Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Share

    Kyo
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 514
    Points : 563
    Join date : 2014-11-03
    Age : 67
    Location : Brasilia

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Kyo on Sat May 23, 2015 2:09 pm

    About US involvement in Maidan Macedonia:

    A Color Revolution for Macedonia

    Paul Craig Roberts

    During the Cold War Washington was concerned about communists fomenting street protests that they could turn into revolutions, with groomed politicians waiting in the wings to take over the new government, thus expanding the Soviet empire. Today this is precisely what Washington does.
    We recently witnessed this operation in Ukraine and now it seems to be underway in Macedonia.
    The National Endowment for Democracy was established in 1983. The official purpose is to promote democracy abroad. The real purpose was to create dissension in Soviet Eastern Europe. Today the NED uses our tax money to overthrow governments not aligned with Washington.
    The NED funds non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in countries targeted by Washington for political destabilization. These NGOs operate under such rubrics as “teaching democracy” and “human rights.” The NGOs develop cadres consisting of idealistic students and disgruntled politicians and set them against the existing government whose independence Washington wishes to curtail.
    The idealistic students are simply dupes, and the disgruntled politicians simply desire power in office and will serve Washington in order to get it.
    According to Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, Washington spent $5 billion in Ukraine grooming politicians and creating NGOs as Washington’s Fifth Columns. When Ukraine’s president Viktor Yanukovich refused to align Ukraine with Washington’s interests, Washington unleashed its Fifth Columns, and Yanukovich’s government was overthrown with violence. Despite Washington’s talk about democracy, the fact that Yanukovich’s government was democratically elected and a new election was only a few months away did not stop Washington from overthrowing Yanukovich.
    Now the same fate seems in store for Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kyrgystan, and Macedonia. Most Americans don’t know where these places are. Armenia and Azerbaijan are east of the Caspian Sea and are former provinces of the Soviet Union. Kyrgystan is a former Soviet province that borders China. Macedonia, birthplace of Alexander the Great, is a part of northern Greece, but in the 20th century portions of Macedonia became parts of Bulgaria, Serbia, and Albania before becoming a province in Yugoslavia. When Washington destroyed Yugoslavia, Macedonia became an independent republic of two million people. Macedonia is landlocked and surrounded by Greece on the south, Bulgaria on the east, Albania on the west, and by Serbia and Washington-created Kosovo on the north.
    Why is Washington interested in controlling Macedonia?
    The Macedonian government refused to participate in Washington’s sanctions against Russia and supports the Russian Turkish Stream natural gas pipeline that will deliver Russian natural gas to Europe via Turkey to the Greek border.
    Greece is being looted by the European Union, the IMF, and the German and Dutch banks. Consequently, Greece is being pushed into Russia’s arms as Russian support is Greece’s only alternative to the crippling austerity that the EU is forcing upon the Greek people. Macedonia sits between Greece and Serbia, a country with no love lost for Washington and the EU as a result of Serbia’s dismemberment by Washington and NATO aggression. Washington fears the flow of Russian energy, over which Washington would have no control, into its European vassal states via Russian allies in Europe.
    If Washington can grab Macedonia, Washington can stand between Greece and Serbia and perhaps persuade Greece to align with a Washington-supported natural gas pipeline that would supply Europe from Azerbaijan, thus reducing Russia’s influence in Europe.
    Macedonia has an Albanian minority population. Albania is a Washington vassal and NATO member. Washington has aligned with the dissident Albanians, demonstrators are in the streets, the Macedonian government is accused of corruption as was the Ukrainian government, and the US State Department is expressing its concerns about the Macedonian political crisis that Washington has orchestrated.
    Washington is forever talking about democracy and human rights but has no respect for either. Washington uses these words as assertions of their absence in governments Washington intends to overthrow.
    The Russian government understands the unfolding events. Whether the Russian government has learned its lesson from standing aside while the Ukrainian government was overthrown remains to be seen.
    From an American perspective, as contrasted with Washington’s perspective, the question is whether the reckless pursuit of US hegemony is worth the risk of war with Russia and China. The neoconservatives, who have an iron grip on US foreign policy, believe that hegemony is worth any risk. But do Americans derive sufficient vicarious pleasure from a handful of neocons lording it over the world to accept the risk of nuclear war?
    The naked aggression that Washington is displaying toward Russia should alarm not only the American people but also the entire world. War is in the making. War with Russia means war also with China. This is not a war that Washington and its vassals or human life can win.

