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    Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

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    AirCargo

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    Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  AirCargo on Wed May 13, 2015 8:24 am

    Scores of Russian soldiers killed in east Ukraine: Opposition Report

    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0NX0WA20150512?irpc=932
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed May 13, 2015 8:37 am

    I'd say this latest propaganda piece belongs in the Ukraine thread....poor Nemtsov didn't live to see it published
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Werewolf on Wed May 13, 2015 9:08 am

    This report holds no evidence it is just assumptions and Nemzovs notes on a little paper without any evidence.
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 13, 2015 10:00 am

    220 soldiers dead in a year of fighting? If I understand well, compared to NATO/UA estimates this means that at any given time there were less than 20 KIA per month, which taking a general ratio of 5% KIA accounts that each month about 1000 Russian "regulars" were involved. If we have a rotation of 60 days (worst estimate-should be lower) this means the Russians fvcked up Ukraine with 3 battalions. Techinically this seems feasible and falls in line with my own assumption.

    Now 150 killed around Illovaisk? That's something I'd like to see evidence off. Especially since the Separatists* themselves lost less than 300 men.
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  max steel on Wed May 13, 2015 10:19 am

    Reuters is US outlet . They've been discredited many times earlier . those numbers are authentic or not is unknown..
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 13, 2015 10:26 am

    Once again, 220 killed in a year being "former" or current Russian soldiers or not, isn't much. This isn't Iraq or Afghanistan, it's a hot warzone with an enemy that has the higher hand on equipment. Those Russians killed along the year, are very few compared to the havoc they have wrecked. We're speaking about the Ukrainian army losing more than 1100 AFV's. Ukrainian losses from that perspective are enormous. And undisclosed. If even John Kerry says that Ukrops need to cool down, before they wreck themselves, that means the situation is really dire for Ukropia.
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Werewolf on Wed May 13, 2015 10:30 am

    This numbers are made up. There is no evidence not to mention there are no russian regular troops in ukraine.
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 13, 2015 10:33 am

    Werewolf wrote:This numbers are made up. There is no evidence not to mention there are no russian regular troops in ukraine.

    Man you can pound your head in the sand, but even people like Cassad and Saker spoke about Northern Wind. It is ridiculous to say the contrary. However. Remember the 4K KIA sold by one fat lady? Well it turns out, that even those who have an issue with Russia's current leadership can't muster more than 220 dead. Which is, IMO, normal if the operation is sustained from June/July 2014 until now.
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Werewolf on Wed May 13, 2015 10:37 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:This numbers are made up. There is no evidence not to mention there are no russian regular troops in ukraine.

    Man you can pound your head in the sand, but even people like Cassad and Saker spoke about Northern Wind. It is ridiculous to say the contrary. However. Remember the 4K KIA sold by one fat lady? Well it turns out, that even those who have an issue with Russia's current leadership can't muster more than 220 dead. Which is, IMO, normal if the operation is sustained from June/July 2014 until now.

    You can jerk off on made up numbers that are based upon nothing else but western assumptions, no hard evidence. Fact is there are no REGULAR TROOPS, you can jerk off to whatever you want. Special Forces yes, no regular troops period, otherwise we would had enough evidence by now, but we don't.

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Guest on Wed May 13, 2015 10:49 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:This numbers are made up. There is no evidence not to mention there are no russian regular troops in ukraine.

    Man you can pound your head in the sand, but even people like Cassad and Saker spoke about Northern Wind. It is ridiculous to say the contrary. However. Remember the 4K KIA sold by one fat lady? Well it turns out, that even those who have an issue with Russia's current leadership can't muster more than 220 dead. Which is, IMO, normal if the operation is sustained from June/July 2014 until now.
    I do think that the Northern Wind did gently push the NAF to the Azov Sea, those numbers are made to be a little high. We would have started to hear things from families and not just fabricated stories from the foreign press. There were those four captured Russian soldiers but that is the only evidence they have.

    The Northern Wind also demonstrates the combat prowess of the Russian Infantry and the Cavalry. If they lost just four men but they were able to inflict casualties upwards of 4k on the Hohols even without artillery cover or any air support.
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 13, 2015 11:00 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:This numbers are made up. There is no evidence not to mention there are no russian regular troops in ukraine.

    Man you can pound your head in the sand, but even people like Cassad and Saker spoke about Northern Wind. It is ridiculous to say the contrary. However. Remember the 4K KIA sold by one fat lady? Well it turns out, that even those who have an issue with Russia's current leadership can't muster more than 220 dead. Which is, IMO, normal if the operation is sustained from June/July 2014 until now.
    I do think that the Northern Wind did gently push the NAF to the Azov Sea, those numbers are made to be a little high. We would have started to hear things from families and not just fabricated stories from the foreign press. There were those four captured Russian soldiers but that is the only evidence they have.

    The Northern Wind also demonstrates the combat prowess of the Russian Infantry and the Cavalry. If they lost just four men but they were able to inflict casualties upwards of 4k on the Hohols even without artillery cover or any air support.

