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    Venezuela crisis

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    Will usa be successful in installing it's puppet

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    Total Votes: 30
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:32 am

    nomadski wrote:Yes  back on topic .  A reminder that  the world should not abandon the people of Venezuela . Under threats from America . Ships should go . Trade must continue .  I want to hear news about actual help given to them . The progress they make .

    Ps : To the person who continues to make comparisons of our nations to chit holes , I must say that  this may be true  , but  you know what  ,  IT IS OUR CHIT HOLE !

    America is leveraging the perception that it is saving Venezuelans from a horrible government that is oppressing them and denying them economic freedom.
    So it is the white knight riding in to save the day. The reality that it is America itself that has been sabotaging Venezuela, stirring up strife and ultimately
    meddling overtly to install a bootlick regime. A certain resident clown will claim that it is the Venezuelans themselves that are "incompetent" and to
    blame. As if sabotage is not assault and aggression and can be ignored as a nuisance. Venezuela does not have the size like Russia to deploy resources
    to counteract Washington's dirty tricks. And people take Russia's spectacular success in fighting off these self-anointed masters of the universe for granted.

    Unfortunately, the dirty reality is consigned to the tin foil hat fringe for discussion.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python on Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:22 pm

    Aristide wrote:Same counts for my trip to Russia in January 2018. St Petersburg looks nice at the tourist spots but outside...dirty, worn down and pretty bad poverty. There is no functional mobile net outside the city. Public service is rotten down.

    You hardly have Wlan outside the center.

    Not really - compared to Paris our metro is in a far better state. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuEDuye-JmE
    We don't have any migrant camps in the centre with litter everywhere or constant fights between protestors and police either.

    Don't know about WLAN but we have 4G everywhere and very fast internet. In the suburbs you have a lot of Soviet-era grey buildings from the 70s, 60s; they're an eyesore but appartments tend to be pretty inside. And heating/electricity/water everywhere.
    Of course going during the winter with melting snow and cars on the roads.. it's going to be dirty.

    Don't see how you're judging the poverty situation. The people who are poor are the pensioners. Young families or professionals on the other hand tend to have enough money.

    Russia, China or India lack something...a culture people want copy. Who wants to be like Russia or India or China?

    Russia is a developed country, that suffered a massive economic and industrial collapse that it's still recovering from. But at its core its still developed. It has the highest proportion of people with degrees in the world. Something like 2nd in terms of women in the workforce. All sorts of industries. Hundreds of research institutions. No contagious diseases amongst the population. People are hygenic. Full sanitation networks, gasification/heating of homes, electricity supplies everywhere, clean water, functional public transport systems.

    So don't put Russia in the same boat as developing countries such as India or China.

    Nobody. In case of Russia i think the biggest problem is, its lack of style, art and class.

    Pretty funny considering that the top Ballerina schools in the world are in St. Petersburg, we also have the 2nd largest gallery, dozens of museums, theatres, academies, etc...
    Actually the whole city is an architectual monument.

    On the contrary classical culture is being shoved away in Europe and America as something pretentious, associated with posh upper classes and out of date. It's very much a niche interest. People don't go to galleries, theatres, etc...
    The rage is all LGBT and ethnic minority culture these days.

    In Russia though classic European forms of art are still highly valued among all social strata.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:36 pm

    @KVS


    Thanks for reply  .  I agree that fighting and winning  the information war , is very important . And perhaps forums such as this , can play a role . In exposing the truth . So that truth does not get confused with lies or propaganda .

    Take for example this power cut . There are claims and counter claims . I don't have access to facts on the ground . So I use probability  reasoning . For example how many power outages has there been in venezuela in past ten to twenty years ? Since installations  of new dam and power grid ?

    So the probability  is say X occurrences  over one year . So over current year , if more outages happen , then everything else being equal , this indicates an  unusual event .

    The yanks attacked Iraq power grid with graphite bombs . Over transmission lines . Causing outages . I said that  mini circuit breakers should be installed over power lines . To trip the system , if shorted out with graphite.

    Also I predicted that a computer hack can disable power or transport . I said that secondary manual control systems should be installed . For power and water and traffic control . One advantage of having local internet than world internet . Cyber security .

