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    Venezuela crisis

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    Will usa be successful in installing it's puppet

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:21 am

    Excellent analysis.

    The U.S. has been intervening in oil-rich Venezuela since at least the early 2000. Several U.S. backed attempts to oust the elected socialist government, first under Chavez and then under Maduro, failed. But the economic sanctions by the U.S. and its lackeys have made the life for business and the people in Venezuela more difficult. With access to international financial markets cut off, the government did its best to work around the sanctions. It, for example, bartered gold for food from Turkey. But the Bank of England, which is custodian of some of Venezuela's gold, has now practically confiscated it.

    The Trump administration is launching another attempt to kick the elected government led by President Maduro out of office. Today the usually hapless opposition in Venezuela is set to launch another period of street riots against the government. It calls on the military to take over:

    Opposition leaders are also urging Venezuela's powerful armed forces to withdraw their support for Maduro. And they are taking their campaign abroad by lobbying foreign governments to cut diplomatic and economic ties with Caracas.

    On Tuesday, U.S. Vice-President Mike Pence said that Washington would support any effort by the opposition to form a provisional government to replace Maduro. Addressing average Venezuelans, Pence added: "We stand with you and we will stay with you until democracy is restored."

    President Trump is now expected to recognize the opposition leader in the National Congress Juan Guaidó, who does not have a majority in the country, as the nations president.

    But the National Congress no longer has legal power. In 2017 that role was taken over by the elected Constitutional Assembly, which supports the Venezuelan government. The Venezuelan Supreme Court ratified the change. That Guaidó may be called president by Trump does not make him such.

    Juan Guaidó, the self declared 'opposition leader', is just a telegenic stand in for the right wing leader Leopold Lopez, who in 2014 was jailed after inciting violent protests during which several people died. Lopez, now under house arrest, is a Princeton and Harvard educated son of the political and financial nobility of Venezuela, which lost its position when the people elected a socialist government. Lopez is the man the U.S. wants to put in charge even while he is much disliked. A U.S. diplomatic cable, published by Wikileaks, remarks that he "is often described as arrogant, vindictive, and power-hungry".

    The poor were the winner of the socialist changes. The socialists, first under President Hugo Chavez and now under Nicolas Maduro, used the profits from oil exports to build housing for the poor and to generally lower their plight. These masses will be called upon to protect their government and gains.

    The military, which the U.S. already secretly tried to instigate stage a coup, is unlikely to do so. It does well under the socialists and has no interest in changing that. The U.S. also tried to incite Brazil and Columbia to invade their neighbor. But neither country is capable of doing such. The U.S. itself is also unlikely to invade. At the United Nation Venezuela has Russia's and China's support.

    Like in 2017 we can expect several weeks of violent protests in Caracas, during which tens or hundreds of police and protester may die. There will also be a lot of howling from the U.S. aligned media. But unless there is some massive change in the political and power configuration, the demonstrations are likely to petter out.

    Has the Trump administration a consistent game plan to achieve such a change in the balance of power? I for one doubt that.

    Posted by b on January 23, 2019 at 12:54 PM


    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/01/venezuela-us-again-tries-regime-change-it-is-likely-to-fail.html#more
    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:25 am

    Russia had a long time to pressure Maduro to do something - arrange Putin's visit to Caracas or alternatively, invite Maduro to Moscow. Tell him to make deep reforms of legal and economic system or otherwise we withdraw support. Send economic advisors from Russia and arrange some aid deliveries if necessary.

    Don't blame people that they hate Maduro - he gave them enough reasons to be hated. To have 2nd largest oil reserves in the world AND YET have critical lack of food and medicines and a near warzone level of crime (100 murders pers100k, it was 3x lower in late 1990s)... it takes serious insanity. Like this:

    Maduro may actually end up like Hitler.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:26 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Russia had a long time to pressure Maduro to do something - arrange Putin's visit to Caracas or alternatively, invite Maduro to Moscow. Tell him to make deep reforms of legal and economic system or otherwise we withdraw support. Send economic advisors from Russia and arrange some aid deliveries if necessary.

    Don't blame people that they hate Maduro - he gave them enough reasons to be hated. To have 2nd largest oil reserves in the world AND YET have critical lack of food and medicines and a near warzone level of crime (100 murders pers100k, it was 3x lower in late 1990s)... it takes serious insanity. Like this:
    ......
    Maduro may actually end up like Hitler.


    That ship has sailed, there's nothing Russia can do now directly

    Maybe if Maduro & Co somehow survive this and stabilize situation then they can use that window of opportunity to slap some sense into them by I doubt it will happen
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:38 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Don't blame people that they hate Maduro - he gave them enough reasons to be hated. To have 2nd largest oil reserves in the world AND YET have critical lack of food and medicines and a near warzone level of crime (100 murders pers100k, it was 3x lower in late 1990s)... it takes serious insanity.