    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2533
    Points : 2666
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  kvs on Sat May 23, 2015 2:35 pm

    [quote="Kyo"]About US involvement in Maidan Macedonia:

    A Color Revolution for Macedonia

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/05/22/color-revolution-macedonia-paul-craig-roberts/


    Nice article. Roberts is the only westerner I know of who is properly evaluating the situation.

    It is interesting how the US neocons are at their core ex-Trotskyists. And they are using the
    tools of the commies in basically pursuing the same agenda of world revolution but based out
    of Washington and not Moscow.

    Too bad the average media consumer lemming is too dumb to catch on. Most are saps who
    really believe that the USA is some invariant, infallible bastion of goodness.

    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4468
    Points : 4659
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu May 28, 2015 6:25 pm

    Serbia's Prime Minister (Aleksandar Vucic) is a liver-lipped stooge!!!



    Serbia to join US-backed gas project, seeks diversification from Russia - PM

    ...I wonder when Northern Serbia ends up being carved up by Nuland and co., like a Christmas ham? BTW Vucic is on a role, a month ago he hired Tony Blair to advise the economic activities of his govt....yes the same Tony Blair who was the biggest cheerleader for the NATO attack on Serbia!!!

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5630
    Points : 6283
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:48 pm

    Nice thumbsup

    Rusija i Grčka dati zeleno svjetlo za turske toka

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9451
    Points : 9943
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  George1 on Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:16 am

    Greece to confirm construction of natural gas pipeline jointly with Russia — minister

    The Turkish Stream pipeline is more beneficial for Greece than the planned Trans-Adriatic Pipeline (TAP)

    ATHENS, July 20. /TASS/. Greece supports the plan of building a natural gas pipeline jointly with Russia to be an extension of the Turkish Stream gas pipeline, new Minister of Productive Reconstruction, Environment and Energy of Greece Panos Skourletis said on Monday at the ceremony of responsibilities’ handover from the former minister Panagiotis Lafazanis.

    Skourletis said the plan of building a new Greek-Russian gas pipeline in the territory of Greece is supported. It opens new opportunities to be used, the minister said.

    This pipeline is more beneficial for Greece than the planned Trans-Adriatic Pipeline (TAP), Lafazanis said earlier. "The Russian project will provide more benefits because Greece will own a 50% stake in the pipeline and because tariffs will be higher," the ex-minister added.

    Greek state-owned Energy Investments Public Enterprise S.A. (EIPE S.A.) and Russia’s VEB Capital will be partners in the project. Investments into construction will amount to $2 bln. The project will be 100% financed by the Russian side and will make possible to create 20,000 jobs in Greece.

    The parties signed the intergovernmental memorandum on cooperation within the framework of building the Turkish Stream gas pipeline extension in Greece at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum on June 19. Construction of the segment is to start in 2016 and will end at the turn of 2019.


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    ExBeobachter1987
    Junior Lieutenant
    Junior Lieutenant

    Posts : 443
    Points : 443
    Join date : 2014-11-26
    Age : 28
    Location : Western Eurasia

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:23 pm

    Is Gazprom cutting the Turkish Stream in half?

    July 17, 2015 Alexei Lossan, RBTH

    Gazprom is halving capacity for its Turkish Stream pipeline, which extends from Russia to Turkey and then to southern Europe. The Russian natural gas monopoly has cancelled a deal with an Italian contractor to lay Black Sea pipelines. Experts believe that the Turkish Stream is now destined to be a local project.

    Gazprom, the Russian gas monopolist, is halving the transit capacity of the Turkish Stream pipeline, which extends from Russia to Turkey and then to southern Europe, cutting to 32 billion cubic meters the volume of gas it can carry. Business daily Kommersant says the company has frozen its investments in the South Corridor project, which was supposed to take gas to the future pipeline. Market observers say that the Turkish Stream may turn into a local Russian-Turkish project, and that Gazprom will instead expand its North Stream pipeline in the Baltic Sea.