    Civil defence can include , decontamination units , composed of existing fire brigades . That use  gases or air to decontaminate power lines or sub - stations .

    Some claim the lack of personnel ( experts leaving the country ) or funding ( a bankrupt state owned industry ) as the cause . Well if true , then the Venezuelans will not be able to restore the grid . But I have a feeling that the grid will be restored . As though by magic !

    Where did they get the personnel ? Where did the money come from ? This then , will be proven to be false . Better keep essential services under tight state control . Hybrid war can affect anyone these days !
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:15 am

    Nerves Fray, Tempers Flare as Venezuela Blackout Hits 4th Day
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-venezuela-politics/nerves-fray-tempers-flare-as-venezuela-blackout-hits-fourth-day-idUKKBN1QR0MM

    US Pressuring India to End Venezuelan Oil Purchases
    https://thehill.com/policy/international/433409-us-pressuring-india-to-end-venezuelan-oil-purchases

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:29 am

    nomadski wrote:@KVS


    Thanks for reply  .  I agree that fighting and winning  the information war , is very important . And perhaps forums such as this , can play a role . In exposing the truth . So that truth does not get confused with lies or propaganda .

    Take for example this power cut . There are claims and counter claims . I don't have access to facts on the ground . So I use probability  reasoning . For example how many power outages has there been in venezuela in past ten to twenty years ? Since installations  of new dam and power grid ?

    So the probability  is say X occurrences  over one year . So over current year , if more outages happen , then everything else being equal , this indicates an  unusual event .

    The yanks attacked Iraq power grid with graphite bombs . Over transmission lines . Causing outages . I said that  mini circuit breakers should be installed over power lines . To trip the system , if shorted out with graphite.

    Also I predicted that a computer hack can disable power or transport . I said that secondary manual control systems should be installed . For power and water and traffic control . One advantage of having local internet than world internet . Cyber security .

    Civil defence can include , decontamination units , composed of existing fire brigades . That use  gases or air to decontaminate power lines or sub - stations .

    Some claim the lack of personnel ( experts leaving the country )  or funding ( a bankrupt state owned industry ) as the cause . Well if true , then the Venezuelans  will not be able to restore the grid . But I have a feeling that the grid will be restored . As though by magic !

    Where did they  get the personnel ? Where did the money come from ? This then , will be proven to be false . Better keep essential services under tight state control . Hybrid war can affect anyone these days !

    It is extremely easy to stage power outages, to disrupt food transport and create chaos of all sorts. Venezuela must go on the information offensive and
    immediately identify the problems with the power grid instead of waiting for some BS investigation to conclude in one year's time. Since we are dealing
    with sabotage it should be easy to film the damage.

    Power plants and transmission lines are not internet devices so they cannot be hacked. This is NATO propaganda for saps designed to feed them fear and
    instill hate for the "enemy". Only morons would put any power plant control system under the control of a computer attached to the ethernet. Power plants
    require local operators and not lazy "work from home" clowns. So I highly doubt that Venezuela's power problems are due to some hard to report cyber attack.
    They are much more physical in nature.

    Although I want to be on Maduro's side since the USA is a monster entity bent on world domination, I really think that he is incompetent and has
    lost control of the situation. If Chavez was still alive, then all these dirty tricks would be better managed and suppressed. Venezuela cannot have
    a bureaucratic leadership like the USSR. It does not have the resources and machinery to fight off the attacks from Uncle Scumbag. Chavez was
    the sort of rebel leader that understood this. (I think Castro was the same in the case of Cuba). Maduro is not on the ball and really does not
    understand how to counteract Yanqui meddling. He reminds me of Yanukovich and can fall at any moment.
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    andalusia

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    Post  andalusia on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:17 am

    kvs wrote:
    nomadski wrote:Yes  back on topic .  A reminder that  the world should not abandon the people of Venezuela . Under threats from America . Ships should go . Trade must continue .  I want to hear news about actual help given to them . The progress they make .

    Ps : To the person who continues to make comparisons of our nations to chit holes , I must say that  this may be true  , but  you know what  ,  IT IS OUR CHIT HOLE !