    Probably food issues may be partially solved if Vene people stop illegally selling food to Colombia.

    Or probably Maduro should enact complete land redistribution because the wealthy landowners are among the most vocal oppositions.

    Agriculture problem and many of Vene's economic issues persisted long before Chavismo and it is not fair to put all the anger and upset onto Maduro et al. And guess who are the people (inside Vene and outside Vene) that allow Vene's economic problems to persist during the pre-Chavismo governments ?

    Looking at the US clowns in the opposition movement and do people seriously believe that Vene can get any better if Maduro is ousted ?
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:05 am

    ..invite Maduro to Moscow.
    If leaves now, it'll be easier to oust him, & that's why he won't go abroad during crisis.
    If Maduro goes, Russia will lose the only Ally it has in South America, it will lose the investments it has in Venezuela, plus the military base that they might have gotten.
    They'll still have Nicaragua & Cuba; S. America's geopolitical position is too remote to be of any significance &/ to make any difference for Russia vs. the US, esp. after Brazil under Mr. Balsonaro went back to the US camp. Otherwise, Russia would've gotten more involved by now.
    IMO, in the long run, the best way for Venezuela is to reunite with Colombia, like they were under Simon Bolivar. Both hosted refugees from each other in the past, & their economies will complement each other.

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:44 am

    This time more is at stake than just geopolitical alignment. A different president, even a US-backed one, is still better than Maduro & Co. It doesn't take a genius to understand what has happened to that country and what will happen if they keep ruling.

    So what you are saying is that the US ability to crush little countries should mean they shouldn't bother with elections as their leaders should be directly appointed by some low level fag bitch at the US state department...

    What they need is a little revolution and the proUS big business people creating these problems should be given fair trials and then executed for the cowardly traitors they are.

    Venezuela needs to do what Turkey did and have a good clean out of its military forces and start over... they need to cancel all ties with the US... which would make sense seeing as how the US has frozen $6 billion dollars in profit that was supposed to go to the Venezuelan government for oil sales.

    His incompetence is reason enough to drop him. Unless Russia wants the entire Venezuelan population to despise them for helping keep this idiot in power.

    He was voted in... if you think it is OK for the US to demand he stand down, then I guess you supported the US coup in the Ukraine to put Poro into power right?

    Hmmm... I wonder who they will pick to rule Serbia and take Serbia into NATO and the EU as whipping boy and cannon fodder?

    If you have food then communism is best way to end up with no food.

    Oh do fuck off... the western media jumping up and down claiming he is a communist dictator also think you are serbian scum who murders poor innocent Albanians who are rosie cheeked innocents... you bastard... Razz

    If you don't have food then communism is best way to starve to death.

    Yeah, perhaps nationalising the food system in Venezuela is the only way to break the US siege of the country...

    Venezuela doesn't have food so it's best not to tempt fate because it will end horribly as always.

    Who told you they don't have food?

    The food production and distribution in Venezuela is in private hands so if it is failing then it is capitalism that is the problem... there is no communism in Venezuela. Stop drinking the fucking Kool Aide...

    I am not a hardcore fan of the Chavismo but then if Maduro have to step down then you have to seriously think about who will replace him. Somebody who are able to fix the issues, not someone who are controlled by CIA.

    They already tried to kill him a couple of times... of Maduro steps down Venezuela will go back to being a poor backward shithole with no future...

    Hooray democracy.

    A US backed one is not better, the problem is not Maduro and Co., it is the US, meddling in Venezuela. If a US backed puppet comes into power, do you really think that the lives of the people will improve? No, they won't improve, it will get worse, as the puppet will just "give" all of Venezuela's oil and other resources to the US.

    When Maduro was elected, the people saw what a US backed puppet would do, so that is they elected Maduro.

    But if the US gets its way then the country becomes a utopia of democracy and wealth.... Like Haiti...

    I got you covered dude:

    I would like to see a source for that please... I could get photos from the last 20 years showing large gatherings in Russia for various events and photoshop them together to prove the huge public outrage at Putin and a demand that the Russian government resign and hand over control of Russia to NATO...

    Russia had a long time to pressure Maduro to do something - arrange Putin's visit to Caracas or alternatively, invite Maduro to Moscow. Tell him to make deep reforms of legal and economic system or otherwise we withdraw support. Send economic advisors from Russia and arrange some aid deliveries if necessary.

    Why do you think it is the position of Russia to tell Venezuela how to run their fucking country...

