PAK-FA, T-50: News #3

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Militarov wrote:
It can be further updated that is not an issue however as platform its aging, unless they make radical modernisation to convert it to an actual 5th gen fighter... which i suppose MiG might do as they are to build light multirole fighter post 2020. and they wont get much money to start with... i assume they will just try with deep modernisation of MiG35 which then might lead to navalised variant. Even tho id rather finally like to see good single engined fighter from them than 15th recycled variation of MiG29.

Like this MiG proposal?

A) Evolution of MiG-29  





So back to the future then



http://www.paralay.com/lmfs.html

and single engine LFMS (izdelye 1.12)




And here is interesting wrt fleet:

The second contender for the role of light tactical aircraft appeared light fighter "Index of 1.12." This, according to unconfirmed reports, a single-engine plane kitted "product 117" or "product 117S", having a keel, placed vozduhopoglotiteli like F/A-18E/F. Usual combat load (2-driven short-range missiles and 2 — the average), low ESR, supersonic cruising speed (about M = 1.3), the highest thrust-to-weight (1.3 — 1.4), the radius of the act without outboard tanks at the level of the MiG-29 tanks navesnoymi allow this aircraft seriously "snap" not only European aircrafts of this class, but even "compete" wi
th heavier South American F-22 and F-35.


The highest thrust-to-weight, super-maneuverability which is justified by the requirements, makes it possible to machine-based version with a small vertical takeoff and landing. Advantages of such a carrier-based fighter becomes apparent if the Su-33 can be based on a ship displacement of 50 — 60 thousand tons, not so long ago made at the expense of Indian customers MiG-29K/KUB this requirement helps reduce up to 28 thousand tonnes, functional lightweight aircraft can be based even prepared to pay tribute to a way helipads corvettes. In VTOL fighter / boarding with the usual load (four controlled air-to-air missiles) the range of about 1000 km, the radius of the act — 340 km.

Yeah, something like that, however its more and more likely that LMFS will be based on MiG35 instead of being developed "from the ground" as there is simply no money for anything radical. Tho i would really like to see single engined LMFS as Russia rly lacks low cost single engined multirole fighter, India has same issue atm till they finish Tejas as they are left with only Mirages in that class. Some others belive LMFS will be just downscaled MiG 1.44

"freshness 2nd category" news:
MOSCOW, 25 Jan — RIA Novosti. Russian Navy plans to use in the future new Russian aircraft carrier deck version of the Russian fifth generation fighter T-50 (PAK FA project), said Monday on radio "Echo of Moscow" Deputy chief of the Russian Navy armament, rear Admiral Victor bursuc.

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20141025/1030053844.html


Lads I believe that we all are right in a way

I mean militarov is right if comparing 2001 Rafale to 1988 MiG 29k, garry and book are correct if you compare newest MiG-29k with same Rafale.

OK since this is interesting discussion maybe we can move this to MiG-29 thread?

1; It is obviously CGI, not a picture.
2; It is BS.
3; There are no pics of open bays on T-50. (other than engine test on KNS + open bay on Su-47)
4; It is old as fuck.

EXCLUSIVE

India Looking At 60 FGFAs As Russia Reduces Price, Final Talks On

By Arming India Correspondent

NEW DELHI, FEB. 3, 2016: India and Russia are in final negotiations in New Delhi to settle the contributions for the development of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) at a reported $3.7 billion from both sides, Arming India has learnt from diplomatic sources. An early conclusion of the agreement is expected.

Development costs are to be paid in seven years, starting with an initial payment of $1 billion. The breakthrough follows a price reduction by Russia last month.

India's contribution for development costs would entitle it to extensive transfer of technology and include delivery of three prototypes. Subsequently, the entire lot of FGFAs for the Indian Air Force (IAF) are intended to be made at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited's 'Russia complex' in Nasik, Maharashtra.

The cost of each series production FGFA is initially pegged at a $225 million apiece, which is about two-and-a-half times the estimated current price of the Su-30MKI, currently India's frontline fighter.
(thats flyaway i guess without the rest of stuff)

Sources disclosed that a reluctant IAF has finally been made to come around on the FGFA. But it has reduced its requirement to just 60 fighters, or three squadrons. This is being interpreted as a lack of enthusiasm for the proposed fighter, which is yet to prove true fifth generation capability.

The initial numbers were pegged around 220, which were later brought down to 120, and now have dwindled to half of even the reduced numbers.

Indeed, the Russian Air Force itself has committed itself to just 12 of these proposed aircraft, known in Russia as PAK-FA. These 12 aircraft will comprise a trial squadron.

