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    The US meddling in Venezuela

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    KomissarBojanchev
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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:56 pm

    Lothar von Trotha wrote:
    Kyo wrote:During Caldera's government, you could hardly speak of the existence of middle classes. Only a wealthy, corrupt few (that fled afterwards to Miami) and the poor masses, that have been favoured by Chavez' and Maduro's policies.
    But the trend can clearly be seen today - those who support Maduro are mostly poor and uneducated, those who oppose him are overwhelmingly middle class or businessmen -'and those groups are most likely to migrate. Where? To the US of course. Smile

    Of course if you are in the top 5 of the largest oil producers, you can afford a lot of mismanagement and bad policies - but If you want to make the best use of your resources, then "chavism" is not a way to go. Chavists' hatred of the rich will cause their downfall ultimately.

    Just because they're middle or upper class doesn't mean they're good or will act in the best ineterests for their country.
    A country's policies have to be in the interest to the majority of the population. That majority just so happens to be poor. That means if you have to improve their living standard and education at the expense of a exploitative richminority and their northern anglosaxon masters so be it.

    You talk about the "educated" as if they are improving the nation. No, they're looking to exploit it. It's in their interest that they stay the only educated ones in the country.

    Of course they'll "migrate" to the US. They're their agents after all. Leftovers of the disgusting right wing juntas.

    Your beloved rich, especially in south america have been a cancerous leftover from the slaveowning spanish colonial times. They've always propped up murderous dictators, formed family knit or drug dealer governments and helped US corporations exploit the overwhelming majority of the poor population.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:11 pm

    NationalRus wrote:yeah blame the evil capitalist who didnt wanted to sell ther product to ther citizen and CIA commandos who truely are everywere in venzuela sabotaing everything left and right, they must be also the ones who destroyed ther rule of law, ther judiciary system, ther currency and with that ther imports on which they depend ther investment climate, and organized every protest for this incradble regime of saints who are to perfect to protest against. jabba and the bus driver have done fantastic work indeed

    in reality venezuela is in the shit, its falling apart so deep its in the shit, try to find marxist excuses it wont change anything venzuelas citizens are truehly enjoying ther life more and more as the days go past, mugabe will feel soon at home ther
    Destroyed the rule of law? Like there was any during the corporate junta. No worker's rights, rampant drug trade , shitty prisons, murder and torture of leftists, overwhelming majority of the population lived in slums. This is from way before chavez. Of course not reforming the penetentiary system and lack of crackdown on crime is also one of failing of the bolivarians, attributed to their lack of heavyhandedness.

    Seriously ,the gated community isn't the entire world.
    All this student protester twitter BS is a classic example of astroturphing. A few disenfrianchised spoilt rich kids with rags on their faces doesn't constituate a popular revolt.

    Venezuela's economy like most of latin america was largely dependent on the US and subservient to IMF loans, and thus they were at it's whims. If an economic war and constant acts of vengeance by the junta leftover bourgeoisie has to be endured in order to be able to go on it's own political and socially just path,so be it.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:21 pm

    It's better to have a country controlled by the uneducated but ambitious peasents and working class who want social advancement and justice, instead of an educated but oppressive ruling class which only wants to keep it's status at the expense of the former majority.

    This is what happened to the USSR. When the dvoryans and bourgeoisie, which were the only educated classes during their left russia , they hoped that the new peasant government would soon topple due to a lack of intellectuals, but what happened was their worst nighmares. These lowly krestyans, rabochie and zhids through experience and perseverence created one of the world's most technologically and socially advanced and powerful country in the world.

    NationalRus
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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  NationalRus on Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:42 pm

    now you dont need workers laws since ther will be not much workers left, murder is high as ever and drugs are everywere now politcal murder of left-liberals conservatives who are all now "fascists" is the norm, the student were also fascists and cia operatives like the bus driver said. and all people who had buissnesses trying hard to work end employ make a living got crushed, the currency is shit, so everything import needed has been destroyed, shortages everywere its worse then in fucking cuba hahahahaha ironicaly cuba is now opening to investors bisides the tourism industry

    other latin countrys also left countrys are doing in comparison to venzuela great, jabba has done fine work indeed





    here few spoiled kids, the bus dirvers approval is now by 22% looks like jabbisimo is done as a ideology


    venezuela is done, now asslicking from marxist will fix it, its just done its destroyed it already happened try to mask it with good words it changes nothing what is dead is dead, the inflation is runing berserk, i will eat popcorn and see how venezuela will burn glory to jabba

    want somthing to enjoy, go to MercadoLibre/dot/com and look what shit cost in venzuela 5.000€ -6.500$ for a smarthpone etc.etc.etc.etc.etc i earn about quadrupel more a months as normal middle class then in venezuela and my prices are 3-25 times less depends on the item lol1


