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    Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

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    jhelb
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    Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  jhelb on Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:50 am

    Regardless of the martial art, we always see people in the movies using super bad ass moves and beating multiple opponents often with one hit for each guy...is that even possible? If yes, is a black belt needed ?

    If you are faced with a situation where you have to fight multiple opponents what technique will you use.....Sambo, Systema, Krav Maga, CKM, Keysi Fighting Method, and Jeet Kune Do?

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  Regular on Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:15 am

    One hit someone? Possible. Do bad ass moves, leave bad ass openings and get Yourself knocked out cold.
    Black belt doesn't mean a shit.

    Multiple opponents leave You in very bad disadvantage no matter what style do You fight. Sambo would be good against one on one when fight gets on the ground. Against multiple opponents You would receive leg shower and would end up with cracked skull.
    Against multiple opponents You want to stay upright as much as possible as as long as possible. The more tired Your opponents are the less beating You will get after You go down. Going down means death. Broken ribs, perforated lungs, liver and kidney injuries, suffocation on Your own bodily fluids. Hell even if You leave someone knocked out face down they can die.
    I would say forget about shit like Krav manga, if You have shins made out steel You can try muay thai too, but I would suggest to go for basics like boxing, kick boxing.

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  Firebird on Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:49 am

    jhelb wrote:Regardless of the martial art, we always see people in the movies using super bad ass moves and beating multiple opponents often with one hit for each guy...is that even possible? If yes, is a black belt needed ?

    If you are faced with a situation where you have to fight multiple opponents what technique will you use.....Sambo, Systema, Krav Maga, CKM, Keysi Fighting Method, and Jeet Kune Do?

    Depends on your build, your capabilities and your opponents.

    In the words of Bruce Lee, all a black belt does is hold up your trousers. Some people pick up effective martial arts quickly. Others are black belts but only in the sports ie not combat sense.

    It is possible with one strike per opponent, and for small people as well as powerful. Much depends on where and how you hit.
    Many martial artists are chronically underpowered OR lack the movement necessary to find/make an opening.

    Ultimately, good martial artists find their own style within what they are learning. Altho certain styles may be unsuitable to them.

    So in practice, a proficient expert level Krav Maga OR kung fu person wouldn't look THAT different in approach. If they had trained intelligently and devised what works for them.

    A key is to remove the specific weaknesses of each art. For instance boxers are unprepared for kicks and grabs. Tae Kwon Do exponents are often over obsessed with kicks and sometimes lack power etc

    I learned Karate, then Tae Kwon Do, then internal Kung Fu. So I'm TKD for the basic movement and kicks. And Kung Fu for the punches and power generation.

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  cheesfactory on Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:31 am

    jhelb wrote:
    If you are faced with a situation where you have to fight multiple opponents what technique will you use.....Sambo, Systema, Krav Maga, CKM, Keysi Fighting Method, and Jeet Kune Do?

    In such situation, use massiv pepper spray. Its one of the best solution. Carry pepper spray with you...


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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:12 am

    jhelb wrote:Regardless of the martial art, we always see people in the movies using super bad ass moves and beating multiple opponents often with one hit for each guy...is that even possible? If yes, is a black belt needed ?

    If you are faced with a situation where you have to fight multiple opponents what technique will you use.....Sambo, Systema, Krav Maga, CKM, Keysi Fighting Method, and Jeet Kune Do?

    Something long and hard and drash their eagerness for a fight out off them, reality is not like movies and most people are not masters even when they practice MA alot to deal with many opponents at the same time.

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  jhelb on Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:47 am

    Firebird wrote:

    In the words of Bruce Lee, all a black belt does is hold up your trousers. Some people pick up effective martial arts quickly. Others are black belts but only in the sports ie not combat sense.

    Firebird wrote:I learned Karate, then Tae Kwon Do, then internal Kung Fu. So I'm TKD for the basic movement and kicks. And Kung Fu for the punches and power generation.

    Firebird, this is great insight. Meaning simply having a black belt is just not enough. So in your experience and given the fact that you have an impressive array of Martial Art skills do you think that the average Joes, who do not have your skills can fend off an attack from multiple opponents? What do they need to do? Say someone with my physical background...... I am short just about 5'8'' and weigh around 75 kilos.

    Werewolf wrote:reality is not like movies and most people are not masters even when they practice MA alot to deal with many opponents at the same time.

    Yeah I used the movie part just to highlight the scenario. So what you are saying is that in reality it is not possible for an individual to successfully fend off an attack carried out by multiple opponents?