    I do understand that NW was a set piece action. And that's why IMO these numbers can be close to the truth for all "Russian" personnel. It's an almost year long war since June. Illovaisk, I'm sure hasn't killed 150 "Russians", for the simple fact that they clearly steamrolled the Ukrainians. 150 casualties KIA/WIA/MIA that could be belivable, Although looks very optimistic. Debaltsevo again, 70 Kia doesn't look bad, given how generally un-even NAF performance was along the sectors.

    All in all, on the long course 220 dead for destroying Ukraine's war machine in an attrition war? That's amazing.
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Neutrality on Wed May 13, 2015 11:19 am

    And how do they distinguish between a Russian soldier who has orders from high command and a Russian guy with military past (basically every male in Russia) who was there as a volunteer?
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 13, 2015 11:25 am

    Neutrality wrote:And how do they distinguish between a Russian soldier who has orders from high command and a Russian guy with military past (basically every male in Russia) who was there as a volunteer?

    They don't, that's the tricky part. As described, they relate to soldiers being "forced" to leave the Army. IMO the sequence is this. You want to make a buck? Yes. Ok, sign here, it's your discharge. Sign here, it's your new, non military contract. There are no "conscripts" sent in Ukraine. The guys going there ARE volunteers, military background or not. Even the Buryat guy said so. They were asked if they wanted to go. And as I see this, Russians, indeed are eagr to fight for their own.

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 13, 2015 11:36 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:This numbers are made up. There is no evidence not to mention there are no russian regular troops in ukraine.

    Man you can pound your head in the sand, but even people like Cassad and Saker spoke about Northern Wind. It is ridiculous to say the contrary. However. Remember the 4K KIA sold by one fat lady? Well it turns out, that even those who have an issue with Russia's current leadership can't muster more than 220 dead. Which is, IMO, normal if the operation is sustained from June/July 2014 until now.

    Cassad and Saker have been wrong many times.. Is impossible to know if there are "Russian active Soldiers" from the Russian army by Internet warriors.. How will they know? Rumors? Russian soldiers can be anyone , about 8 millions Russians live in Ukraine.. so effectively
    you can have thousands of "Russian soldiers" that are never have been in the army and always lived in Ukraine and just got a few weeks training and a Rifle and went to the combat zone.

    Is impossible to know by looking at dead bodies who is from Ukraine or Russia.. can Cassad knows? If there was Russian Soldiers in Ukraine they will be without Passport , so again they will not know.. Any civilian from Ukraine or Russia that consider itself Russian and goes to help Donetsk can be counted as  "Russian Soldier" .   The fact that all defense forces fighting
    in donetsk and lugansk.. can buy Russian Army uniforms.. that does not make them Russian soldiers if they killed.. as a matter of fact in the latest VICE report.. the pro Kiev Forces..are also
    Using RUssian Army uniforms.. and one was killed just the other day.. perhaps he wanted to sneak into Rebels zones passing as a "Russian Soldier"..  Kiev and the opposition simply are spreading propaganda in hopes to create unrest in Russia with reports of "hundreds of Russian soldiers killed" ,this is not new.. actually Yatsen  have claimed before that they killed 12,000 "Russian Soldiers" in the airport alone.. lol1  but yet they show no evidence of a single Russian Army soldier killed ,his name or any evidence of their claims ..of a Russian Army invasion..
    Yatsenyuk also claimed Russia used nukes to capture the Lugansk Airport.. Rolling Eyes  

    What Donetsk have said since the start is that there are Volunteers from Russia and from Europe that are helping them ,some of them without experience in combat and others veterans retired from the afgan war or chechen war.. ie.. Old people.  Motorola is one of them..
    But they are not part of Russian army federation.. neither they fight with the capabilities of the Russian Armed forces.. if that was the case ,Russian tanks long time ago will have been in kiev.

    What you have in Ukraine is Locals civilians from Ukraine ,defectors from ukrainian army and volunteers from Russia and Europe helping the rebels.. Russia supply logistics for sure and
    probably some portable weapons too..   but vast majority of the rebels equipment comes
    from the Ukrainian army ,what they capture from there.. or that Ukrainians defectors sell to them.

    There are NO Russian Army active forces in Ukraine , only locals and volunteers.. from Ukraine ,from Russia and Europe. some with combat experience and others not.. and likely with Russian Government give them help in weapons ,advisors ,mechanics and logistics.. Is not like you need a real army to defeat the Ukraine army and its volunteers battalions that do not have experience in combat. And neither Russian government needs to use its army to help the Rebels.. it will be far cheaper to use volunteers ,retired from the army ,that do not need be paid much.


     In the other have Kiev is receiving HUGE HELP.. from NATO.. From Poland ,Lituane,Canada and USA.. According to Donetsk media ,Polish and American well armed mercenaries were in the airport ,that they managed to hold for very long..and they were kicked from there. But contrary to kiev they do show evidence of it.. of american weapons and humvees in their control. i uploaded videos of that before.. there is also reports of US army general and CIA advisors leading the operation of Kiev against the rebels..early in the conflict.. and how kiev military was
    complaining about their questionable tactics.. that got in cauldrons many thousands of kiev forces encircled.. also reports of english speaking Afro Americans killed in Donetsk.. this was told by Donetsk minister..