    Last edited by NationalRus on Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Kyo
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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  Kyo on Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:57 pm

    Maduro's Venezuela is going through the same scenario as Allende's Chile that led the way to Pinochet's bloodbath, which had US support.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  Kyo on Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:26 pm

    Obama declares Venezuela a threat to US national security

    White House wrote:“This new authority is aimed at persons involved in or responsible for the erosion of human rights guarantees, persecution of political opponents, curtailment of press freedoms, use of violence and human rights violations and abuses in response to antigovernment protests, and arbitrary arrest and detention of antigovernment protestors, as well as the significant public corruption by senior government officials in Venezuela,” the release said.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  Kyo on Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:07 am

    Venezuela recalls its ambassador to the US

    NationalRus
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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  NationalRus on Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:17 am

    Venezuela installing fingerprint scanners at grocery stores

    Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro announced that the government will install 20,000 fingerprint scanners at grocery stores throughout the country.
    Maduro said that this would be the "first phase" of incorporating the fingerprint scanners into the national food sales system.


    desperation just hit a new level

    GarryB
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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:27 am

    desperation just hit a new level

    Count the number of CCD cameras in the UK and tell me it isn't just a natural trend...


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    NationalRus
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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  NationalRus on Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    desperation just hit a new level

    Count the number of CCD cameras in the UK and tell me it isn't just a natural trend...

    its the reasons of doing so, the reasons here are clear, now you basical need id to buy food so you dont buy to much food... whatever that means


    Venezuela needs food aid!

    Union of South American Nations will send food, medications to help country cope with shortages
    Venezuela will enlist the help of its neighbors in dealing with ongoing crisis-level shortages of food and medications as foreign ministers from 12 South American nations gathered on Saturday to discuss humanitarian aid to the recession-hit country.
    The diplomats met with President Nicolas Maduro in the Venezuelan capital of Caracas.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:39 pm

    I dont get it. Venezuela is perfect for growing plenty of food, why is their agriculture industry none existant? Even Cuba has one.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  NationalRus on Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:59 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I dont get it. Venezuela is perfect for growing plenty of food, why is their agriculture industry none existant? Even Cuba has one.

    stupid managment by the goverment destroying a existing industry with productive farms trough confiscation

    In Venezuela, Land Redistribution Program Backfires

    Food fight How to destroy an industry

    over the years the situiation has become worse and worse and worse, im not sure of the stats but i think last time a readed venezuela imports........ 90% of its food in some areas


    Last edited by NationalRus on Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

    sepheronx
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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:55 pm

    Prior to the land redistribution program, how much did they import?

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  NationalRus on Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:41 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Prior to the land redistribution program, how much did they import?

    of all imports that venezuela made food was 11.2% in 1990, 11.7% 2000 and 15.5% in 2010 a quadrupel growth in imports in comparison to 1990-2000 which escalated now significantly in the last ~3 years

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  Kyo on Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:06 am

    NationalRus wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Prior to the land redistribution program, how much did they import?

    of all imports that venezuela made food was 11.2% in 1990, 11.7% 2000 and 15.5% in 2010 a quadrupel growth in imports in comparison to 1990-2000 which escalated now significantly in the last ~3 years

    This is because since 1998 poor Venezuelans have begun to feed themselves. Poverty in Venezuela shrank from 49,4% in 1999 to 27,8% in 2010 (Wikipedia). Btw, since the George W. Bush era, the US has also been waging economic war against the country.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:28 am

    Land reform always devastates the food production industry in any country... whether it was the commies in the Soviet Union, or Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

    Large farms are more efficient than small ones, but usually those large farms are owned by rich land owners that don't give a sht about the people and treat their workers badly (ie don't pay them enough).

    When you split up a big efficient farm and give it to a man and his family he doesn't have enough land to produce for export... generally they have enough to feed their family with enough left over to sell at the local market to make enough money for other things they might buy like clothes etc.

    It is often the case of the 1%ers losing their land and that land going to the 99%ers, so of course the standard western response is that it is communism and economic suicide, but most of the time it is just justice.

