GarryB wrote: "They are not in a hurry" to get it into service in enormous numbers because they don't need enormous numbers of them.
They are not making thousands of PAK FAs because they don't need thousands of PAK FAs... I think the Su-35 is a far better counter to NATO F-35s anyway.
Please stop with your non sense.
They training for evacuation of 40 million of civilians. So if that doesn't Ring an emergency to you ,then no idea what's is wrong with your logic. Russia is in a state of very highly potential war even more dangerous that the one Soviets times . And contrary to Soviet times , here NATO is pushing for provoking Russia into a war in many fronts at same time ,and far from its borders. All that it takes for it to start a major war is a happy trigger general that attack a Russian warship or submarine or plane. So if Pak-FA was invented for the defense of Russia , to guarantee air supremacy , then i can't image a better time ,than NOW!!!! and not in the future for them to having them in Service. Americans have near 200 F-22 that could be put in Service
in no time. and being upgraded and they can carry nuclear weapons, and those will give a major problem to Russia airforce with the ridiculous low numbers of Su-35 Russia have in the few dozens. And lets not go to the Armata T-14 , Russia also needs them.. NOW.. Russia needs Pak-fa and T-14s in the hundreds at very least ,but in reality needs a thousand or two ,and right now ,and not tomorrow or the next week or next year. because Russia face a real state of war NOW.. and not in the future. So why would you say Russia have enough planes and that their 40 or 50 Su-35 can handle near 200 F-22 + NATO airforces is Pure NON SENSE. Russia with all its airforce will be in a 20 to 1 outnumbered to NATO if not more when it comes to modern airforce with modern electronics and radars And to think NATO will fight under ideal conditions for Russia ,is foolishness , In a world war 3 , NATO will force Russia to fight far from its borders ,to create logistical problems for them ,and will fight in as many frontlines as possible ,To significantly reduce Russia capabilities to fight. and this is EXACTLY what NATO is doing today.
NATO is fighting Russia..
2)In Syria.... check.
But this is far from what they can do ,it can provoke more fronts, like TUrkey already shot down Russian plane, Israel, Moldova,Serbia,Armenia ,Georgia,Egypt,Tajikistan ,or even Scandinavia or Kalingrad ,NATO could provoke wars there to bleed Russia to death in wars everywhere. So Russia needs as many Pak-FA or Armatas as they can build IF Russia was piece of mind that is ,that no matter how many front lines NATO support against Russia,That Russia will handle it without problems. but Now that is not the case. Russia can barely hold in Syria. and being slapped in the face there at times.. So you tell me that Russia does not need Pak-fa now and that SU-35 ,the few Russia have are enough? NON SENSE. Russia needs to be Prepared for
a total war with NATO right this year in 2016.. So it will make sense for Russia to have a very lethal Airforce and Army with conventional force ,that can overwhelm NATO in any place. Because again Russia cannot use nukes and risk they fall in the wrong place and kill millions of civilians in cities . So this is why Russia needs to be very strong ,much more than NATO in conventional force too.This is because Russia face war , right Now from NATO ,and is only proxy ,but it will be a matter of time it will become a direct one ,if things dont change.
Wars That could happen with Ukraine and or Baltics and or Turkey and or US and or UK and or Moldova if invade Transnistria and or to counter Israel.. so many places that Russia will save many lives or even avoid it ,if they had a very strong number of modern planes and tanks deployed there. So that Russia can become a major deterrence with conventional power too. and not be so limited with their nukes ,that will not be ideal to use them first ,because NATO can later use a Russia first use of nuclear weapons ,to claim on its media is bombing million of civilians . Russia will not mind to have a clear major domination, in tanks inventory and Air supremacy to avoid a war before it start. .. and for the only Reason Russia does not have them in the Hundreds or a thousand numbers is because Russia economy is not there. . Russia even need more Submarines way more and Pak-FA now.. not tomorrow. So stop the Non sense ,that Russia "don't need them." because thats not true. Russia needs to be very strong ,if they want to become a major deterrence for NATO ,not only with nuclear weapons ,but also conventional weapons.
It was people like YOU garry ,who were saying day and night.. oh noo.. .No one is going to attack Russia since they have nuclear weapons.. then guess what? Turkey shot down a Russian Pilot and did it intentionally and to provoke Russia into a war. So in what way Russia nukes serve as a deterrence to Turkey ? In none.. Because Erdogan knows Putin is weak President and cares a lot of public opinion and sanctions and cannot use nukes against its enemy unless is attacked with Nukes first. So Russia depends strongly on its Conventional forces ,tanks and airforce to counter NATO.. and its nukes is only to counter the use of nuclear weapons against Russia. Russia DO needs hundreds if not a thousand of Pak-fa planes ,to fight against NATO.
Because you cannot say it will never happen, it can. And the only reason Russia does not have them is because of Economic limitations , nothing more and nothing else. But Russia needs a very strong army .. not that is "good enough" as you claim.. but one that is overwhelming superior in numbers and technology that can overwhelm NATO in a domestic war any time .
This is because the only Thing the west Respect is overwhelming force . They are picking low to medium level fights with Russia ,because they know Russia will not use nuclear of any NATO city ,risking civilians in a meaningful way to stop a war if they are not attacked with nukes first.
