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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

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    Flagship Victory
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon May 18, 2015 6:54 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:I completely agree with you here.

    But like I sad: long game. You can do it fast, you can do it right but you can't do both.

    I would pick doing it right even though it takes time and is not clean and pretty.

    What's the end game? Ukraine will not collapse economically. Economy is nothing but a number in a digital computer these days. As for debt, Ukraine can simply default. I think Putin is not respecting people's lives. Signs off on Minsk 2 then does not care when putch massacres civilians using 152 mm artillery shells every single day. I don't think this is moral behaviour. How can Putin sleep at night knowing putch commits genocide under Minsk 2? If I were Putin, I wouldn't be able to sleep without having nightmares of all the people killed.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 18, 2015 7:12 pm

    Seems that Novorussians and Russians are not very good with pr and media reporting.

    Novorussian authorities can point out how Ukraine is breaking minsk agreements and do so by world news organizations. But they dont. Just a tiny blip in the coloumns.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  auslander on Mon May 18, 2015 7:13 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:I completely agree with you here.

    But like I sad: long game. You can do it fast, you can do it right but you can't do both.

    I would pick doing it right even though it takes time and is not clean and pretty.

    What's the end game? Ukraine will not collapse economically. Economy is nothing but a number in a digital computer these days. As for debt, Ukraine can simply default. I think Putin is not respecting people's lives. Signs off on Minsk 2 then does not care when putch massacres civilians using 152 mm artillery shells every single day. I don't think this is moral behaviour. How can Putin sleep at night knowing putch commits genocide under Minsk 2? If I were Putin, I wouldn't be able to sleep without having nightmares of all the people killed.

    OK, for the umpteenth time you've made your point of your feelings for Mr. Putin. Enough already, how about trying to contribute to the informations and discussions on this thread. I don't have the time of the moment to wade through your and a couple other repetitious posters to read yet more of what an idiot Mr. Putin, or for that matter Mr. Poroshenko, is.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon May 18, 2015 7:13 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:I completely agree with you here.

    But like I sad: long game. You can do it fast, you can do it right but you can't do both.

    I would pick doing it right even though it takes time and is not clean and pretty.

    What's the end game? Ukraine will not collapse economically. Economy is nothing but a number in a digital computer these days. As for debt, Ukraine can simply default. I think Putin is not respecting people's lives. Signs off on Minsk 2 then does not care when putch massacres civilians using 152 mm artillery shells every single day. I don't think this is moral behaviour. How can Putin sleep at night knowing putch commits genocide under Minsk 2? If I were Putin, I wouldn't be able to sleep without having nightmares of all the people killed.

    Stop panicking.

    Ukraine WILL collapse not just because Russia is "helping" them collapse but because Ukraine is doing 99% of work by themselves. They can linger on for a year or 2 or 3 but eventually their entire society will implode. More they delay it worse the consequences will be. And easier job for Ruskies later...

    In the meantime Russia isn't going anywhere while West got stuck with biggest money pit on the planet. Take a gander at EU. Do they look like something that can swim with Ukraine tied around their neck?

    Wait for idiots to do the work for you and then pick up the pieces with least amount of effort and expenses.

    And stop ranting about Putin already. Do you honestly think that he is only one making decisions in Russia?

    He is the one you get to see most. There are plenty of others who have major input in Russian policy, some of whom would not take kindly at all at being photographed or mentioned in public.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Vann7 on Mon May 18, 2015 7:15 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:I completely agree with you here.

    But like I sad: long game. You can do it fast, you can do it right but you can't do both.

    I would pick doing it right even though it takes time and is not clean and pretty.

    What's the end game? Ukraine will not collapse economically. Economy is nothing but a number in a digital computer these days. As for debt, Ukraine can simply default. I think Putin is not respecting people's lives. Signs off on Minsk 2 then does not care when putch massacres civilians using 152 mm artillery shells every single day. I don't think this is moral behaviour. How can Putin sleep at night knowing putch commits genocide under Minsk 2? If I were Putin, I wouldn't be able to sleep without having nightmares of all the people killed.