    America is leveraging the perception that it is saving Venezuelans from a horrible government that is oppressing them and denying them economic freedom.
    So it is the white knight riding in to save the day.   The reality that it is America itself that has been sabotaging Venezuela, stirring up strife and ultimately
    meddling overtly to install a bootlick regime.    A certain resident clown will claim that it is the Venezuelans themselves that are "incompetent" and to
    blame.   As if sabotage is not assault and aggression and can be ignored as a nuisance.    Venezuela does not have the size like Russia to deploy resources
    to counteract Washington's dirty tricks.   And people take Russia's spectacular success in fighting off these self-anointed masters of the universe for granted.

    Unfortunately, the dirty reality is consigned to the tin foil hat fringe for discussion.    

    Marco Rubio is very symbolic of the attitude of white latin americans regarding the poor of their countries; Castro was justified in what he did back in the 1960s.

    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2019/march/09/sen-rubio-makes-fun-of-the-suffering-of-the-venezuelan-people/
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:32 am

    @KVS

    There was a case of a man with mental  illness  of autism ,  that  hacked and broke into  pentagon or NASA .  And the yanks wanted to extradite  him . I  remember the Stuxnet that hit  Iran , was by internet . So I will not rule out a computer hack yet .

    Regarding  taxi drivers , I have personally gotten  some of the best advice from them . Drivers are in general very gregarious , they talk and listen a lot . And have good common sense .

    The problems in the world , are common or social . I doubt any other person can singly solve them . It is easy  to advise  and help Venezuelans  . They must not loose hope . They must try again and again .

    @Lion

    Can you put links in English , if you can  . I do not speak Russian . Or at least explain what a rubber boat  got  to do with Venezuela  ?
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    andalusia

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    Post  andalusia on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:55 am

    Michael Hudson is a brilliant economist and these are two worthwhile reads:


    https://michael-hudson.com/2019/02/venezuela-as-the-pivot-for-new-internationalism/

    https://michael-hudson.com/2019/02/trumps-brilliant-strategy-to-dismember-u-s-dollar-hegemony/
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:55 pm

    Venezuela Congress Declares 'State of Alarm' Over Blackout
    US Sanctions Russian Bank Over Dealings With V. State Oil Firm

    https://www.antiwar.com/
    RTN
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    Post  RTN on Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:20 am

    flamming_python wrote:Not really - compared to Paris our metro is in a far better state. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuEDuye-JmE
    We don't have any migrant camps in the centre with litter everywhere or constant fights between protestors and police either.

    This was bound to happen. Even today, France occupies an area in Africa roughly 2/3 the size of the U.S.

    Where else will all these Africans go. Knock down others doors and they will come knocking at your's
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:11 am

    The Chinese connection: https://ria.ru/20190313/1551749505.html

    https://regnum.ru/news/economy/2589662.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:01 am

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:36 am

    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:21 am

    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:35 pm


    Trade should and can be a way of moderating international relations . Providing that it is mutually beneficial to all parties . In order for this to happen , basic conditions must be met by corporations :

    ( 1 ) The proportion of allocated trade , should reflect the population size of that nation and not it's wealth . This so that populous but poor nations , without a surplus have a share in world trade and become developed .

    ( 2 ) That , as the Chinese have shown , there is technological transfer .

    ( 3 ) That financial guarantees are secured against investments , to ensure no damaging unilateral withdrawal from contracts , as the case in Iran , can occur .

    ( 4 ) Environmental and social damage caused by activities of corporations , should be financially compensated , to the workers and citizens. And host country .

    ( 5 ) Majority or controlling shares , should be maintained by host nation .

    ( 6) Host nation has right to reallocate share of trade from a country that breaks these rules .


    Under these conditions then , and some others , trade can be seen as beneficial . But a country such as USA that is ideologically anti - socialist , can not act as a reliable trading partner .
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:30 pm

    So the all thing about gov change fucked up. US failed. Now that they didn't succeed and didn't send army, everyone saw it was a bluff.

    Even if it is now clear that maduro has no future, the US puppet is no better for venezuelans who don't want him to be a leader at all. No support, he just come in middle of protests but they don't care about him.

    Maduro should be removed by china and russia. He is useless. Nothing like Chavez.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:28 pm

    Isos wrote:So the all thing about gov change fucked up. US failed. Now that they didn't succeed and didn't send army, everyone saw it was a bluff.

