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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

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    Ranxerox71
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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Ranxerox71 on Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:05 pm

    Yeah, must be that India which can't to bring into operational use TEJAS , light (so light that almost we can call them training-combat aircraft) for two decades, Massively start into last four years to kiss USA ass, and expect from Russians that they give them all possible technical and cods for changing work of Radar system and avionics,HARDLY....For they carrier they allegedly was ripped off. but i do not heard any complaints since he was put in full operational use, also whit so called bad engines in PAK FA have derivative Engines from they Su-30MKI, on which engines they haven't any complains at all, and other thing is that Russian was said, on begin that PAK FA just in second bach of operational produced planes will get brand new engines until all test one and first small serie for testing and first Serial productions will stay on AL-117...And Indian now look like heavily disapointed, OK Russia will develop PAKFA whit India or Whit Out , i will let them to by F-35 Wonder Plain.(just for Punishing)

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Sun May 03, 2015 4:50 am

    What is the status of the new engines (Изделие 30)?

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 03, 2015 10:28 am

    From what I have read they will be ready on time... so no further news is good news... Smile


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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun May 03, 2015 9:05 pm

    It's official: It's already well known that the serial production T-50 will be better than the prototypes (at least engine wise) but some time in the 2020's the PAK-FA will be one of the first receipts of a 2nd gen photonic based AESA. So far KRET is saying that the characteristics will likely be: the weight 1.5 to 3 times less, 2 to 3 times more reliable (ECM resistance), with a scanning speed and a resolution several dozen times greater.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2547p270-russian-radar-systems#92339

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  mack8 on Wed May 13, 2015 4:15 pm

    Some very interesting recent information about T-50 status from an insider. Waiting in anticipation for the new prototypes, supposed to be no less that 3 new plus the reworked T-50-5R apparently flying this year.
    http://forums.airforce.ru/matchast/4618-t-50-a-2/

    Now, i've run all that through a translator but obviously it's less than clear in some places, so can anyone make a brief resume of what it's said in the last post, especially the bit about stabilizers and "sunglasses"? Thanks.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Kyo on Wed May 13, 2015 5:05 pm

    mack8 wrote:Some very interesting recent information about T-50 status from an insider. Waiting in anticipation for the new prototypes, supposed to be no less that 3 new plus the reworked T-50-5R apparently flying this year.
    http://forums.airforce.ru/matchast/4618-t-50-a-2/

    Now, i've run all that through a translator but obviously it's less than clear in some places, so can anyone make a brief resume of what it's said in the last post, especially the bit about stabilizers and "sunglasses"? Thanks.

    What I could figure out using Yandex Translator is that apparently T-50-5R is being prepared this year at Komsomolsk-on-Amur due to T-50-5's engine failure. T-50-6 production stopped due to the decision to construct the aircraft of the second stage, T-50-7 and is intended for static tests. Later in 2015 will be commissioned T-50-8 and by year-end T-50-9 (surprisingly) this last one promised with the new engines (Izadeliye 30). For 2016 are scheduled T-50-10, T-50-11 (static) and T-50-12.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  jhelb on Wed May 13, 2015 6:35 pm

    Kyo wrote:http://forums.airforce.ru/matchast/4618-t-50-a-2/

    T-50-1 – being modified by Sukhoi.   219 operational hours including 197 landings.
    T-50-2 – is stationed in  Zhukovsky. 123 operational hours including 141 landings.
    T-50-3 – is stationed in  LIiDB Akhtubinsk. 181 operational hours including  92 landings.
    T-50-4 - in stationed in  Akhtubinsk. 74 operational hours including  49 landings.
    T-50-5R – being assembled at  KnAAZ.
    Work has stopped on the project  5P that was supposed to  restore the T-50-5 with elements of T-50-6

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Stealthflanker on Wed May 13, 2015 8:03 pm

    Will PAKFA be much lighter compared to Su-27 in terms of empty weight ?

    The Empty weight of Su-27 is around 15 ton. PAKFA is said to make extensive use of composite and weight saving method to make it lighter. But i wonder by how much.

    Is 14 ton looks reasonable ? (Thus making it equivalent to F-22's 14.2 ton)


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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed May 13, 2015 8:32 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:Will PAKFA be much lighter compared to Su-27 in terms of empty weight ?