    The South Corridor project was planned to supply gas to the South Stream pipeline, which was supposed to run along the Black Sea seabed from Russia to Bulgaria, and after the South Stream was cancelled, to the Turkish Stream. Kommersant says Gazprom halted work on the eastern - the longest and most expensive - branch and now plans on finishing the western branch. The length of the western branch is 547 miles and the eastern - 1,010 miles. At the start of 2015 Gazprom invested almost 300 billion rubles (£3.3 billion/$5.2 billion). Gazprom has declined to comment.
    Italian contractor Saipem says that it has received a notice from Gazprom stopping their collaboration. A vessel belonging to the Italian company had been moored in Russian waters, waiting to start laying the pipeline on the seabed of the Black Sea. Gazprom has agreed to pay all penalties associated with the six months it had kept Saipem waiting, which Kommersant says amounts $300 million.
    The Russian government denies there is any relation between the annulment of the contract and the possible reduction of the Turkish Stream's capacity. "The cancellation of the contract between Gazprom and the Italian contractor Saipem will not influence the Turkish Stream project," Alexander Novak, Russia's energy minister, claims.

    "The South Corridor project is a priority for Gazprom. It is actively being carried out and no one plans on 'freezing' it," Dmitri Baranov of consultants Finam Holding says. "Furthermore, a significant amount of work has already been done on the project." If the Turkish Stream project is cut back, it will be transformed into a local project that will supply gas only to Turkey, he adds. "As of today no agreements on gas transit through Turkish territory have been signed," Baranov says. "If the agreement on transit is signed, then it will be yet another direction for Russian gas supplies to Europe. But it will only add to the existing directions, not replace them."
    In June 2015 Gazprom, Shell, OMV and E. On signed a memorandum on the construction of a second North Stream gas pipeline in the Baltic Sea with an annual capacity of 55 billion cubic meters. "The signed memorandum, in essence, is only an agreement of intent, it is not binding," says UFS IC chief analyst Ilya Balakirev. The existing two branches of the North Stream are only half loaded due to regulations of the EU's Third Energy Package, he says. EU anti-monopoly rules forbid one company from supplying gas and controlling its transit. Ideally, Gazprom would like to have both projects, but it is important for the company to show its partners that it can effectively renounce one project for the other, as it helps strengthen a company's negotiating position, Balakirev adds.

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5630
    Points : 6283
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:25 pm

    Interesting article thumbsup

    Novak: "Gazprom" has agreed with Turkey discount

    NationalRus
    Senior Lieutenant
    Senior Lieutenant

    Posts : 637
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2010-04-11

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  NationalRus on Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:16 am

    Viktor wrote:Interesting article  thumbsup

    Novak: "Gazprom" has agreed with Turkey discount

    deppresing artical

    Россия изначально предлагала Турции скидку в 6%, но турки ожидали скидку в 15%.
    Затем Botas потребовал скидку в 10,25% к базовой цене без привязки к меняющейся цене нефти, которая сейчас низка, но вырастет в будущем.

    awesome to sell anything now we must give long term discounts left and right now, does actaully anybody bysides western europe pay the actaull price? or we have discounts with them too now Suspect

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:26 am

    And the company is giving a discount because the initial price is higher than what the value of gas was worth anyway. Gazprom is well known for inflating prices and giving prices of all types to various customers.

    At least Ukraine wont be getting anymore discounts.

    whir
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 812
    Points : 851
    Join date : 2015-04-27

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  whir on Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:38 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Gazprom is well known for inflating prices and giving prices of all types to various customers.
    Do you mean like Apple or any other Forbes 500 company?

    sepheronx wrote:At least Ukraine won't be getting anymore discounts.
    Don't count on it.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:46 pm

    Well, lets see what happens

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9451
    Points : 9943
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:18 am

    In Russia, a new strategy for a new pipeline

    TurkStream will reduce its reliance on Ukraine for sending natural gas to Europe

    Forecast

    • Turkey will maintain the upper hand in negotiations with Russia over the TurkStream pipeline. Ankara will use its position to secure major discounts on natural gas from Gazprom.