    In summary Both Sides Kiev and Donetsk receive mercenary help from abroad..this is a fact.
    And both sides Russia and NATO are helping with regular weapons their side.. what there is zero
    evidence is of Russian Federation armed forces or NATO official armies fighting there.. There is
    no need for that.. when you can hire mercenaries.. and volunteers.. however there is evidence of NATO armies training in kiev .. AND nato weapons captured by the rebels including hunvee ,nato drones and modern anti artillery radar equipment.. captured in devaltsevo..

    Whenever any report comes from western propaganda of " RUssian soldiers" killed.. they never
    backup it with any evidence other than "claims" from opposition activist or from kiev.. how can they know ? do they go to the front line where there are bomb falling to count the bodies? No
    and do DNA test to know if they are Russians or Ukrainians and hack Russian Army servers to know if they work for the Russian army? Complete idiocy.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed May 13, 2015 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  flamming_python on Wed May 13, 2015 11:43 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:And how do they distinguish between a Russian soldier who has orders from high command and a Russian guy with military past (basically every male in Russia) who was there as a volunteer?

    They don't, that's the tricky part. As described, they relate to soldiers being "forced" to leave the Army. IMO the sequence is this. You want to make a buck? Yes. Ok, sign here, it's your discharge. Sign here, it's your new, non military contract. There are no "conscripts" sent in Ukraine. The guys going there ARE volunteers, military background or not. Even the Buryat guy said so. They were asked if they wanted to go. And as I see this, Russians, indeed are eagr to fight for their own.

    Quite possibly yes. However I think that there are active-duty Russian military there too. The Russians wouldn't just let anyone operate the Pantsir-S1s and EW systems they have there.
    Those Ukrainian armour columns were destroyed pretty sharpish too. Wouldn't be surprised to hear of Spetsnaz with laser artillery designators.
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 13, 2015 11:51 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:And how do they distinguish between a Russian soldier who has orders from high command and a Russian guy with military past (basically every male in Russia) who was there as a volunteer?

    They don't, that's the tricky part. As described, they relate to soldiers being "forced" to leave the Army. IMO the sequence is this. You want to make a buck? Yes. Ok, sign here, it's your discharge. Sign here, it's your new, non military contract. There are no "conscripts" sent in Ukraine. The guys going there ARE volunteers, military background or not. Even the Buryat guy said so. They were asked if they wanted to go. And as I see this, Russians, indeed are eagr to fight for their own.

    Quite possibly yes. However I think that there are active-duty Russian military there too. The Russians wouldn't just let anyone operate the Pantsir-S1s and EW systems they have there.
    Those Ukrainian armour columns were destroyed pretty sharpish too. Wouldn't be surprised to hear of Spetsnaz with laser artillery designators.

    Off course there are. It was evident when CBR's started popping left and right that there were Russian specialists. As for the Pantsir, we never saw it in position. All you need is two guys driving in the Pantsir, for PR. For real work you already have a wide coverage from "accross" the border and from more classical SA-8/13 the NAF displayed. The columns were also very stupidly driven in most cases. The famous crossroads during Illovaisk that was just a slaughter waiting to happen. Furthermore Rusich ambushed Aidar and the 128th pretty clean too, those guys weren't "pro's". It has as much to do with real combat capability from Russia and total nonsense and ineptitude from Ukraine.
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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 13, 2015 11:55 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:This numbers are made up. There is no evidence not to mention there are no russian regular troops in ukraine.

    Man you can pound your head in the sand, but even people like Cassad and Saker spoke about Northern Wind. It is ridiculous to say the contrary. However. Remember the 4K KIA sold by one fat lady? Well it turns out, that even those who have an issue with Russia's current leadership can't muster more than 220 dead. Which is, IMO, normal if the operation is sustained from June/July 2014 until now.

    Cassad and Saker have been wrong many times.. Is impossible to know if there are "Russian active Soldiers" from the Russian army by Internet warriors.. How will they know? Rumors?
    Russian soldiers can be anyone , about 8 millions Russians live in Ukraine.. so effectively
    you can have thousands of "Russian soldiers" that are never have been in the army and always lived in Ukraine and just got a few weeks training and a Rifle and went to the combat zone.

    Is impossible to know by looking at dead bodies who is from Ukraine or Russia.. can Cassad knows? If there was Russian Soldiers in Ukraine they will be without Passport , so again they will not know.. Any civilian from Ukraine or Russia that consider itself Russian and goes to help Donetsk can be counted as  "Russian Soldier" .   The fact that all defense forces fighting
    in donetsk and lugansk.. can buy Russian Army uniforms.. that does not make them Russian soldiers if they killed.. as a matter of fact in the latest VICE report.. the pro Kiev Forces..are also
    Using RUssian Army uniforms.. and one was killed just the other day.. perhaps he wanted to sneak into Rebels zones passing as a "Russian Soldier"..  Kiev and the opposition simply are spreading propaganda in hopes to create unrest in Russia with reports of "hundreds of Russian soldiers killed" ,this is not new.. actually Yatsen  have claimed before that they killed 12,000 "Russian Soldiers" in the airport alone.. lol1  but yet they show no evidence of a single soldier killed ,his name or any conclusive evidence of a Russian Army invasion..  