    Even if it is now clear that maduro has no future, the US puppet is no better for venezuelans who don't want him to be a leader at all. No support, he just come in middle of protests but they don't care about him.

    Maduro should be removed by china and russia. He is useless. Nothing like Chavez.

    He's an ex cab driver. He just does not have the caliber of Chavez. But Chavez set Maduro up by engaging in too much nationalization at the end of
    his presidency. There was no need for another pure socialism experiment which was going to fail anyway. Both Chavez and Maduro should have
    focused on developing a loyal Venezuelan elite. If that means having a capitalist class then so be it. The poor masses are never organized and
    focused. That is why hierarchies develop and hold power. So the game has to be played and pretending that some utopian collective will arise
    from good wishes is delusional.

    Russia in the last 20 years is exhibit A in supporting my case. During the 1990s there was the belief in the phony monetarist religion that caused a
    massive economic implosion. By dropping any idealized view of social and economic organization, the country could finally get back on its feet.
    Pursuing an ideology implies breaking things by the mere fact that they do not conform to one's ideology. This is unacceptable. No human or organization
    understands societal and economic dynamics completely. All theories are approximations, especially in this field given its complexity and noisiness of
    the data.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:53 pm


    @ KVS

    Agree . By the same token , any other economic model , should be judged . Not thorough ideological bias , but thorough results . There is nothing or little , that is illogical about socialist economics . At least that is my understanding . It may be a good model . Like a Rolls Royce car . But you need a good driver to keep it running . It may work in some cases . Depending on the social consciousness of the population . Objective measurements are possible to determine effectiveness . For farming , one such simple measure , can be weight of produce .
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:13 am

    Amusing, people in foreign countries telling venezuela who they can and cannot have as a leader...

    Personally I would say the the west had better be careful because Maduro was voted in legally only last year and had better election figures that much of the western world...

    Venezuela crisis - Page 26 51472110

    Based on the figures above who should go first?

    Amusing some people think so little of cab drivers... is he also dumb because he is Venezuelan?

    Screw setting up some sort of elite support group... how would they be any different from the rich fat cats who want Americans in there running the place so they can make more money and the government stops wasting money on the poor and the people who need help?
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:14 am

    GarryB wrote:Amusing, people in foreign countries telling venezuela who they can and cannot have as a leader...

    Personally I would say the the west had better be careful because Maduro was voted in legally only last year and had better election figures that much of the western world...

    Venezuela crisis - Page 26 51472110

    Based on the figures above who should go first?

    Amusing some people think so little of cab drivers... is he also dumb because he is Venezuelan?

    Screw setting up some sort of elite support group... how would they be any different from the rich fat cats who want Americans in there running the place so they can make more money and the government stops wasting money on the poor and the people who need help?

    Venezuela does not need a cab driver bureaucrat. It needs somebody like Chavez. Maduro simply does not have the mentality of
    Chavez and the current situation in Venezuela can't be fobbed off onto everyone else. It is rather self-evident that Maduro has been
    behind the ball at fighting off US dirty tricks. And he is letting American propaganda set the narrative.

    Even when these clowns appear to be sharp as a Fox they are still morons. For example the dictator of Belorus or Yanukovich.
    All these f*cks do is pave for the advancement of America's empire. That is my metric and it vastly better than your apologia.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:01 am

    Trump’s CIA Now Unbound and Back to Its Traditional Hijinks

    Venezuela crisis - Page 26 Or-42392

    Under the directorship of torture and black site maven Gina Haspel, Donald Trump’s Central Intelligence Agency has returned to its traditional roots of conducting “black bag” operations and disrupting electrical grids through cyber-attacks.

    The Venezuelan government has accused the Trump administration of giving the green light for a series of crippling power failures in Venezuela, which affected 22 of Venezuela’s 23 states, including the capital of Caracas. The long-duration power failures were cited by US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo as a reason for the US withdrawing its diplomats from Caracas. Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro announced that an international commission assisted by specialists from Russia, China, Iran, and the United Nations would help his country analyze the sources of the Venezuelan electrical grid cyber-attack. Initial cyber-forensics by Venezuela traced some of the cyber warfare being waged against Venezuela to nodes in Houston and Chicago.

