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    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat May 02, 2015 6:38 pm

    Austin wrote:Any reason why so much of black smoke from Armata chasis when they increase speed ?


    Is that what you call 'black smoke'? Looks whitish-grey to me, and the T-90 is a bigger black smoke belcher, and it doesn't stop it from preforming it's vital tasks.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Zivo on Sat May 02, 2015 6:45 pm

    From Otvaga:



    kvs
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  kvs on Sat May 02, 2015 7:55 pm

    Austin wrote:Any reason why so much of black smoke from Armata chasis when they increase speed ?



    This is routine exhaust aerosol for large diesels. You can see this regularly with tractor-trailers and other
    heavy diesel engine machines. Your typical VW TDI has all sorts of filters (including urea) to make them
    environmentally friendly.

    Diesels are more efficient than gasoline engines, but as they use heavier grade fuel cracked from crude oil
    they produce more exhaust aerosols including soot. Gasoline engines burn cleaner in terms of soot but
    release more carbon monoxide.

    I can't believe anyone is asking this question. I have seen this all my life and it's not like I lived it on a
    construction site.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  kvs on Sat May 02, 2015 7:57 pm

    Zivo wrote:From Otvaga:



    Now I am confused about the size of the gun. It looks longer and with a greater diameter. Is it 125 mm or 152 mm?

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat May 02, 2015 8:03 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Zivo wrote:From Otvaga:



    Now I am confused about the size of the gun.   It looks longer and with a greater diameter.   Is it 125 mm or 152 mm?

    Still 125 mm, but likely the barrel and autoloader are longer to allow longer APFSDS rounds.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat May 02, 2015 8:10 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Zivo wrote:From Otvaga:



    Now I am confused about the size of the gun.   It looks longer and with a greater diameter.   Is it 125 mm or 152 mm?

    Well. 2A82 is indeed longer than 2A46.



    Though yes, arrangement and that tarp around that barrel making it looks even larger.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sat May 02, 2015 8:11 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Zivo wrote:From Otvaga:



    Now I am confused about the size of the gun.   It looks longer and with a greater diameter.   Is it 125 mm or 152 mm?

    152 mm at 52 calibres = 7.9m
    125 mm at 52 calibres = 6.5m

    So either a 152/48 cal or something else...it clearly isn't a 52 cal 152mm

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  kvs on Sat May 02, 2015 8:17 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Zivo wrote:From Otvaga:



    Now I am confused about the size of the gun.   It looks longer and with a greater diameter.   Is it 125 mm or 152 mm?

    Well. 2A82 is indeed longer than 2A46.



    Though yes, arrangement and that tarp around that barrel making it looks even larger.


    Looks like the T-14 gun is placed farther forward than in the T-90 based on these two sets of
    pictures. The diameter still looks too large even accounting for the tarp. Probably the red
    overlay is too small.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sat May 02, 2015 8:27 pm

    Actually given how tight the T90 turret is, I find the T-14 turret quite big (even with the tarp and superstructure). It is looking more and more like very ambitious project in the making.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Zivo on Sun May 03, 2015 4:52 am

    I pulled some images from otvaga, showing the left side of the turret which for some odd reason isn't photographed often.











    Something I've noticed from these images is that bump which I suspect is the directional smoke launcher can rotate 360 degrees.





    Notice in this image the smoke launcher is actually pointed over the roof of the turret, towards the building with the black and gold sign.



    Here's some more shots of the T-15's backside.





    Another shot of what I suspect is a radar element of the APS.


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  alexZam on Sun May 03, 2015 4:57 am

    Zivo wrote:I pulled some images from otvaga, showing the left side of the turret which for some odd reason isn't photographed often.

    Something I've noticed from these images is that bump which I suspect is the directional smoke launcher can rotate 360 degrees.

    Notice in this image the smoke launcher is actually pointed over the roof of the turret, towards the building with the black and gold sign.

    Another shot of what I suspect is a radar element of the APS.

