PAK-TA Supersonic Transport aircraft

WELL WHAT TO SAY !  


Future Russian army could deploy anywhere in the world – in 7 hours        


7,000-km-range supersonic plane delivering 400 next-gen tanks - details of secret Russian military 'PAK TA' program leaked   . A beautiful design somewhat looking like B-2 yankee bomber .  



http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/3b/1b/10/00/uggjffkou8q.si.jpg



http://rt.com/news/242097-pak-ta-russian-army/

it is just an artist concept, and maybe remain as that forever

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150319/1019742286.html

A fleet of 80 such aircraft will be built by 2024 and will be capable of transferring 400 Armata heavy missile tanks or 900 light armored vehicles to the American continent or Australia in 7-8 hours.
Indian Air Force (IAF) Sukhoi Su-30 fighter aircraft flies past during a parade at an airbase in Tezpur, India, Friday, Nov. 21 2014
© AP PHOTO/ ANUPAM NATH
Russian Arms Sales Top $15.5 Billion for 2014 Despite Sanctions' Impact
MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Russia plans to build a fleet of supersonic military transport aircraft with an unprecedented payload of 220 tons capable of deploying a full-fledged armored army to anywhere in the world in seven hours, Expert Online reported Thursday.
A fleet of 80 such aircraft, dubbed PAK TA, will be built by 2024 and will be capable of transferring 400 Armata heavy missile tanks or 900 light armored vehicles with ammunition to the American continent or Australia in 7-8 hours, according to the media outlet, which cited a military source who attended a closed meeting of the Military-Industrial Commission in Moscow.

Tupolev TU-95
© FLICKR/ GREG BISHOP
Russian Strategic Bombers Conduct Drills in Arctic Circle
"For your understanding, one flight of the [PAK TA aircraft] fleet will be enough to deploy, say, to Cuba an operational and tactical army unit comparable to the total amount of US and NATO forces in Iraq," Expert Online quoted the source as saying.
One PAK TA aircraft can transport five heavy missile tanks, anti-aircraft missile complexes, multiple launch missile systems, and anti-tank missile fighting vehicles, without refueling a distance of 4,350 miles, the source elaborated.

Expert Online added that the ambitious PAK TA project will include a family of medium to super-heavy aircraft.

The heaviest of the aircraft will significantly exceed the carrying threshold of the existing Antonov An-124 Ruslan, an aircraft with up to 165 tons payload.

Firebird wrote:

George1 wrote:it is just an artist concept, and maybe remain as that forever

Correct. The concept pics are done by an artist. Albeit one of them was at Volga-Dnieper freight.

But a supersonic cargo jet wouldn't be hard. Just look at what was being produced with the Tu144 and Tu160.

There are also huge hypersonic plane plans from the 80s, 70s and even 50s and 60s.

Naturally the 2000kph variant would come first. Its not a big leap for Russia in tech terms. But its beyond  everyone else except America to produce economically.

So I wonder what Russia's geopolitical views are on this.
I wonder what would happen if America tried to invade Cuba, which is still important for any strategic defence of Russia. Remember America planned to frame Cuba for shooting down an airliner, with a false flag operation.

This PAK TA could prevent something like an invasion of Cuba or Venezuela, and mean Russia could wield immense power in guaranteeing the indepedence of nations around the World.
Currently, it can only really do that with nukes.

A much easier idea would be to give the Cuban's and Venezuelan's license and production rights to Pantsir-S1 and Antey-2500 and the missiles, and develop a cheap mass produced trailers that can be towed with the Antey-2500 units and launch Antey missiles under a Antey-2500 command post, but without all the expensive components. So Cuba and Venezuela could have 5 batteries of Antey-2500 and have hundreds of trailers that can be towed or carried by a semi-truck. You could have a special trailer for Pantsir missiles that could towed on a semi-truck trailer with several dozen Pantsir missiles, and a 57 mm gun system to assist in SHORAD.

Sounds like a priority project for Russia

The retirement of the An-22 Cock class is imminent. Russia has nothing to replace it in the 70-90 ton payload class. It can make do for now with its An-124 fleet but ultimately a replacement must be found.
The main alternative is a revival of the Il-106 project; however this is a 90s project that has been forgotten and would have to be redrawn, and subsequently developed essentially from scratch. Is it worthwhile?

