Carrier) fitted with a small turret armed with 12.7mm heavy machine gun.

    The K-17 is the IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle) version in the Bumerang family. The vehicle is fitted with a remotely controlled weapon station armed with one 2A42 30mm automatic cannon. Two launchers of anti-tank guided missile Kornet-EM are mounted on each side of the turret. The Bumerang can engage all mobile or static targets by day and night at a maximum range of 5,500m.

    This new version of the K-17 Bumerang seems to be fitted with new sensors mounted at the front on each side of the hull.



    New version of the Russian-made K-16 APC Bumerang at military parade in Smolino, Russia.

    Link to the official article:
    Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/august_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/new_version_of_russian_k-16_and_k-17_bumerang_were_unveiled_during_military_parade_in_smolino_10208162.html



    It is strange however that they didn't mentioned those APS(?) and smoke grenade launchers on the back of the vehicle that robognus have been posted a picture of.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:50 am

    Benya wrote:Some more info on these "new" Boomerangs

    New version of Russian K-16 and K-17 Bumerang were unveiled during military parade in Smolino.

    During a military parade for the 75th anniversary of Russian Ministry of Defense scientific-testing experimental artillery range in Smolino (Nizhny Novgorod region),Russia, a new prototype version of the K-16 APC and K-17 BTR Bumerang armoured vehicles were presented to the public.



    New version of the Russian-made K-17 BMP Bumerang at military parade in Smolino, Russia.

    There is some change in the design, a new hatch or storage box is located in the center of the wheeled driveline.

    The Boomerang was showed for the first time to the public during the rehearsal of Victory Day military parade in Alabino testing range, near Moscow in April 2015. The Bumerang is a new development of 8x8 armoured vehicle personnel carrier launched by the Russian defense industry to replace the old BTR family used by the Russian armed forces.

    There is two variants of the Bumerang vehicle, the K-16 APC and K-17 IFV. The K-16 is an APC (Armoured Personnel Carrier) fitted with a small turret armed with 12.7mm heavy machine gun.

    The K-17 is the IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle) version in the Bumerang family. The vehicle is fitted with a remotely controlled weapon station armed with one 2A42 30mm automatic cannon. Two launchers of anti-tank guided missile Kornet-EM are mounted on each side of the turret. The Bumerang can engage all mobile or static targets by day and night at a maximum range of 5,500m.

    This new version of the K-17 Bumerang seems to be fitted with new sensors mounted at the front on each side of the hull.



    New version of the Russian-made K-16 APC Bumerang at military parade in Smolino, Russia.

    Link to the official article:
    Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/august_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/new_version_of_russian_k-16_and_k-17_bumerang_were_unveiled_during_military_parade_in_smolino_10208162.html



    It is strange however that they didn't mentioned those APS(?) and smoke grenade launchers on the back of the vehicle that robognus have been posted a picture of.

    It's not the most accurate article, for example Russia wouldn't be using a export version of a domestic ATGM, and vehicle based version of Kornet would have a Thermobaric/HE-FRAG warheads with 10 km range and HEAT warheads with 8.5 km range.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  Benya on Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:54 pm

    New video about the Boomerang by Polit Russia:



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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  Benya on Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:16 pm

    The full article about the Kurganets ARV


    Russian MoD has begun testing new armoured recovery vehicle based on Kurganets-25 chassis

    Russia's Ministry of Defense and the "Special Design Bureau for Machine Building" (SKBM) have begun testing a next-generation Armored Recovery Vehicle (ARV) based on the Kurganets-25, which is used to repair or recover damaged combat machinery during warfare.


    Scale model of Kurganets-25 ARV (Armoured Recovery Vehicle) at RAE 2015 defense exhibition in Nizhny Tagil, Russia.

    The new ARV has been developed on the platform of the Kurganets-25 infantry vehicle, and is intended to support infantry vehicles or armored personnel carriers. It carries repair equipment such as replacement engines, transmission systems, clutches and other necessary components, and is able to withstand heavy gunfire.

    "The vehicle is currently undergoing testing at the moment, and it can be expected to be deployed together with the Kurganets-25," Sergey Abdulov, head designer at SKBM, told Izvestiya. Abdulov explained that the new vehicle is safer than its predecessors, and boasts an improved system of evacuation for soldiers under fire.

    The new Kurganets-25 ARV improves upon the BREM-1 armored recovery vehicle which entered service with the Russina army in 1984.

    A military source told the newspaper that the ARV will be deployed to support infantry and marine battalions equipped with the new Kurganets-25 and Bumerang combat vehicles, as well as the older BTR-80, BTR-82B, BMP-2 and BMP-3.