    The Empty weight of Su-27 is around 15 ton. PAKFA is said to make extensive use of composite and weight saving method to make it lighter. But i wonder by how much.

    Is 14 ton looks reasonable ? (Thus making it equivalent to F-22's 14.2 ton)


    I don't think we will truly know until serial production starts, as the PAK FA is still in prototype stage (features of the plane are subject to change). With that being said early 2020's production models will likely be heavier than the late 2020's production models, as their was talk of very promising developments in the creation of aerospace grade heat-resistant aluminum, early tests suggest when the alloys are ready for mass that it will likely take the place of titanium with significant 'decreases' in weight and significant increases in fuel efficiency. Specifically they are talking about aircraft engines, time will tell if it replaces the titanium in the airframes:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t3747p30-vvs-news-photos#67861

    Also there was talk about photonics based equipment replacing electronic based equipment on the PAK FA, which should lead to significant decreases in weight:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t2547p270-russian-radar-systems#92339

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri May 15, 2015 7:58 am

    Demonstrator of a new engine (Izd. 30) for the T-50 fighter will appear in 2015

    "Technical project of the second stage engine for the PAK FA is completed, and currently is being developed design documentation for the production of prototypes of the second stage engine" said Masalov (General Director of " United Engine Building Corporation), noting that the work on the engine are carried out in full accordance with the schedule defined by the state contract.

    Masalov said that the first engine of the second stage - a demonstrator, will be produced in 2015. Earlier Masalov already said to the press that the first flight of the T-50 with the new engines will be held in 2017.

    http://lenta.ru/news/2015/02/18/izdelie_30/

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  jhelb on Wed May 20, 2015 11:39 am

    GarryB wrote:Air doesn't deflect or dissipate radar waves... early stealth paint had small iron balls suspended within it for the same purpose... in practical terms I rather doubt its effectiveness.

    Frankly Garry, I am not sure if Russia should be spending so heavily on a Stealth Fighter. I have spoken with several members of RuAF and they all concur that detecting the F-22 is a walk in the park for the RuAF.

    It is well known know that the concept of stealth is a lie that was spread by PR agencies based in US who gave the impression that B-2, F-22 are literally invisible to radar. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Similarly, the US or NATO will also be able to detect the PAK-FA because of their extensive satellite coverage as well as VHF radars.


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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  wilhelm on Wed May 20, 2015 12:55 pm

    Stealthflanker wrote:Will PAKFA be much lighter compared to Su-27 in terms of empty weight ?

    The Empty weight of Su-27 is around 15 ton. PAKFA is said to make extensive use of composite and weight saving method to make it lighter. But i wonder by how much.

    Is 14 ton looks reasonable ? (Thus making it equivalent to F-22's 14.2 ton)


    From everything I've ever seen....

    ...the F-22 doesn't weigh anywhere close to 14 tons empty.
    The Su-27 is heavier than 15 tons empty too.

    In fact, one could almost always guarantee that combat aircraft always end up considerably heavier than any beginning theoretical design aim point, or official specification.

    One could almost bet your house on it.

    That said, I have no idea what the T-50 (PAKFA) will weigh empty, especially in operational serial production form.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 20, 2015 1:06 pm

    The main difference between the western stealth fighters and the Russian one is that the US stealth fighters are supposed to be invisible long range shooters, while the Russian design is more about being state of the art in all sorts of aspects.

    The lower demands for stealth will make them cheaper and easier to operate and in practical terms much more effective.

    Needless to say the F-22 will rarely if ever actually have its paper spec RCS... even a single screw head a mm too high and the whole stealthy effect is ruined...

    On the other hand the Russian fighter is going to be a real detection problem for radar guided western AAMs like AMRAAM with their tiny short range X band radar... it doesn't matter if the AESA of the F-22 can see the PAK FA... if its AMRAAMs can't see it then it comes down to a dogfight and the PAK FA is much better equipped to fight a dog fight than the F-22 or F-35.... in fact in a dogfight I would rate the MiG-35 and Su-35 above the US fighters...