So Russia do needs as many Pak-fa and armatas and pak-da as they can. Not in the future
but right now ,that Russia is facing a state of war. stop the nonsense that Russia is good enough now.. because is not . "Good enough" , is a myth.. such a thing doesn't exit for Russia today in a fight with NATO. We only need to look at the embarrassing performance of Russia with Georgia and this was even told by medvedev ,where Russia lost a thousand soldiers to a small third world nation like Georgia. If NATO does what is trying to do ,and Clinton have been hinting will do.. that is provoke a full scale war in Ukraine and Syria . Then Russia will be forced at the same time a war in no less than 2 fronts. and guess what? Russia cannot use nuclear weapons against Ukraine , because it could potentially kill civilians or poison them with radiation .then you have crazy Erdogan ,an ISIS fanatic that could start a full scale war against Syria and Russia a conventional war. Then Russia cannot start using nuclear weapons against Turkey cities . Because that will justify NATO to retaliate with nukes Russia etc and they will claim is because Russia is using nukes against civilians. So Russia not only need a very powerful Nuclear force ,but also a very powerful modern Airforce ,with hundreds if not at least a thousand of Pak-Fa planes and a thousand of Armata ,just in case Russia is forced to fight NATO in a conventional war. In world war 2 , that war will have never ended if Russia does not invade Germany capital and put a flag in Berlin. So Russia needs to be prepared ,even if you think it will not happen ,for a war against NATO and being forced to invade them to stop them. So this is why you cannot say Russia have "good enough" anything. Russia does not have the Airforces or Tank force to capture Kiev ,Ankara at same time ,without horrendous casualties. And the only thing Russia can win a conventional war with NATO , is by having Modern Tanks and Pak-fa in the hundreds if not a couple of thousands For a very quick victory. This is because what Russia have today is not good enough for that. Russia cannot think in defense of its nation only , and needs to think in very potential wars it could face ,far away of its territory to defend its interest as they doing in Syria and as they will have to do in Egypt and Serbia that will be attacked too. By NATO freedom terror fighters.
What you fail to understand
is that Russia nuclear weapons is deterrence against NATO use of nuclear weapons.
But not a deterrence against Nations like Turkey or Ukraine. people who cares NOT SHIT
about civilians being nuked by Russia since they do not care about its people , So because Russia cannot use nukes against kiev or Ankara.. for the major legal problems it could face
if kill millions civilians ,it will be forced to use only conventional forces. And only having an overwhelming conventional force , like a Thousand of Pak-FA and many thousands of ARmata tanks can guarantee Russia a very fast war ,a very fast victory with next to no casualties. Having Big numbers of modern military will help Russia to overwhelm the enemy very fast
in any conventional war and force him to peace ,when Russian tanks in their capital.
Time is everything in wars ,and delaying things and allowing your enemy to regroup or develop a strategy is not good against an invasion of a NATO country. To fight in 3 or 4 front lines at same times from kaliningrad to Syria to Caucausus and Far east Russia will need at least 5,000 armata tanks to have overwhelming force ,while at the same time have all its borders protected ,and even have them in reserve too .So Russia can deploy in all potential battlefields if forced to fight in many places at same time as NATO is clearly seeking to achieve . but you dont see. If you think Ukraine and Syria is concidence ,then you are seriously behind in understanding what is NATO strategy against Russia. To overwhelm it in many fronts at same time , destabilize all its borders and all the nations Russia have interest to force Russia to interfere and becoming weakened ,something Russia could avoid if had a very overwhelming conventional but also nuclear force to effectively take the fight directly to their powerful enemies . Russia simply needs to be prepared to take the fight Directly to its most powerful enemies ,and that can only be achieved with an overwhelming conventional modern force. Otherwise will continue Russia facing Proxy wars with Alqaeda and ISIS or wars against border nations, endlessly being armed in Russia noses by NATO ,to fight for decades against Russia . So not is not enough , as you claim. Russia military capabilities are only designed to fight an invasion on Russia ,but not to take the fight to their enemies and invade and capture a major NATO power and overthrow its Government by force. So Russia needs to build as many Pak-fa as possible , 500 , 1000 or 2,000. or even more. Because it have a very large nation to protect and cannot have all those planes in the same place . And cannot rely Russia anymore in a defensive war only ,and sooner or later if things dont change Russia will need to take the war directly to NATO ,for what they are doing in Ukraine and Syria. And possibly even Russia will have to prepare to invade NATO too ,as they did with Hitler. Because when you have a tyrant in power ,wars dont end until he is removed by force. So yes Russia does not have such capabilities now , but it have to think plan for it ,whether it like it or not. If want to really protect Russia ,and force them to stop any criminal action against their nation ,then there is nothing better than to take the fight directly
to them ,and not continue playing embarrasing and weak games like in Syria allowing Alqaeda to continue bombing civilians,of pretending is not a war with NATO and that all is just a "misconception" or "misunderstanding". IF trump doesn't wins the elections , i don't see
how Russia will avoid a war with US if clinton elected. Since she have already told in every debate ,she will kick Russia out of Syria and Ukraine too, by force ,by giving lethal weapons to their Alqaeda "moderates" and their Ukraine nazis allies. Moral of the story ,for a WAR with NATO ,Russia will never have "good enough" army or airforce or Navy. it needs to get as many military modern weapons it can, as many planes and tanks and warships, without going bankrupt. because contrary to what you believe ,a world war 3 cannot be predicted ,how bad could be ,and how many theaters of Battle Russia will be forced to fight. Im sure the Pentagon ,
will try to get as many front lines as possible with violence and war , to take advantage of Russia military weakness ,that is out numbered by the west.