    Source:
    Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/russian_mod_has_begun_testing_new_armoured_recovery_vehicle_based_on_kurganets-25_chassis_10509161.html



    BTW I expected this to be shown at Army-2016 Neutral , but maybe next year at Russia Arms Expo 2017, or Army-2017 dunno

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  franco on Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:39 pm

    Kubinka (Moscow Region), September 9 - RIA Novosti. Russian Defense Ministry does not consider it necessary to develop a wheeled tank, but if such a task is set - "defense industry" to cope with it, said in an interview with RIA Novosti head of the Main Tank-Automotive Management Office, Lieutenant-General Alexander Shevchenko.
    The Defense Ministry told about the "highlight" of the new tank "Armata"
    "Each machine comes against the background of the requirements, and the requirements specified forms and methods of military equipment if such a machine will need, I have no doubt that our tank builders do it.", - Said Shevchenko.

    The general said that in the short term before GABTU such problems are not worth it, "but if they come, then we will make it, because we have a very good achievements."

    He said that overseas wheeled tanks have only in the armies of the two countries - the United States and Italy.

    "The Americans have a problem with this machine, the greatest success achieved Italians we their car were studied:. The creation of a wheeled tank - it is a very high-tech process is necessary to solve the problems of firepower and suspension - it is not all that simple In addition, these machines have a rather narrow.. scope, "- said the general.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  Flanky on Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:49 pm

    See this is how disinformation is easily spread... a video claiming they are working on a wheeled tank and then some source saying they are not...

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  Benya on Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:55 pm

    Kurganets and Boomerang will get a new heart


    Russia's Kurganets-25 and Bumerang infantry fighting vehicles to get new diesel engines

    The newest Kurganets-25 and Bumerang (Boomerang) infantry fighting vehicles (IFV) developed by the Tractor Plants Concern and the Military Industrial Company, respectively will get new diesel engines, according to a source in the Russian defense industry.


    A K-17 Bumerang armored infantry fighting vehicle
    (Credit: Vitaly V. Kuzmin)

    "The YaMZ-780 diesel engine developed by the Yaroslavl Motor-Building Plant [a subsidiary of the GAZ Group] has already been installed on the Kurganets-25 IFV. At present, the updated vehicle is successfully passing the relevant trials. We have tested YaMZ-780 at the test rig, and the engine has confirmed its highest performance. The maneuver capabilities of the Kurganets-25 IFVs will be increased in a drastic manner," the source said. He did not specify the terms of the works. The BMP-2 and BMP-3 IFVs are powered by UTD20S1 (300 h.p.) and UTD29 (500 h.p.) diesel engines, he reminded.

    The source added that the original power output of the YaMZ-780 engine (1,000 h.p.) had been intentionally reduced in order to meet the terms of reference issued by the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD). "The Yaroslavl Motor-Building Plant has reduced the YaMZ-780 power output upon the MoD`s requests. It can be increased to 900-1,100 h.p. any day of the week. We have integrated a backup control system, a backup air start system, and a preheater with the motor in order to shore up its reliability," the source said.

    The YaMZ-780 6-cylinder diesel engine was unveiled at the Army 2016 military-technical forum held outside Moscow in September 2016. According to the official specifications provided by the Yaroslavl Motor-Building Plant, it has a liter capacity of 12.6 l, a rated power output of 750 h.p., a rated engine speed of 2,300 rpm, a maximum torque of 260 kgf/m, a speed at maximum torque of 1,600 rpm, a specific fuel consumption of 165 g/hr/h.p., a base weight of 1,050 kg, a length of 1,274 mm, a width of 850 mm, a height of 1,334 mm, and a service life of 2,500 hours. The YaMZ-780 diesel engine is intended for cross-country vehicles.

    Source: Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/september_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/russia_s_kurganets-25_and_bumerang_infantry_fighting_vehicles_to_get_new_diesel_engines_22009163_tass.html



    Nothing special, the Russians are just keeping the tradition. Back in World War 2, the Russian tanks used diesel engines, while the Germans were used petrol engines, and the Russian ones were more fuel efficient than the German "gas-guzzling monsters". Of course, we are talking about APC/IFV engines, and western adversaries are using diesel engines too. BTW it is nice to see some technical parameters.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:47 am

    Benya wrote:Kurganets and Boomerang will get a new heart


    Russia's Kurganets-25 and Bumerang infantry fighting vehicles to get new diesel engines

    The newest Kurganets-25 and Bumerang (Boomerang) infantry fighting vehicles (IFV) developed by the Tractor Plants Concern and the Military Industrial Company, respectively will get new diesel engines, according to a source in the Russian defense industry.


