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    Turkish Stream pipeline: News

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    George1

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:51 pm

    Turkish Stream pipeline construction project suspended — Russia’s Energy Minister


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    kvs

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  kvs on Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:37 pm

    George1 wrote:Turkish Stream pipeline construction project suspended — Russia’s Energy Minister

    Good riddance. Turkey was not a reliable partner and started demanding major gas price discounts as soon as the project was announced.
    They can all eat LNG cake now, the twits.
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    A Different Voice

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  A Different Voice on Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:34 pm

    kvs wrote:
    George1 wrote:Turkish Stream pipeline construction project suspended — Russia’s Energy Minister

    Good riddance.  Turkey was not a reliable partner and started demanding major gas price discounts as soon as the project was announced.
    They can all eat LNG cake now, the twits.

    Things between Russia and Turkey will eventually blow over and there will be a reconciliation. It may take a while but Turkish Stream isn't dead forever. The Turks already realize they miscalculated in handling the shoot down of that SU-24. They have too much at stake economically to make Russia a real enemy. They are already at the beginning stages of quietly begging Russia not to impose overly harsh sanctions.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:57 am

    And it is not in Russias long term interests to cut itself off from Turkey... both countries could make a lot of money from trade, and I think the power control of one entry into the EU of Russian gas would give turkey at the table with EU nations... maybe even get them a seat at the EU table if that is what they desire, is really worth rather more to them than they let on...

    Regarding the Discounts... that is perfectly normal for very long term deals involving significant investment in infrastructure.. the customer has to be really happy with the deal so they wont just wait till everythings built and then try to renegotiate the deal for a better return or simply walk out of the deal now that you have spent all that money on pipes and pumping stations etc etc.


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    A Different Voice

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  A Different Voice on Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:52 pm

    Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu is making noise about imposing retaliatory sanctions on Russia. Related reports make it obvious Turkey:
    1. wants to avoid Russia implementing serious sanctions;
    2. wants to negotiate and ease tensions with Russia; and
    3. is threatening "counter sanctions" against Russia only as a means to aid in convincing Russia to go easy on its Turkey sanctions.

    Turkish PM threatens sanctions

    I expect it will take a bit of time for things to cool down between Turkey and Russia.  Should be interesting to watch how this progresses and how quickly talks regarding Turkish Stream resume.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:46 pm

    The problem however is two-folds.

    1. Turkey has handled the offence pretty badly. They have been lying about nearly everything. Whatever they have done that 23rd of November, it was either half-assed, either badly planned.
        a. Non ID of the plane.
        b. Duration of the 'air trespassing'
        c. The images "leaked" to the press, along with the "audio", they now say isn't the right one.


    2. This leads to the impossibility, for Russia (at least Putin) to get on the same page as Turkey, because.
        a. Lying so badly, is the sign they don't GAF about what they did, and they will do it again.
        b. The steps taken by Turkey, asking about de-escalation, are non-existent.  NON-Existent. They talk sweet, keep their turns on the Syrian border.
        c.  The economic bounty might be good, but this isn't Ukraine. Turkey will be having some tough times as much of its economy, IS smoke and mirrors and profited a lot from the Iran backroll due to sanctions.



    What is "needed" isn't the 30bln total trade with Turkey...although they're good. But one has barely 60 bln USd trade with...CHINA. The Russians trade with their "partners" is dismal. Iran can cut back a lot of that Turkish Tomato sauce. This should help Russia seek better ties with people they can have far more beneficial relations with. Like Greece. Russians need to take over a huge chunk of Greek coast. It's very profitable and the people aren't worse than Turks. Russia can have a lot of success down the road by targeting areas in disarray in Europe. Portugal is such an untaped potential. Italy is good too.
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    kvs

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  kvs on Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:19 am

    GarryB wrote:And it is not in Russias long term interests to cut itself off from Turkey... both countries could make a lot of money from trade, and I think the power control of one entry into the EU of Russian gas would give turkey at the table with EU nations... maybe even get them a seat at the EU table if that is what they desire, is really worth rather more to them than they let on...

    Regarding the Discounts... that is perfectly normal for very long term deals involving significant investment in infrastructure.. the customer has to be really happy with the deal so they wont just wait till everythings built and then try to renegotiate the deal for a better return or simply walk out of the deal now that you have spent all that money on pipes and pumping stations etc etc.

