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    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft

    collegeboy16
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    Post  collegeboy16 on Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:29 am

    Firebird wrote:Clearly, Russian military doctrine is now focussing on ultra rapid reaction. As seen by the waves of snap exercises.

    Russia does have a shortage of airlift equipment  AND the slower naval transport.
    With  these transport improvements, I wonder how this willaffect Russia's land forces. Will it mean larger forces focussed on global issues. (Its been unable to guarantee some state's security in the past, due to logistics issues).

    Perhaps it could mean higher quality equipment, but being flexible and able to shuttle it from the Kurils, to the Arctic and even off to Africa at lightening speed.

    ultra rapid reaction is the way to go x2- as crimea and georgia can attest to. prospect of elite airborne polite people with reaally heavy armor landing in the middle of your backyard airbase/airport is gonna be really big motivator to step back and rethink things a little more- esp. if you dont have nukes.
    Firebird wrote:
    It could mean the return of genuine allies in Africa and all round the World. Perhaps it will be all part of the new Customs Union. After all, a trade system only works with guarantees on trade stability.
    you're making it sound like protection racket- no i think russia should not be obliged to protect its partners for sake of trade- rather give them reasonable deals for self-defence arms.
    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:26 pm

    The aircraft design shown here is an extremely efficient design that is mainly enabled by two technologies that the Russians are for the first time publicizing.

    Before I start this brief analysis, I should mention that the aircraft shown here is not supersonic; however, PAK TA may very well be supersonic, but it would then be a different aircraft.

    Analysis in outline form will now follow:

    1- Enabling technology number 1: high-power-to-weight ratio electrical power generation technology. Traditionally, electrical power generation has been a very low-power-to-weight ratio process, especially when you compare it with a high-power-to-weight ratio system like a gas turbine. However, Russians have had high-power-to-weight ratio electrical power generation technologies involving, for example, gas-turbine-integrated magnetohydrodynamic generators, superconductivity, and ...

    2- Enabling technology number 2: high-energy-density electrical energy storage technology. Traditionally, electrical energy storage has been of a low energy per unit mass and of a low energy per unit volume, especially by aviation standards.

    3- Given the enabling technologies "1" and "2", an extremely efficient aircraft design, like the aircraft shown, can be developed, using only one gas turbine engine.

    4- This is how it works:

    (a) During cruise, a highly efficient subsonic aircraft only needs one-fifth of its takeoff thrust; therefore, during cruise, a large part of its installed thrust gets wasted; aditionally, the engine cruise SFC (specific fuel consumption) is double the takeoff SFC.

    (b) The single gas turbine charges the batteries before the take off.

    (c) During the takeoff, the large takeoff thrust is generated cooperatively by the batteries and the gas turbine.

    (d) The batteries only store energy for takeoff and high-thrust maneuvers. They are sized for this purpose.

    (e) During cruise, the gas turbine doesn't throttle down massively, to an inefficient, high-SFC regime; it only throttles down to its optimal-SFC thrust, which in this design, of course, happens to be the cruise thrust rating. This means that the advantage, just due to the optimal engine SFC, is an SFC that is only half the cruise SFC of an engine of comparable technology.
    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:44 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:The aircraft design shown here is an extremely efficient design that is mainly enabled by two technologies that the Russians are for the first time publicizing.

    Before I start this brief analysis, I should mention that the aircraft shown here is not supersonic; however, PAK TA may very well be supersonic, but it would then be a different aircraft.

    Analysis in outline form will now follow:

    1- Enabling technology number 1: high-power-to-weight ratio electrical power generation technology. Traditionally, electrical power generation has been a very low-power-to-weight ratio process, especially when you compare it with a high-power-to-weight ratio system like a gas turbine. However, Russians have had high-power-to-weight ratio electrical power generation technologies involving, for example, gas-turbine-integrated magnetohydrodynamic generators, superconductivity, and ...

    2- Enabling technology number 2: high-energy-density electrical energy storage technology. Traditionally, electrical energy storage has been of a low energy per unit mass and of a low energy per unit volume, especially by aviation standards.

    3- Given the enabling technologies "1" and "2", an extremely efficient aircraft design, like the aircraft shown, can be developed, using only one gas turbine engine.