    Is better to try for peace as much as possible.. than to start a major war that will end in world war 3. with millions killed.  i dont think kiev will have the economy to continue with the war to the end of year.so they will have no chance to continue the war.. even if they want it.



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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  whir on Mon May 18, 2015 7:22 pm

    Sputnik wrote:Odessa Massacre Perpertrators May Walk Scot-Free After Parliament's Pardon
    POLITICS 17:13 18.05.2015(updated 17:55 18.05.2015)

    The participants of the Odessa massacre might make a final step towards walking free officially.

    IEV (Sputnik) — The bill pardoning those involved in violent clashes and subsequent deadly fire in Odessa on May 2, 2014 was submitted to the Ukrainian parliament Monday, the parliament's press service said.
    The text of the draft law has not yet been published, according to the statement.

    The initiator of the bill is Ukrainian lawmaker Alexei Goncharenko, who was briefly detained in Russia in March for alleged involvement in Odessa clashes. Continue reading.

    The Guardian wrote:Russia Today’s interview on immigrants detention centres in UK faces inquiry
    Monday 18 May 2015 11.54 BST

    Media watchdog has threatened RT with statutory sanctions after repeated breaches of broadcasting regulations on impartiality

    Russia Today is facing a new investigation by media regulator Ofcom over its coverage of detention centres for immigrants in the UK, the regulator’s sixth on-going inquiry into the Kremlin-backed news channel.

    The regulator, which threatened Russia Today, or RT, with statutory sanctions after repeated breaches of broadcasting regulations on impartiality last year, opened a new investigation over a broadcast on 27 March this year which included an interview about detention centres for immigrants into the UK.

    Ofcom said it was looking to establish if the item on the programme Sophie and Co, presented by Sophie Shevardnadze, was duly impartial following a complaint from a viewer.

    RT was called to a meeting with Ofcom last year after four separate reports, all broadcast in March last year and all dealing with the situation in Ukraine, were judged to have breached the code governing UK broadcasters. [url=]Continue reading.[/url]

    Obozrevatel via Google Translate wrote:Украина получит такую же помощь, как новые члены ЕС - Климкин
    Ukraine will receive the same assistance as the new EU members - Klimkin
    May 18, 2015, 17:30

    Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin argues that Brussels react positively to the vision of Kiev on what to create a deep and comprehensive free trade area with the EU, Ukraine should be given the same support as the new members of the European Union.

    Told Pavlo Klimkin, referring to a meeting with European Commissioner for Trade Cecilia Maelstrom, reports UNIAN .

    "We are now trying to explain clearly that the full implementation of the agreement we need tools that resemble in content the instruments that were used in the process of helping the new countries - EU members. The response was generally positive," - said the head of the Foreign Ministry. Continue reading.

    Hromadske.tv via Google Translate wrote:хметов зупинив роботу своїх супермаркетів і заправок на окупованій території
    Akhmetov stopped the work of the supermarkets and gas stations in the occupied territories
    Monday, May 18, 2015

    The company "Parallel" Rinat Akhmetov suspend the operation of the network of filling stations in Donetsk and other localities in Donetsk region, which is not controlled by Ukrainian authorities.

    This was reported in the press service of the company.

    "May 18, including suspend its work 32 filling complexes TM" Parallel "in Donetsk, Makiyivka, Dokuchaevsk, Zuhres, Shahtersk, Yenakiyevo, snow, and Telmanovo Torez. The decision on the termination of filling passed given the current situation: the company now sees able to supply fuel in these cities within current legislation or purchase it on the spot from suppliers registered in Ukraine ", - said in a statement.

    According to the director of "Parallels" Helena Hiliyenko company resume their complexes, just see the opportunity within the legal framework and considering the safety of staff.

    All employees promise to pay a compensation package that is twice the size of the statutory mandatory payments in such cases. Continue reading.

    Podrobnosti via Google Translate wrote:Порошенко обвинил Россию в терроре против крымских татар
    Poroshenko accused Russia of terror against the Crimean Tatars
    May 18, 2015 15:19 Author: Daniel Evtukhov

    In the context of the Russian occupation Crimean Tatar people again suffered from terror and oppression of the Moscow regime. This was stated by President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko.