    What Donetsk have said since the start is that there are Volunteers from Russia and from Europe that are helping them ,some of them without experience in combat and others veterans retired from the afgan war or chechen war.. ie.. Old people.  Motorola is one of them..
    But they are not part of Russian army federation.. neither they fight with the capabilities of the Russian Armed forces.. if that was the case ,Russian tanks long time ago will have been in kiev.

    What you have in Ukraine is Locals civilians from Ukraine ,defectors from ukrainian army and volunteers from Russia and Europe helping the rebels.. Russia supply logistics for sure and
    probably some portable weapons too..   but vast majority of the rebels equipment comes
    from the Ukrainian army ,what they capture from there.. or that Ukrainians defectors sell to them.

    NO Russian Army in Ukraine , only locals and volunteers.. from Ukraine ,Russia and Europe. and likely with Russian help in weapons ,advisors ,mechanics and logistics.. Is not like you need a real army to defeat the Ukraine army and its volunteers battalions that do not have experience in combat.  In the other have Kiev is receiving HUGE HELP.. from NATO.. there is reports since 2014 or US army generals and advisors leading the operation of Kiev against the rebels.. also reports of english speaking ,Afro Americans killed in Donetsk.. for sure special forces from black water ,this was told by Donetsk minister.. and they also told that they receive help from volunteers of Russia and Europe , with combat experience.. but fighting with Ak-47 and mostly Soviet weapons they capture from Kiev.


    Sure at least three full battalions IN Ukraine, those are volunteers. There are Russian weapons in Ukraine, there are Russian soldiers (past or present), there are also Russian GENERALS in Ukraine. Technically speaking. So please just stop this nonsense. I'm grateful that they are there.

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 13, 2015 12:02 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:This numbers are made up. There is no evidence not to mention there are no russian regular troops in ukraine.

    Man you can pound your head in the sand, but even people like Cassad and Saker spoke about Northern Wind. It is ridiculous to say the contrary. However. Remember the 4K KIA sold by one fat lady? Well it turns out, that even those who have an issue with Russia's current leadership can't muster more than 220 dead. Which is, IMO, normal if the operation is sustained from June/July 2014 until now.

    Cassad and Saker have been wrong many times.. Is impossible to know if there are "Russian active Soldiers" from the Russian army by Internet warriors.. How will they know? Rumors?
    Russian soldiers can be anyone , about 8 millions Russians live in Ukraine.. so effectively
    you can have thousands of "Russian soldiers" that are never have been in the army and always lived in Ukraine and just got a few weeks training and a Rifle and went to the combat zone.

    Is impossible to know by looking at dead bodies who is from Ukraine or Russia.. can Cassad knows? If there was Russian Soldiers in Ukraine they will be without Passport , so again they will not know.. Any civilian from Ukraine or Russia that consider itself Russian and goes to help Donetsk can be counted as  "Russian Soldier" .   The fact that all defense forces fighting
    in donetsk and lugansk.. can buy Russian Army uniforms.. that does not make them Russian soldiers if they killed.. as a matter of fact in the latest VICE report.. the pro Kiev Forces..are also
    Using RUssian Army uniforms.. and one was killed just the other day.. perhaps he wanted to sneak into Rebels zones passing as a "Russian Soldier"..  Kiev and the opposition simply are spreading propaganda in hopes to create unrest in Russia with reports of "hundreds of Russian soldiers killed" ,this is not new.. actually Yatsen  have claimed before that they killed 12,000 "Russian Soldiers" in the airport alone.. lol1  but yet they show no evidence of a single soldier killed ,his name or any conclusive evidence of a Russian Army invasion..  

    What Donetsk have said since the start is that there are Volunteers from Russia and from Europe that are helping them ,some of them without experience in combat and others veterans retired from the afgan war or chechen war.. ie.. Old people.  Motorola is one of them..
    But they are not part of Russian army federation.. neither they fight with the capabilities of the Russian Armed forces.. if that was the case ,Russian tanks long time ago will have been in kiev.

    What you have in Ukraine is Locals civilians from Ukraine ,defectors from ukrainian army and volunteers from Russia and Europe helping the rebels.. Russia supply logistics for sure and
    probably some portable weapons too..   but vast majority of the rebels equipment comes
    from the Ukrainian army ,what they capture from there.. or that Ukrainians defectors sell to them.

    NO Russian Army in Ukraine , only locals and volunteers.. from Ukraine ,Russia and Europe. and likely with Russian help in weapons ,advisors ,mechanics and logistics.. Is not like you need a real army to defeat the Ukraine army and its volunteers battalions that do not have experience in combat.  In the other have Kiev is receiving HUGE HELP.. from NATO.. there is reports since 2014 or US army generals and advisors leading the operation of Kiev against the rebels.. also reports of english speaking ,Afro Americans killed in Donetsk.. for sure special forces from black water ,this was told by Donetsk minister.. and they also told that they receive help from volunteers of Russia and Europe , with combat experience.. but fighting with Ak-47 and mostly Soviet weapons they capture from Kiev.