    But then the Russian fighters could easily spring a surprise... imagine an RVV-BD 300km range AAM with an IIR seeker from the 9M100 Morfei...  the lock on after launch technology that allows a 9M100 to be launched blind from a weapon bay and turn and fly guided by intertial guidance using a datalink and then looking for the target once it is flying towards it... selecting its target itself based on a 3D IR database of aircraft shapes... why not put that seeker and guidance system on a long range missile that is looking all the way to the target for targets... when it spots some it picks the most valuable target and homes in on it...


    Last edited by GarryB on Thu May 21, 2015 5:46 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  jhelb on Wed May 20, 2015 8:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:selecting its target itself based on a 3D IR database of aircraft shapes... why not put that seeker and guidance system on a long range missile that is looking all the way to the target for targets... when it spots some it picks the most valuable target and homes in on it...

    GarryB, will you please elaborate this part.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Flanky on Thu May 21, 2015 11:50 am

    With a long range missiles you can shoot a missile directed to reach some region where you expect an enemy is hiding and program its seeker to start looking for targets once it reaches the designated region... your own radar might not see any target but once your missile will reach the tregion it might be so close that its seeker might see a target hiding behind terrain obstacle down... or you might have a direct control over the missile from the cockpit and guide it manually to a target.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 22, 2015 9:47 am

    It is an aspect they developed with their EO systems like Shkval-M on the Ka-50 and Su-25TM where computer processing is used to analyse a live real time video image searching for "lockable objects".

    More modern systems can be loaded with libraries of 3D shapes that can be used by the seeker to identify targets and threats.

    Taking Brimstone as an example the view of a target in a MMW radar seeker is very specific, and tanks can stand out, as can turrets, and wheels, so the seeker on Brimstone is designed to find tracks and turrets on vehicles it detects, so if it finds a tracked turreted vehicle in a war zone it will generally assume it is an enemy tank and attack it.

    With Morfei, the sophisticated IIR seeker generates images rather than just hot points, so the IR view of a target area might lead to several targets in its field of view... it needs to decide which target to engage.

    Modern digital cameras have built in face recognition software to allow faces to be detected and tracked.


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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun May 24, 2015 10:52 pm

    Been meaning to ask this, but i keep forgetting, what radar will export PAK-FAs use and what will FGFA use, i am thinking Irbis, but i dont know if it'll fit. dunno

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Mon May 25, 2015 1:00 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:Been meaning to ask this, but i keep forgetting, what radar will export PAK-FAs use and what will FGFA use, i am thinking Irbis, but i dont know if it'll fit. dunno
    Does it make any sense to sell such a sophisticated airframe with the radar of a previous generation? I always thought that the Indians would get the N036, perhaps in a special export.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 25, 2015 1:07 am

    N036 is technically an AESA variant of Irbis-e (that being a hybrid in itself). With news that Rostec with their subsiduary KRET will be releasing photon based AESA radar tech by 2020, they could effectively sell the N036 to India at no worries, as by the time FGFA and PAK FA are released in numbers, the AESA tech using Photons will be in testing/service mode and can be used on PAK FA, while FGFA will be N036 itself (maybe a modification of it).

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon May 25, 2015 1:12 am

    sepheronx wrote:N036 is technically an AESA variant of Irbis-e (that being a hybrid in itself).  With news that Rostec with their subsiduary KRET will be releasing photon based AESA radar tech by 2020, they could effectively sell the N036 to India at no worries, as by the time FGFA and PAK FA are released in numbers, the AESA tech using Photons will be in testing/service mode and can be used on PAK FA, while FGFA will be N036 itself (maybe a modification of it).

    To be clear it still use's radar, the photonic aspect is the actual components signal processing capability, which would replace the electronic components using electrons in the signal processing dept.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 25, 2015 1:38 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:N036 is technically an AESA variant of Irbis-e (that being a hybrid in itself).  With news that Rostec with their subsiduary KRET will be releasing photon based AESA radar tech by 2020, they could effectively sell the N036 to India at no worries, as by the time FGFA and PAK FA are released in numbers, the AESA tech using Photons will be in testing/service mode and can be used on PAK FA, while FGFA will be N036 itself (maybe a modification of it).

    To be clear it still use's radar, the photonic aspect is the actual components signal processing capability, which would replace the electronic components using electrons in the signal processing dept.