    "The state is the aggressor carries blatant repression. Occur prosecution on trumped-up charges of thousands of activists and ordinary Crimean people", - said Poroshenko.

    According to him, under the conditions of an undeclared war Ukraine is trying to enforce the rights of all its citizens, including the Crimean Tatars.

    "In this difficult time for everyone, it is important to maintain the unity and determination, which are the key to our victory and future prosperity in the family of democratic European countries. All of us - a single Ukrainian nation," - the president said. Continue reading.

    NV via Google Translate wrote:В Харькове снесли бюсты еще двух советских деятелей, а у памятника Александру Невскому отобрали меч
    In Kharkov demolished two more busts of Soviet leaders, and at the monument to Alexander Nevsky seized the sword
    Today, 15:01



    On Monday night, May 18, in Kharkov, unknown activists demolished the busts Felix Dzerzhinsky and Ivan boiler, the Provincial Department of the Interior Ministry reported.

    According to the police, between 22:20 and 23:25 Sunday was knocked bust of Felix Dzerzhinsky, who was installed at the stadium Dinamo and Ivan boiler near DC Railway.

    In addition, social networks reported that the monument to Alexander Nevsky Street. Pavlov of the sword disappeared. The Interior Ministry of Ukraine in Kharkov region made it clear that the message about the damage the monument Nevsky came to the police on May 17 at 18:00 pm.


    This fact made in ERDR, qualified the incident as hooliganism. Who sets the police involved in the damage to the monument.

    Note, meanwhile users of social networks from Kharkov most negative perception of the demolition of Soviet activists idols. Continue reading.

    5 via Google Translate wrote:СБУ РОЗСЛІДУВАТИМЕ ДЕПОРТАЦІЮ КРИМСЬКИХ ТАТАР ЯК КРИМІНАЛЬНИЙ ЗЛОЧИН ПРОТИ ЛЮДЯНОСТІ
    SBU INVESTIGATE THE DEPORTATION OF CRIMEAN TATARS AS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY
    15:24 May 18, 2015 | occupation of Crimea

    Security Service of Ukraine intends to investigate the deportation of Crimean Tatars as a crime against humanity.

    Told the head of the Security Service Valentyn Nalyvaychenko.

    According to the head office soon resume the investigation team, which has studied this issue in 2009. Note the following statement SBU head did during the regular transfer of Majlis representatives copies of archival documents of the KGB, which recorded the persecution of Crimean Tatars.

    Note that this is the sixth batch of declassified documents which have become public knowledge and illustrate the crimes of the Soviet regime against the indigenous people of Crimea. Continue reading.

    Espreso TV via Google Translate wrote:Україна заборонила перевозити товари у Придністров’я
    Ukraine has banned carry goods in Transnistria
    MAY 18, 2015 17:23

    From May 18 through Ukraine banned the movement of excise goods across the border with unrecognized republic of Transdniestria

    Resolution of the Government of Ukraine to exclude items Kuchurgan and Platonic Odessa region from the list of those that can be moved through excise goods, effective May 18. Thus the authorities of the unrecognized Transnistria (PMR) deprived of the right to move these products through the land of the Moldovan-Ukrainian border, uncontrolled Chisinau.

    According to the customs of the region, restrictions will affect about 70 Transnistrian enterprises, which should see the routes of supply and import them via Moldova.

    "The restrictions will affect about 70 Transnistrian enterprises, which will see the supply routes. Losses budget from customs duties forgone in 2015 will exceed $ 20 million.", - Said the deputy head of the Customs Committee of the PMR Svetlana Klimenkova. Continue reading.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon May 18, 2015 7:26 pm

    Vann7 wrote:................................

    Is better to try for peace as much as possible.. than to start a major war that will end in world war 3. with millions killed.  i dont think kiev will have the economy to continue with the war to the end of year.so they will have no chance to continue the war.. even if they want it.


    There will be no WW3, especially not over meaningless sh*thole like Ukraine.