The retirement of the An-124 fleet I'm guessing will come sometime in the 2020s. Perhaps they can keep on trucking a 'lil longer, till the early 2030s, but again, it's clear that the 80s built An-124 fleet won't last for too much longer and a replacement must be found for the +100 ton class
The plan was to start up production of An-124s with the Ukraine, but with the Ukraine crisis this is now in jeapordy. Theoretically, it could still be possible to secure enough of the freefalling Antonov enterprise, to be able to go at it alone; however this depends on many variables, and the Ukrainian regime could still create problems with Russia by means of patents, legal rights and so on.
The An-124 is an effective, but old design that can possibly be replaced with something more efficient.

The An-225 was a one-off for the Soviet space program, and officially speaking there haven't been any military requirements for a transport plane with a capacity of this size.
However, the heavy use and contracting of this plane by militaries world-wide show that there is definately a niche for such aircraft. Moreover, armour and vehicle weight has been steadily increasing for the last several decades. With the introduction of the Armata, Kurganets and Bumerang families, each on average heavier than the MBT, BMP and BTR models respectively that preceeded them, it is worth re-examining a possible role for super-heavy transport aircraft in the Russian Air Force.

A unified transport aircraft family, that will be able to replace the An-22, An-124 and An-225 all at once, is very much a desirable option, and though the cost of development may be large, ultimately it would prove cheaper than having to develop a seperate Il-106 project, restart An-124 production and then figure out a seperate solution later on for the super-heavy class, if it proves neccessary.

At the moment I think all talk of supersonic, or hypersonic transport aircraft is fantasy, but it should certainly not be ruled out for the future, when propulsion technologies have reached a higher level of maturity.
For now, the development of a subsonic transport aircraft family with the possibility for redesign for greater speeds in the coming decades, would seem a most prudent course.

A whole new project would also open the door for multination cooperation on its development; at least on the level of funding and research.
In no particular order, I can easily imagine the interest of China, India, Brazil, Argentina & Indonesia in such a project.

max steel wrote: WELL WHAT TO SAY !  


Future Russian army could deploy anywhere in the world – in 7 hours        


7,000-km-range supersonic plane delivering 400 next-gen tanks - details of secret Russian military 'PAK TA' program leaked   . A beautiful design somewhat looking like B-2 yankee bomber .  



http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/3b/1b/10/00/uggjffkou8q.si.jpg



http://rt.com/news/242097-pak-ta-russian-army/

Sensationalism aside, the ducted fans on the wings/hull of that aircraft is an absolutely insane design.  It's actually using the engine's thrust to force air over the control surfaces to produced a high amount of vectored thrust without adding additional moving parts. The artists/engineers behind this concept aircraft have some amazing talent. I really hope civilian/military transports are this beautiful in the near future.

flamming_python wrote:Sounds like a priority project for Russia

The retirement of the An-22 Cock class is imminent. Russia has nothing to replace it in the 70-90 ton payload class. It can make do for now with its An-124 fleet but ultimately a replacement must be found.
The main alternative is a revival of the Il-106 project; however this is a 90s project that has been forgotten and would have to be redrawn, and subsequently developed essentially from scratch. Is it worthwhile?

The retirement of the An-124 fleet I'm guessing will come sometime in the 2020s. Perhaps they can keep on trucking a 'lil longer, till the early 2030s, but again, it's clear that the 80s built An-124 fleet won't last for too much longer and a replacement must be found for the +100 ton class
The plan was to start up production of An-124s with the Ukraine, but with the Ukraine crisis this is now in jeapordy. Theoretically, it could still be possible to secure enough of the freefalling Antonov enterprise, to be able to go at it alone; however this depends on many variables, and the Ukrainian regime could still create problems with Russia by means of patents, legal rights and so on.
The An-124 is an effective, but old design that can possibly be replaced with something more efficient.

The An-225 was a one-off for the Soviet space program, and officially speaking there haven't been any military requirements for a transport plane with a capacity of this size.
However, the heavy use and contracting of this plane by militaries world-wide show that there is definately a niche for such aircraft. Moreover, armour and vehicle weight has been steadily increasing for the last several decades. With the introduction of the Armata, Kurganets and Bumerang families, each on average heavier than the MBT, BMP and BTR models respectively that preceeded them, it is worth re-examining a possible role for super-heavy transport aircraft in the Russian Air Force.