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:58 am

    Yeah I used the movie part just to highlight the scenario. So what you are saying is that in reality it is not possible for an individual to successfully fend off an attack carried out by multiple opponents?

    No, i just say that reality is different from movies, most people are not Jackie Chan that can fight 50 opponents and still win. In reality most people don't have life long fighting or combat experience and martial arts only helps when you actually know how to apply it. My suggestion is when you find yourself in a situation one vs many than take any advantage you can, take a stick and smack the shit out off them, it is justified, because hand to hand combat against many isn't easy and i speak from experience it is much easier to fight against many with a stick in your hand than just with your fists.

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:32 pm

    I always used to laugh at Wesley Snipes in the Blade movies... he had a silver coated sword that would kill instantly but when faced with an enemy would always break a few arms and legs before killing them with one stab.

    Hollywood is about theatre and so sometimes one punch will take an enemy down for good and other times repeated hits just seem to make the hero stronger... like in those awful Rocky movies.

    As the romans found a slash of a sword will eventually kill if you do it enough and they bleed out but often a stab of a few centimetres that reaches a vital organ like the heart or spine can kill or immobilise in one hit.

    Even a small stabbing stiletto knife can turn a one strike into a kill... but your enemies still need to cooperate and come at you one at a time.

    even if they do cooperate you are going to get tired and it just takes one to get past you and inflict a wound and eventually you will be defeated.

    the one against many is hollywood and computer games... very few special forces around the world operate in single agents except secret agents and when they get to fighting they have already failed.


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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  Regular on Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:09 pm

    cheesfactory wrote:


    In such situation, use massiv pepper spray. Its one of the best solution. Carry pepper spray with you...


    Massiv? What is it?
    Yeah good luck spraying multiple guys. You know that You are affected by spray too if they get close? All of them form a cloud. Even direct spray ones.
    All my towels at home were burning faces just because back blast is a thing when using in the open.
    For drunk people it doesn't work the same as they are usually number The Burn comes later.

    My top ones would be Mk3 or Mk4 yellow(18% cap!!!). Mk3 foam is awesome in a way that sticks to the person better and it works on eyes better.
    Walther Pro Secur would be my other choice


    Still those sprays are more effective when used by attackers themselves Wink And don't forget to have this with You
    [/URL]

    If somehow You manage to spray couple guys and then You can successfully use them to beat those human pinyanas to the pulp

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:34 pm

    Regular wrote:
    cheesfactory wrote:


    In such situation, use massiv pepper spray. Its one of the best solution. Carry pepper spray with you...


    Massiv? What is it?
    Yeah good luck spraying multiple guys. You know that You are affected by spray too if they get close? All of them form a cloud. Even direct spray ones.
    All my towels at home were burning faces just because back blast is a thing when using in the open.
    For drunk people it doesn't work the same as they are usually number The Burn comes later.

    My top ones would be Mk3 or Mk4 yellow(18% cap!!!). Mk3 foam is awesome in a way that sticks to the person better and it works on eyes better.
    Walther Pro Secur would be my other choice


    Still those sprays are more effective when used by attackers themselves Wink And don't forget to have this with You
    [/URL]

    If somehow You manage to spray couple guys and then You can successfully use them to beat those human pinyanas to the pulp

    ASP's and Tele-bâtons are forbidden in MANY Euro countries.

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  Regular on Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:29 pm

    IKR, in UK You can't even defend Yourself. For self defense in my old country I used to carry a knife and Baikal gas pistol with drilled barrel to shot shrapnel and it was illegal to. But I used to sell cars and it was needed.
    You don't think about legal issues when You are attacked. If police questions You all You have to say that You overpowered attacker and took his weapon. Simple.

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:38 pm

    Regular wrote:IKR, in UK You can't even defend Yourself. For self defense in my old country I used to carry a knife and Baikal gas pistol with drilled barrel to shot shrapnel and it was illegal to. But I used to sell cars and it was needed.
    You don't think about legal issues when You are attacked. If police questions You all You have to say that You overpowered attacker and took his weapon. Simple.

    I agree, problem is that legal is my line of work so i tend to always tell people to think twice about any gung ho initiative.

    There are a lot of alternatives though. From garden tools to "swiss" knives. In Albania I've been running around with a hammer wrapped into a newspaper (God Bless Communist era papers) for about half a year before moving out.

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  Firebird on Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:43 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    Firebird wrote:

    In the words of Bruce Lee, all a black belt does is hold up your trousers. Some people pick up effective martial arts quickly. Others are black belts but only in the sports ie not combat sense.