    Ukrainians might be egotistic and delusional enough to believe that they are worthy of WW3 but rest of the planet knows better...

    But I do agree with you that they will definitely do dumbest thing possible once they get desperate enough
    (which will be pretty soon).
    And they will suffer accordingly. sniper

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 18, 2015 7:30 pm

    Shouldnt Crimea authorities, tatars and the rest start open video of how their lives really are in Crimea, to finally put an end to Poroshenko's and NATO's BS about it?

    Maybe also call out Kiev on their thieft of money from Crimea for 20 years as well as the fact they blocked access to water and electricity?

    Man, there is a gold mine of information that can be used to finally shut those idiots in washington and kiev up. But no one is taking it.. sad.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  whir on Mon May 18, 2015 7:43 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Shouldnt Crimea authorities, tatars and the rest start open video of how their lives really are in Crimea, to finally put an end to Poroshenko's and NATO's BS about it?

    Maybe also call out Kiev on their thieft of money from Crimea for 20 years as well as the fact they blocked access to water and electricity?

    Man, there is a gold mine of information that can be used to finally shut those idiots in washington and kiev up. But no one is taking it.. sad.
    The narrative is stablished and nothing is going to change it, good tatars live in exile period.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 18, 2015 7:52 pm

    whir wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Shouldnt Crimea authorities, tatars and the rest start open video of how their lives really are in Crimea, to finally put an end to Poroshenko's and NATO's BS about it?

    Maybe also call out Kiev on their thieft of money from Crimea for 20 years as well as the fact they blocked access to water and electricity?

    Man, there is a gold mine of information that can be used to finally shut those idiots in washington and kiev up. But no one is taking it.. sad.
    The narrative is stablished and nothing is going to change it, good tatars live in exile period.

    Ah yeah, like that Tatar mufti paid by Poland to incite terrorism in Crimea? Lol

    But would be entertaining if a video with the day to day lives of Crimeans, tatar and not, how they live and not in fear like eastern Ukraine.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon May 18, 2015 7:53 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Seems that Novorussians and Russians are not very good with pr and media reporting.

    Novorussian authorities can point out how Ukraine is breaking minsk agreements and do so by world news organizations. But they dont. Just a tiny blip in the coloumns.

    Anyone know if NAF is using 120 mm, 122 mm, 152 mm artillery in response? Putch is exempt from Minsk 2, so should NAF. Appeasement won't work on fascists. It didn't work on Franco, and it sure didn't work on Mussolini and Hitler. Russia appeasing putch again?

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/russia-and-former-soviet-union/agence-france-presse-russia-drops-opposition-to-eu-ukraine-trade-deal-starting-2016-eu-388881.html

    I don't buy putch would collapse. I don't buy there will be another Maidan. Who's going to fund it? Maidan was not spontaneous. It was funded by CIA and carried out by Right Sector who shot and killed police officers. Besides, putch is the US's tool for hurting Russia. The US will make sure putch won't ever collpase.

    Not only is IMF sending trillions putch's way, yes IMF has authority to print as much as it wants, and with putch establishing major trade ties with the US, the EU, I think 5 years from now, Russia would still be under US and EU sanction for not giving Crimea to Ukraine, therefore Minsk 2 only helps putch and hurts Russia. The long game IMO will be extremely bad for Russia and very good for putch. This is why if I were Putin I would not play this Minsk 2 long game which not only hurts Russia economically but also results in dozens of Donbas people getting killed by putch every single day because putch is exempt from heavy weapons ban of Minsk 2.

    more BS from the US government

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/05/17/donetsk-ukraine-separatists-marauding-militias/27190647/

    Putin needs to understand, for Russia to survive, there is only 1 option, and that is arming NAF and have NAF fighting to take power in Kiev to restore democracy in Ukraine.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Mon May 18, 2015 8:18 pm

    Godric wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Godric wrote:Putin's biggest mistake was stopping at Crimea .. when the Odessa massacre happened the Red Army should have rolled all the way to Odessa Oblast and annexing the whole of South West Russia back from the Hahols Lenin should never have given sacred Russian land and Russian people to these Russian haters

    You are suggesting that Russia should start making same stupid mistakes Kiev has been making for over a year. This is a long war, one fought not only by arms but also by media, diplomacy and money.

