Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Share
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16717
    Points : 17325
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:49 am

    Keep in mind that increased thrust and improved fuel efficiency are both needed for real improvements.

    Making an engine twice as powerful alone does not off as much improvement as some might think as aircraft have fixed capacity internal fuel tanks that are designed for the engines available at the time of design.

    Fuel consumption is generally measured in weight of fuel burned to generate the energy developed per hour of operation... if you double you energy produced you double the fuel consumption if you don't improve fuel consumption.

    A case in point was the Yak-38 and Yak-38M VSTOL aircraft... the latter had a more powerful main engine, but because the aircraft itself was a subsonic design and no amount of extra thrust would allow it to be supersonic then the extra power increased take off weight but just shortened effective flight range.

    Extra power with these engines however... with the bonus of internal weapons carriage meaning low drag should allow a boost in super cruising speed extending range and lowering IR signature and expanding flight range and improving the ability to evade or to chase targets down.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10647
    Points : 11126
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  George1 on Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:26 pm

    Russian Defense Ministry to Buy at Least 1 PAK FA Fighter Squadron in 2017

    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/20160907/1045056444/russia-mil-mod.html


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7252
    Points : 7546
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:07 pm

    1 squadron is what? 12 aircrafts?
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10647
    Points : 11126
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  George1 on Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:37 pm

    sepheronx wrote:1 squadron is what? 12 aircrafts?

    In RuAF i think yes 12-14 aircrafts


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 623
    Points : 621
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  hoom on Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:17 am

    Incoming headlines from various bloggers/'Russia experts': "Russia slashes order for F-22ski!!!11!!" Suspect

    eridan

    Posts : 144
    Points : 150
    Join date : 2012-12-13

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  eridan on Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:43 pm

    That is perfectly in line with what's been announced by russian MoD before. A small quantity of preserial planes ordered, to develop tactics with and to practice on, before a larger contract (possibly with izd30 engines) is made sometime from 2020 onwards.

    avatar
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4488
    Points : 4661
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:02 pm

    eridan wrote:That is perfectly in line with what's been announced by russian MoD before.  A small quantity of preserial planes ordered, to develop tactics with and to practice on, before a larger contract (possibly with izd30 engines) is made sometime from 2020 onwards.


    We've seen something similar with the T-14 Armata. Ru MOD buys a small batch to try to finds bug before mass production, fixing the problems now before paying for them later. That's the complete opposite approach philosophy then the one practiced by the Pentagon.
    avatar
    OminousSpudd

    Posts : 897
    Points : 914
    Join date : 2015-01-03
    Age : 22
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  OminousSpudd on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:29 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    eridan wrote:That is perfectly in line with what's been announced by russian MoD before.  A small quantity of preserial planes ordered, to develop tactics with and to practice on, before a larger contract (possibly with izd30 engines) is made sometime from 2020 onwards.


    We've seen something similar with the T-14 Armata. Ru MOD buys a small batch to try to finds bug before mass production, fixing the problems now before paying for them later. That's the complete opposite approach philosophy then the one practiced by the Pentagon.
    It makes sense especially when considering the "5th gen" powerplants promised by 2019.
    avatar
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1417
    Points : 1418
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:50 am

    OminousSpudd wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    eridan wrote:That is perfectly in line with what's been announced by russian MoD before.  A small quantity of preserial planes ordered, to develop tactics with and to practice on, before a larger contract (possibly with izd30 engines) is made sometime from 2020 onwards.


    We've seen something similar with the T-14 Armata. Ru MOD buys a small batch to try to finds bug before mass production, fixing the problems now before paying for them later. That's the complete opposite approach philosophy then the one practiced by the Pentagon.
    It makes sense especially when considering the "5th gen" powerplants promised by 2019.

    I thought it was 2018.
    avatar
    OminousSpudd

    Posts : 897
    Points : 914
    Join date : 2015-01-03
    Age : 22
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  OminousSpudd on Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:53 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    eridan wrote:That is perfectly in line with what's been announced by russian MoD before.  A small quantity of preserial planes ordered, to develop tactics with and to practice on, before a larger contract (possibly with izd30 engines) is made sometime from 2020 onwards.


    We've seen something similar with the T-14 Armata. Ru MOD buys a small batch to try to finds bug before mass production, fixing the problems now before paying for them later. That's the complete opposite approach philosophy then the one practiced by the Pentagon.
    It makes sense especially when considering the "5th gen" powerplants promised by 2019.

    I thought it was 2018.

    My bad. Literally one page back too. Rolling Eyes

    pushkin

    Posts : 3
    Points : 3
    Join date : 2016-09-03

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  pushkin on Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:31 pm



    Russia Agreed To Share Critical Technologies Of PAK-FA With India Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


    pushkin

    Posts : 3
    Points : 3
    Join date : 2016-09-03

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  pushkin on Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:37 pm



    the video says that the indian version of pak fa (pmf) will be integrated with indo-russian supersonic BrahMos cruise missile....would the russian air force will also integrate the missile with its su30 and pak fa fighters?
    avatar
    Project Canada

    Posts : 625
    Points : 630
    Join date : 2015-07-20
    Age : 29
    Location : Canada

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  Project Canada on Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:20 pm

    pushkin wrote:

    Russia Agreed To Share Critical Technologies Of PAK-FA With India  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes


    Not really a good idea, however as technology progress, i hope Russia can introduce more improvements to their Own Pak-Fas so any leakage to foreign competitors of some weaknesses that this deal will result to would be nullified
    avatar
    OminousSpudd

    Posts : 897
    Points : 914
    Join date : 2015-01-03
    Age : 22
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  OminousSpudd on Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:40 pm

    Project Canada wrote:
    pushkin wrote:

    Russia Agreed To Share Critical Technologies Of PAK-FA With India  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes


    Not really a good idea, however as technology progress, i hope Russia can introduce more improvements to their Own Pak-Fas so any leakage to foreign competitors of some weaknesses that this deal will result to would be nullified
    Export is still export, the avionics packages will still be radically different compared to the domestic.
    avatar
    zg18

    Posts : 881
    Points : 957
    Join date : 2013-09-26
    Location : Zagreb , Croatia

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  zg18 on Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:47 pm

    Very Happy

    avatar
    JohninMK

    Posts : 5144
    Points : 5207
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:46 pm

    Sputnik write up. Note that the infographic in the article is from August last year.