    Firebird wrote:I learned Karate, then Tae Kwon Do, then internal Kung Fu. So I'm TKD for the basic movement and kicks. And Kung Fu for the punches and power generation.

    Firebird, this is great insight. Meaning simply having a black belt is just not enough. So in your experience and given the fact that you have an impressive array of Martial Art skills do you think that the average Joes, who do not have your skills can fend off an attack from multiple opponents?  What do they need to do?  Say someone with my physical background...... I am short just about 5'8'' and weigh around 75 kilos.  

    Werewolf wrote:reality is not like movies and most people are not masters even when they practice MA alot to deal with many opponents at the same time.

    Yeah I used the movie part just to highlight the scenario. So what you are saying is that in reality it is not possible for an individual to successfully fend off an attack carried out by multiple opponents?

    1stly it depends what sort of situation do you want to prepare for. Are you planning to be a nightclub bouncer? Or just protect your shop from a gang robbing you? Perhaps just want to be safe on a night out, or walking thro a wild part of town.

    Then there's the issue of your own outlook. I mean, will you love martial arts and really commit to them. Or do you just want to improve your fitness a bit? Or is it just a means to an end?

    The easy answer for a lot of situations is as Regular says, to just have a weapon. But that could get you locked up if you go about it the wrong way. One option is carrying an implement that could be *used* as a weapon, but not run you foul of the law.

    As for martial arts, well that takes time and smart focus to achieve. Real top level unarmed combat teaching isn't given away quickly by most instructors.

    Deciding which system. Well you could simply go bodybuilding and bulk up quickly which would likely frighten off opportunist nuts. But if you want REAL fight skills I'd say kung fu is the elite system, but that can take years. Krav Maga, Sambo and Systema are similar to it, as far as I can see. And you'll prob accelerate quicker in the early days than in the traditional discipline of kung fu.

    TaeKwonDo training is more sport orientated, in my view. Karate is ok, depending on whether its a sport or combat form. Judo or grappling arts I dont think are enough without a striking art.

    Really you need power, durability (taking a blow), speed, knowhow (comes from sparring/practice).
    You also need a fighters mindset ie dont panic etc. And ideally you'd have a training like ironshirt, iron fist etc so you can give and take powerful blows without damage.

    I'd say try a few different classes and decide which instructors/organisations you feel comfortable with.
    Some people love sparring for example. But others (and excellent fighters too) dont want to spar. This will dictate what is a suitable system.

    Finally, I'd say never misuse martial arts, or actively go looking for hassle . Lots of cities have a few people who are really really good. And they're liable to do serious injury to someone misusing their art.
    Its always best to walk away from a dispute unless the other party overwhelmingly deserves it.

    The guy who trained me was 5'0, was 130 lbs, British (not Chinese), and looked pretty camp. He looked the idea target for a bar-room bully. But fuck, he could kill someone without even trying.

    ___________
    Ultimately, I'd say you need to spend atleast a yr (prob longer!) training before you are accomplished enough for multiple assaillants. And that would be with a good combat focussed school such as Jeet Kun Do etc.
    After 2.5 or 3 yrs, you could be classed as a "mature" exponent, but could still learn lots more.

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  George1 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:02 pm

    I think Steven Seagal can fight in real as in movies lol!

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  cheesfactory on Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:15 am

    Regular wrote:
    cheesfactory wrote:


    In such situation, use massiv pepper spray. Its one of the best solution. Carry pepper spray with you...


    Massiv? What is it?
    Yeah good luck spraying multiple guys. You know that You are affected by spray too if they get close? All of them form a cloud. Even direct spray ones.
    All my towels at home were burning faces just because back blast is a thing when using in the open.
    For drunk people it doesn't work the same as they are usually number The Burn comes later.

    My top ones would be Mk3 or Mk4 yellow(18% cap!!!). Mk3 foam is awesome in a way that sticks to the person better and it works on eyes better.
    Walther Pro Secur would be my other choice


    Still those sprays are more effective when used by attackers themselves Wink And don't forget to have this with You


    If somehow You manage to spray couple guys and then You can successfully use them to beat those human pinyanas to the pulp


    For many years no probs with ballistic stream pepper spray. I have action every month with a bunch of different rioter. Always the same, give them pepper and then kick their ass (depending on situation) with/without weapons. But the pepper spray is always the most important.
    greets

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:38 am

    Learn some decent boxing, that will already put ahead of 90% of the populace and allow for multiple contact engagement.

    Otherwise, don't mess with many people at once, it is a huge disadvantage. Plus you could get shanked in the ass.