    A K-17 Bumerang armored infantry fighting vehicle
    (Credit: Vitaly V. Kuzmin)

    "The YaMZ-780 diesel engine developed by the Yaroslavl Motor-Building Plant [a subsidiary of the GAZ Group] has already been installed on the Kurganets-25 IFV. At present, the updated vehicle is successfully passing the relevant trials. We have tested YaMZ-780 at the test rig, and the engine has confirmed its highest performance. The maneuver capabilities of the Kurganets-25 IFVs will be increased in a drastic manner," the source said. He did not specify the terms of the works. The BMP-2 and BMP-3 IFVs are powered by UTD20S1 (300 h.p.) and UTD29 (500 h.p.) diesel engines, he reminded.

    The source added that the original power output of the YaMZ-780 engine (1,000 h.p.) had been intentionally reduced in order to meet the terms of reference issued by the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD). "The Yaroslavl Motor-Building Plant has reduced the YaMZ-780 power output upon the MoD`s requests. It can be increased to 900-1,100 h.p. any day of the week. We have integrated a backup control system, a backup air start system, and a preheater with the motor in order to shore up its reliability," the source said.

    The YaMZ-780 6-cylinder diesel engine was unveiled at the Army 2016 military-technical forum held outside Moscow in September 2016. According to the official specifications provided by the Yaroslavl Motor-Building Plant, it has a liter capacity of 12.6 l, a rated power output of 750 h.p., a rated engine speed of 2,300 rpm, a maximum torque of 260 kgf/m, a speed at maximum torque of 1,600 rpm, a specific fuel consumption of 165 g/hr/h.p., a base weight of 1,050 kg, a length of 1,274 mm, a width of 850 mm, a height of 1,334 mm, and a service life of 2,500 hours. The YaMZ-780 diesel engine is intended for cross-country vehicles.

    Source: Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/september_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/russia_s_kurganets-25_and_bumerang_infantry_fighting_vehicles_to_get_new_diesel_engines_22009163_tass.html



    Nothing special, the Russians are just keeping the tradition. Back in World War 2, the Russian tanks used diesel engines, while the Germans were used petrol engines, and the Russian ones were more fuel efficient than the German "gas-guzzling monsters". Of course, we are talking about APC/IFV engines, and western adversaries are using diesel engines too. BTW it is nice to see some technical parameters.

    For a medium weight AFV to potentially get a 1,100 horse power diesel engine is pretty staggering! Let's put this in to perspective: T-90/1000 HP engine, and T-90MS/1130 HP engine. The question remains, is all that HP needed?

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  kvs on Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:58 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Benya wrote:Kurganets and Boomerang will get a new heart


    Russia's Kurganets-25 and Bumerang infantry fighting vehicles to get new diesel engines

    The newest Kurganets-25 and Bumerang (Boomerang) infantry fighting vehicles (IFV) developed by the Tractor Plants Concern and the Military Industrial Company, respectively will get new diesel engines, according to a source in the Russian defense industry.


    A K-17 Bumerang armored infantry fighting vehicle
    (Credit: Vitaly V. Kuzmin)

    "The YaMZ-780 diesel engine developed by the Yaroslavl Motor-Building Plant [a subsidiary of the GAZ Group] has already been installed on the Kurganets-25 IFV. At present, the updated vehicle is successfully passing the relevant trials. We have tested YaMZ-780 at the test rig, and the engine has confirmed its highest performance. The maneuver capabilities of the Kurganets-25 IFVs will be increased in a drastic manner," the source said. He did not specify the terms of the works. The BMP-2 and BMP-3 IFVs are powered by UTD20S1 (300 h.p.) and UTD29 (500 h.p.) diesel engines, he reminded.

    The source added that the original power output of the YaMZ-780 engine (1,000 h.p.) had been intentionally reduced in order to meet the terms of reference issued by the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD). "The Yaroslavl Motor-Building Plant has reduced the YaMZ-780 power output upon the MoD`s requests. It can be increased to 900-1,100 h.p. any day of the week. We have integrated a backup control system, a backup air start system, and a preheater with the motor in order to shore up its reliability," the source said.

    The YaMZ-780 6-cylinder diesel engine was unveiled at the Army 2016 military-technical forum held outside Moscow in September 2016. According to the official specifications provided by the Yaroslavl Motor-Building Plant, it has a liter capacity of 12.6 l, a rated power output of 750 h.p., a rated engine speed of 2,300 rpm, a maximum torque of 260 kgf/m, a speed at maximum torque of 1,600 rpm, a specific fuel consumption of 165 g/hr/h.p., a base weight of 1,050 kg, a length of 1,274 mm, a width of 850 mm, a height of 1,334 mm, and a service life of 2,500 hours. The YaMZ-780 diesel engine is intended for cross-country vehicles.

    Source: Arrow http://www.armyrecognition.com/september_2016_global_defense_security_news_industry/russia_s_kurganets-25_and_bumerang_infantry_fighting_vehicles_to_get_new_diesel_engines_22009163_tass.html



    Nothing special, the Russians are just keeping the tradition. Back in World War 2, the Russian tanks used diesel engines, while the Germans were used petrol engines, and the Russian ones were more fuel efficient than the German "gas-guzzling monsters". Of course, we are talking about APC/IFV engines, and western adversaries are using diesel engines too. BTW it is nice to see some technical parameters.

