Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Ideas of United European Army

    Share
    avatar
    ATLASCUB

    Posts : 503
    Points : 507
    Join date : 2017-02-13

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  ATLASCUB on Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:48 pm

    Sometimes idiots get ahead of themselves in false sense of joy and stupidly let slip the essence of the truth out...

    We gotta thank that these idiots exist, the likes of John McCain, Lindsey etc.... they shine the path to many blinded sheep. At the very least it helps others wake up the sheep - not all of course - but some of the sheep.

    Napoleon times coming? French minister vows Europe should become ‘EMPIRE’

    Europe shouldn’t be shy of using its power and should become an “empire” like China and the US, France’s finance minister said following Macron’s speech about ‘a European army’ – an idea which was later bashed by Donald Trump.

    “I'm talking about a peaceful empire which is a constitutional state,” Bruno Le Maire, told Handelsblatt newspaper in an interview released on Sunday.

    This empire will be based on the principles of technological, economic, financial, monetary and cultural power. “Europe should no longer be afraid of using its power and [become] an empire of peace.”

    Leaves Russia out as well lmao..... the disrespect!

    More of these idiots will come out as the consensus building process for this E.U Army gains more steam in the coming years. Always a good reminder to some folk who wish to engage in wishful thinking and dangerous naivety. Although you can't fix blindness - that is sadly inoperable.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1959
    Points : 1959
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:44 pm

    This may be the start of break up of NATO:
    http://www.ng.ru/news/632499.html?print=Y
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 19931
    Points : 20483
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:53 am

    Of course NATO can't stand for an EU army... if there was an EU army WTF would they need a NATO army for?

    NATO is an EU army controlled and led by the US...
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 2888
    Points : 2884
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Isos on Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:Of course NATO can't stand for an EU army... if there was an EU army WTF would they need a NATO army for?

    NATO is an EU army controlled and led by the US...


    NATO is 80% US. EU army would be 20% as powerfull as NATO. All the countries in europe would want NATO to protect them insted of EU army.

    Macron thinks he will be te suprem commander because the EU nuks would be french ones and he can rule europe this way. Never gonna happen.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1959
    Points : 1959
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:40 pm

    Italy is sitting on the fence now. Together with France, Spain, Germany, Austria, Poland & Sweden they could form a stronger force even w/o Portugal, Denmark, Finland, & Netherlands. Time will tell!
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4796
    Points : 4955
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:12 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Italy is sitting on the fence now. Together with France, Spain, Germany, Austria, Poland & Sweden they could form a stronger force even w/o Portugal, Denmark, Finland, & Netherlands. Time will tell!

    Well Italy probably more than any European country wants to maintain ties with the Federation, so who knows. Back in the 70's/80's Italy may have been the strongest proponent for NATO, maybe not so much now.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1959
    Points : 1959
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:27 am

    And much to the horror of the US establishment, Macron proposes a real “European army” capable of autonomous self-defense side by side with a “real security dialogue with Russia.” http://www.atimes.com/article/decoding-the-hypersonic-putin-on-a-day-of-remembrance/?utm_source=The+Daily+Report&utm_campaign=097fc9178d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_11_13_12_22&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1f8bca137f-097fc9178d-31607385

    Merkel advocated the creation of a pan-European army
    https://rg.ru/2018/11/13/merkel-vystupila-za-sozdanie-obshcheevropejskoj-armii.html

    Will Germany become a nuclear power?


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:02 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 19931
    Points : 20483
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:56 am

    The irony is that the US pays for NATO because it controls NATO and by that they also control Europe.

    Times are a changing and the US will no longer be the only boss, so the EU needs to decide if it wants to keep being Americas bitch, or if it wants a seat at the table of its own.

    If the world is a wedding then currently Russia and China and India are sitting at the kids table, but at the main table there is only the US with crawlers on the floor scrambling for scraps.

    America has lousy table manners and most of the food ends up on the floor so countries like the UK and EU countries actually are rather well fed by the arrangement as long as they can cope with being on their knees all the time.

    The problem is that the kids are growing up and they don't want on the floor... they want a proper seat... even if they have to leave and create their own wedding...

    The biggest obstacle to a european army was the UK, but they are now leaving the eu so their opinion no longer matters.

    Having a separate eu force means more independence and freedom of operation for the force that can be used for european interests... a bit like the US uses NATO at the moment, but with eu interests in mind rather than american so rather better for the eu.

    It probably wont be cheaper and without US toys it wont be more effective than NATO but it will raise the question of why they need NATO as well as a eu force.

    NATO drags them in to all sorts of conflicts that are really not in europes interests... like the conflict with Russia... and especially the conflict with China.

    China has been working on building multiple trade routes from China to Europe... if the enemy was Russia and China then why are they working together to build all sorts of trade routes from Asia to Europe?

    Why are they spending money on icebreakers to clear a passage via the arctic ocean to transfer goods from China to Europe and back through Russian waters and ports and rail links?