    4- This is how it works:

    (a) During cruise, a highly efficient subsonic aircraft only needs one-fifth of its takeoff thrust; therefore, during cruise, a large part of its installed thrust gets wasted; aditionally, the engine cruise SFC (specific fuel consumption) is double the takeoff SFC.

    (b) The single gas turbine charges the batteries before the take off.

    (c) During the takeoff, the large takeoff thrust is generated cooperatively by the batteries and the gas turbine.

    (d) The batteries only store energy for takeoff and high-thrust maneuvers. They are sized for this purpose.

    (e) During cruise, the gas turbine doesn't throttle down massively, to an inefficient, high-SFC regime; it only throttles down to its optimal-SFC thrust, which in this design, of course, happens to be the cruise thrust rating. This means that the advantage, just due to the optimal engine SFC, is an SFC that is only half the cruise SFC of an engine of comparable technology.

    I should add another aspect to the analysis:

    In terms of engine-out capability, the aircraft shown is not like a single engine aircraft. The reason is as follows:

    1- If during takeoff a gas turbine failure occurs, the batteries driving the two electrically driven fans provide reasonable engine-out capability.

    2- After climb-out, before throttling down to the engine's optimal SFC regime, the aircraft uses the marginal excess thrust of the gas turbine to again fully charge the batteries.

    3- If during cruise a gas turbine failure occurs, the two electrically driven fans will switch to the batteries, providing reasonable engine-out capability.
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    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:25 pm

    That advanced transport aircraft model was made by Alexey Komarov, a graduate of Moscow’s Stroganov University of the Arts and Industry, received a special prize for his concept of a transport aircraft of the future.

    Well i say it has no relationship with real PAK-TA.
    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:55 pm

    Another aspect of the design of the aircraft shown is it's stealth capabilities.

    Low acoustic signature is useful for a transport aircraft that is performing paradrops. This aircraft can shutdown or idle its gas turbine engine and rely only on the batteries in the airdrop zone, reducing its acoustic signature substantially.
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:47 pm

    PAK-DA ....maybe, at least some elements possibly.

    The video is probably some sort of concept for a future high tech transport.

    PAK-TA will IMO be a more conventional design.

    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 Th_77889_FutureTRansport_122_346lo
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:30 am

    Cyberspec wrote:PAK-DA ....maybe, at least some elements possibly.

    The video is probably some sort of concept for a future high tech transport.

    PAK-TA will IMO be a more conventional design.

    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 Th_77889_FutureTRansport_122_346lo
    Pity, it would have been a very interesting aircraft that would above all put the Americans to shame. Cool
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    Post  2SPOOKY4U on Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:41 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:PAK-DA ....maybe, at least some elements possibly.

    The video is probably some sort of concept for a future high tech transport.

    PAK-TA will IMO be a more conventional design.

    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 Th_77889_FutureTRansport_122_346lo
    Pity, it would have been a very interesting aircraft that would above all put the Americans to shame. Cool

    It is no shame, Russia gets a new transport aircraft that is good for them. Why would they spend so much time and money just to have some of the coolest transport?

    If it airdrops, it airdrops, if it delivers, it delivers. And what really matters is that it can be bought in large numbers. We might be seeing the world's first air lift able blitzkrieg force.
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    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:45 am

    Cyberspec wrote:PAK-DA ....maybe, at least some elements possibly.

    The video is probably some sort of concept for a future high tech transport.

    PAK-TA will IMO be a more conventional design.

    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 Th_77889_FutureTRansport_122_346lo

    Yes, the video was dated from 2014 design contest for "future cargo aircraft"

    http://www.transportjournal.com/en/home/heavylift-breakbulk/artikeldetail/giant-cargo-planes-of-the-future.html

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:57 am

    BTW, is it mere coincidence that the ambitious required attributes for the PAK-TA were announced only right after Russia unilaterally pulled out of the CFE treaty? Also could there possibly be secret financing from the Chinese side under the guise of the announced wide-body aircraft cooperation?
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    Post  Werewolf on Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:06 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:PAK-DA ....maybe, at least some elements possibly.

    The video is probably some sort of concept for a future high tech transport.

    PAK-TA will IMO be a more conventional design.