    In Zimbabwe most of the big farms were owned by whites, and you of course ended up with the situation where the rich white land owners underpaid the black workers to generate their wealth further... the usual case where wealth creates more wealth faster than work creates wealth so the rich remained rich or got richer and the poor remained poor or got poorer.

    Something the west claims a free market economy solves and history has shown actually makes worse.


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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  olibeira on Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:00 am

    The problem with Venezuela is that consumption is rising faster than production. Since Chavez came to power the country went from 20 million to 30 million people. The calory intake increased and people started buying more and better quality food.

    Or at least, that was happening up until 2013. Now facing a reduction of USD income, they are increasing domestic production even faster and there seems to be no shortage of food.

    And you have to take into account that food prices are very low compared with neighbouring countries.

    So there's an incentive for people to engage in food and oil smuggling.

    Right now they have a huge distortion in the forex market because they have currency controls which limit movements in the currency.

    There's no floating rate like in most countries. That's what's causing the shortages and why people can't afford imported electronics and cars.

    So that's a problem they need to face and end the currency controls.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:14 am

    olibeira wrote:The problem with Venezuela is that consumption is rising faster than production. Since Chavez came to power the country went from 20 million to 30 million people. The calory intake increased and people started buying more and better quality food.

    Or at least, that was happening up until 2013. Now facing a reduction of USD income, they are increasing domestic production even faster and there seems to be no shortage of food.

    And you have to take into account that food prices are very low compared with neighbouring countries.

    So there's an incentive for people to engage in food and oil smuggling.

    Right now they have a huge distortion in the forex market because they have currency controls which limit movements in the currency.

    There's no floating rate like in most countries. That's what's causing the shortages and why people can't afford imported electronics and cars.

    So that's a problem they need to face and end the currency controls.

    George Soro's agrees.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  kvs on Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:59 am

    GarryB wrote:Land reform always devastates the food production industry in any country... whether it was the commies in the Soviet Union, or Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

    Large farms are more efficient than small ones, but usually those large farms are owned by rich land owners that don't give a sht about the people and treat their workers badly (ie don't pay them enough).

    When you split up a big efficient farm and give it to a man and his family he doesn't have enough land to produce for export... generally they have enough to feed their family with enough left over to sell at the local market to make enough money for other things they might buy like clothes etc.

    It is often the case of the 1%ers losing their land and that land going to the 99%ers, so of course the standard western response is that it is communism and economic suicide, but most of the time it is just justice.

    In Zimbabwe most of the big farms were owned by whites, and you of course ended up with the situation where the rich white land owners underpaid the black workers to generate their wealth further... the usual case where wealth creates more wealth faster than work creates wealth so the rich remained rich or got richer and the poor remained poor or got poorer.

    Something the west claims a free market economy solves and history has shown actually makes worse.

    Russia went through exactly this shite in the 1990s. Big state farms were broken up into small ones and none of them were viable.
    The owners of the smaller farms could not arrange for financing and that meant the could not buy new equipment or even plant.
    Privatizing or spinning into a format similar to Canada's crown corporations would have been the optimal approach. Since that
    shock therapy disaster there has been a consolidation of these small farms into profitable large ones. Russian agriculture is
    finally starting to do well.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  kvs on Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:03 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    NationalRus wrote:
    Kyo wrote:Maduro's Venezuela is going through the same scenario as Allende's Chile that led the way to Pinochet's bloodbath, which had US support.

    i hope so

    I know someone personally, who was exiled from Chile for 25 years and served prison time prior because of General Pinochet. I am pretty certain he has an actual idea of the system back then and he would probably want to hurt you for that. For that matter, 25,000+ people in Chile would.

    You are absolutely a pathetic person.

    It tags him as a liberast. Liberasts love Pinochet. Of course none of them lived in Chile or Argentina (same junta reign of terror)
    during the 1970s and know what the f*ck they are talking about.

    All Russian liberasts should be shipped off to America, ASAP.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:19 am

    kvs wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Land reform always devastates the food production industry in any country... whether it was the commies in the Soviet Union, or Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

    Large farms are more efficient than small ones, but usually those large farms are owned by rich land owners that don't give a sht about the people and treat their workers badly (ie don't pay them enough).

    When you split up a big efficient farm and give it to a man and his family he doesn't have enough land to produce for export... generally they have enough to feed their family with enough left over to sell at the local market to make enough money for other things they might buy like clothes etc.

    It is often the case of the 1%ers losing their land and that land going to the 99%ers, so of course the standard western response is that it is communism and economic suicide, but most of the time it is just justice.

