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    Ideas of United European Army

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    higurashihougi

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    Ideas of United European Army

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:35 am

    http://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1815814

    Finland Prez Sauli Niinistö and Defese Mins Carl Haglund, and Prez of EU Commission Jean-Claude Juncker supported it.

    Don't know whether it is an attempt to break out of US sphere and NATO, or it will be just a puppet of NATO ?
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    Zivo

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Zivo on Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:55 am

    I wouldn't get your hopes up.

    It's probably just an attempt to get EU states to fork over more money for the military. Certain figures in the US think the EU/ NATO peasants have been half-assing it up to this point.
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    George1

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  George1 on Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:40 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:http://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1815814

    Finland Prez Sauli Niinistö and Defese Mins Carl Haglund, and Prez of EU Commission Jean-Claude Juncker supported it.

    Don't know whether it is an attempt to break out of US sphere and NATO, or it will be just a puppet of NATO ?

    i think it is a response towards a common defense policy and engagement capabilities that Europe doesn't have now
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    George1

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  George1 on Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:54 pm

    Here is another view:

    Idea of Creating Pan-European Army Targets Russia – German Opposition

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    GarryB

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:22 am

    What happened to all that crap about Russia being a friend and NATO and Europe was not Russias enemy...

    Maybe they just saw the Euro force in the Battlefield series of computer games and thought it would be a good idea...

    Either way, it wont change things very much so I hope they do piss away some more money on something they don't need and may never use... Just sad that that includes their brains.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:20 am

    That is nothing else but a construct from Washington. They see europeans are not so eager to fight a war against russia, because they already know shadowy it is US that wants this war, so they try to create a new PR with an "European mindset Army" to give them the little illusion they are fighting for themselfs. They just try to get european idiots mainly germany and eastern europe like Poland more actively pro-war, since the pussies of americans don't want to fight a suicidal war themselfs, because they could never win that war and they know it so they try to send some weak states of Europe to send against Russia in the hope russia will go conventional on this weaklings and drag the war for decades out.

    Nothing germany does happens ever without knowledge of Pentagon, every german chancelor has to sign the Chancellor Act, that dictates pro-americanism in all speeches and acts as a chancellor and "country".
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    George1

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  George1 on Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:41 pm

    Setting up common EU armed forces may be on agenda of June summit — European Commission

    Jean-Claude Juncker came forward with a proposal for creating the EU’s own army in an interview to the German weekly Welt am Zontag

    BRUSSELS, 9 March. /TASS/. The idea of setting up EU armed forces may be on agenda of the June summit, the European Commission's press service told TASS on Monday.

    The chief of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker came forward with a proposal for creating the EU’s own army in an interview to the German weekly Welt am Zontag.

    "A common European Army would show the world that there will be no more wars among the EU countries. Such an army would enable us to conduct a foreign policy and a policy of security and to become aware of Europe’s responsibility in the world," he said.

    "In the nuclear age extra armies do not provide any additional security. But they surely can play a provocative role," Klintsevich said, adding it was regrettable that such ideas had already met with some support.

    He recalled that the idea of creating a European army had never occurred to anyone even in the years of the acute confrontation between NATO and the Warsaw Treaty Organization.

    "These days, when the Warsaw Treaty is long gone, for some reason there has developed a need for that," he wondered.

    "One should presume that a European army is seen as an addendum to NATO. And in this kind of situation Western politicians are not shy to accuse Russia of some aggressiveness," Klintsevich said.

    Earlier on Sunday German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen voiced support for the idea of creating a common EU army at some future date. She stated that peace in Europe currently relied on a firm platform and the EU member-states ever more often pooled efforts for various purposes, including the enforcement of a common security policy. "The idea of having a (common) European army, in my opinion, has a future," she said.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:53 am

    well... thinking about it a bit more... is this an attempt to exclude the US from European matters that don't really involve the US... like the Ukraine?

    Maybe this is a good thing... in any event... more money spent and most likely taken from NATO rather than added to it...

    In a few years time perhaps they might decide that NATO and an EU force is a duplication and that one has to go... lets hope it is led by the nose by the US NATO that folds... Twisted Evil
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    Walther von Oldenburg

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:09 pm

    I don't know what they actually mean by "united European army". If they mean just another "Franco-German brigade" or "German-Polish brigade" or something like that, then let them go to hell with their "army". A true European army would require:
    1. Creating a centralized high command
    2. Creating a centralized system of logistics
    3. Creating a common EU military academy + EU general staff college
    4. Leaving NATO

    And really, without raising military expeditures by at least 2x, there is no chance of creating a real army. And due to linguistic diversity of Europe, units will still have to take an essentially territorial character.
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    higurashihougi

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:23 pm

    GarryB wrote:well... thinking about it a bit more... is this an attempt to exclude the US from European matters that don't really involve the US... like the Ukraine?