    If only Turkey was run by governments who were not hosting terrorist training camps for North Caucuses destabilization.
    When that day comes, sometime long into the future, then perhaps reconciliation will happen. The fall out with Turkey
    is not due to the Su-24 shoot down alone.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:47 am

    The fall out with Turkey
    is not due to the Su-24 shoot down alone.

    Sadly I tend to agree... I think good business relations is always the best solution but in this case (and with other similar situations like Russia and Pakistan/Saudi arabia/Quatar etc) I think the shoot down is just the symptom that reveals the presence of underlying disease.

    These countries with ideologies to spread have to decide whether they want the rest of the world to be like them, or whether they just want to trade and live in the world as it is without manipulating the other players... ironically Russia has been there with communism, but it was hardly active in converting democracies into socialist states... I suspect China and to a much lessor extent Albania/Yugoslavia made them realise that just because a country is communist or socialist does not make them best buddies.

    Of course Yugoslavia and China proved for some time that it was possible to be communist AND friends with the west as long as you weren't a threat and could be "used" against a threat to the west (ie Soviet Union) then there was plenty of room for cooperation.


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    A Different Voice

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  A Different Voice on Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:39 pm

    [These countries with ideologies to spread have to decide whether they want the rest of the world to be like them, or whether they just want to trade and live in the world as it is without manipulating the other players... ironically Russia has been there with communism, but it was hardly active in converting democracies into socialist states...[/quote]

    Really dude?

    Regardless, I agree with your larger point. Countries have a choice with respect to their foreign policy. They can try and export their ideology to other countries by various means or they decide to trade and stay out of the affairs of others.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:26 pm

    A Different Voice wrote:[These countries with ideologies to spread have to decide whether they want the rest of the world to be like them, or whether they just want to trade and live in the world as it is without manipulating the other players... ironically Russia has been there with communism, but it was hardly active in converting democracies into socialist states...

    Really dude?

    Regardless, I agree with your larger point. Countries have a choice with respect to their foreign policy. They can try and export their ideology to other countries by various means or they decide to trade and stay out of the affairs of others.[/quote]

    I would like you to offer me a democracy turned Socialist by Russia. Soviet Union is different and even that, not exactly going out their ways making democratic regimes "crumble". Interwar Baltic Nations do not qualify as "democracies". And basically no one in Europe was this great beacon of democracy during interwar period.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:38 am

    The Soviets actively tried to gain influence and "convert" democracies to their way of thinking... Russia on the other hand has existed as a separate entity before 1917 and after 1991 has not directly done so.


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    George1

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    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:03 am

    Russia to own Turkish Stream’s seabed section, Turkey — its land section, ministry says

    On Monday, the Russian and Turkish energy ministers signed an intergovernmental agreement on the construction of the Turkish Stream gas pipeline


    ISTANBUL, October 10. /TASS/. Russia will own the seabed section of the Turkish Stream gas pipeline and Turkey will own its mainland section, the Russian Energy Ministry said on Monday citing Minister Alexander Novak after talks with Turkey.

    "As Alexander Novak said, the agreement envisages that the land section of the Turkish Stream gas pipeline will be owned by a Turkish company, while its seabed section will be owned by a Russian company," the ministry said.

    Earlier on Monday, Russian Minister of Energy Alexander Novak and Turkish Minister of Energy and Natural Resources Berat Albayrak signed an intergovernmental agreement on the construction of the Turkish Stream gas pipeline. The agreement was signed in the presence of the two countries’ presidents, Vladimir Putin of Russia and Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey.

    After Russia abandoned the South Stream project in 2014 over the European Union’s insistence on its compliance with the so-called Third Energy Package, it was decided to launch an alternative project — the Turkish Stream. It was initially planned to build four threads of the pipeline with a capacity of 15.75 billion cubic meters each. However, talks on the project were soon suspended over a chill in Russia-Turkey bilateral relations.

    After the two countries resumed full-format relations, the work on the Turkish Stream project was continued. The sides set up a working group and drafted a roadmap.

    The project provides for the construction of a gas pipeline across the Black Sea bed to Turkey’s European part, with further extension to the border with Greece. The seabed section is about 910 kilometers and the mainland section in Turkey — 180 kilometers. The project cost was earlier estimated at 11.4 billion euros. It is planned that the first thread will be meant entirely for supplies of gas to the Turkish market.


    More:
    http://tass.com/economy/905524?_ga=1.164346751.1337049799.1447427261


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