    In Zimbabwe most of the big farms were owned by whites, and you of course ended up with the situation where the rich white land owners underpaid the black workers to generate their wealth further... the usual case where wealth creates more wealth faster than work creates wealth so the rich remained rich or got richer and the poor remained poor or got poorer.

    Something the west claims a free market economy solves and history has shown actually makes worse.

    Russia went through exactly this shite in the 1990s.   Big state farms were broken up into small ones and none of them were viable.
    The owners of the smaller farms could not arrange for financing and that meant the could not buy new equipment or even plant.
    Privatizing or spinning into a format similar to Canada's crown corporations would have been the optimal approach.   Since that
    shock therapy disaster there has been a consolidation of these small farms into profitable large ones.   Russian agriculture is
    finally starting to do well.

    There is a program being pushed that people who want to make use of the land in the far east will be granted something like 3 or more acres of land for free. If this is the case, then a bunch of people can obtain this land, build their Dacha's on the land, and then consolidate their remaining acres not used (besides the small gardens they build for their own uses like Dacha gardens being the in thing in Russia), and create a co-op farming company that uses combined all remaining acres to grow something meaningful and profitable. Or at least rent out remaining acres to a company already working. I know my family's farm is being rented out to a big company that rented out the other farms nearby to grow something meaningful and profitable.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  Kyo on Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:48 pm

    Argentina slams US for declaring Venezuela "a threat to US national security".

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:02 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    olibeira wrote:The problem with Venezuela is that consumption is rising faster than production. Since Chavez came to power the country went from 20 million to 30 million people. The calory intake increased and people started buying more and better quality food.

    Or at least, that was happening up until 2013. Now facing a reduction of USD income, they are increasing domestic production even faster and there seems to be no shortage of food.

    And you have to take into account that food prices are very low compared with neighbouring countries.

    So there's an incentive for people to engage in food and oil smuggling.

    Right now they have a huge distortion in the forex market because they have currency controls which limit movements in the currency.

    There's no floating rate like in most countries. That's what's causing the shortages and why people can't afford imported electronics and cars.

    So that's a problem they need to face and end the currency controls.

    George Soro's agrees.

    The qurstion remains though - what are the alternatives. Venezuela could try and seek to obtain license to manufacture electronics from countries like China and south Korea in order to obtain cheaper priced electronic goods. But outside of that, I dont know.

    As long as the people are eating then things are not that bad yet. But they will need to do something.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  kvs on Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:19 pm

    Venezuela reminds me of Ukraine. In the sense that there are too many gusanos who are able to exert a high level
    of disruption and steer it to where they and their sugar daddy Uncle Sam wants it to go. Right now Venezuela is being
    subjected to a form of the Maidan violence. But distributed and not localized. There is also economic sabotage.
    In Ukraine the western, Lviv centered, gusanos paralyzed its development and eventually got what they wanted,
    a coup to seize all power. Ukraine was at the same level as Russian in 1991 and as of 2013 had only a third of its
    GDP per capita.

    I expect there to be a coup in Venezuela sooner rather than later. The conditions for this coup are being created
    by all the crime and economic disruption designed to poison the people against their elected government. Once
    they finally swallow the shit, they will have leaders who do not represent them but a small clique and the USA.
    The pattern in Latin America for most of the 1900s.

    This is sad.

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    Re: The US meddling in Venezuela

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:31 pm

    kvs wrote:Venezuela reminds me of Ukraine.  In the sense that there are too many gusanos who are able to exert a high level
    of disruption and steer it to where they and their sugar daddy Uncle Sam wants it to go.   Right now Venezuela is being
    subjected to a form of the Maidan violence.   But distributed and not localized.   There is also economic sabotage.
    In Ukraine the western, Lviv centered, gusanos paralyzed its development and eventually got what they wanted,
    a coup to seize all power.   Ukraine was at the same level as Russian in 1991 and as of 2013 had only a third of its
    GDP per capita.

    I expect there to be a coup in Venezuela sooner rather than later.   The conditions for this coup are being created
    by all the crime and economic disruption designed to poison the people against their elected government.   Once
    they finally swallow the shit, they will have leaders who do not represent them but a small clique and the USA.
    The pattern in Latin America for most of the 1900s.

    This is sad.

    That is why the business needs to be stripped away from these groups and moved to nationalists. They need to mimic what these businessmen do in terms of making the money, but do it without being subjugated to outside pressure.

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