    Sure at least three full battalions IN Ukraine, those are volunteers. There are Russian weapons in Ukraine, there are Russian soldiers (past or present), there are also Russian GENERALS in Ukraine. Technically speaking. So please just stop this nonsense. I'm grateful that they are there.

    Then backup your claims with evidence? Which "Russian Generals" are fighting in ukraine?
    names? Videos? Pictures? oh yeah. you have NOTHING!!!!

    The only Russian Generals that are in Ukraine are the Unarmed Monitors working with OSCE ,
    and only because KIEV Requested them.. there. they are not participating in any combat operation and simply helping OSCE..

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 13, 2015 12:06 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Neutrality wrote:And how do they distinguish between a Russian soldier who has orders from high command and a Russian guy with military past (basically every male in Russia) who was there as a volunteer?

    They don't, that's the tricky part. As described, they relate to soldiers being "forced" to leave the Army. IMO the sequence is this. You want to make a buck? Yes. Ok, sign here, it's your discharge. Sign here, it's your new, non military contract. There are no "conscripts" sent in Ukraine. The guys going there ARE volunteers, military background or not. Even the Buryat guy said so. They were asked if they wanted to go. And as I see this, Russians, indeed are eagr to fight for their own.

    Quite possibly yes. However I think that there are active-duty Russian military there too. The Russians wouldn't just let anyone operate the Pantsir-S1s and EW systems they have there.
    Those Ukrainian armour columns were destroyed pretty sharpish too. Wouldn't be surprised to hear of Spetsnaz with laser artillery designators.

    Backup your claims with evidence .. Which Pantisir missiles are in Ukraine?
    You were the first ignorant claiming "Russia shot down the Malasyan" plane ,with a pantsir ,so nothing will surprise me about your "knowledge". I haven't seen any evidence of Pantsirs in Ukraine in control of the Rebels .. please show "evidence" of pantsirs in control of the rebels ,
    if not then shut up .. Such things will be impossible to hide with so many journalist there..including from Kiev. the only pantsirs claimed to be in "posession of rebels". were in reality a photo taken in Ukraine army controlled zones.. so it was BUllSHIT .. Like your claims.

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 13, 2015 12:09 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:This numbers are made up. There is no evidence not to mention there are no russian regular troops in ukraine.

    Man you can pound your head in the sand, but even people like Cassad and Saker spoke about Northern Wind. It is ridiculous to say the contrary. However. Remember the 4K KIA sold by one fat lady? Well it turns out, that even those who have an issue with Russia's current leadership can't muster more than 220 dead. Which is, IMO, normal if the operation is sustained from June/July 2014 until now.

    Cassad and Saker have been wrong many times.. Is impossible to know if there are "Russian active Soldiers" from the Russian army by Internet warriors.. How will they know? Rumors?
    Russian soldiers can be anyone , about 8 millions Russians live in Ukraine.. so effectively
    you can have thousands of "Russian soldiers" that are never have been in the army and always lived in Ukraine and just got a few weeks training and a Rifle and went to the combat zone.

    Is impossible to know by looking at dead bodies who is from Ukraine or Russia.. can Cassad knows? If there was Russian Soldiers in Ukraine they will be without Passport , so again they will not know.. Any civilian from Ukraine or Russia that consider itself Russian and goes to help Donetsk can be counted as  "Russian Soldier" .   The fact that all defense forces fighting
    in donetsk and lugansk.. can buy Russian Army uniforms.. that does not make them Russian soldiers if they killed.. as a matter of fact in the latest VICE report.. the pro Kiev Forces..are also
    Using RUssian Army uniforms.. and one was killed just the other day.. perhaps he wanted to sneak into Rebels zones passing as a "Russian Soldier"..  Kiev and the opposition simply are spreading propaganda in hopes to create unrest in Russia with reports of "hundreds of Russian soldiers killed" ,this is not new.. actually Yatsen  have claimed before that they killed 12,000 "Russian Soldiers" in the airport alone.. lol1  but yet they show no evidence of a single soldier killed ,his name or any conclusive evidence of a Russian Army invasion..  

    What Donetsk have said since the start is that there are Volunteers from Russia and from Europe that are helping them ,some of them without experience in combat and others veterans retired from the afgan war or chechen war.. ie.. Old people.  Motorola is one of them..
    But they are not part of Russian army federation.. neither they fight with the capabilities of the Russian Armed forces.. if that was the case ,Russian tanks long time ago will have been in kiev.

    What you have in Ukraine is Locals civilians from Ukraine ,defectors from ukrainian army and volunteers from Russia and Europe helping the rebels.. Russia supply logistics for sure and
    probably some portable weapons too..   but vast majority of the rebels equipment comes
    from the Ukrainian army ,what they capture from there.. or that Ukrainians defectors sell to them.