    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 Th_77889_FutureTRansport_122_346lo
    Pity, it would have been a very interesting aircraft that would above all put the Americans to shame. Cool

    An-225 already puts every other transporter to shame.
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    Post  Werewolf on Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:10 am

    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 0_11558f_e1863bb4_orig
    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 0_115591_45473b9_orig
    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 0_115592_5b3aaf28_orig

    http://otvaga2004.ru/armiya-i-vpk/armiya-i-vpk-concept/perspektivnyj-transp-samolet/

    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:28 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    An-225 already puts every other transporter to shame.

    Well, Antonov is Ukraine now.
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    Post  zg18 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:50 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:Well, Antonov is Ukraine now.

    Rotting in Ukraine now is better , unfortunate description of situation with Antonov KB...
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:12 am

    2SPOOKY4U wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:PAK-DA ....maybe, at least some elements possibly.

    The video is probably some sort of concept for a future high tech transport.

    PAK-TA will IMO be a more conventional design.

    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 Th_77889_FutureTRansport_122_346lo
    Pity, it would have been a very interesting aircraft that would above all put the Americans to shame. Cool

    It is no shame, Russia gets a new transport aircraft that is good for them. Why would they spend so much time and money just to have some of the coolest transport?

    If it airdrops, it airdrops, if it delivers, it delivers. And what really matters is that it can be bought in large numbers. We might be seeing the world's first air lift able blitzkrieg force.

    Well this is vague, who do you mean by "they"

    If Russia: Well considering the current situation with Russia's lack of future super-heavy weight transport aircraft that FP made clear on page one Post n°8, it would be in Russia's best interest to invest in such a project.

    If U.S: Cause America must always be number one (#1)

    And who says this thing can't be produced in large number, remember this is Russia not the U.S.

    Werewolf wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:PAK-DA ....maybe, at least some elements possibly.

    The video is probably some sort of concept for a future high tech transport.

    PAK-TA will IMO be a more conventional design.

    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 Th_77889_FutureTRansport_122_346lo
    Pity, it would have been a very interesting aircraft that would above all put the Americans to shame. Cool

    An-225 already puts every other transporter to shame.

    You know better than that WW, the Americans will say:

    1) Ooh, that was a special case, cause only one was made.

    2) That was made during Soviet times, Russia doesn't has the ability to make those anymore.

    3) That was made by Antonov a Ukrainian company, without Ukraine Russia can't make aircraft like those anymore.

    Russia needs something that can wipe Americas smugness of the face of the earth.


    Last edited by AlfaT8 on Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:16 am; edited 1 time in total
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:15 am

    Yeah, there is always the boring option...

    The primary focus is to build a new family of Russian planes so that the Ukrainian planes can be retired or sold off, and we know how conservative the military can be.

    Although the advanced concept might be from a graphical artist it is cosponsored by the Volga Dneipr transport company so it is not just very advanced fan art.

    The main difference I suspect would be a twin engined model for the 80 ton aircraft to replace the An-22, a 4 engine model for the 150 ton payload model to replace the An-124, and a six engined model in the 250 ton payload range to replace the An-225.

    With the Il-476 in the 60 ton payload range, the MTA in the 20 ton payload range, the Il-112 in the 6 ton payload range and the Ryashok replacing the An-2 at the bottom end that means Antonov would be out of the Russian arms market altogether...
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    Post  Mike E on Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:53 am

    She's a looker for sure. I mean come on... Why did they have to design that looks so good? Just gets our hopes up. 

    I agree with Garry. They will stick with the boring albeit more practical solution for now, with a PAK-FA family possibly coming sometime thereafter.
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    Post  mutantsushi on Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:07 am

    Well this meme seems overblown, applying pseudo-official acronyms to a program with no known funding or timeline,
    re-using academic sci-fi graphics presented as being of a real program. The depicted aircraft has quite a few issues squaring
    with it's claimed attributes, namely wing sweep and the fans themselves, which would grossly impede any supersonic flight...
    So as a whole it seems a bit of Russia Strong farce, bandying global-strategic repercussions from hodgepodge of technical BS.