    Lothar von Trotha wrote:4. Leaving NATO

    Novo Europa separatist Cool Cool

    Unlikely to happen... but just pray for it Cool Cool
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:37 pm

    EU Army and all EU states are in NATO... it is just like with "journalists" being lobbyists of NGO's and organisation like Transatlantikbrücke but at the same time call themselfs "Investigative Journalists"...it is nothing else but a double game it is US army, the aim is to create the Perception they are souvereign and not shadowy controlled by US the goal is to make them ready for war and give them illusion they fight for themselfs and not for Pentagon.
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    George1

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  George1 on Sun May 03, 2015 12:43 pm

    Creating European army long-term goal - German defense minister

    BERLIN, May 3. /TASS/. Creating a European army remains one of the main goals for EU, but it is important to start strengthening the union’s security system now, Germany’s Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen told Bild am Sonntag newspaper on Sunday.

    A European army is a long-term goal, while for now the most important thing is to gradually strengthen the European Defense Community, she said. The US wants Europeans to be a strong link in the framework of NATO, the defense minister added.

    Answering a question on the goals of strengthening the European Defense Community, von der Leyen said that the Ebola outbreak and Islamic State organization’s attacks on Yazidis demonstrated that in case of crisis, Europe needs to be more flexible and quick in providing a response.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Werewolf on Sun May 03, 2015 4:05 pm

    What a joke that entire bullshit is.

    Von der Leyen the failed family minister who has never held a weapon in her hands was also "inspecting" the Bundeswehr's G-36 and deemed them as "inadequate".

    This useless blonde was just put into position as Defense Minister because she is a nobody, a blonde who has no plan of nothing and asks no questions. So now the US can do as it pleases and with bullshit stories like inadequate G-36's, inadequate DM53 rounds, bad this bad that, poor shape this and that, it is just lobbying and creating a picture in public to justify more money for military to use germany as a meatshield against russia the 3rd time in history.

    Von der Leyen is the definition of puppet, you don't even need to put your hand through her rear she already parrotts all by herself.

    jka

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  jka on Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:23 pm

    UK will leave EU.

    Finland maybe have 36,500 and Sweden have 20,500 Home Guard soldiers in south and 9500 in professionel Army. 30,000 in total for Sweden. Maybe it is concripts on way in Sweden reserve force of 30,000 soldiers in north. And maybe 9500 Army Group or 19,951 in professionel Army Groups in 1st size.

    30,000 forces in reserve cost Sweden 500-600 million euro. Then near 2 billion euro the 19,951 1st forces or 500-600 million euro for 9500 Army. South Sweden first Army in Sweden. Whatever it be they will cost us money of rehabilitation of the Army Groups or Army plus reserve force.


    Last edited by jka on Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Little forces upod Germans...)

    jka

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  jka on Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:33 pm

    George1 wrote:

    Setting up common EU armed forces may be on agenda of June summit — European Commission

    Jean-Claude Juncker came forward with a proposal for creating the EU’s own army in an interview to the German weekly Welt am Zontag

    BRUSSELS, 9 March. /TASS/. The idea of setting up EU armed forces may be on agenda of the June summit, the European Commission's press service told TASS on Monday.

    The chief of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker came forward with a proposal for creating the EU’s own army in an interview to the German weekly Welt am Zontag.

    "A common European Army would show the world that there will be no more wars among the EU countries. Such an army would enable us to conduct a foreign policy and a policy of security and to become aware of Europe’s responsibility in the world," he said.

    "In the nuclear age extra armies do not provide any additional security. But they surely can play a provocative role," Klintsevich said, adding it was regrettable that such ideas had already met with some support.


    180,000 soldiers in total. 60,000 in wars, 60,000 in Brussel and 60,000 in training.

    Or will be 350,000 (old Roman Empire size) and many tanks by over 1000 pieces.

    And 2000 Towad Artillery.

    Or will be 532,000 near today by strenght of Iran.
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    Godric

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Godric on Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:55 pm

    jka wrote:Biggest troops 2015-2016:

    France - 197,000
    Germany - 117,000
    Greece - 108,950
    Spain - 100,000
    Poland - 99,340
    Romania - 73,150

    UK will leave EU.

    Finland maybe have 36,500 and Sweden have 20,500 Home Guard soldiers in south and 9500 in professionel Army. 30,000 in total for Sweden. Maybe it is concripts on way in Sweden reserve force of 30,000 soldiers in north. And maybe 9500 Army Group or 19,951 in professionel Army Groups in 1st size.