    Yes, I know. I am just saying they would be using a different type of AESA radar at this point, of newer capabilities beyond current.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Austin on Mon May 25, 2015 2:36 pm

    New Robotic Russian T-50 Fighter Jet Fit for Star Wars

    Russia's new fifth-generation T-50 fighter jet, currently in the testing phase, incorporates elements of automation which make it more like a robot than a fighter plane, explains a representative from the Rostech corporation.


    The Sukhoi PAK FA fighter jet, also known as T-50, is ready to go into production next year, and boasts innovative technology which renders the pilot one part of the plane's whole control system.

    "The PAK FA is already to some degree a flying robot, where the aviator fulfils the function not only of pilot, but is actually one of the constituent parts of the flying apparatus," explained deputy head of the Concern Radioelectronic Technologies [KRET] unit of Rostech, Vladimir Mikheyev. "That is, the reaction of the aviator is a part of the control loop."


    Mikheyev explains that "smart paneling" is another of the jet's smart features. "If we take the wingtip, from one perspective it functions as a wing, but from another it's also a part of the Himalaya active defense system."

    In October KRET stated it had delivered the first batch of Himalayas for the aircraft, which were developed by a KRET subsidiary in Kaluga and constructed at the Stavropol Radioplant Signal.

    "The unique system of active and passive radars and optical rangefinders is integrated into the aircraft body and acts as a 'smart skin'. Its use not only enhances the aircraft’s protection against jamming and its survivability, but also counters, to a great extent, the effects of low-observability [stealth] technology of enemy aircraft," explained KRET.


    In January KRET lifted the lid on a number of the T-50's stealth capabilities, announcing that "the aircraft company Sukhoi managed to greatly reduce the effective surface scattering of the PAK FA, which is the basic element for visibility on aircraft radars."

    "In order to achieve this level of stealth, designers moved all weapons to the inside of the plane and also changed the shape of the air intake channel, also lining its walls with a material that absorbs radio waves."

    "Thanks to these new design solutions, the T-50 is now ahead of not only all other fighters of the Russian Army, but also foreign models. For example, the visibility of the American fifth-generation F-22 fighter is 0.3-0.4 square meters," said KRET, while the value of this indicator for the T-50 fighter is between 0.1 and 1 square meters.

    "The T-50 is the first Russian combat aircraft made from a high proportion of composite materials, making up 25% of the mass of the aircraft and covering 70% of its surface," explained KRET.

    The T-50 is set to replace the Sukhoi Su-27 fourth generation fighter jet, known also by its NATO name Flanker B, which entered service with the Soviet Air Forces in 1985, and the Mig-29, known by NATO as Fulcrum which entered service in 1983.

    Work on the conception of fifth generation fighter jets began in the late 1980s in the USA and USSR; though there is no universally agreed set of features for the title of fifth-generation fighter jet, many hold that the only combat-ready fifth-generation fighter is the US Air Force's Lockheed F-22 Raptor, introduced in 2005.

    In December Russia's United Aircraft Corporation announced that production of the fighter is ready to begin in 2016, following the completion of the testing phase. According to spokesman Vladislav Goncharenko, 55 PAK FA jets will be delivered to the Russian Air Force by 2020.
    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150525/1022530075.html#ixzz3b9W5Zotg

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon May 25, 2015 4:01 pm

    Austin wrote:New Robotic Russian T-50 Fighter Jet Fit for Star Wars
    Russia's new fifth-generation T-50 fighter jet, currently in the testing phase, incorporates elements of automation which make it more like a robot than a fighter plane, explains a representative from the Rostech corporation.


    Some time ago there was an announcement that the 20ton combat to be based on T-50. In light of quoted press release this option seem to be even more interesting.

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  Book. on Mon May 25, 2015 10:54 pm

    Elbrus 8c + new softcode

    it make the differ

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

    Post  medo on Tue May 26, 2015 3:38 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3MiSoqcmA

    Interesting video about PAK FA and I hope it is not repost. For me was the most interesting the new helmet for pilot and helmet mounted display in it. In the video, it was tested with video picture of the environment. Maybe this indicate, that PAK FA will be equip with similar complex as EODAS in F-35.

    I wonder if operational Su-35 pilots also use this new helmet with HMD or the old ones.

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