    Were the fans able to be removed from the air-flow, e.g. by covering them up in an aerodynamic manner, then one could "talk",
    but the concept doesn't seem to even superficially address that issue when it would be central to such a combo of supersonic+large net area fan(s).
    Disregarding the supersonic issue, electric linked fans are being globally considered as means for "ultra high bypass" in civil widebodies etc,
    using multiple electric linked fans of moderate diameter to avoid the issue of ever-increasing fan diameter...
    The 'energy storage' of course being electric energy storage to maximally leverage the fans during take-off/ high thrust scenarios.
    That sort of power concept seems more than plausible for the mooted RU-CN widebody project, with a potential 2nd stage/re-engine
    timeline for the power system possibly offering enough efficiency boost to take a short-medium scoped widebody to long-range widebody...?
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    Post  Mike E on Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:18 am

    mutantsushi wrote:Well this meme seems overblown, applying pseudo-official acronyms to a program with no known funding or timeline,
    re-using academic sci-fi graphics presented as being of a real program.  The depicted aircraft has quite a few issues squaring
    with it's claimed attributes, namely wing sweep and the fans themselves, which would grossly impede any supersonic flight...
    So as a whole it seems a bit of Russia Strong farce, bandying global-strategic repercussions from hodgepodge of technical BS.

    Were the fans able to be removed from the air-flow, e.g. by covering them up in an aerodynamic manner, then one could "talk",
    but the concept doesn't seem to even superficially address that issue when it would be central to such a combo of supersonic+large net area fan(s).
    Disregarding the supersonic issue, electric linked fans are being globally considered as means for "ultra high bypass" in civil widebodies etc,
    using multiple electric linked fans of moderate diameter to avoid the issue of ever-increasing fan diameter...
    The 'energy storage' of course being electric energy storage to maximally leverage the fans during take-off/ high thrust scenarios.
    That sort of power concept seems more than plausible for the mooted RU-CN widebody project, with a potential 2nd stage/re-engine
    timeline for the power system possibly offering enough efficiency boost to take a short-medium scoped widebody to long-range widebody...?
    Hence why it is just an unofficial concept. The guy behind it added what he thought may be innovative, and those innovations obviously had to come with drawbacks.
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    Post  max steel on Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:52 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    2SPOOKY4U wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:PAK-DA ....maybe, at least some elements possibly.

    The video is probably some sort of concept for a future high tech transport.

    PAK-TA will IMO be a more conventional design.

    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 Th_77889_FutureTRansport_122_346lo
    Pity, it would have been a very interesting aircraft that would above all put the Americans to shame. Cool

    It is no shame, Russia gets a new transport aircraft that is good for them. Why would they spend so much time and money just to have some of the coolest transport?

    If it airdrops, it airdrops, if it delivers, it delivers. And what really matters is that it can be bought in large numbers. We might be seeing the world's first air lift able blitzkrieg force.

    Well this is vague, who do you mean by "they"

    If Russia: Well considering the current situation with Russia's lack of future super-heavy weight transport aircraft that FP made clear on page one Post n°8, it would be in Russia's best interest to invest in such a project.

    If U.S: Cause America must always be number one (#1)

    And who says this thing can't be produced in large number, remember this is Russia not the U.S.



    An-225 already puts every other transporter to shame.

    You know better than that WW, the Americans will say:

    1) Ooh, that was a special case, cause only one was made.

    2) That was made during Soviet times, Russia doesn't has the ability to make those anymore.

    3) That was made by Antonov a Ukrainian company, without Ukraine Russia can't make aircraft like those anymore.

    Russia needs something that can wipe Americas smugness of the face of the earth.[/quote]



    hahaha true words .
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:03 am

    In a sense it is much like the F-35 in that it has a fan linked to the main engine to provide extra thrust on take off... of course there are some fundamental differences like the F-35 uses the fans for vertical thrust to take off vertically, whereas this aircraft uses them for short takeoffs and probable isn't mechanically linked to the main engines... it might use electrical power take off to power the electric motors rather than batteries which are heavy and just dead weight for the entire flight... the same thing that made VSTOL aircraft like the Yak-141 less efficient with two vertically mounted jet engines being dead weight for the entire flight.

    Having said that a light metal screen over the large fan intakes could be designed so that supersonic speed air flows over them rather than through them so that later on when engine technology improves and variable cycle engines from turbojet to turbofan to scramjet could allow an aircraft with a higher wing sweep fly faster.

    I personally don't see the value in hypersonic transport aircraft, or even supersonic transport aircraft, but the flying wing design is certainly more aerodynamic than the more familiar designs we are used to and their much wider shape would allow a bigger range of bigger items to be transported safely.

    Reminds me a bit of that green cargo pod carrying Thunderbird... but even cooler.