    Interesting. Good observations. However, I'm keeping my cool till they finally remove those tarps.
    Dang, waiting is killing me. Wink

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Zivo on Sun May 03, 2015 5:37 am

    Here's the one image that actually shows the launcher for those who haven't been following. Each unit has 12 grenades, so 24 total between the two launchers.



    The smoke obscuration system on these vehicles is really elaborate. Imaging infrared seekers are going to have a tough time with armata as the launcher can accurately and efficiently put a cloud between the missile and armata. Since radar is involved, passive lock-on offers no advantage against these countermeasures. Russian tank design has always put strong emphasis on multi-layer defense, this philosophy has been carried over to the new generation of vehicles.

    Given that this thing can be aimed, it could actually be effectively used as a instant-response close range anti-personnel weapon if loaded with fragmentation grenades, just in case someone tries to run up and gank your tank with C4. Wink

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Werewolf on Sun May 03, 2015 5:52 am

    Given that this thing can be aimed, it could actually be effectively used as a instant-response close range anti-personnel weapon if loaded with fragmentation grenades, just in case someone tries to run up and gank your tank with C4.

    Battlefield Whitephosphorous^^

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun May 03, 2015 6:01 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Given that this thing can be aimed, it could actually be effectively used as a instant-response close range anti-personnel weapon if loaded with fragmentation grenades, just in case someone tries to run up and gank your tank with C4.

    Battlefield Whitephosphorous^^

    They may just find a vehicle, strap 4 C-4's on the hood, drive at full speed towards the tank and jump out at the last second, and detonate... lol1

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Zivo on Sun May 03, 2015 6:10 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Given that this thing can be aimed, it could actually be effectively used as a instant-response close range anti-personnel weapon if loaded with fragmentation grenades, just in case someone tries to run up and gank your tank with C4.

    Battlefield Whitephosphorous^^

    They may just find a vehicle, strap 4 C-4's on the hood, drive at full speed towards the tank and jump out at the last second, and detonate... lol1

    That's why the T-14 has an auxiliary 2A42. thumbsup

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun May 03, 2015 6:15 am

    Zivo wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Given that this thing can be aimed, it could actually be effectively used as a instant-response close range anti-personnel weapon if loaded with fragmentation grenades, just in case someone tries to run up and gank your tank with C4.

    Battlefield Whitephosphorous^^

    They may just find a vehicle, strap 4 C-4's on the hood, drive at full speed towards the tank and jump out at the last second, and detonate... lol1

    That's why the T-14 has an auxiliary 2A42. thumbsup
    or aux. 57mm GL. that sh!t would rekt anything not under IFV level armor(or medium class i think.)

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Zivo on Sun May 03, 2015 6:31 am

    or aux. 57mm GL. that sh!t would rekt anything not under IFV level armor(or medium class i think.)

    It could have a 57mm mortar, there's plenty of room in the bustle for the magazine, I don't think it will though. If it jams, some one will have to climb up on the turret to unjam it. Automatic mortars have reliability issues as the rounds are mechanically hard to handle.

    In contrast, the 2A42 is very reliable and in the case of a misfire, the gun can be autonomously cycled with a small charge.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  chicken on Sun May 03, 2015 8:19 am

    Zivo wrote:Here's the one image that actually shows the launcher for those who haven't been following. Each unit has 12 grenades, so 24 total between the two launchers.



    The smoke obscuration system on these vehicles is really elaborate. Imaging infrared seekers are going to have a tough time with armata as the launcher can accurately and efficiently put a cloud between the missile and armata. Since radar is involved, passive lock-on offers no advantage against these countermeasures. Russian tank design has always put strong emphasis on multi-layer defense, this philosophy has been carried over to the new generation of vehicles.

    Given that this thing can be aimed, it could actually be effectively used as a instant-response close range anti-personnel weapon if loaded with fragmentation grenades, just in case someone tries to run up and gank your tank with C4. Wink

    Any chance they can use the beak to ram a building? Plus fire frags on both sides with a sweeping motion. And why not add RPO-A on the turret for extra CQC.

    Also, if they follow the model from before, should this line be the grenade launcher?