    In addition to electricity, water service was disrupted in Venezuela. From Miraflores presidential palace in Caracas, Maduro tweeted on March 12: “From the Presidential Command Post, we monitored minute-by-minute the progress of the recovery of the National Electric System.”

    Cyber-attacks on a country that puts its civilian population in jeopardy might, at first glance, appear to be a violation of the Geneva Conventions on warfare. However, without a Digital Geneva Convention, civilian populations are not covered by the current Geneva Conventions. However, in 2015, the United Nations Group of Governmental Experts on Developments in the Field of Information and Telecommunications in the Context of International Security (UN GGE), which included experts from the United States, China, Russia, France, the United Kingdom, and other nations, agreed that current international law does apply to cyberspace. Most international legal experts agree that the Geneva Conventions require a digital annex to cover the type of cyber-disruption of the Venezuelan electrical grid carried out by the US intelligence services.

    Hybrid warfare against Venezuela, which includes economic, diplomatic, and cyber, has the backing of the neo-conservatives who now call the shots for the Trump White House. They include, in addition to Pompeo, national security adviser John Bolton; Iran-Contra felon Elliott Abrams, Trump’s special envoy to the US-backed opposition-led rump Venezuelan government of Juan Guaido; Cuban-American Mauricio Claver-Carone, the senior director for Western Hemisphere affairs at the National Security Council; and Florida Republican Senator Marco Rubio, a Cuban-American, who represents the interests of South Florida’s right-wing oligarch exiles from Venezuela and other Latin American countries.

    While Trump was preparing for his Hanoi summit meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, Trump’s second summit with Kim, Haspel’s CIA dug into its old bag of black operations, while also engaging in the more modern form of cyber-attack in targeting North Korea.

    On February 22, 2019, ten males, all wearing masks, broke into the North Korean embassy, which is located in the residential suburb of Aravaca, north of Madrid, Spain, and subjected eight embassy staff members to brutal interrogation tactics, including tying up the diplomats, throwing black bags over their heads (a specialty of Ms. Haspel), and subjecting them to beatings. One female diplomat managed to escape through a second-floor window and her screams alerted a neighbor, who promptly called the police. Two embassy employees required medical attention from their injuries.

    The Spanish police and National Intelligence Center (CNI) linked two of the embassy invaders to the CIA. “El Pais,” a Spanish national newspaper, reported that the CIA issued one of its standard “denials,” however, the paper stated that Spanish authorities found the denial from Langley, Virginia to be “unconvincing.” “El Pais” reported that the invasion of the North Korean embassy by the CIA had severely harmed relations between Madrid and Washington.

    The National Police Corps’ General Commissariat of Information (CGI) and CNI concluded that the attack and occupation of the North Korean embassy was not carried out by common criminals but was the work of a “military cell” that stole mobile phones and computers. Two of the embassy invaders were identified as Koreans and, based on CGI’s and CNI’s analysis of security camera video footage, they were further recognized as Koreans linked to the CIA. Spanish authorities did not rule out the possibility that South Korea’s National Intelligence Service assisted the CIA in the embassy invasion. The embassy invaders escaped from the embassy using two North Korean luxury sedans bearing diplomatic plates. The cars were later found abandoned.

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/03/18/trump-cia-now-unbound-and-back-traditional-hijinks.html
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:04 am

    Venezuela does not need a cab driver bureaucrat. It needs somebody like Chavez. Maduro simply does not have the mentality of
    Chavez and the current situation in Venezuela can't be fobbed off onto everyone else.

    What do you even know about Chavez or Maduro?

    If Maduro was a dumb fuck why is he still in power despite the worlds only super power bending over backwards to try to get him kicked out and all the rich western sycophants bending over backwards to help the US and try to force Venezuela to oblige and adopt the same position they enjoy.

    Really are the Venezuelan people also dumb because it seems they voted him in to power and it isn't for his first term either so they can hardly claim they don't know who the fuck he is like they do with this Guano chimp the Yanks are putting up as puppet alternative.

    Maduro seems to really scare the Americans... they are not bothering to try to remove Mexicos leader, or Haitis leader, or Porto Ricos leader... do you really think if he was an idiot they would want him gone so badly?