A unified transport aircraft family, that will be able to replace the An-22, An-124 and An-225 all at once, is very much a desirable option, and though the cost of development may be large, ultimately it would prove cheaper than having to develop a seperate Il-106 project, restart An-124 production and then figure out a seperate solution later on for the super-heavy class, if it proves neccessary.

At the moment I think all talk of supersonic, or hypersonic transport aircraft is fantasy, but it should certainly not be ruled out for the future, when propulsion technologies have reached a higher level of maturity.
For now, the development of a subsonic transport aircraft family with the possibility for redesign for greater speeds in the coming decades, would seem a most prudent course.

A whole new project would also open the door for multination cooperation on its development; at least on the level of funding and research.
In no particular order, I can easily imagine the interest of China, India, Brazil, Argentina & Indonesia in such a project.

Agreed 100%, +1.  Its the age of the An-22/124 fleet and the absurdity of planning any replacements/upgrades around the Ukr goose-steppers that provide the strategic drivers for such a program.  Its a real shame as in many ways Antonov was one of the great jewels in the crown of Soviet aerospace industry that ended up on the wrong side of the border and has suffered accordingly (same for Yuznoye/Yuzmash).

More generally, the recent geo-political hostility displayed by the US and the gutless acquiescence by the Euro-vassal states has reaffirmed how vital it is for Russia to have indigenous capabilities for all strategic needs incl defense, aviation, shipbuilding, power systems & propulsion, rocketry & space systems, electronics & sensors, oil & gas exploration/production  etc etc.  Any reliance on foreign suppliers which can be subject to aggressive sanctions needs to be overcome by large scale public investments in the relevant industries. Turbine powerplants and helicopter engines to replace Ukr-sourced units are obvious (and topical) instances, but there are many more, and they all need to go.

I hope this design gets implemented. Time to move on in terms of aircraft design. A lifting body concept is superior to
anything currently available.

Check out the butthurt response by western "journalists":

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-next-generation-transport-plane-2015-3

The only thing absurd are the two retarded clowns who wrote this troll piece and the clowns that hired them.

kvs wrote:I hope this design gets implemented.  Time to move on in terms of aircraft design.   A lifting body concept is superior to
anything currently available.  

Check out the butthurt response by western "journalists":

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-next-generation-transport-plane-2015-3

The only thing absurd are the two retarded clowns who wrote this troll piece and the clowns that hired them.

Haha i can't stop laughing.

According to Kremlin propaganda outfit RT citing...

The biggest propagandists the anglosucksons are calling others to be propaganda spreader...seriously the pot calling the kettle black.

Actually a few aircraft have air piped from the engines to the flaps... the technical term is "blown flaps"... it is usually taken from the cool section at the front of the engine and is applied to aircraft that need to operate from short runways...

Actually if we look carefully perhaps we are seeing what PAK DA might look like too... imagine splitting the design into two categories... bomber and transport, where the transport comes in three scaled sizes of say 80 tons, 130 tons, and 200 tons, though it would be useful for the 200 ton payload capacity model to be able to carry large external loads like fuel tanks for super heavy space launch systems.

With the Bomber branch you could have the strategic bomber with a 9 to 15 ton payload and the rest of the payload fuel for extended flight range while a theater bomber with a heavy payload of perhaps 50-60 tons and reduced fuel for operations over Europe and Asia.

You could even add maritime patrol aircraft, inflight refuelling aircraft, AWACS and JSTARs like aircraft and of course civilian passenger aircraft.

I rather suspect even supersonic flight would be out of the question initially... just because the engine requirements, though the blown flaps concept is interesting to increase takeoff power/performance...

I find this very exciting as there were clear gaps in the transport inventory with the An-22 soon to leave service and the An-124 an excellent aircraft but it wont last forever...

damn, imagine the export demand for these things- jack up the price to even c-17 levels and it will still sell like hotcakes

They finally uploaded the Vimeo vid on youtube.

Count on GarryB to guess at a connection between the PAK-DA and PAK-TA. +1 for that

kvs wrote:I hope this design gets implemented.  Time to move on in terms of aircraft design.   A lifting body concept is superior to
anything currently available.  

Check out the butthurt response by western "journalists":

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-next-generation-transport-plane-2015-3

The only thing absurd are the two retarded clowns who wrote this troll piece and the clowns that hired them.