    • Russia will use TurkStream to reduce its reliance on Ukraine's pipelines for sending natural gas to Europe, though it will never completely abandon Ukrainian infrastructure.

    • Gazprom will continue to test the boundaries of European energy legislation, but it will ultimately comply with the Continent's regulations.

    • Though new geopolitical realities are limiting Russia's energy leverage over Europe, pipeline politics will remain an important component of Russo-European relations in the coming years.


    Analysis

    Editor's note: Stratfor closely monitors the ebbs and flows of world energy. Aside from production, the transportation of crude oil, natural gas and petroleum products is of paramount concern for oil-producing nations. For energy consumers, transit routes are indispensible lifelines. A huge amount of the world's energy is transited through pipelines, across the Eurasian landmass in particular. In this periodic series we will examine some of the most geopolitically significant pipelines running through Europe and Asia. In this installment, Stratfor examines TurkStream, the successor to South Stream, from the Russian perspective.

    Since Vladimir Putin came to power in the late 1990s, Russia's natural resources have formed the foundation of Moscow's attempts to assert its power abroad. To leverage those resources, the Kremlin has woven an intricate network of pipelines across Europe that has accorded Russia powerful political influence for a decade.

    Despite Moscow's best efforts to maintain its sway over the Continent, Europe has succeeded in eroding Russia's energy leverage over the past few years. The latest battle has played out over Russia's TurkStream project, a natural gas pipeline formerly known as Turkish Stream that would circumvent Ukraine, sending Russian energy exports to Southern and Central Europe through Turkey instead. But finalizing the plans for the project has not been easy for Russia; though it has signed a deal with Greece, an agreement with Turkey remains elusive. Russia is hoping to push forward with building the first phase of TurkStream, which would bring natural gas to Greece and Turkey, while buying itself time to sort through the politics of the second construction phase — increasing the pipeline's capacity and connecting it to the rest of Europe.
    TurkStream: Two projects in one

    Gazprom, Russia's state-owned natural gas monopoly, envisions TurkStream as a network comprising four parallel pipelines running under the Black Sea to western Turkey. Together, the pipelines would have a total capacity of 63 billion cubic meters (roughly 15.75 bcm per pipeline) and would cost between $10 billion and $15 billion. Like its canceled South Stream predecessor, TurkStream is designed to send approximately half its capacity to Greece and Turkey while diverting the other half north into Central Europe.

    To achieve both phases of the project, Russia would first need to secure the Turkish and Greek markets to support the project's first half. Only then could Gazprom proceed with its second phase, building the final three pipelines that would stretch onward to other European consumers. Combined with the Greek deal already in place, a final agreement with Turkey would do just that, guaranteeing a customer base for the project's initial infrastructure. As with South Stream, Gazprom and the Kremlin are looking to jump-start TurkStream's construction as quickly as possible.

    By comparison, Russia is proceeding much more cautiously in its attempts to move forward with TurkStream's second phase. Gazprom's previous strategy of trying to control the entities involved in the construction and operation of the Bulgarian segment of the South Stream pipeline ultimately shuttered the project because it flouted the legislation of Europe's Third Energy Package. This time, Gazprom has changed its model, choosing instead to leave Russia's natural gas at Europe's doorstep, hoping to entice European companies and countries into approaching it with offers of partnerships. Russia recognizes that any expansion of the TurkStream pipeline into the Continent will likely need to be led, financed and constructed by Europe itself.

    Given this calculation, Russia's hurried efforts to begin construction on TurkStream are meant to convince Europe that its intention to stop using Ukraine as a natural gas transit state when Gazprom's contract with Ukraine's Naftogaz expires at the end of 2018 is not a bluff. Constructing even part of the TurkStream project would be a concrete step in that direction, which Russia hopes would give potential European investors more confidence in future pipeline expansions into Central and Southern Europe.
    Pipeline politics

    Many factors besides economics will determine the viability of the TurkStream project. Much of the last decade has seen a number of competing pipeline proposals — Nabucco West, Blue Stream II, Nabucco and South Stream, to name a few — falter and fail, in large part because of political factors that ultimately shaped final investment decisions. The environment TurkStream must navigate is no less complex, and each player involved in the project has a different and often competing set of objectives to meet.