    The 9-A1-4071K cannon for the Sukhoi PAK FA fifth generation jet fighter was developed by the Instrument Design Bureau for High Precision Weapons in 2014 and is an upgraded version of the GSh-30-1 30 mm automatic cannon.

    Weighing just 50 kilograms, the 9-A1-4071K is the most lightweight 30 mm cannon around and is ideal for aircraft. The cannon’s one-of-a-kind automatic fire system enables it to fire up to 1,800 rounds per minute – the best such performance for this type of weapon around. Another thing that makes the 9-A1-4071K so special is its autonomous water cooling system where the water inside the barrel jacket vaporizes as it heats up during operation.

    The 9-A1-4071K cannon can fire blast-fragmentation, incendiary and armor-piercing tracer rounds and is effective against even lightly armored ground, sea and aerial targets. The cannon can hit ground targets up to 1,800 meters away and aerial targets at a maximum distance of 1,200 meters.

    Flight tests of the 9A1-4071K modernized rapid-aircraft cannon were earlier conducted on the Sukhoi SU-27SM multirole jet fighter. Military experts believe that the latest targeting systems used on the T-50 PAK FA planes will dramatically improve the efficiency of aircraft cannons, which in some cases are way more preferable, compared to expensive missile systems.


    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/russia/20160918/1045429863/russia-gun-test.html


    Austin

    Posts : 6376
    Points : 6776
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  Austin on Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:10 pm

    avatar
    Luq man

    Posts : 31
    Points : 33
    Join date : 2016-03-26
    Location : The Netherlands

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  Luq man on Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:41 pm

    Austin wrote:came across a longish writeup on PAK-FA on secretproject

    https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/04/27/sukhoi-t-50-pak-fa-russia/

    lol!  I already posted this, post nr 891 Razz

    kopyo-21

    Posts : 68
    Points : 70
    Join date : 2013-08-21
    Location : Bangkok - Thailand

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  kopyo-21 on Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:26 pm

    I think the gun of T-50 will fire new 30mm ammunitions with plastic-driving-band and higher heat resistance primes that has just come into services recently. Firing new ammos, the gun muzzle velocity increases ~7% while the gun's combat readiness is 3 times higher. Besides, the new gun can eject completely all empty cartridges in any combat modes (upto 9 g-load?).

    Does any one know what is the limited g-load of gun firing on Mig-29 and Su-27 now?
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 623
    Points : 621
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  hoom on Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:04 pm

    So I've been reading some old threads on other forums & found this vid (presume been posted here before)

    And you really gotta say if it can do this on the 'weak' initial engines holy crap what will it be doing on the proper ones What a Face
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16717
    Points : 17325
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:18 am

    Does any one know what is the limited g-load of gun firing on Mig-29 and Su-27 now?

    From memory the only g limit for the early model MiGs was when the centreline fuel tank was fitted and that was a g limit for the tank and not actually the gun.

    Both the Flanker and Fulcrum were designed for dog fighting so I would think there was no limitation in firing the gun except when the ferry tank was being used by the MiG... the Flanker has no wet pylons and so could not carry ferry tanks.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 623
    Points : 621
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  hoom on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:16 am

    the Flanker has no wet pylons and so could not carry ferry tanks
    Huh, I knew pics with tanks were very rare, didn't sink in they are actually 0  Shocked
    It's quite shocking that they have that much range entirely on internal fuel while western planes are hardly ever seen without 2 or 3 huge tanks in any realistic load.

    I know I've seen Su-34s carrying a big centerline tank fairly often & Su-33 has the buddy fuelling pod so they must have a wet centerline, what about Su-30sm & Su-35?

    Svyatoslavich

    Posts : 344
    Points : 353
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Buenos Aires

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:58 am

    hoom wrote:
    the Flanker has no wet pylons and so could not carry ferry tanks
    Huh, I knew pics with tanks were very rare, didn't sink in they are actually 0  Shocked
    It's quite shocking that they have that much range entirely on internal fuel while western planes are hardly ever seen without 2 or 3 huge tanks in any realistic load.

    I know I've seen Su-34s carrying a big centerline tank fairly often & Su-33 has the buddy fuelling pod so they must have a wet centerline, what about Su-30sm & Su-35?
    Su-34 is the only of the Flanker family which can carry external fuel tanks.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16717
    Points : 17325
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:14 am

    It was my understanding that pretty much any Flanker with inflight refuelling probes can carry the buddy refuelling pod and external tanks.

    The vast majority of inservice Flankers are Su-27s which generally fly with half their internal tanks empty so external tanks are not even considered important...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4488
    Points : 4661
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:32 am

    GarryB wrote:It was my understanding that pretty much any Flanker with inflight refuelling probes can carry the buddy refuelling pod and external tanks.

    The vast majority of inservice Flankers are Su-27s which generally fly with half their internal tanks empty so external tanks are not even considered important...

    Aren't the Su-27 family/generation known for their huge gas tanks?

    Sponsored content

    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:29 pm