    Casualties are unfortunate, but this is war and you can't sacrifice core strategic objectives just to soothe your conscience.  

    War is extremely dirty business, something a lot of posters here seem to forget, and loosing a war even so you could save or avenge lives of civilians would be disrespectful for the suffering of those civilians (most of whom are still technically Ukrainians since most of them still obediently accept Nazi rule).

    Victory will be best vengeance.    

    I have a massive problem when it comes to burning people alive and clubbing people to death after they jumped from the building to escape the flames and I also have a problem with the display of Nazi emblems like the WolfsAngel the emblem of the 2nd SS panzer Division Das Reich, SS runes (lightening bands) and Swastikas yet Obama and his hypocritical pals during the Normandy remembrance stated they had to be vigilant and fight fascism yet they back and helped these fascist pigs in Kyiv   to gain power who openly display Nazi emblems and label war criminals as national heroes it's akin to Austria declaring Hitler a national hero

    x2, Godric.


    Last edited by Cowboy's daughter on Mon May 18, 2015 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

    Flagship Victory
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon May 18, 2015 8:20 pm

    Who are these? CIA paid 5th column?

    http://www.interpretermag.com/russia-update-may-18-2015/#8399

    The article called Ukraine Presents Russian Sniper Rifle Taken From Captured Soldiers, Will Charge Them With 'Terrorism' below shows a 1980s VSS Vintorez rifle used by special forces. No definitive proof that the rifle is from Russia since Ukraine inherited such rifles from the USSR in 1991.

    http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-455-crimean-tatars-mark-71st-anniversary-of-stalins-deportation/


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Mon May 18, 2015 8:26 pm

    Gorlovka shelling, May 17 I believe.


    http://gorlovka.today/proisshestviya/1497-obstrel-avtozapravki-jazz-v-gorlovke-v-noch-na-17-maya

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon May 18, 2015 9:06 pm

    Update. Russian government says those 2 captured LPR fighter were Russian special forces but who had quit to defend the people of Donbas. I knew it. Putin speaks not a word even though putch shells Donbas every single day doing genocide. Russian people must, I repeat, must vote out Putin in 2018. Mironov, Zhirinovsky, anyone but Putin.

    VSS Vintorez is not inherited by Ukraine even though it is a late 1980s weapon.


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Mon May 18, 2015 9:26 pm; edited 3 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Neutrality on Mon May 18, 2015 9:08 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Update. Russian government says those 2 captured LPR fighter were Russian special forces but who had quit to defend the people of Donbas. I knew it, Putin has no heart to care for the people of Donbas. He does not say a word even though putch shells Donbas every single day doing genocide. Russian people must, I repeat, must vote out Putin in 2018. Mironov, Zhirinovsky, anyone other than Putin.

    VSS Vintorez is not inherited by Ukraine even though it is a late 1980s weapon.

    Can you stop posting lies for a second? The MOD said the men did have military service (like 99% of all Russian males do). They didn't say they were ex. Special Forces.

    Also, can we have some mods in here? Really getting tired to have to filther through garbage in order to read solid information.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 18, 2015 9:12 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Update. Russian government says those 2 captured LPR fighter were Russian special forces but who had quit to defend the people of Donbas. I knew it, Putin has no heart to care for the people of Donbas. He does not say a word even though putch shells Donbas every single day doing genocide. Russian people must, I repeat, must vote out Putin in 2018. Mironov, Zhirinovsky, anyone other than Putin.

    VSS Vintorez is not inherited by Ukraine even though it is a late 1980s weapon.

    Can you point out to me where you heard they are ex special forces? according to tass, they are ex service men. I may be wrong but I believe they do have vss vintorez. I have seen pics from years ago though.