    At take off and landing the high volume of dense air blowing through the fan system should make landing and takeoff speeds much lower and greatly improve low speed handling performance.

    This would be very important for such large aircraft.

    I rather suspect that with two engines in the small model and 6 in the biggest there would not be any need for batteries for the electric fans as they could be powered by takeoff power from the engines. For engine out landings with a fully loaded transport plane you are pretty much screwed... even with an optimum shape the enormous weights it will operate it will not be very manageable with just the fan engines and will likely drop like a brick.

    Perhaps as an option you could design a light truck with a huge battery pack that you could drive onto the aircraft and plug in to power the fans when operating at lighter weights where landing by fans only would be survivable, but keeping heavy batteries in the aircraft all the time would reduce its efficiency without greatly improving survival potential as the aircraft should have at least two engines anyway and once it has taken off it should be OK with just one engine to be able to fly around and land safely.

    I should point out that the engines on aircraft rarely operate at full thrust all the time and transport aircraft only really use full power for take off. Most of the time they just idle... a good example is the engines in the Il-76... the PS-90A  which produces 16 tons of thrust at max power rating at sea level at take off, while its power rating at mach 0.8 at 11,000m, which is its cruise height and speed is 3.5 tons cruise rating.

    This means that if it never had to take off it could probably safely cruise around with just one engine at mach 0.6 or so.

    Having electric fans greatly increases the mass of air pushing the aircraft forward.

    You know better than that WW, the Americans will say:

    1) Ooh, that was a special case, cause only one was made.

    2) That was made during Soviet times, Russia doesn't has the ability to make those anymore.

    3) That was made by Antonov a Ukrainian company, without Ukraine Russia can't make aircraft like those anymore.

    Russia needs something that can wipe Americas smugness of the face of the earth.

    Only one was made because only one was needed to ferry large components from where they were made in the Soviet Union to where they were needed in the Soviet Union.

    They were made because they were needed by the Soviet Space industry. Now the Russian Space Industry wants them.

    There is no reason why Russia can't make them now... and Antonov himself was Russian... the Soviets had a policy of spreading the work around so that all the high tech stuff was not all in Russia. This eventually bit them in the ass, but they are now correcting that. Before the US built the space shuttle the US couldn't build space shuttles?

    Rockwell in the US designed and built the US Space Shuttles.... now that they are defunct as a company I guess despite Boeing buying up their aerospace assets that the US can't make space craft any more?
    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:45 am

    mutantsushi wrote:Well this meme seems overblown, applying pseudo-official acronyms to a program with no known funding or timeline,
    re-using academic sci-fi graphics presented as being of a real program.  The depicted aircraft has quite a few issues squaring
    with it's claimed attributes, namely wing sweep and the fans themselves, which would grossly impede any supersonic flight...
    So as a whole it seems a bit of Russia Strong farce, bandying global-strategic repercussions from hodgepodge of technical BS.

    Were the fans able to be removed from the air-flow, e.g. by covering them up in an aerodynamic manner, then one could "talk",
    but the concept doesn't seem to even superficially address that issue when it would be central to such a combo of supersonic+large net area fan(s).
    Disregarding the supersonic issue, electric linked fans are being globally considered as means for "ultra high bypass" in civil widebodies etc,
    using multiple electric linked fans of moderate diameter to avoid the issue of ever-increasing fan diameter...
    The 'energy storage' of course being electric energy storage to maximally leverage the fans during take-off/ high thrust scenarios.
    That sort of power concept seems more than plausible for the mooted RU-CN widebody project, with a potential 2nd stage/re-engine
    timeline for the power system possibly offering enough efficiency boost to take a short-medium scoped widebody to long-range widebody...?

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t3891p30-pak-ta-russian-special-purpose-transport-aircraft#84249

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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:59 pm

    FWIW there were actually TWO An-225 Mriya's planned, but one was abandoned mid-build when the USSR broke up. There has been talk about finishing the 2nd unit and making it available for super-heavy lifts but nothing has ever come of it.
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    AlfaT8

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    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 Empty Re: PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft

    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:In a sense it is much like the F-35 in that it has a fan linked to the main engine to provide extra thrust on take off... of course there are some fundamental differences like the F-35 uses the fans for vertical thrust to take off vertically, whereas this aircraft uses them for short takeoffs and probable isn't mechanically linked to the main engines... it might use electrical power take off to power the electric motors rather than batteries which are heavy and just dead weight for the entire flight... the same thing that made VSTOL aircraft like the Yak-141 less efficient with two vertically mounted jet engines being dead weight for the entire flight.