    NO Russian Army in Ukraine , only locals and volunteers.. from Ukraine ,Russia and Europe. and likely with Russian help in weapons ,advisors ,mechanics and logistics.. Is not like you need a real army to defeat the Ukraine army and its volunteers battalions that do not have experience in combat.  In the other have Kiev is receiving HUGE HELP.. from NATO.. there is reports since 2014 or US army generals and advisors leading the operation of Kiev against the rebels.. also reports of english speaking ,Afro Americans killed in Donetsk.. for sure special forces from black water ,this was told by Donetsk minister.. and they also told that they receive help from volunteers of Russia and Europe , with combat experience.. but fighting with Ak-47 and mostly Soviet weapons they capture from Kiev.


    Sure at least three full battalions IN Ukraine, those are volunteers. There are Russian weapons in Ukraine, there are Russian soldiers (past or present), there are also Russian GENERALS in Ukraine. Technically speaking. So please just stop this nonsense. I'm grateful that they are there.

    Then backup your claims with evidence? Which "Russian Generals" are fighting in ukraine?
    names? Videos? Pictures? oh yeah. you have NOTHING!!!!

    The only Russian Generals that are in Ukraine are the Unarmed Monitors working with OSCE ,
    and only because KIEV Requested them.. there. they are not participating in any combat operation and simply helping OSCE..



    That's the damn point, there are Russian troops in Ukraine, it was said in jest. You want to trade the same old crap about only volunteers and such. Sure, the losses of NAF amount to two armoured battalions. That's more than what the DRC could buy from Ukraine...The NAF has had on its hand at least 100 tanks. 100 tanks man most of them being being sourced from Russia. You want to play games, I don't. Ukraine made its bed when it stood still after the coup. This is payback.

    Are you for real? No pantsir in Ukraine? take a chill pill.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Werewolf on Wed May 13, 2015 12:12 pm

    It does not matter what you "know" it only matters what you can proof, period.

    Vann7

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 13, 2015 12:12 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:This numbers are made up. There is no evidence not to mention there are no russian regular troops in ukraine.

    Man you can pound your head in the sand, but even people like Cassad and Saker spoke about Northern Wind. It is ridiculous to say the contrary. However. Remember the 4K KIA sold by one fat lady? Well it turns out, that even those who have an issue with Russia's current leadership can't muster more than 220 dead. Which is, IMO, normal if the operation is sustained from June/July 2014 until now.

    Cassad and Saker have been wrong many times.. Is impossible to know if there are "Russian active Soldiers" from the Russian army by Internet warriors.. How will they know? Rumors?
    Russian soldiers can be anyone , about 8 millions Russians live in Ukraine.. so effectively
    you can have thousands of "Russian soldiers" that are never have been in the army and always lived in Ukraine and just got a few weeks training and a Rifle and went to the combat zone.

    Is impossible to know by looking at dead bodies who is from Ukraine or Russia.. can Cassad knows? If there was Russian Soldiers in Ukraine they will be without Passport , so again they will not know.. Any civilian from Ukraine or Russia that consider itself Russian and goes to help Donetsk can be counted as  "Russian Soldier" .   The fact that all defense forces fighting
    in donetsk and lugansk.. can buy Russian Army uniforms.. that does not make them Russian soldiers if they killed.. as a matter of fact in the latest VICE report.. the pro Kiev Forces..are also
    Using RUssian Army uniforms.. and one was killed just the other day.. perhaps he wanted to sneak into Rebels zones passing as a "Russian Soldier"..  Kiev and the opposition simply are spreading propaganda in hopes to create unrest in Russia with reports of "hundreds of Russian soldiers killed" ,this is not new.. actually Yatsen  have claimed before that they killed 12,000 "Russian Soldiers" in the airport alone.. lol1  but yet they show no evidence of a single soldier killed ,his name or any conclusive evidence of a Russian Army invasion..  

    What Donetsk have said since the start is that there are Volunteers from Russia and from Europe that are helping them ,some of them without experience in combat and others veterans retired from the afgan war or chechen war.. ie.. Old people.  Motorola is one of them..
    But they are not part of Russian army federation.. neither they fight with the capabilities of the Russian Armed forces.. if that was the case ,Russian tanks long time ago will have been in kiev.

    What you have in Ukraine is Locals civilians from Ukraine ,defectors from ukrainian army and volunteers from Russia and Europe helping the rebels.. Russia supply logistics for sure and
    probably some portable weapons too..   but vast majority of the rebels equipment comes
    from the Ukrainian army ,what they capture from there.. or that Ukrainians defectors sell to them.

    NO Russian Army in Ukraine , only locals and volunteers.. from Ukraine ,Russia and Europe. and likely with Russian help in weapons ,advisors ,mechanics and logistics.. Is not like you need a real army to defeat the Ukraine army and its volunteers battalions that do not have experience in combat.  In the other have Kiev is receiving HUGE HELP.. from NATO.. there is reports since 2014 or US army generals and advisors leading the operation of Kiev against the rebels.. also reports of english speaking ,Afro Americans killed in Donetsk.. for sure special forces from black water ,this was told by Donetsk minister.. and they also told that they receive help from volunteers of Russia and Europe , with combat experience.. but fighting with Ak-47 and mostly Soviet weapons they capture from Kiev.