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/795414

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  franco on Mon May 18, 2015 9:28 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Update. Russian government says those 2 captured LPR fighter were Russian special forces but who had quit to defend the people of Donbas. I knew it, Putin has no heart to care for the people of Donbas. He does not say a word even though putch shells Donbas every single day doing genocide. Russian people must, I repeat, must vote out Putin in 2018. Mironov, Zhirinovsky, anyone other than Putin.

    VSS Vintorez is not inherited by Ukraine even though it is a late 1980s weapon.

    Can you point out to me where you heard they are ex special forces? according to tass, they are ex service men. I may be wrong but I believe they do have vss vintorez. I have seen pics from years ago though.

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/795414

    The reaction of the Russian Defense Ministry on the capture of "commandos" under the Happiness

    twower
    May 18, 21:32

    The Russian Defense Ministry demanded from Kiev to stop torture and to release former soldiers detained SBU.
    "Captured the SBU in the Luhansk region citizens of Russia Alexander Alexandrov and Yevgeni Yerofeyev at the time of his arrest on May 17 of this year is not an active member of the armed forces of the Russian Federation", - said the " Interfax "the official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Major-General Igor Konashenkov.
    . "We checked the information of the Ukrainian side - these guys really previously served in one of the compounds of the Armed Forces and have military training. Moreover, I can confirm that we were approached by the leadership of the Association of veterans of special forces with the request to go through official channels to the General Staff of Ukraine to halt the abuse of their wounded comrades on the part of the SBU in the knockout favorable testimony "- said I.Konashenkov.
    The interlocutor of the agency said that during the civil war in the south-east of Ukraine in the Russian Federation "was repeatedly detained dozens or even hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers and fighters of so-called" territorial "battalions." "And the attitude towards them is fully in line with international standards and provide necessary assistance when they are all in a short time freely to return to their families and relatives," - said I.Konashenkov.
    "We count on the wisdom of the Ukrainian leadership and the imminent release of Alexander Alexandrov Yevgeny Yerofeyev," - said the spokesman of the Defense Ministry.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon May 18, 2015 9:33 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Update. Russian government says those 2 captured LPR fighter were Russian special forces but who had quit to defend the people of Donbas. I knew it, Putin has no heart to care for the people of Donbas. He does not say a word even though putch shells Donbas every single day doing genocide. Russian people must, I repeat, must vote out Putin in 2018. Mironov, Zhirinovsky, anyone other than Putin.

    VSS Vintorez is not inherited by Ukraine even though it is a late 1980s weapon.

    Can you stop posting lies for a second? The MOD said the men did have military service (like 99% of all Russian males do). They didn't say they were ex. Special Forces.

    Also, can we have some mods in here? Really getting tired to have to filther through garbage in order to read solid information.

    VSS Vintorez is issued to spetnaz special forces, GRU. You can't buy it as a civilian. Regular troops are not issued VSS Vintorez. Only special forces are issued such rifles.These two are definitely ex spetnasz, GRU. This gun Ukraine does not have. MOD says these two were ex GRU special forces and demand them back. Interesting how the story will go. As I said before, I say again, Putin needs to understand, no long game will be of any good to Russia, sanction on Russia will end only if Putin arms NAF and have NAF fight to Kiev and restore democracy in Ukraine, there is no any other way.

    franco wrote:The Russian Defense Ministry demanded from Kiev to stop torture and to release former soldiers detained SBU.
       "Captured the SBU in the Luhansk region citizens of Russia Alexander Alexandrov and Yevgeni Yerofeyev at the time of his arrest on May 17 of this year is not an active member of the armed forces of the Russian Federation", - said the " Interfax "the official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Major-General Igor Konashenkov.
       . "We checked the information of the Ukrainian side - these guys really previously served in one of the compounds of the Armed Forces and have military training. Moreover, I can confirm that we were approached by the leadership of the Association of veterans of special forces with the request to go through official channels to the General Staff of Ukraine to halt the abuse of their wounded comrades on the part of the SBU in the knockout favorable testimony "- said I.Konashenkov.
       The interlocutor of the agency said that during the civil war in the south-east of Ukraine in the Russian Federation "was repeatedly detained dozens or even hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers and fighters of so-called" territorial "battalions." "And the attitude towards them is fully in line with international standards and provide necessary assistance when they are all in a short time freely to return to their families and relatives," - said I.Konashenkov.
       "We count on the wisdom of the Ukrainian leadership and the imminent release of Alexander Alexandrov Yevgeny Yerofeyev," - said the spokesman of the Defense Ministry.