    Source: I've done TKD for years, wrestled for some time, and spent quite a bit of time with MMA (mostly crosstrained BJJ and kickboxing).

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  Regular on Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:20 am

    TR1 wrote:Learn some decent boxing, that will already put ahead of 90% of the populace and allow for multiple contact engagement.

    Otherwise, don't mess with many people at once, it is a huge disadvantage. Plus you could get shanked in the ass.

    Source: I've done TKD for years, wrestled for some time, and spent quite a bit of time with MMA (mostly crosstrained BJJ and kickboxing).
    Almost same what I've said to him. Learning how to punch is a thing that take years.
    Sorry, but You said You were semi-pro in MMA? That's interesting. Was it still in Russia?

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  jhelb on Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:58 am

    Thanks Firebird. My vote.

    Firebird wrote:Its always best to walk away from a dispute unless the other party overwhelmingly deserves it.

    I always try to avoid fights. However a bulk of the sub contracting work that I have to do compels me to travel to the southern states of the US(Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi). If you have ever been there you will probably know what I am talking about.

    A number of these guys prefer to stay unemployed primarily because they are big time extortionist and foreigners are easy target. UK is a lot safer, even places like Birmingham that are routinely denounced by FOX and NYT.  


    TR1 wrote:Learn some decent boxing, that will already put ahead of 90% of the populace and allow for multiple contact engagement.

    Otherwise, don't mess with many people at once, it is a huge disadvantage. Plus you could get shanked in the ass.

    Source: I've done TKD for years, wrestled for some time, and spent quite a bit of time with MMA (mostly crosstrained BJJ and kickboxing).

    Thanks TR1. Good to know that you are a pro. Like I said, I avoid fights but occasionally have to face extortionist head on. So, basically what you are saying is that first of all I need to learn how to Punch like an expert? Isn't it?

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:14 am

    Regular wrote:
    TR1 wrote:Learn some decent boxing, that will already put ahead of 90% of the populace and allow for multiple contact engagement.

    Otherwise, don't mess with many people at once, it is a huge disadvantage. Plus you could get shanked in the ass.

    Source: I've done TKD for years, wrestled for some time, and spent quite a bit of time with MMA (mostly crosstrained BJJ and kickboxing).
    Almost same what I've said to him. Learning how to punch is a thing that take years.
    Sorry, but You said You were semi-pro in MMA? That's interesting. Was it still in Russia?

    Oh no no. Never competed pro in MMA- no time commitment plus I'd rather not deal with nagging injuries later in life. Helped people prepare for fights at most.

    I did compete at a relatively high lvl in TKD though, went to Korea several times for tourneys, etc.

    I have only trained wrestling in Russia, which is a great place to do so but I won't pretend like I did it too seriously.
    Did train with a guy who later moved to the US, won California State championship in his division, unfortunately got sick before Nationals though.

    How about you?

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:19 am

    jhelb wrote:Thanks Firebird. My vote.

    Firebird wrote:Its always best to walk away from a dispute unless the other party overwhelmingly deserves it.

    I always try to avoid fights. However a bulk of the sub contracting work that I have to do compels me to travel to the southern states of the US(Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi). If you have ever been there you will probably know what I am talking about.

    A number of these guys prefer to stay unemployed primarily because they are big time extortionist and foreigners are easy target. UK is a lot safer, even places like Birmingham that are routinely denounced by FOX and NYT.  


    TR1 wrote:Learn some decent boxing, that will already put ahead of 90% of the populace and allow for multiple contact engagement.

    Otherwise, don't mess with many people at once, it is a huge disadvantage. Plus you could get shanked in the ass.

    Source: I've done TKD for years, wrestled for some time, and spent quite a bit of time with MMA (mostly crosstrained BJJ and kickboxing).

    Thanks TR1. Good to know that you are a pro. Like I said, I avoid fights but occasionally have to face extortionist head on. So, basically what you are saying is that first of all I need to learn how to Punch like an expert? Isn't it?

    Well first of all I am not a pro, just a martial arts enthusiast of many years.

    But yeah, basically if you learn decent footwork, head movement and how to punch and defend with your arms, you are in a better state than most people.

    There are fancier martial arts but most are less practical in the streets unless you are at a really high level.
    Plus kicking can really suck depending on the conditions/shoes/other problems you might encounter.
    Just stick to your hands.

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  jhelb on Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:10 am

    TR1 wrote:
    But yeah, basically if you learn decent footwork, head movement and how to punch and defend with your arms, you are in a better state than most people.