Ooh well since it's been a while.

Russia's proposed new military transport will be a behemoth of an aircraft — assuming such a plane can even fly and Russia is even vaguely serious about actually building it.

I wonder what these two nitwits would say about the B2 or the B-49 before that.

According to the Kremlin propaganda outfit RT, citing design specifications from Russia's Military-Industrial Commission, the new PAK TA transport will have the improbable ability to achieve supersonic flight while carrying massive payloads. The Kremlin plans to acquire 80 PAK TAs by 2024.

"Propaganda outfit" really, considering the so-called journalism the "NON-propaganda" outfits of the west demonstrated and continue to demonstrate from 2001 through 2003 and even now and in this very article, i think i'll stick with the "Propaganda outfit".

Supersonic flight is still up in the air,..... for now.

But until prototypes of the plane are built and begin flying, there is no telling how well the plane will actually perform or if it is even practical.  

Considering the current situation with Russia's lack of future super-heavy lift aircraft (which these two idiots clearly aren't even aware of), it would be very practical for Russia to invest in this project and as for performance, it looks like it's gonna be very impressive.

Russia's fifth-generation fighter, the T-50, has run into design problems. According to the Indian Air Force, the joint Indian-Russian variant of the T-50 still has numerous stealth and engine problems even at a late stage in its development.

Ok, first of, i wasn't even aware the (2 seater) FGFA was already in flight testing?

Second, the article they're quoting links to an old Business Insider or BI article that links to a Business Standard or BS article.
There complaints are:
1) Russia's reluctance to share critical design information with India.
The article doesn't really clarify what design info they're bitching about, just some gibberish about radar coverage.

2)The fighter's current AL-41F1 (117) engines are inadequate, being mere upgrades of the Sukhoi-30MKI's AL-31 engines.
For some reason, an upgrade of one of the more reliable and proven engines in Russia is suddenly "inadequate" cuzz it's a "mere upgrade" (to say nothing of the AL-31 being from the SU-27 not MKI) again these guys need to specify WTF they're bitching about.

3) It is too expensive.
What do they expect for 5th gen FFS, anyway now that the Rafale is out they'll have plenty of cash.

4) its stealth features badly engineered.
In what way the stealth is badly engineered is not mentioned anywhere in the article, sound like BS ironically from BS.

5)India's share to low.
In what way??

And the PAK TA presents an even greater challenge. A supersonic plane of its size and cargo capacity — an anticipated 200 tons — could land only on a very long, reinforced runway that may need to be designed specifically for the plane. It would necessitate an astonishingly large fuel load, which would further limit the number of airports from which the aircraft could take off and land. It would also have an enormous wingspan that would make the plane an easy target for enemy forces.

The article brings up some interesting question, how many runways in Russia are capable of handling this bird, the fuel load thing is obvious BS considering it only has one Turbine engine.

On a more basic level, who would entrust 200 tons of cargo aboard such an outlandish, experimental aircraft?

Answer: Everyone, when it's no longer an experimental/prototype aircraft

It would be an astonishing accomplishment if a prototype ever takes the skies — never mind 80 finished planes.

For now, the aircraft is at most an aspiration for Russia. It may also just be a propaganda ploy meant to highlight the Kremlin's modernization drive and create the impression that Russia's military-industrial complex possesses technological capabilities beyond its actual capacity.

Even if the PAK TA may be crude Kremlin psy-ops, the concept art for the new aircraft is still pretty spectacular. Here's what Moscow is claiming about its fanciful superplane of the distant and probably nonexistent future.

"Propaganda ploy" unlikely, considering the PAK-DA is indeed in development and Russia isn't like the U.S who continuously create the impression that there "military-industrial complex possesses technological capabilities beyond its actual capacity".      

Ok, now they're just envious.    

The PAK-TA is being developed by the Russian aviation company Ilyushin.

Ilyushin, that's great, Tupolev got the PAK-DA if Ilyushin gets the PAK-TA it would be great.

The PAK TA's payload capacity is envisioned as being 80 tons more than that of the US' largest cargo plane, the C-5 Galaxy

Hmmm... sources vary, but seems legit around 135 tons for vanilla C-5 close enough and 142 tons for C-5M.