    Don't blame people that they hate Maduro - he gave them enough reasons to be hated. To have 2nd largest oil reserves in the world AND YET have critical lack of food and medicines and a near warzone level of crime (100 murders pers100k, it was 3x lower in late 1990s)... it takes serious insanity. Like this:

    Your ignorance is amusing... the socialist government of Chavez and now Maduro got elected BECAUSE they have been using profits from oil sales to build houses for the poor, hospitals, schools etc etc... something the US backed puppet would not even consider doing... he will sell off Venezuelan oil to US oil companies and the people would get nothing...

    Except you have no excuse if you read Johns post above yours so you actually knew what was really going on there...

    Maduro may actually end up like Hitler.

    Do you work for the US State department?

    Maybe if Maduro & Co somehow survive this and stabilize situation then they can use that window of opportunity to slap some sense into them by I doubt it will happen

    They know what they are doing... they need the British censored to release THEIR money so they can continue to spread the benefit of their oil sales to all of the people of Venezuela instead of just a few as would happen under the US puppet they likely already have lined up.

    Or probably Maduro should enact complete land redistribution because the wealthy landowners are among the most vocal oppositions.

    Agriculture problem and many of Vene's economic issues persisted long before Chavismo and it is not fair to put all the anger and upset onto Maduro et al. And guess who are the people (inside Vene and outside Vene) that allow Vene's economic problems to persist during the pre-Chavismo governments ?

    That is the perfect reaction to the US and rich land owners in Venezuela trying to stop his government distributing some of the oil wealth to the poor people of Venezuela... confiscate the land and create a real communist state... then they can call him a communist all they want...

    Otherwise, Russia would've gotten more involved by now.

    Russia needs to step up and say... the US is interfering in Georgia and Ukraine and other places near Russia including the Baltic states so we are going to directly help out our buddies in Cuba and Venezuela and other central and south american countries... don't like it... then back off of us and them and we will back off too.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:10 am

    The US, Colombia & Brazil then would set up a naval & air blockade, stopping all Russian & Cuban ships & planes from coming anywhere close to her coast & airspace. The US has troops in Colombia now, can deploy fighters there & to GITMO in Cuba & Puerto Rico.
    W/o the Adm. K CBG, AF, army & marines going there, their involvement won't be sustainable & won't be worth any blood or treasure.
    OTH, if there's a civil war, the whole region will be affected & the N. Americans will have to foot the bill eventually, like the do with their imposed Mexican "war on drugs" that is a low intensity civil war by any1s definition. Trump is now using it to justify building a border wall/fence & is arm twisting the Congress with the government shutdown for the $Bs he wants for it.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:49 am

    https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201807041066042453-venezuela-western-media-reporting/?fbclid=IwAR3lywgr9vajKsGjIaWgOR7Hn4AvX5kK0Zl4KoT2doVq6VWfgziCJQoWhf4

    EXCLUSIVE: Why Everything the Western Media Tells You About Venezuela is Lies

    Over the course of two tumultuous decades, the US government has determinedly endeavored to destabilize, undermine and ultimately depose the democratically-elected government of Venezuela without pause. First they came for Hugo Chavez, then his successor Nicolas Maduro.

    One wouldn't be able to discern this iniquitous reality from mainstream Western news reporting, however. Alan MacLeod, an academic specializing in media theory and analysis — and member of Glasgow University's respected Media Group — set out to discover why.

    In search of answers, he compiled 501 articles, both news reports and opinion pieces, on Venezuela published in American and British newspapers during four pivotal periods in the country's recent history — Chavez's election as President in 1998, the failed April 2002 US-orchestrated right-wing coup, his death in 2013, and the incendiary, blood-spattered opposition protests of 2014. He also conducted extensive interviews with many journalists and academics covering events within and without Caracas.

    His findings are compiled in the book Bad News from Venezuela: Twenty years of fake news and misreporting — speaking exclusively to Sputnik journalist Kit Klarenberg, he summarizes the most shocking.

    A Few Bad Men

    Prior to 1998, mentions of Venezuela in the Western media were rare — upon the election of Chavez, and the resultant revolutionary changes his government instituted, the country was catapulted to the top of the mainstream news agenda, where it remains to this day.

    The radical President was a very divisive figure the world over from the day he took office — as Alan records, some viewed his new government as an inspirational model to follow, others that that it had transformed Venezuela into a "veritable terror state," that should be "invaded forthwith."