    I can't believe captured NG Maidanists were returned to their families after a short period of care. This is crazy insane stuff. Shocked These NG guys butchered civilians for sheer joy and they were released after care. OML Shocked No, don't count on Maidanists release these two. Maidanists are the most sadistic folks on the planet. You treat them well, they would kill you. Look what happened to Yanukovych who almost got killed.


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Mon May 18, 2015 9:42 pm; edited 4 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Neutrality on Mon May 18, 2015 9:35 pm

    Thanks for that franco. Well now at least the Putin haters can't say that the MOD isn't doing anything Laughing

    I wonder how they got caught though.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 18, 2015 9:42 pm

    Hmm, they got caught too easily if they are ex gru. Standards dropped?

    Anyway, hopefully they are returned. They will probably ask for their pilot back.

    Russian spec ops opperated very well in Georgia. Now it doesnt confirm if these guys are actually ex GRU byt the associates from special forces veterans asking for them back is good indication.

    Wonder if they will get them back or use them as a continuous media parade.


    Last edited by sepheronx on Mon May 18, 2015 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  whir on Mon May 18, 2015 9:44 pm

    TASS wrote:Russia's foreign minister: US supports Minsk agreements but interprets them its own way
    World May 18, 18:52 UTC+3

    The two sides had different understanding of concrete provisions of the Minsk document of February 12 and in concrete tasks facing the working [sub]groups that were set up in Minsk on May 6

    MOSCOW, May 18. /TASS/. The United States fully supports the implementation of the Minsk agreements on Ukraine but seeks to interpret them its own way, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said in an interview with the Rossiiskaya Gazeta daily posted on its website on Monday.

    "The essence of our conversation [with US Secretary of State John Kerry in Sochi on May 12] was to find some common denominators," the minister said. "I’d say it did not take long to do that because both Russia and the United States support full and comprehensive implementation of the Minsk agreements. But, as it often happens, the devil is in the detail - in the concrete provisions of the Minsk document of February 12, in concrete tasks facing the working [sub]groups that were set up in Minsk on May 6. And here, we had different understanding of concrete tasks."

    "Having spent so much time and effort of the four countries’ numbers one in Minsk on February 12, we proceeded from the necessity of strict following the sequence of actions that was committed to paper in the Minsk package of measures on the implementation of settlement tasks," Lavrov stressed. "Actually, not merely the sequence but also the essence of corresponding agreements."

    The Americans, according to the Russian foreign minister, have "somewhat different interpretation of those documents, although these documents are absolutely unambiguous about the right things agreed with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, agreed with his representatives in the Contact Group."

    "As a matter of fact, there is nothing to debate about," Lavrov underscored. Continue reading.

    The Guardian wrote:Two Russian soldiers captured near rebel-controlled Luhansk, says Ukraine
    Monday 18 May 2015 01.34 BST

    Ukrainian MP posts video purporting to show a Russian special forces sergeant lying in a hospital bed admitting to operating in the area

    Two Russian soldiers captured while fighting in war-torn eastern Ukraine are being transported to the capital, Kiev, a Ukrainian military spokesman has said.

    The Russians were wounded and taken prisoner near the frontline town of Shchastia in the Luhansk region on Sunday, Ukrainian officials reported.

    Russia-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine have been fighting government troops for a year, and Moscow has vehemently denied it is supplying them either with weaponry or troops. When several Russian soldiers were captured on Ukrainian territory last summer, the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, said they had simply got lost.

    Asked about the new reports on Monday, Putin’s spokesman again denied any Russian involvement. “We have said repeatedly that there are no Russian troops in Donbass,” Dmitry Peskov said, referring to eastern Ukraine.