    Sure at least three full battalions IN Ukraine, those are volunteers. There are Russian weapons in Ukraine, there are Russian soldiers (past or present), there are also Russian GENERALS in Ukraine. Technically speaking. So please just stop this nonsense. I'm grateful that they are there.

    Then backup your claims with evidence? Which "Russian Generals" are fighting in ukraine?
    names? Videos? Pictures? oh yeah. you have NOTHING!!!!

    The only Russian Generals that are in Ukraine are the Unarmed Monitors working with OSCE ,
    and only because KIEV Requested them.. there. they are not participating in any combat operation and simply helping OSCE..



    That's the damn point, there are Russian troops in Ukraine, it was said in jest. You want to trade the same old crap about only volunteers and such. Sure, the losses of NAF amount to two armoured battalions. That's more than what the DRC could buy from Ukraine...The NAF has had on its hand at least 100 tanks. 100 tanks man most of them being being sourced from Russia. You want to play games, I don't. Ukraine made its bed when it stood still after the coup. This is payback.

    Russian Troops ? Show me your evidence .and stop playing your bs games.. go ahead and show me evidence of Russian troops in Ukraine .. i dare you.. to show me a single evidence..you will show me no evidence ,because you have none.. Russian mercenaries Volunteers and Russian Army federation are 2 different things.. The Russian army will fight with the full capabilities and strengh of the RUssian army.. not with obsolete soviet weapons. By your logic we will say that France army is also helping the Rebels..and Serbian army too.. and brazilian army too.. because there are serbians ,French and Brazilians mercenaries helping donetsk too. Rolling Eyes


    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed May 13, 2015 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed May 13, 2015 12:19 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:This numbers are made up. There is no evidence not to mention there are no russian regular troops in ukraine.

    Man you can pound your head in the sand, but even people like Cassad and Saker spoke about Northern Wind. It is ridiculous to say the contrary. However. Remember the 4K KIA sold by one fat lady? Well it turns out, that even those who have an issue with Russia's current leadership can't muster more than 220 dead. Which is, IMO, normal if the operation is sustained from June/July 2014 until now.

    Cassad and Saker have been wrong many times.. Is impossible to know if there are "Russian active Soldiers" from the Russian army by Internet warriors.. How will they know? Rumors?
    Russian soldiers can be anyone , about 8 millions Russians live in Ukraine.. so effectively
    you can have thousands of "Russian soldiers" that are never have been in the army and always lived in Ukraine and just got a few weeks training and a Rifle and went to the combat zone.

    Is impossible to know by looking at dead bodies who is from Ukraine or Russia.. can Cassad knows? If there was Russian Soldiers in Ukraine they will be without Passport , so again they will not know.. Any civilian from Ukraine or Russia that consider itself Russian and goes to help Donetsk can be counted as  "Russian Soldier" .   The fact that all defense forces fighting
    in donetsk and lugansk.. can buy Russian Army uniforms.. that does not make them Russian soldiers if they killed.. as a matter of fact in the latest VICE report.. the pro Kiev Forces..are also
    Using RUssian Army uniforms.. and one was killed just the other day.. perhaps he wanted to sneak into Rebels zones passing as a "Russian Soldier"..  Kiev and the opposition simply are spreading propaganda in hopes to create unrest in Russia with reports of "hundreds of Russian soldiers killed" ,this is not new.. actually Yatsen  have claimed before that they killed 12,000 "Russian Soldiers" in the airport alone.. lol1  but yet they show no evidence of a single soldier killed ,his name or any conclusive evidence of a Russian Army invasion..  

    What Donetsk have said since the start is that there are Volunteers from Russia and from Europe that are helping them ,some of them without experience in combat and others veterans retired from the afgan war or chechen war.. ie.. Old people.  Motorola is one of them..
    But they are not part of Russian army federation.. neither they fight with the capabilities of the Russian Armed forces.. if that was the case ,Russian tanks long time ago will have been in kiev.

    What you have in Ukraine is Locals civilians from Ukraine ,defectors from ukrainian army and volunteers from Russia and Europe helping the rebels.. Russia supply logistics for sure and
    probably some portable weapons too..   but vast majority of the rebels equipment comes
    from the Ukrainian army ,what they capture from there.. or that Ukrainians defectors sell to them.

    NO Russian Army in Ukraine , only locals and volunteers.. from Ukraine ,Russia and Europe. and likely with Russian help in weapons ,advisors ,mechanics and logistics.. Is not like you need a real army to defeat the Ukraine army and its volunteers battalions that do not have experience in combat.  In the other have Kiev is receiving HUGE HELP.. from NATO.. there is reports since 2014 or US army generals and advisors leading the operation of Kiev against the rebels.. also reports of english speaking ,Afro Americans killed in Donetsk.. for sure special forces from black water ,this was told by Donetsk minister.. and they also told that they receive help from volunteers of Russia and Europe , with combat experience.. but fighting with Ak-47 and mostly Soviet weapons they capture from Kiev.