    Or maybe he is not perfect but is doing a lot of things that make other leaders in the region think they can trade with China and Russia and other countries too and get a better deal than what they get from the Yanks?

    It is rather self-evident that Maduro has been
    behind the ball at fighting off US dirty tricks. And he is letting American propaganda set the narrative.

    What a useless prick... but then couldn't you make the exact same arguments against Putin... he hasn't nationalised western media and forced them to say nice things about him either... wow... and the links just keep coming... Putin was also elected president of his country in a free and open and fair election, that has been criticised by the US because their puppet didn't win... maybe Putin should step down and let someone better qualified carry on.... I am sure the americans can pick a suitable candidate because you clearly don't trust either the Russian people or the Venezuelan people either...

    Even when these clowns appear to be sharp as a Fox they are still morons. For example the dictator of Belorus or Yanukovich.
    All these f*cks do is pave for the advancement of America's empire. That is my metric and it vastly better than your apologia.

    Except the US has failed in the advancement of their empire in Russia and Venezuela and Belarus, but because they succeeded in the Ukraine 5 years ago you now think they should be handed success everywhere else too?

    Well it is pretty fucked up logic, because you are suggesting giving these people what they clearly don't want as medicine to realise they don't want it.

    The people of the Ukraine largely didn't care.... even the pro Russian ones probably thought they would be OK in the EU and NATO and a pawn for America... but look at how that has worked out for them... I don't expect a pro Russian person to win in Ukraines next elections (if it is anything like fair of course), but they will sure as hell not be so pro America or pro EU as they were last time... is that what you want... let Venezuela stew in a pro american government for a decade or two and they will realise what they had with Chavez and reject the monsters under the bed (CIA). But they have already endured decades of mismanagement, it was Chavez that helped them see the light and Maduro is currently slowly dragging them away from their dependency on oil and big american companies... his problem is not incompetence... it is the very low oil price that limits his funds and means he has to pick and choose... he has been building schools and hospitals and housing for the poor... if the price of oil goes up he could invest in alternative money revenue sources and domestic food production... but in the past they were told by the american economists that advised them that they had oil money, they can buy food much more cheaply from neighbours than they could produce it for themselves... why waste money?

    Cyber-attacks on a country that puts its civilian population in jeopardy might, at first glance, appear to be a violation of the Geneva Conventions on warfare. However, without a Digital Geneva Convention, civilian populations are not covered by the current Geneva Conventions.

    Then venezuela should ask China and Russia for support in returning the favour... the electrical system in the US is well known for being rickety... take out power in a few states and kill some people in hospital and lets see how the US likes it...
    nomadski
    nomadski

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    Post  nomadski on Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:26 pm

    @GarryB

    Agree . It is upto people in venezeula to decide who they want as president . Even if they  make wrong choices , it is their choice . Where internal politics may become concern of others , is in cases where Genocide or famine  takes place. This is when populations loose capacity to maintain themselves . Or to recover  quickly . Even civil wars have to be left , to be decided internally , as long as they do not contradict this first rule. In this case , we are dealing with externally induced food shortages . And the world should be concerned , about these external factors .


    Second , I like to address all the rabid anti - communists here and in the world . Communism is a valid and vibrant political and economic system . In no place more so , than the Amazon . Thousands of tribal people exist here in economic and ecologic stability and communistic relations here . These tribe will surely outlast the capitalists and social reformists and bleeding heart liberal societies in the world .

    Society can move to communism . Providing the necessary social consciousness  exists . This can be quantified indirectly . By measuring certain statistics in some groups . One such indicator , is the existence of property theft . Where there is little or no theft , despite economic conditions , then society can move foreward . Can you think of other indicators ?
    Hannibal Barca
    Hannibal Barca

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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:05 pm

    I am surprised how easy this was. I was expecting some kind of pressure, but this was ridiculously one-sided. I am sure Washington vassals are panicked now.
    Vladimir79
    Vladimir79

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    Venezuela crisis - Page 26 Empty Re: Venezuela crisis

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:19 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:I am surprised how easy this was. I was expecting some kind of pressure, but this was ridiculously one-sided. I am sure Washington vassals are panicked now.

    I don't see why you would think so.

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