    The separatist mouthpiece Luhansk Information Center said on Sunday the men identified by Ukraine as Russian officers were in fact two policemen from Luhansk who had been taken prisoner near Shchastia.

    Vladislav Seleznev, spokesman for the Ukrainian general staff, said on Monday the two men were being questioned by the Ukrainian security service and were on their way to Kiev where they would face the media. Continue reading.

    USA Today wrote:Donetsk has become eastern Ukraine's lawless city
    Sheren Khalel and Matthew Vickery, Special for USA TODAY 10:24 a.m. EDT May 18, 2015

    DONETSK, Ukraine — This once-booming industrial city of 1 million is now largely a lawless and lifeless center of eastern Ukraine's separatist movement, where residents live under constant threat from marauding militias.

    Although pro-Russian separatists and the Ukrainian armed forces agreed to a cease-fire last February, the sounds of artillery fire and shelling have never ceased to echo through the war-torn city. The fighting has slowed, but not stopped.

    For the past year, Russian-backed separatists have controlled the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DNR). Most stores have shut down, and only a few restaurants remain open, filled mainly with young separatist militia fighters in dark green fatigues who rampage through the city as if it were their own playground, civilian residents say. Continue reading.

    The New York Times wrote:In Ukraine, Corruption Concerns Linger a Year After a Revolution
    By DAVID M. HERSZENHORNMAY 17, 2015

    KIEV, Ukraine — The country is on the cliff of bankruptcy. A spate of politically motivated killings and mysterious suicides of former government officials has sown fear in the capital. Infighting has begun to splinter the pro-European majority coalition in Parliament. And a constant threat of war lingers along the Russian border.

    A year after the election of Petro O. Poroshenko as president to replace the ousted Viktor F. Yanukovych, and six months after the swearing in of a new legislature, Ukraine remains deeply mired in political and economic chaos.

    “Poroshenko, whether you like him or not, he’s not delivering,” said Bruce P. Jackson, the president of the Project on Transitional Democracies, an American nonprofit group. “The Ukrainian government is so weak and fragile that it is too weak to do the necessary things to build a unified and independent state.”

    Efforts to forge a political settlement between the government in Kiev and Russian-backed separatists who control much of the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk have hit a deadlock over procedural disputes, despite a cease-fire in February calling for decentralization of power and greater local autonomy as the linchpins of a long-term accord. Continue reading.

    Леонид Маслов wrote:Beetle soldier captured Russian tourists

    Flagship Victory
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon May 18, 2015 9:45 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Hmm, they got caught too easily if they are ex gru. Standards dropped?

    Anyway, hopefully they are returned. They will probably ask for their pilot back. At that point, why not.

    Not very good for Russias sake or reputation of their special forces.

    If they were volunteers, they lacked coordination with other GRU folks. Special forces work as a team, equipped with night vision devices. Since these two volunteered, they lacked the necessary equipment and team work. That's my take on how they were so easily caught.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 18, 2015 9:48 pm

    That USA today article is shit. Why bother posting it? They dont even have Western media in donetsk.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

    Post  Flagship Victory on Mon May 18, 2015 9:49 pm

    sepheronx wrote:That USA today article is shit. Why bother posting it? They dont even have Western media in donetsk.

    I think this whir guy is known as Hindustani78 on pakistani defense forum who is actually a Lithuanian trool who posts all these full length articles taking up space he extremely hates Russia. Just my TWO cents. Wink

    Back on the two captured ex special forces. I hope they won't get summarily executed. Putch did say they are charged with terrorism. See what happens? Russia released all captured NG killers after treating their wounds and now putch does this to captured Russians. This tells Putin exactly what NOT to do. Sigh. Mironov has visted DPR. Putin has never done so. Vote Mironov or Zhirinovsky. Vote out Putin. 2018 yes we can!

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/mashable-ukraine-to-prosecute-captured-russian-soldiers-for-terrorist-acts-388883.html

    At the end of the day, I think, Putin should pay more respect to people's lives. He should not allow putch to use heavy artillery to massacre civilians of Donbas on a daily basis, even if it means bringing more money to Russia's economy. After all, money is made by man, lives are made by God.

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