    "I found almost all mainstream media reporting on Venezeula post-Chavez's election, seemingly irrespective of the apparent ideological inclination of the newspaper, offers a massively limited viewpoint, heavily focused on the negative end of the spectrum. Often this reporting has been contrary to the best empirical evidence available — studies conducted by the United Nations and the World Bank, for instance — which showed many positive things were happening in the country. Western journalists have almost uniformly presented Venezuela as sliding into dictatorship," Alan told Sputnik.

    n a sense, media misrepresentation of Venezuela shouldn't surprise — for one, the smearing of governments and leaders threatening to the US Empire's commercial and financial interests in Latin America has a long and established history. Guatemala's Jacobo Arbenz, Cuba's Fidel Castro, Chile's Salvador Allende and Nicaragua's Sandinistas were all subjected to intense media vilification during their periods in power. However, Alan notes structural issues within the news industry also play an increasingly pivotal role in distorting media reportage.

    "There've been huge cuts to journalism budgets in recent years, and mainstream outlets increasingly rely solely on major news agencies — Reuters, Bloomberg — for their information about foreign countries. As a result, a tiny cadre of Westerners — perhaps only a dozen people — are the source of most of the world's news about Venezuela. Furthermore, Bloomberg and Reuters have themselves outsourced much of their own reporting to local Venezuelan journalists, who are uniformly antagonistic to Chavez and Maduro," he explains.

    Alan interviewed many of these journalists for his book, and documents how some were heavily and unashamedly involved in various attempted coups launched against Chavez over the years. Some even "proudly boasted" of themselves as the "ideological spearhead" against the Chavista movement — but despite their questionable histories, they are invariably presented as neutral, objective on-the-ground observers when they surface in the Western media.

    Moreover, Alan says Western journalists who live in Venezuela reside in the east side of Caracas, in guarded citadels among the country's financial elites, rarely if ever venturing into working class areas of the city. As a result, it seems to them every Venezuelan hates the government — because everyone in the small societal subset they meet does hate the government.

    Even reporters sympathetic to Chavez admitted they frequently engaged in self-censorship, due to the antagonistic atmosphere of the newsrooms they work in. For instance, former FT journalist Matt Kennard told Alan he was acutely aware there were stories he should never pitch to his editors, because "he knew he couldn't say anything other than Chavistas are some sort of Nazi blitzkrieg, wreaking havoc on the country".

    Some of Alan's interviewees even admitted to disseminating 'fake news' — stories which were at best twisted massively to misrepresent the truth, or at worst had zero basis in fact. One bragged of how he'd gotten a story about a condom costing US$755 in Venezuela into the Western media.

    Many such fictions abound in mainstream reporting on Venezuela, even when they're retracted by the outlets that originally published them. For example, a fantastical story about a large box of McDonald's fries costing US$126 in Venezuela — "based on willing, deliberate misinterpretation of the multi-tiered exchange rate the country uses," Alan says — is still invoked by Western journalists in stories critical of the policies of Chavez and Maduro.

    A Tale of Two Leaders

    When Chavez died in 2013, the reaction from much of the world was one of deep and cohering sadness. Bolivia's President broke down and cried on television, saying his country was "destroyed" by the news, but Chavez would "remain an inspiration to the peoples struggling for liberation" against the US. President Correa of Ecuador called him "a great Latin American, a great human being" who "the whole world will recognize for greatness and courage."

    The governments of Argentina, Brazil, Chile, the Dominican Republic Ecuador, Haiti, Peru and Uruguay all declared three days of national mourning in response, Nicaragua and Bolivia declared a week, Cuba two days, Suriname one — more countries in total than declared days of national mourning after the death of Nelson Mandela.

    However, as Alan's work makes clear, mainstream coverage of his death almost universally stated Chavez had been a dangerous, fascistic lunatic. The Guardian's Rory Carroll, the paper's lead reporter on Venezuela 2006 — 2012, said "millions" of Venezuelans "detested him as a thug and charlatan", and his passing would be an occasion "to bid, vocally or discreetly, good riddance".

    The Times presented Chavez to its readers as a dogmatic, violent narcissist, "[fascinated] with the sound of his own voice" who "went out of his way to attack…business leaders, bankers, newspaper owners, trade union bosses…even the Catholic Church". In a separate article that day, the paper further presented Chavez as full of "idiotic bombast" and suffering from a "Christ complex". Many other papers were similarly quick to engage is pseudo-psychological diagnosis of Chavez, portraying him as bedevilled by various deleterious mental disorders.

    The Independent quoted a psychiatrist who said the deceased leader was a "narcissist", "impulsive", "temperamental" and "hypersensitive to criticism". The Daily Telegraph called him the "Latin American Kim Jong-il" — a "shrewd demagogue" who "failed to create an upsurge in employment", although UN figures show unemployment halved under Chavez, from 15 percent in 1999 to 8 percent in 2012. It also said he was "no intellectual", despite Chavez being a university lecturer before becoming president.