    Russia, for its part, has a clear rationale for pushing forward with TurkStream. The stated purpose of the project is to diversify away from using Ukraine as a transit state for natural gas being sent to Europe for economic and security reasons. Gazprom's concerns about Ukraine's unreliability are legitimate and, for the company, a sufficient reason to look for alternative routes. Disputes between Gazprom and Ukraine have forced Russia to take into account not only Kiev's actions but also any disputes that may hurt downstream customers. Such disputes have twice resulted in natural gas cutoffs, and Ukraine's subsequent decision to simply keep the natural gas intended for Europe. From the Kremlin's point of view, it should have the ability to cut off supplies to Ukraine if Kiev fails to make its payments without risking Russia's relationships with downstream customers, including Turkey. Beneath this more public line of reasoning is the related motive of maintaining leverage over Ukraine. Natural gas has traditionally provided Moscow with a powerful political tool in its relations with Kiev; having a way to bypass Ukraine as a transit state to Europe would increase the strength and utility of that tool.

    Moscow is also looking to maintain Turkey's energy interdependence with Russia. Turkey is already the second-largest European consumer of Russian natural gas, behind only Germany. It is also perhaps the only Gazprom market outside of East Asia that is projected to experience significant growth as it continues to develop.

    Turkey, in its own attempts to diversify its energy sources, has taken steps to become a key transit state in Europe's Southern Gas Corridor proposal, which would supply the Continent with natural gas from the Caspian and Middle Eastern regions in the not-too-distant future. Looking for ways to bypass Russia for supplies, Europe has continued to seek out options that limit Russia's involvement in its energy imports, if not exclude it entirely. Because TurkStream would neither increase natural gas flows to Europe nor alleviate bottlenecks in transportation, Brussels has openly questioned the project's viability. Europe's active attempts to facilitate trans-Caspian natural gas routes, as well as thawing relations between the West and Iran, which borders Turkey and holds the world's third-largest reserves of natural gas, have added to Russia's sense of urgency in making progress on the TurkStream pipeline.

    Ironically, the Southern Gas Corridor could provide Russia with an alternative route for exporting natural gas to Europe. Russia currently cannot transport natural gas through the Trans-Adriatic Pipeline, a Southern Gas Corridor project designed to send natural gas from Azerbaijan and possibly Central Asia to Italy, because of an exemption in EU laws requiring the pipeline be accessible to all potential suppliers. However, the exemption is in place only for the first phase of the project; if the pipeline were to expand, non-Azerbaijani suppliers (including Russia) could use it to send natural gas downstream to Greece and Italy. Since Gazprom's internal production costs will likely always undercut other, more expensive production in the Caspian region, the company would likely retain an edge in negotiations with Central Asian producers over their involvement in future projects transiting the Caspian Sea. Russia has already entered into close talks with Azerbaijan, intending to insert itself into future Southern Corridor projects.

    As Russia continues its talks with Turkey to reach a final deal on TurkStream, it will keep looking for ways to move forward on the first phase of the pipeline's construction, despite political resistance from the West. Though Gazprom's South Stream failure will make the company cautious in the future as the project expands into Europe, Russia will at least be able to pursue initial construction unhindered by the Continent's regulations.


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2533
    Points : 2666
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  kvs on Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:34 am

    The usual BS from Stratfor. Russia is not desperate to sell gas to the EU. Doubling the capacity of Nord Stream will basically
    nullify the need for any South Stream variant. And Russia does not have to bend over for some 3rd rate banana republic attempts
    to extort huge financial concessions be it by Ukraine or by Turkey. The more Turkey acts like Ukraine the less pipeline capacity
    it will get.

    Turk Stream was an attempt to see if Turkey would become more pragmatic towards Russians national interests, including easing
    off its support for ISIS and the attempt to set up a Sunni Sharia toilet in Syria and a big chunk of Iraq. It looks like Turkey did
    not bite, so Turk Stream is basically dead.