But Russia is hopeful of persuading India to eventually commit to far more than the initial lot of 60 FGFAs.

India will have no major contribution to design and development, and the project is being re-modeled on the Su-30MKI lines, wherein India substantially paid for the development cost, paving the way for assembly line production in India under transfer of technology.

The initial concept of India having a substantial work share in the design and development of the fifth generation fighter in order to boost indigenous capability has been abandoned.

The rapid headway on the under-development FGFA is in stark contrast to the stalemate in price negotiations on the curtailed order for 36 flyaway French Rafale fighters, which are reportedly stalled at a level of over $11 billion, according to top Indian Defense Ministry sources.

The FGFA will very significantly enable Russia's military industrial complex to extend its pre-eminence in India by ensuring a follow-on to the Su-30MKI production line.

Informed observers see this as a shot in the arm for the Russia, which they reckon could impact immediately on French and American interests. A renewal of commitment to Russian aircraft will limit the number of Rafale fighters for India, and also reduce the possibility for Americans to sell a fighter aircraft to India.

Boeing Company Chairman James McNerney in October 2015 announcing in New Delhi that his company was ready to set up a manufacturing facility for its F/A-18 fighters, which also have a naval variant, in India.

Lockheed Martin leadership too had in the second half of 2015 made a pitch for selling its F-16 fighters to India, while Swedish Saab made a counter offer to make its Gripen NG fighters.

The two American aircraft manufacturers and the Swedish firm were competitors in the 2007 Indian tender for 126 medium multi role combat aircraft, which was won by French Dassault Aviation's Rafale fighters. The only close competitor to Rafale was the then Cassidian's Eurofighter Typhoon, which is part of the Airbus Group. Only Eurofighter Typhoon campaign, led by the Germans, has openly stated that it is all over for it in India for the Air Force's need for a combat plane.

Significantly, the latest development in the FGFA talks between Russia and India also signals that the public sector Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will continue to be Russia's major partner in India, and its engagement with emerging Indian private sector in defense production will be marginal.

Just a month ago, Russia rejected the possibility of trying out an alliance with the private sector Reliance Defence on the production of 200 Ka-226T light utility helicopters for the Indian armed forces by opting for HAL to be the production agency in India.

http://www.armingindia.com/India%20Looking%20At%2060%20FGFAs%20As%20Russia%20Reduces%20Price,%20Final%20Talks%20On.htm

Indeed, the Russian Air Force itself has committed itself to just 12 of these proposed aircraft, known in Russia as PAK-FA.

I am not a violent person, but I swear if i have to read this kind of shit just one more time i will punch someone. It is equally retarded as claiming as USAF only getting two F-35's because that is what they bought under LRIP1. For fucks sake.

Berkut wrote:

Indeed, the Russian Air Force itself has committed itself to just 12 of these proposed aircraft, known in Russia as PAK-FA.

I am not a violent person, but I swear if i have to read this kind of shit just one more time i will punch someone. It is equally retarded as claiming as USAF only getting two F-35's because that is what they bought under LRIP1. For fucks sake.

Well for now they indeed have commited themself only for 12. What happens after that we can only guess for now. He did not say Russia will order ONLY 12, just depends how you look at the sentence.

JohninMK wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Berkut wrote:

Indeed, the Russian Air Force itself has committed itself to just 12 of these proposed aircraft, known in Russia as PAK-FA.

I am not a violent person, but I swear if i have to read this kind of shit just one more time i will punch someone. It is equally retarded as claiming as USAF only getting two F-35's because that is what they bought under LRIP1. For fucks sake.

Well for now they indeed have commited themself only for 12. What happens after that we can only guess for now. He did not say Russia will order ONLY 12, just depends how you look at the sentence.

The most sensible thing to do to my mind. Order a batch of what are in effect pre-production prototypes. Learn all you can from them whilst sorting out any problems. Then start ordering volume production units, perhaps with some pre-ordering of the long lead time items that you know are good to go.

Unlike the crazy F-35 where there seem to be possibly hundreds of pre-production units, many of which, if not all, will have to be retrofitted with mods. Brilliant for Lockheed's profits but not much else.

Well thing with F35 is that there are many countries ordering it and they all want their few first pieces asap, which ends up being couple hundred produced before it actually reaches service adoption stage. And yeah most of them will have to be retrofited.

I suppose they wanted to start low rate production and test them in field and then apply changes as response from field comes back. Not sure how it will end up being, it might even cause that dozens of F35s from these early batches even get retired very soon.