    Yes, batteries would definitely pose a dead weight issue, perhaps some sort of heavy duty capacitor would be more beneficial, not sure, since i am not really certain how the the engine is suppose to deliver the power.

    Having said that a light metal screen over the large fan intakes could be designed so that supersonic speed air flows over them rather than through them so that later on when engine technology improves and variable cycle engines from turbojet to turbofan to scramjet could allow an aircraft with a higher wing sweep fly faster.

    Hmmm.... i guess i can see this working in higher altitudes where the air is thinner.

    I personally don't see the value in hypersonic transport aircraft, or even supersonic transport aircraft, but the flying wing design is certainly more aerodynamic than the more familiar designs we are used to and their much wider shape would allow a bigger range of bigger items to be transported safely.

    Hypersonic is definitely out of the question and supersonic is a future prospect i guess if it's really necessary.

    Reminds me a bit of that green cargo pod carrying Thunderbird... but even cooler.

    Yep, definitely cooler then this.
    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 ?u=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa3%2FThunderbird2.jpg%2F250px-Thunderbird2

    At take off and landing the high volume of dense air blowing through the fan system should make landing and takeoff speeds much lower and greatly improve low speed handling performance.

    This would be very important for such large aircraft.

    I rather suspect that with two engines in the small model and 6 in the biggest there would not be any need for batteries for the electric fans as they could be powered by takeoff power from the engines. For engine out landings with a fully loaded transport plane you are pretty much screwed... even with an optimum shape the enormous weights it will operate it will not be very manageable with just the fan engines and will likely drop like a brick.

    You bring up some interesting things here:

    1) Would this thing even be allowed to fly, considering Russia's policy on 2 engined aircraft, would those electric fans qualify.

    2) The possibility of making the design universal, as in a small, medium and heavy version based with each sharing nearly identical designs/components.

    Perhaps as an option you could design a light truck with a huge battery pack that you could drive onto the aircraft and plug in to power the fans when operating at lighter weights where landing by fans only would be survivable, but keeping heavy batteries in the aircraft all the time would reduce its efficiency without greatly improving survival potential as the aircraft should have at least two engines anyway and once it has taken off it should be OK with just one engine to be able to fly around and land safely.

    The truck thing doesn't solve the dead weight issue and creates a dead space issue which for a cargo aircraft is unacceptable.

    Only one was made because only one was needed to ferry large components from where they were made in the Soviet Union to where they were needed in the Soviet Union.

    Exactly

    They were made because they were needed by the Soviet Space industry. Now the Russian Space Industry wants them.

    Really, more AN-225.

    There is no reason why Russia can't make them now... and Antonov himself was Russian... the Soviets had a policy of spreading the work around so that all the high tech stuff was not all in Russia. This eventually bit them in the ass, but they are now correcting that.

    Correct, but an American wouldn't know that, they would look up the name Antonov see that it's in Ukraine and automatically assume that Russia no longer has the ability to develop such aircraft becuase they no longer have Antonov.

    Before the US built the space shuttle the US couldn't build space shuttles?

    ???

    Rockwell in the US designed and built the US Space Shuttles.... now that they are defunct as a company I guess despite Boeing buying up their aerospace assets that the US can't make space craft any more?

    Good rebuttal.
    Flanky
    Flanky

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    PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft - Page 2 Empty Re: PAK-TA Special Purpose Transport aircraft

    Post  Flanky on Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:04 pm

    I personally think that they made a mistake of going public with this project. US will have enough chance to adapt.
    Such projects are best to be presented to public 5 minutes before twelve.
    Russians have choosen to not have too many bases arround the world to not look like an empire, but to have a global fast reaction force.
    Smart decision. Its meant to serve a detterent purpose from those like USA to measure twice before they will decide to invade a sovereign nation flagrantly.
    My first impressions were just like Garrys... that the PAK-TA design is somehow connected to PAK-DA. But i guess thoose huge engine inlets are not...
    Anyway since Russians do not have too many warm seaports this is a natural choice to have.... having a fleet of these beauties will take some time, but once that is done... the only thing that might beat that capability is a global strike programme. This is a program both countries are having strides in...

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