    JohninMK
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3388
    Points : 3431
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:42 am

    kvs wrote:The usual BS from Stratfor.   Russia is not desperate to sell gas to the EU.   Doubling the capacity of Nord Stream will basically
    nullify the need for any South Stream variant.   And Russia does not have to bend over for some 3rd rate banana republic attempts
    to extort huge financial concessions be it by Ukraine or by Turkey.    The more Turkey acts like Ukraine the less pipeline capacity
    it will get.

    Turk Stream was an attempt to see if Turkey would become more pragmatic towards Russians national interests, including easing
    off its support for ISIS and the attempt to set up a Sunni Sharia toilet in Syria and a big chunk of Iraq.   It looks like Turkey did
    not bite, so Turk Stream is basically dead.  
    As you say, the normal Stratfor view of Russia, especially no mention of the implications of the NordStream capacity increase. Also no mention of what happens to the gas after Greece, for example Macedonia or Bulgaria?

    Agree with your last comment, Turkey now looks south and east, not north and west, especially after the EU said 'no'.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:38 am

    Russia can give discounts where it pleases... it is definitely not charity... in the case of turkey the purpose would be to allow very long term contracts to be signed to create stability.

    For the Ukraine... Kiev would need to be offering cash up front and some serious concessions to get a discount from Russia today.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9451
    Points : 9943
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:51 pm

    Turkish Stream pipeline construction project suspended — Russia’s Energy Minister


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov


    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2533
    Points : 2666
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  kvs on Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:37 pm

    George1 wrote:Turkish Stream pipeline construction project suspended — Russia’s Energy Minister

    Good riddance. Turkey was not a reliable partner and started demanding major gas price discounts as soon as the project was announced.
    They can all eat LNG cake now, the twits.

    A Different Voice
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 50
    Points : 52
    Join date : 2015-11-12

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  A Different Voice on Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:34 pm

    kvs wrote:
    George1 wrote:Turkish Stream pipeline construction project suspended — Russia’s Energy Minister

    Good riddance.  Turkey was not a reliable partner and started demanding major gas price discounts as soon as the project was announced.
    They can all eat LNG cake now, the twits.

    Things between Russia and Turkey will eventually blow over and there will be a reconciliation. It may take a while but Turkish Stream isn't dead forever. The Turks already realize they miscalculated in handling the shoot down of that SU-24. They have too much at stake economically to make Russia a real enemy. They are already at the beginning stages of quietly begging Russia not to impose overly harsh sanctions.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:57 am

    And it is not in Russias long term interests to cut itself off from Turkey... both countries could make a lot of money from trade, and I think the power control of one entry into the EU of Russian gas would give turkey at the table with EU nations... maybe even get them a seat at the EU table if that is what they desire, is really worth rather more to them than they let on...

    Regarding the Discounts... that is perfectly normal for very long term deals involving significant investment in infrastructure.. the customer has to be really happy with the deal so they wont just wait till everythings built and then try to renegotiate the deal for a better return or simply walk out of the deal now that you have spent all that money on pipes and pumping stations etc etc.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    A Different Voice
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 50
    Points : 52
    Join date : 2015-11-12

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  A Different Voice on Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:52 pm

    Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu is making noise about imposing retaliatory sanctions on Russia. Related reports make it obvious Turkey:
    1. wants to avoid Russia implementing serious sanctions;
    2. wants to negotiate and ease tensions with Russia; and
    3. is threatening "counter sanctions" against Russia only as a means to aid in convincing Russia to go easy on its Turkey sanctions.

    Turkish PM threatens sanctions

    I expect it will take a bit of time for things to cool down between Turkey and Russia.  Should be interesting to watch how this progresses and how quickly talks regarding Turkish Stream resume.

    KoTeMoRe
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3597
    Points : 3632
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:46 pm

    The problem however is two-folds.

    1. Turkey has handled the offence pretty badly. They have been lying about nearly everything. Whatever they have done that 23rd of November, it was either half-assed, either badly planned.
        a. Non ID of the plane.
        b. Duration of the 'air trespassing'
        c. The images "leaked" to the press, along with the "audio", they now say isn't the right one.