India and Russia have finally agreed to reduce Research & development (R&D) cost on the development of India’s 5th generation fighter jet based on Russian Pak-Fa which will now be under 4 $ Billion for both countries and has also agreed to India’s demands to allow them to purchase smaller fleet than originally discussed earlier.

Indian Air Force as per earlier media reports had indicated that it will go for 3 Squadrons of nearly 60 5th generation fighter jet based on Pak-fa down from 120 jets due to the higher unit cost which will be pegged at twice the cost of Sukhoi-30MKI at 220$ million per unit.

While Russia is sticking to their earlier stand and will not allow Indian Test pilots to fly Pak-fa prototypes in its facility owing to domestic laws which now bar foreign pilots to fly military aircraft in Russian airspace, India instead will get PAK-fa Prototype delivered to India for User evaluation testing by Indian Air Force which will lay foundation for development of FGFA which will be customised as per Indian air force requirements .

Informed sources speaking to idrw.org confirms that smaller fleet will allow Indian air force to maintain a lethal fleet of FGFA customised as per their needs and allow integration of costly equipments sorted by IAF for FGFA while keeping procurement cost in check.

Indian Air Force will need nearly 400 new fighter jets in next 10 years due to the retirement of Mig-21 and Mig-27s from its Inventory. IAF recently committed to procure 106 Upgraded Tejas MK-1A along with 36 Rafale fighter jets from France with FGFA deal in the pipeline, India is reaching the halfway mark in replacement of retired fleet.


http://idrw.org/iaf-to-go-for-smaller-fleet-of-fgfa-to-keep-them-lethal/

Thumbs up for mods cleaning up the last few pages.

T-50-1, 3 feb;


http://russianplanes.net/id182759

T-50-3, late January, leaving to Akhtubinsk i believe.


http://russianplanes.net/id182495

If things go well, about 2-3 months left to wait for T-50-6-2... My body is ready.

^ T-50-6-2 will have covered nacelles.?

Im not sure about the following reports...

But im wondering about the cockpit of Pak-fa... somewhere i read ,transparent glass does
not evade radar signals and anything inside the cockpit will be captured by any
Radars.. Americans aparently use cockpit made in Gold to make the cockpit more
stealthy. So if there is any truth in any of this? does Pak-fa needs a special
cockpit/glass to evade radar signals like F-22 have?

Vann7 wrote:Americans aparently use cockpit made in Gold to make the cockpit more
stealthy. So if there is any truth in any of this? does Pak-fa needs a special
cockpit/glass to evade radar signals like F-22 have?

It's gold platted in Pak Fa as well.....it was mentioned several years ago

GarryB wrote:Just the cockpit canopy and it is very thin layer of gold so you can still see through it.

It would only be a few dollars worth of gold but radar waves are absorbed and converted to heat by the gold.

Without this layer radar waves would pass straight through the canopy and reflect off all the cornered surfaces inside and create a large radar return.

Even the F-16 had this to prevent an enormous RCS from some angles.

Amusing that it is a case of gold plating being relative cheap and worth the effort for very practical performance reasons...  

It's not really the heat generation. The gold is a good conductor and it forms a nice Faraday cage that reflects (mirrors) most incident EM radiation in the
right wavelength range (how thick the coating is follows from the desired scattering and the density of gold allows a rather thin coating).

055

Nice paintjob.

Nice pics.
The nose design is so good without the antenna in front of it which can be seen on other pics.

BTW what is that antenna ? On the Pak Fa it's for tests but I've seen it on some other migs which are in service.

Isos wrote:Nice pics.
The nose design is so good without the antenna in front of it which can be seen on other pics.

BTW what is that antenna ? On the Pak Fa it's for tests but I've seen it on some other migs which are in service.

What antenna do you mean? Are you referring to the big pitot tubes that T-50-1 and -2 originally had in the radome?

The LEVCON leading edge and wingtips in T-50-5R now have a yellow color that weren't in previous pictures of this same aircraft. Did it receive any antenna/receivers there?

Good eye. Maybe they test Himalaya ECM complex.

Svyatoslavich wrote:

Isos wrote:Nice pics.
The nose design is so good without the antenna in front of it which can be seen on other pics.

BTW what is that antenna ? On the Pak Fa it's for tests but I've seen it on some other migs which are in service.

What antenna do you mean? Are you referring to the big pitot tubes that T-50-1 and -2 originally had in the radome?

[img][/img]

This one. It's on the migs too.