    I can see the US being afraid of China and Russia because cheaper trade between Russia and China and Asia (including Japan and Korea and other Asian nations) and Europe kinda makes the US less competitive, so of course they will depict the Chinese and Russians as the bad guys, but for Micron to claim the enemy is Russia and China.... well why would Russia build those network links all the way to the EU... why not just have them stop at Moscow and St Petersburg... and put enormous tariffs on anything that needs to go to the EU?
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1959
    Points : 1959
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:47 am

    ..but for Micron to claim the enemy is Russia and China..
    It's a clever way to justify the EU force. After it's established & reaches optimal size, they'll claim that there's no need for the US military presence in Europe (mostly Germany).
    New force would show ‘there is never war between the European countries again’
    By extension, that may include Russia.
    With only France & Germany in charge of W/C Europen security, Russia will have less worry about the UK & US pulling the strings.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:01 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1959
    Points : 1959
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:11 am

    As I was saying: Coalition with Russia instead of NATO: Germany’s new plan
    avatar
    ATLASCUB

    Posts : 503
    Points : 507
    Join date : 2017-02-13

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  ATLASCUB on Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:28 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:As I was saying: Coalition with Russia instead of NATO: Germany’s new plan

    I had a good laugh. Thanks for that.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 19931
    Points : 20483
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:42 pm

    The question comes down to independence... does europe want to continue trading primarily with the US where the US calls all the shots and controls the mechanisms by which world trade run, or does it want to increase trade with Asia and become an economic and political and military centre of its own that can make its own rules, and act on its own interests.

    Within NATO it needs americas permission of course for everything...

    Each country of europe has their own military force but individually they are pretty weak and ineffectual... together they become a force that cannot be ignored... even if they have to keep a better eye out for cargo ships in the dark...

    The point is that if it wants to say with america it needs to separate itself from Russia and China.... but Russia and China are making plans to create lots of alternative trade routes from europe to asia... they are anticipating a lot of trade between europe and asia and they are building the infrastructure to support that trade... is europe going to say... thanks but no thanks we will continue to trade with the US instead.

    I am sure Russia wont care... the trade routes they are creating go through Russia from Asia, but as far as they are concerned they can block the routes into europe from their territory and use the easy access to asian economies for themselves and their own products...

    China will be likely a little miffed because the Russians likely wont buy as many chinese products as all of europe would, but if europe wont accept links with Russia it is hardly russias fault...

    I am sure the US will trade with asia... there is money to be made of course... europes loss.
    dino00
    dino00

    Posts : 638
    Points : 683
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Location : portugal

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  dino00 on Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:21 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Italy is sitting on the fence now. Together with France, Spain, Germany, Austria, Poland & Sweden they could form a stronger force even w/o Portugal, Denmark, Finland, & Netherlands. Time will tell!

    Portugal is 100% out every party on the parlement is strongly against!
    There is no chance.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 19931
    Points : 20483
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:57 am

    There is almost zero chance of an EU force... except within the Battlefield 2 game...

    What sort of command structure would it have?

    How would a country like France have French forces for domestic purposes, NATO forces for combined NATO operations and EU forces for unified EU roles... it would be a total mess... who gets the best equipment?

    Having to pay for what would basically be three different military forces would be confusing and wasteful.

    I rather suspect it is more likely to lead to the US pulling out of NATO and NATO collapsing into an EU force and a US/Canada force.

    The cost of the loss of NATO to Europe would be a significant drop in military power, but also much more control, and the freedom to trade with Russia and China and Asia through Russia and the various trade links being set up by China and Russia.

    The cost of continuing to trade with the US will be that they will not be able to use trade links set up and managed by Russia and China so trade with Asia will be more expensive for them... this will give the US competitive advantages with trade to Asia vs the EU...
    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 3240
    Points : 3222
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:14 pm

    This is the ultimate issue of NATO altogether in the end - differences amongst everyone. European Force would face same issue but with even more so in a lack of funding. NATO can afford to use just mercenaries like they currently do (but calls them national forces of each nato nation) while the European Forces wont have such liquidity in funds, especially if the politics are not on the same side.

    NATO is a paper tiger (They play "war games" and try to act tough. But once the missiles fly, most of the countries would fold). This European Force is just paper.
    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1720
    Points : 1715
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:00 pm

    It's worst than that Mike, you forget that we have a plethora of new arrivals that are in need of work.

    So, this "EU" army may not be even be made by actual Europeans.
    Unless your one of those Lefties that believe there's no such thing as Europeans.

    There's a strong chance that this Tiger might just bite it's owner.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1959
    Points : 1959
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:20 pm

    For starters, France may withdraw form NATO military structure again.
    Most of those members r either Germanic or Latin derived speaking, or both, like Belgium & Switzerland, so this new force won't have a problem on ethno-linguistic level. They don't need to be real tigers for defense as Russia will have even less reason to target them after NATO is history.
    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1720
    Points : 1715
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:03 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:For starters, France may withdraw form NATO military structure again.
    Most of those members r either Germanic or Latin derived speaking, or both, like Belgium & Switzerland, so this new force won't have a problem on ethno-linguistic level. They don't need to be real tigers for defense as Russia will have even less reason to target them after NATO is history.

    True, but this EU army is probly not meant to fight Russia, but suppress dissenting EU states.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1959
    Points : 1959
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:50 pm

    And intervene abroad to defend its interests.
    Denmark will loose Greenland & France may loose Fr. Guiana like they lost Iceland, Louisiana, Quebec & Haiti- w/o NATO in Europe, the US & Canada won't tolerate the EU claims & forces there.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1959
    Points : 1959
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:35 am

    Europe declares independence of Trump, Creates Channel for Iran Trade

    They may do a silimilar thing with Venezuela.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 19931
    Points : 20483
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:38 am

    Clearly they think there is money to be made in Iran... whether they also think there is money to be made in Venezuela is another question... the EU seemed happy to follow Trumps lead and declare Guano leader of Venezuela... despite never receiving a single vote from anyone.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:59 am