    Sure at least three full battalions IN Ukraine, those are volunteers. There are Russian weapons in Ukraine, there are Russian soldiers (past or present), there are also Russian GENERALS in Ukraine. Technically speaking. So please just stop this nonsense. I'm grateful that they are there.

    Then backup your claims with evidence? Which "Russian Generals" are fighting in ukraine?
    names? Videos? Pictures? oh yeah. you have NOTHING!!!!

    The only Russian Generals that are in Ukraine are the Unarmed Monitors working with OSCE ,
    and only because KIEV Requested them.. there. they are not participating in any combat operation and simply helping OSCE..



    That's the damn point, there are Russian troops in Ukraine, it was said in jest. You want to trade the same old crap about only volunteers and such. Sure, the losses of NAF amount to two armoured battalions. That's more than what the DRC could buy from Ukraine...The NAF has had on its hand at least 100 tanks. 100 tanks man most of them being being sourced from Russia. You want to play games, I don't. Ukraine made its bed when it stood still after the coup. This is payback.

    Russian Troops ? Show me your evidence .and stop playing your bs games.. go ahead and show me evidence of Russian troops in Ukraine .. i dare you.. to show me a single evidence..
    There is no evidence of Russian Army in Ukraine .  Russian mercenaries Volunteers and Russian Army federation are 2 different things..  

    ... Sure they are different things in a parallel reality and plausible denial mode. But in reality, people have been called up, said if they wanted some action, said yes and incorporated into Northern Wind Ltd. There is ZERO difference at the end. I'm glad they are "russian volunteers" to pound Ukrops. Period.

    Werewolf: Prove? Prove what? 30 or so tanks crossed into UA territory from Russia nearby NvAzovsk and Russia saw nothing? You guys, wow, you really give me headaches. That make Russia like the GunNut eldorado. Wow. This is a whole new mental condition here.


    Last edited by KoTeMoRe on Wed May 13, 2015 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Werewolf on Wed May 13, 2015 12:22 pm

    You have been asked to provide evidence just resilient and garbage talk just like TR1.

    There are no evidence of russian REGULAR army in ukraine. Mercs are not RF soldiers period, does not matter how much you masturbate around your claims there are no evidence abscense of evidence is abscense of credibility of such claims, period.

    Vann7

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    Re: Alleged Russian Soldiers-Οperatives In Ukraine

    Post  Vann7 on Wed May 13, 2015 12:35 pm

    Werewolf wrote:You have been asked to provide evidence just resilient and garbage talk just like TR1.

    There are no evidence of russian REGULAR army in ukraine. Mercs are not RF soldiers period, does not matter how much you masturbate around your claims there are no evidence abscense of evidence is abscense of credibility of such claims, period.

    yes ,,is always the same BS.. you ask them for evidence and they say.. oh.. Kassad told or someone else told.. but no evidence. to backup their claims..  There is a big difference between
    Volunteers low level help to Donetsk and a Russia ARmy invasion in Ukraine.. is night day difference.. The Russian ARmy will fight with the full capabilities of the Russian army , Airforce ,and tanks.. Volunteers in the other hand can only fight with the "limited" weapons they get from  Donetsk and Lugansk captured from kiev or any help they get from Russia.

    I say "limited" because ,the loses of Kiev in armor in re-usable condition to the Rebels have been catastropic ,the Rebels have captured hundreds of tanks ,APCs and drones in devaltsevo city alone.. and have seen reports of NATO weapons too.. captured by them..too.  I believe Russia is helping them..specially with logistics and by allowing mercenaries from Russia to help them.. but claiming the Rebels have BUks and the Russian army is there is nonsense.

    As i said there are millions of ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.. who consider themselves Russians.. and speak Russian and the west or kiev could claim a million Russian army invasion if they all take weapons.. but will not mention the fact that they are Ukrainian citizens from Ukraine and always lived there not in Russia. Wink  Ukraine after all is a Russian land. So this is why is laughable all reports of Russian army invasion. with numbers of killed "soldiers". because is impossible to know that even if indeed people were killed..because death people dont talk. and unless you have access to Russian Army computer servers and can identify them.. Neither Russians citizens killed ,in ukraine proof anything ,it could be volunteers civilians or with experience in military..  im aware there are  few thousands volunteers of Russia and Europe
    but ONLY because Donetsk ministers was asked by journalist early in the conflict about that and he told it. he did not deny it. that volunteers from Russia and Europe were helping..

    but he also told that is true for Kiev.. there are chechens from Russia helping kiev forces and Polish ,american and lithuanians mercenaries volunteers helping kiev too. The only army fighting for donetsk are the Donetsk Army , which is composed of civilians from there, Ukrainian army defectors..Volunteers from Russia and European volunteers..

    The only Generals of Russia in Donetsk ,are from OSCE mission..they are there at the request of kiev . yet many see them in videos and claim "Russian invasion"..ignoring they were requested by Kiev ,France and Germany to be there.. unarmed ,as monitors of the minsk agreement to monitor if their backed side is following the cease of fire..



    Last edited by Vann7 on Wed May 13, 2015 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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