RT estimates that a fleet of PAK TA's could carry 400 T-14 Armata heavy tanks. Left unaddressed is why anyone would risk loading 400 tanks into a fleet this ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous, it's necessary when you're dealing with psychopaths like NATO.

The plane is thought to feature an upper gas turbine as well as twin electrically powered fans. The back of the plane's wings will generate vectored thrust — assuming a single one is ever built.

Truly envious aren't they. 

Difference Between Jealousy and Envy wrote:The main difference between envy and jealousy is that envy is the emotion of coveting what someone else has, while jealousy is the emotion related to fear that something you have will be taken away by someone else.

flamming_python wrote:Sounds like a priority project for Russia

The retirement of the An-22 Cock class is imminent. Russia has nothing to replace it in the 70-90 ton payload class. It can make do for now with its An-124 fleet but ultimately a replacement must be found.
The main alternative is a revival of the Il-106 project; however this is a 90s project that has been forgotten and would have to be redrawn, and subsequently developed essentially from scratch. Is it worthwhile?

The retirement of the An-124 fleet I'm guessing will come sometime in the 2020s. Perhaps they can keep on trucking a 'lil longer, till the early 2030s, but again, it's clear that the 80s built An-124 fleet won't last for too much longer and a replacement must be found for the +100 ton class
The plan was to start up production of An-124s with the Ukraine, but with the Ukraine crisis this is now in jeapordy. Theoretically, it could still be possible to secure enough of the freefalling Antonov enterprise, to be able to go at it alone; however this depends on many variables, and the Ukrainian regime could still create problems with Russia by means of patents, legal rights and so on.
The An-124 is an effective, but old design that can possibly be replaced with something more efficient.

The An-225 was a one-off for the Soviet space program, and officially speaking there haven't been any military requirements for a transport plane with a capacity of this size.
However, the heavy use and contracting of this plane by militaries world-wide show that there is definately a niche for such aircraft. Moreover, armour and vehicle weight has been steadily increasing for the last several decades. With the introduction of the Armata, Kurganets and Bumerang families, each on average heavier than the MBT, BMP and BTR models respectively that preceeded them, it is worth re-examining a possible role for super-heavy transport aircraft in the Russian Air Force.

A unified transport aircraft family, that will be able to replace the An-22, An-124 and An-225 all at once, is very much a desirable option, and though the cost of development may be large, ultimately it would prove cheaper than having to develop a seperate Il-106 project, restart An-124 production and then figure out a seperate solution later on for the super-heavy class, if it proves neccessary.

At the moment I think all talk of supersonic, or hypersonic transport aircraft is fantasy, but it should certainly not be ruled out for the future, when propulsion technologies have reached a higher level of maturity.
For now, the development of a subsonic transport aircraft family with the possibility for redesign for greater speeds in the coming decades, would seem a most prudent course.

A whole new project would also open the door for multination cooperation on its development; at least on the level of funding and research.
In no particular order, I can easily imagine the interest of China, India, Brazil, Argentina & Indonesia in such a project.

Admit it, you just wrote that post for a chance to say An-22 Cock.

That BI article is BS. No one knows of PAK FA's stealth characteristics other than armchair engineers jpeg impressions. Add to that the two seater isnt even flying yet, and an upgraded engine is no different than US methods and wouldnt even be considered a setback. Sounds like people with littleman syndrom.

Regardless of other things, think should be pretty certain that the concept we saw in the video (a pretty darn cool one, yes) is subsonic, not only because of the aerodynamic shape but also those electric fans (one single engine turning two fans with their straight intakes AND the craft to supersonic speed? no way). A supersonic transport imo could indeed look something like a larger Tu-160 with or without VG wings, longer and more slender comparative to this CGI, and supersonic optimized intakes for the super-cruise optimized engines, but obviously payload would be reduced for the same size.

Perhaps the PAK-TA will or will not be built in this form, but the question for the experts would be (and i'm genuinely interested) is this configuration offering better payload, range and cost effectiveness compared to a more orthodox one (like An-124 or An-225)? These are the main parameters for a successful transport isn't it?

Oh and regarding PAK-DA (allegedly subsonic, remember) and it's possible relation to this concept, i remember now i saw one of Paralay's renderings showing an aircraft fairly similar to a B-2 in configuration, but with wing root embedded intakes just like this CGI has for the electric fans!

PS: And also, let's not forget the BWB concept we saw in TsAGIs wind tunnel.