    For a medium weight AFV to potentially get a 1,100 horse power diesel engine is pretty staggering! Let's put this in to perspective: T-90/1000 HP engine, and T-90MS/1130 HP engine. The question remains, is all that HP needed?

    I think off road it is needed. The thing is not all that light compared to a car. I wouldn't call a 110 hp engine impressive on a 2.5 ton car.

    Spare horsepower do not hurt. I think the concept of using a small engine to save fuel is BS. They should turn off cylinders to
    save fuel instead of shrinking the engine at the expense of utility.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:40 am

    KVS got a point. No expert on engines but is that common technology to cut cylinders when needed to safe fuel?

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  wilhelm on Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:16 am

    Nice. So it is a powerful engine, that has been "governed" or depowered for normal use, but with the option of rapidly getting its full power when needed.
    In peacetime, the lesser power will mean less wear-and-tear and lower maintenance and fuel consumtion.
    At full power, when needed, that is a lot of power on tap for a vehicle of that weight. thumbsup

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:33 am

    The Kurganets and Boomerang are vehicle families and over time added weight often reduces performance.

    Having a derated engine improves engine life and often reduces fuel consumption, but also allows growth potential for future weight increases.

    As long as the transmissions can take the extra power then there should be several benefits to using derated engines... including being able to use the same engine for vehicles in different weight classes, and also allowing longer term use of what is basically the same engine in a larger number of vehicle platforms.

    Certainly this engine would also be useful in a heavy prime mover truck as well... and I would think a light aircraft could probably use it too.


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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  hoom on Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:59 am

    Hmm, originally quoted using 500hp.
    Does this mean its overweight -> needs more power, or is it just a bit of standardisation with Kurganets (originally quoted 800hp)?

    Spare horsepower do not hurt
    Potentially does. Running a more powerful engine at reduced power may not be as efficient as a smaller one at designed power -> could hurt range/runtime, or if the drivetrain wasn't designed for that kind of power it could hurt reliability (has happened to a bunch of historical vehicles).

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  robognus on Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:19 am






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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:50 pm

    Werewolf wrote:KVS got a point. No expert on engines but is that common technology to cut cylinders when needed to safe fuel?

    It is, but from what i am aware as of now it has been used only on commercial vehicles aka.. cars.

    Active Fuel Management is the system GM uses for Chevrolet and Cadillac.

    Technology itself is most often refered to as "variable displacement managament".


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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  kvs on Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:04 am

    Militarov wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:KVS got a point. No expert on engines but is that common technology to cut cylinders when needed to safe fuel?

    It is, but from what i am aware as of now it has been used only on commercial vehicles aka.. cars.

    Active Fuel Management is the system GM uses for Chevrolet and Cadillac.

    Technology itself is most often refered to as "variable displacement managament".


    I admit it is not the ultimate fuel saving since energy is wasted moving "dead" pistons. But these days pistons are made out of aluminum to reduce
    such losses.

    Another approach would be to use two 4 cylinder diesels to drive an electric motor or motors. One of these engines could be
    turned off to save 50% of the fuel when not needed. Electric motors have spectacular torque characteristics what is needed for
    off road. They use electric drive on the large mobile ICBM trucks.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  hoom on Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:13 pm

    robognus wrote:
    I like that they are working on a more standardised side armor module.
    The Victory Day parade version looked like a bit of a logistical nightmare.

    Also I don't think its been mentioned around here but apparently the Victory Day parade versions had some kind of temporary engine mounted not where it's supposed to be.
    The newer ones that have shown up in some pics/vids have them in the correct places.
    On Victory Day parade the driver is just ahead of the turret in the center, with engine vents forward & left where the driver was supposed to be.

    vs the 'Military Acceptance' vid where driver is forward & left where he should be.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:54 pm

    hoom wrote:
    robognus wrote:
    I like that they are working on a more standardised side armor module.
    The Victory Day parade version looked like a bit of a logistical nightmare.

    Also I don't think its been mentioned around here but apparently the Victory Day parade versions had some kind of temporary engine mounted not where it's supposed to be.
    The newer ones that have shown up in some pics/vids have them in the correct places.
    On Victory Day parade the driver is just ahead of the turret in the center, with engine vents forward & left where the driver was supposed to be.

    vs the 'Military Acceptance' vid where driver is forward & left where he should be.

    Keep in mind they both have completely different turrets, and the Military Acceptance version has a much bigger armament in comparison, and thus will have a much larger turret ring, meaning the crew openings will likely need to be moved forward.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

    Post  zg18 on Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:45 am

    New video


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