    30,000 forces in reserve cost Sweden 500-600 million euro. Then near 2 billion euro the 19,951 1st forces or 500-600 million euro for 9500 Army. South Sweden first Army in Sweden. Whatever it be they will cost us money of rehabilitation of the Army Groups or Army plus reserve force.

    England, Wales and N Ireland will leave the EU ... Scotland will remain in the EU because Scotland is very much pro EU .... latest polls are over 60% in favour in staying in the EU ... and a EU army will never happen ... can't see the French hand over control of their armed forces to a centralised EU (Germany) for 1 they would end up losing their nuclear forces and if Marie Le Penn gets into power France will move rapidly towards Russia ... she would also release the Mistrals to Russia
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:16 pm

    Undoubtly that is the same sweden guy with his former username Batallion who was kicked out because his english skills are far worse than BOOK's yoda english that actually makes to some extend sence.

    jka

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  jka on Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:51 pm

    Sweden have 19,951 proffesionel Army and around 20,000 in south Sweden but that soon history. Concripts Army as reserve forces by 30,000 soldiers on way. Maybe Sweden have 4000 + 7000 soldiers in south half by proffesionel Army and 3500 soldiers in north. 2 divisions Gripen C/D in Luleå flottilj. Soon history with divisions in Luleå. Away before 2020s. 44 Gripen C/D in Luleå flottilj.

    jka

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  jka on Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:12 pm

    France - 197,000
    Greece - 111,000
    Germany - 108,000
    Spain - 100,000
    Poland - 99,340
    Romania - 73,150

    Season 2015-2016.

    jka

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  jka on Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:41 pm

    Maybe Russia(2nd), Germany(1st) or UK(1st) in my interest now.

    Sweden Army Groups must where this:

    Rearm of professional soldiers according to SD and me.

    Strenght will be this:

    Army - 35,000
    Navy - 10,000
    Air Force - 8000

    To hold on Sweden 2022-2040.

    Before it can where Germany by today strenght of 108,000 how goes near 4000 down.

    Then they are finished with these size.

    Or British Empire without Royal Air Force in 2020s.

    50 F-35B for aircraft carrier in says FB.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:46 am

    EUROPEAN COUNTRIES HAVE LISTENED TO MACRON AND CREATED THEIR OWN COALITION OF ARMED FORCES
    The structure included France, Germany, Belgium, Great Britain, Denmark, Estonia, the Netherlands, Spain and Portugal.
    In addition, it is likely that the coalition will also support Finland.
    Note that "neutral" but NATO leaning Sweden, + Italy & none of the former E. Bloc members r in it.

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  ATLASCUB on Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:57 pm

    Makes the impetus of breaking up the E.U the more important.

    Sure you open a can of worms which the U.S will exploit to host IRBMs all over the place but Europe will be divided, which means easier picking for Russia as well. In the current configuration, not only do you have to contend with the U.S but you also have to contend with an otherwise "unified" European elite (Germans/French gluing everyone else) hostile to Russia  (for the simple fact that Russia is competition to German/French influence in Europe - it's also economic competition, and ideological competition - and that's never gonna change - thus containing Russia is and always will be the goal - to the best of their ability).

    In this sense, Russia should work in tandem with the U.S in this regard (obviously the American elites are divided in this issue). Post break up it's a short term problem with the U.S but the U.S can't keep up its status and economic vitality the way they're running house.

    Weakening France and Germany is beneficial for Russia.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:48 pm

    ..the U.S will exploit to host IRBMs all over the place
    .."unified" European elite (Germans/French gluing everyone else) hostile to Russia (for the simple fact that Russia is competition to German/French influence in Europe - it's also economic competition, and ideological competition - and that's never gonna change - thus containing Russia is and always will be the goal - to the best of their ability).
    No need to put many IRBMs there- the USN/AF has plenty of long range CMs.
    Germany would rather buy gas directly from Russia than more expensive gas form the US. What else can Russia sell to Europeans & others to out compete them?
    There r no no vital ideological issues between them either: the Soviet Socialism & Communism r dead; Catholicism/Protestantism vs. Eastern/Russian Orthodoxy r all branches of Christianity & the Pope won't call for another crusade against them any time soon, even with more trouble in Ukraine among the churches there.
    Macron explained to Trump why the EU needs its own army
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2516813.html

    In other words, by not relying only on the US, he can spend $ better than on the US bases/MIC, but instead on the local MIC. If Russia really was such a big threat, there would be no need for it.
    The former US commander in Europe from 2014-7 retired Lt. General Ben Hodges spoke at the Warsaw Security Forum on October 24th, where he told NATO allies that they would have to increase defense spending because the United States will not be able to protect them against a “resurgent Russia” while it is fighting China. He predicted that the U.S. will probably be at war with China within 15 years to protect its interests in the Pacific region. http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/america-goes-to-war/


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  ATLASCUB on Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:18 pm

    Wishful thinking. You can't beat an IRBM (or potentially nuclear hypersonic missile - which in the future the U.S will have) 3 mins away from Moscow. It's a no brainer to strategically deploy there and push your (American) advantage.  In a broken up E.U, there will be more than plenty of willing suitors that will lend their land as a staging ground. As long as the U.S continues to be the prime economic power in the world they'll have considerable sway on vulnerable elites within the European family of nations - divide and conquer. This scenario however - in my opinion - is much more favorable for Russia.