    There are fancier martial arts but most are less practical in the streets unless you are at a really high level.
    Plus kicking can really suck depending on the conditions/shoes/other problems you might encounter.
    Just stick to your hands.

    TR1, any tips on how an individual can train his head so that it can withstand multiple punches especially if they opponent is taller? As I said in my previous post at 5'8" I am quite short but more often than not have to come across criminal gangs in the US where the guys are 6' and above.

    When you trained did you do any exercise for strengthening your head/skull? I hear Chinese kung fu practitioners do that as do Russian special forces like Alfa.

    I once stabbed a mugger in Jackson,Mississippi just above his knee with a pen knife and then twisted the knife anti clockwise and then ran away


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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  Firebird on Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:23 pm

    jhelb wrote:Thanks Firebird. My vote.

    Firebird wrote:Its always best to walk away from a dispute unless the other party overwhelmingly deserves it.

    I always try to avoid fights. However a bulk of the sub contracting work that I have to do compels me to travel to the southern states of the US(Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi). If you have ever been there you will probably know what I am talking about.

    A number of these guys prefer to stay unemployed primarily because they are big time extortionist and foreigners are easy target. UK is a lot safer, even places like Birmingham that are routinely denounced by FOX and NYT.  


    TR1 wrote:Learn some decent boxing, that will already put ahead of 90% of the populace and allow for multiple contact engagement.

    Otherwise, don't mess with many people at once, it is a huge disadvantage. Plus you could get shanked in the ass.

    Source: I've done TKD for years, wrestled for some time, and spent quite a bit of time with MMA (mostly crosstrained BJJ and kickboxing).

    Thanks TR1. Good to know that you are a pro. Like I said, I avoid fights but occasionally have to face extortionist head on. So, basically what you are saying is that first of all I need to learn how to Punch like an expert? Isn't it?
    ]

    When I say walk away, what I really mean is don't use violence just because you get good at it. Because if you use it on someone who didn't deserve it and they are REALLY good, they are likely to cause you serious injury... because you'd tried to pick on someone.

    If we're talking extortionists, muggers and genuine lowlifes, then clearly they DO deserve to get hurt, so you should have no moral qualms about giving it. (But ofcourse don't try and go past your limits).

    As you are mentioning extortionists, then there is a serious question of carrying weapons, hidden or otherwise. Or go round with a local who is carrying a gun. But ultimately it depends on the type of extortionist. I mean a real heavy duty one would be armed, and likely to be banged up soonish - unless he has somehow compromised your position etc.

    Fighting isn't really a "chivalrous sport". If some dickheads "career" is to intimidate those he considers weak, then to me, weapon violence sounds a clear remedy (depdening on where you are, and what any legal/other repercussions would be).

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:06 pm

    for the love of god dont do headbutts esp. if you are facing multiple foes. a headbutt done right should leave you disoriented or worse unconscious. not something your opponents will wait out for the sake of fairness.

    also, if you are going to take a hit prioritize your head above all, the legs come after. obviously the head is important since it has the brain and all, plus you kind of need to remain conscious in a fight. the legs are for running ofc. as even fat slob when scared to death can run pretty fast provided the legs are still good.



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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:37 pm

    If you are dealing with angry people then learning to disarm someone would be a very useful skill for you to equip yourself.

    Also regarding height... don't give it a second thought... I am 6'6 and it doesn't make me strong or tough... it just makes me a nice big target.

    I rather doubt repeated hits to the head will make you better able to take a punch... I think the best fighters avoid getting hit in the first place... obviously easier said than done.

    My suggestion is carry a legal firearm and know how to use it.

    Equally regarding people deserving getting stabbed or not... ???

    Most people do what they can to survive... and for most of us that means just working and bringing up a family and relying on friends when needed and following for the most part the law.

    In some places and situations that is not an option... you going to judge people for that?


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    jhelb
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 419
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    Join date : 2015-04-04
    Location : Previously: Belarus Currently: A Small Island No One Cares About

    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

    Post  jhelb on Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:59 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:
    also, if you are going to take a hit prioritize your head above all, the legs come after. obviously the head is important since it has the brain and all, plus you kind of need to remain conscious in a fight

    Yeah! Like I said, Chinese kung fu practitioners , Muay Thai fighters, Russian Special Forces are known to train their head to survive blows.






    GarryB wrote: I am 6'6 and it doesn't make me strong or tough... it just makes me a nice big target.

    Actually GarryB, muggers will think twice before approaching someone of your height.

    BTW: You probably will be a great find for the Tall Blacks or the Black Caps thumbsup

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    Re: Can anyone ever fight as people do in movies

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