    2. This leads to the impossibility, for Russia (at least Putin) to get on the same page as Turkey, because.
        a. Lying so badly, is the sign they don't GAF about what they did, and they will do it again.
        b. The steps taken by Turkey, asking about de-escalation, are non-existent.  NON-Existent. They talk sweet, keep their turns on the Syrian border.
        c.  The economic bounty might be good, but this isn't Ukraine. Turkey will be having some tough times as much of its economy, IS smoke and mirrors and profited a lot from the Iran backroll due to sanctions.



    What is "needed" isn't the 30bln total trade with Turkey...although they're good. But one has barely 60 bln USd trade with...CHINA. The Russians trade with their "partners" is dismal. Iran can cut back a lot of that Turkish Tomato sauce. This should help Russia seek better ties with people they can have far more beneficial relations with. Like Greece. Russians need to take over a huge chunk of Greek coast. It's very profitable and the people aren't worse than Turks. Russia can have a lot of success down the road by targeting areas in disarray in Europe. Portugal is such an untaped potential. Italy is good too.

    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2533
    Points : 2666
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  kvs on Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:19 am

    GarryB wrote:And it is not in Russias long term interests to cut itself off from Turkey... both countries could make a lot of money from trade, and I think the power control of one entry into the EU of Russian gas would give turkey at the table with EU nations... maybe even get them a seat at the EU table if that is what they desire, is really worth rather more to them than they let on...

    Regarding the Discounts... that is perfectly normal for very long term deals involving significant investment in infrastructure.. the customer has to be really happy with the deal so they wont just wait till everythings built and then try to renegotiate the deal for a better return or simply walk out of the deal now that you have spent all that money on pipes and pumping stations etc etc.

    If only Turkey was run by governments who were not hosting terrorist training camps for North Caucuses destabilization.
    When that day comes, sometime long into the future, then perhaps reconciliation will happen. The fall out with Turkey
    is not due to the Su-24 shoot down alone.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15482
    Points : 16189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:47 am

    The fall out with Turkey
    is not due to the Su-24 shoot down alone.

    Sadly I tend to agree... I think good business relations is always the best solution but in this case (and with other similar situations like Russia and Pakistan/Saudi arabia/Quatar etc) I think the shoot down is just the symptom that reveals the presence of underlying disease.

    These countries with ideologies to spread have to decide whether they want the rest of the world to be like them, or whether they just want to trade and live in the world as it is without manipulating the other players... ironically Russia has been there with communism, but it was hardly active in converting democracies into socialist states... I suspect China and to a much lessor extent Albania/Yugoslavia made them realise that just because a country is communist or socialist does not make them best buddies.

    Of course Yugoslavia and China proved for some time that it was possible to be communist AND friends with the west as long as you weren't a threat and could be "used" against a threat to the west (ie Soviet Union) then there was plenty of room for cooperation.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    A Different Voice
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 50
    Points : 52
    Join date : 2015-11-12

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  A Different Voice on Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:39 pm

    [These countries with ideologies to spread have to decide whether they want the rest of the world to be like them, or whether they just want to trade and live in the world as it is without manipulating the other players... ironically Russia has been there with communism, but it was hardly active in converting democracies into socialist states...[/quote]

    Really dude?

    Regardless, I agree with your larger point. Countries have a choice with respect to their foreign policy. They can try and export their ideology to other countries by various means or they decide to trade and stay out of the affairs of others.

    KoTeMoRe
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3597
    Points : 3632
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:26 pm

    A Different Voice wrote:[These countries with ideologies to spread have to decide whether they want the rest of the world to be like them, or whether they just want to trade and live in the world as it is without manipulating the other players... ironically Russia has been there with communism, but it was hardly active in converting democracies into socialist states...

    Really dude?

    Regardless, I agree with your larger point. Countries have a choice with respect to their foreign policy. They can try and export their ideology to other countries by various means or they decide to trade and stay out of the affairs of others.[/quote]

    I would like you to offer me a democracy turned Socialist by Russia. Soviet Union is different and even that, not exactly going out their ways making democratic regimes "crumble". Interwar Baltic Nations do not qualify as "democracies". And basically no one in Europe was this great beacon of democracy during interwar period.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Turkish Stream pipeline: News

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 10:17 pm


      Current date/time is Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:17 pm