    Hell, there is literally no guarantee that the E.U of today won't deploy those missiles at U.S "request" --- if it takes a manufactured crisis on Russia's borders that crisis will come to past - have no doubt about that. The Germans will take Russian gas because it's a no brainer to do so. This is merely a realpolitik transaction - it does not signify friendship or non-rivalry. Containment of Russian influence and economic growth will continue to be the policy of E.U elites (the ones that matter). ONLY, and only when Russia surpasses the pillars of current E.U strength, (France/Germany economically), only then will Russia start to make inroads in Europe to significantly expand its influence/economic power to historical levels and reshape the chessboard more to their liking (and to German/French chagrin). Pretty simple. For that, Russia needs Eurasia. It will not find that help in an E.U elite hellbent on the dreams of its dissolution - methods vary over time to achieve the goal - brunt war has clearly not being that successful. Only fools would believe the E.U elites (and their offspring) who lied through their teeth in the early 1990s about post Soviet Europe. To quote Bush Jr... fool me once, shame on...you (me).....a fool me can't get fooled again.

    As for France/Germany - give their elites enough power and time and they'll find a way to stumble into war with Russia. Add a little nudge from the Anglo's and it becomes even more tempting. A stronger E.U army protecting the E.U is a big fat threat for Russia. Only naive children taking at face value political talking points from lying politicians and propaganda suited for the times will come to a different conclusion. Macron is the perfect poster boy - the standard bearer for the marketing of this E.U army... ask why Merkel does not strongly repudiate the idea (the E.U after all revolves around the German state)? Why? Cause Germans want it - and they understand that it's better if it comes from the French's mouth rather than from a German mouth - the call to militarize the union to protect it from outside pressure (which benefits Germans the most). And obviously there is always the dual purpose - "protect" (aka expand) E.U "interests" abroad by the sword. The Germans figure obviously that to avoid inviting effective opposition and play into effective Nazi stereotypes - the French should market it and take the "lead". Make no mistake, the German elites that matter are full on board...lil Macron wouldn't be so freely clamoring for it otherwise.

    The E.U has the human capital and the financial resources to create this, what it lacks is political will - which they're clearly working now to build a semi-consensus. The goal is protect the E.U, an anti-russian union of states that after the collapse of the Soviet Union swallowed Soviet satellites, pushed for the dismemberment of Yugoslavia and has, along with the anglo's, destroyed Ukraine - how many more pillars of Russian power and influence do they have to destroy and swallow up? To claim that these european elites were mere bystanders forced by the whip of Washignton is equivalent to retardation. Today Russia can threaten with its stick Eastern Europe. With a E.U army, that stick will become almost non-existent - gains in the geopolitical chessboard will be reinforced by brute force....not mere E.U wide economic sanctions on Russia.... that so far have paralyzed Russia successfully.

    As for nobodies speculating about a Chinesse/American war... that would only come to pass if the U.S feels it can win a war or blackmail China into submission - and if it intends to do so it better do so soon because time is against them. Fact is, the Chinese can already insure semi-MAD. The Chinese are not stupid - they'll sooner or later increase their strategic nuclear arsenal to match those of Russia and the U.S - but they'll go at their pace, not play into an American timetable. At that point - 15 years, it's full on MAD anyway and the so called war will be just another cold war 21st century style with proxy conflicts spread out. The biggest pocket usually wins the war, even if a battle here or there is lost. We'll see. War between them is equivalent to World War and suicide. If one of them has a death wish perhaps that war does become real.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Ideas of United European Army

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:12 pm

    Having its own armed force outside of NATO (its expansion failed miserably), they can feel secure enough to mend fences with Russia, regardless of any US attempted diktat. In 10-15 years, if not earlier, most of the trade with Asia, incl. India, Japan & N/S Korea will be coming via Russian, Iranian & Turkish railroads/rivers & the NSR:
    Not only the RF, but also the EU will suffer in the event of US-PRC war.
    I doubt they will want to do anything to antagonize Russia & China.

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