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Mike E on Sun May 03, 2015 9:40 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:They may just find a vehicle, strap 4 C-4's on the hood, drive at full speed towards the tank and jump out at the last second, and detonate... lol1
    Eh... That was my life in battlefield.  Laughing  

    Too bad server owners began to crack down on it. 

    Off Topic On my part.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 03, 2015 11:04 am

    I would suspect those box launchers are just part of Shtora-2 and that TR-1s information about an APS system that is reloadable and able to aim suggests these box launchers aren't it.

    The 57mm grenade launcher has a 4-5 round box magazine so if they are using it on this vehicle they would need to have converted it to belt feed at the very least.

    Even if a round fails to fire there should be a way of removing the dud round to fire again... with the 30mm cannon they have a squib cartridge that fires into the side of the cartridge case in the breach so if the primer fails to fire the round the squib will blow a hole into the side of the shell case and ignite the propellent to fire the round and start the firing process again without needing to be manually cocked to remove the dud round. I suspect the same option is available for the 57mm grenade launcher and the 125mm gun. the alternative is to cycle the weapon which is incredibly dangerous in the case of a hang fire.

    With a normal rifle with old or dodgy ammo sometimes you pull the trigger and just hear a click but no bang... what do you do? With a Mosin Nagant rifle you can pull back the cocking piece on the bolt with the bolt closed and try again. With an AK you have to eject the round by pulling back the cocking handle. It is much safer to keep the bolt closed and try to fire again because you might have a hang fire where the primer has been hit but the propellent has gotten wet and might be smoldering and any sharp jarring movement like cycling the round from the rifle might make it go bang... without a chamber around it to help pressure build up it would be pretty harmless, but a 57mm grenade round or a 125mm cannon round or even a 30mm cannon round is not so harmless... their HE payloads should not explode because of safeties... but you never know...


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Zivo on Sun May 03, 2015 9:18 pm

    chicken wrote:

    Also, if they follow the model from before, should this line be the grenade launcher?

    A lot of people think the auxiliary weapon is placed in the same as the 2A42 was placed on Objekt 195:



    The protrusion you highlighted is actually symmetrical, there's an identical protrusion on the other side. This leads me to believe that it's either part of the wood frame, part of the APS, or some sort of sheet metal plating like what the T-90SM has.

    There is another possibility, it could be auxiliary weapon mounts, minus the guns themselves. This has been overlooked, because without the guns it's not obvious. But if you look at the other vehicles, the Kurganets BTR variant doesn't have the gun fitted to the RWS yet.

    Anyways. The red line on the bustle and circle on the mast indicate the limiting points, we know those are boundaries. The green line indicates the peak of the smoke launcher The blue line is roughly were the 2A42 may be located if it's mounted similarly to Obj. 195's 2A42.


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Dima on Sun May 03, 2015 10:19 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Zivo wrote:From Otvaga:



    Now I am confused about the size of the gun.   It looks longer and with a greater diameter.   Is it 125 mm or 152 mm?
    The gun could be longer.
    Btw, I think that comparison is not accurate. See the tracks on road and you might notice there is some difference between distance of Armata and T-90 from the camera.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  kvs on Sun May 03, 2015 10:26 pm

    Dima wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Zivo wrote:From Otvaga:



    Now I am confused about the size of the gun.   It looks longer and with a greater diameter.   Is it 125 mm or 152 mm?
    The gun could be longer.
    Btw, I think that comparison is not accurate. See the tracks on road and you might notice there is some difference between distance of Armata and T-90 from the camera.

    That was my conclusion too, the red overlay is too small.


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  Vann7 on Sun May 03, 2015 10:58 pm


    armata is not only taller and larger but also much wider tank.. the comparisons are actually good.. T-14 is like 30% bigger than T-90.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #3

    Post  alexZam on Mon May 04, 2015 12:50 am

    On a humorous note:

    Dropped, painted in politically correct color, and don't forget to check out da rims, yo.  unshaven



    Last edited by alexZam on Mon May 04, 2015 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total

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