    In the US, the New York Times published two strongly critical obituaries. The print version said "Chavez's dramatic sense of his own significance helped him to power as the reincarnation of the liberator Simon Bolivar — he even renamed the country", although in reality, the Venezuelan people voted in a 1999 referendum to rename the country the 'Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela'.

    Chavez's legacy, the paper continued, was "decay, dysfunction and blight that afflict the economy and every state institution".

    However, it was The Miami Herald which published the most negative obituary of all. Entitled "Venezuela's Hugo Chavez and his legacy of plunder", it described Chavez as having "methodologically [destroyed]" Venezuelan democracy through rewriting the constitution, "rigging elections" and stifling adversaries. As a result, Venezuela became, "a polarized society divided between intolerant supporters of Chavez's Bolivarian Revolution and a democratic opposition that, against all odds, has waged a courageous fight for a democratic alternative".

    Flying the Coup

    Such journalistic savagery was perhaps to be expected — the only truly surprising thing for Alan is Western reporting was somehow even more critical than the spirited condemnations of the fallen leader issuing from US government spokespeople, and Venezuela's right-wing opposition elements.

    A similar tendency was nonetheless also evident in Western reporting on the abortive 2002 coup d'etat which removed Chavez from power for 47 hours. While the scale of US government involvement in the action remains unconfirmed, it is certain key figures involved — including Pedro Carmona, the country's unelected leader during Chavez's brief time out of office — were hosted by senior US officials in the months before it occurred. In Washington, these individuals met with key figures in the US military and intelligence nexus, who all had extensive histories of involvement in Latin America's various US-directed 'dirty wars' in the 1980s.

    Moreover, via Freedom of Information requests, Venezuelan-American journalist Eva Golinger uncovered how the Central Intelligence Agency was well aware of the plot in advance. In an intelligence brief entitled 'Venezuela: Conditions Ripening for Coup Attempt' dated April 6, 2002 — five days before the coup was carried out — Agency staff explicitly state a coup was set to take place, staged by "dissident military factions, including disgruntled senior officers and a group of radical junior officers". In an attempt to provoke military action, the plotters would "try to exploit unrest stemming from opposition demonstrations." The events of April 11 2002 would follow this plan to the letter.

    Upon the restoration of Chavez as President, his government was quick to suggest US involvement was highly likely. In response, Alan says newspapers dismissed this position as mindless conspiracy theorizing, "believed only by a few paranoid lunatics". All reporting stuck to the standard line — one fundamentally assuming unwavering American benevolence.

    "The media said Iran, Iraq and Cuba all claimed it was a US plot — by implication, something only Ayatollah Khomeini and Saddam Hussein believed, but it was a factual point. Weeks later it became clear the coup was US-sponsored, which the New York Times and Washington Post did acknowledge — by saying Washington appeared to send a positive message to the coup plotters. So just for a short time, the US only gave the appearance of being on the wrong side. As ever with Venezuela, the media was presenting fact as accusation, and accusation as fact, as and when it suited them," Alan despairingly told Sputnik.

    Just under 12 years later, the streets of Caracas were again host to violent protests — and again Western journalists determinedly dismissed any notion of Western involvement in or direction of the insurrectionary activities of opposition elements. The Times said Maduro had "gone out of his way to inflame tension by making wild allegations the protests are an attempted coup by the far-right with backing from the US".

    For its part, the New York Times said the Venezuelan government was "sticking to the old script".

    "Venezuela is falling victim to a fascist conspiracy cooked up by American officials who are terrified of its revolutionary aspirations…the claim is outlandish, yet its ceaseless repetition reveals that to the Venezuelan government, all dissent is treason," its article continued.

    Western media reporting of the protests also sought to portray protesters as "paragons of virtue," Alan says — a motley bunch of "peaceful model citizens standing up for their rights". A Daily Telegraph article described them as "family matriarchs carrying bibles after mass" being met with "barrages of tear gas" fired by government forces.

    In reality, the protests had an extremely violent component, which included the beheading of passing civilians, and attacks on kindergartens, universities and health clinics. Visiting Cuban doctors were a particular target of demonstrators, with 160 being assaulted — protesters even attempted to burn some of them alive. Little if any of these reprehensible activities were given more than a passing mention in the Western media — while conversely opposition protesters killed or injured in the chaos were featured prominently and discussed in detail.

    Similarly, there is little to suggest the protests were particularly widespread — in fact, they were fairly small, and largely restricted to wealthy districts of Venezuela. Predictably though, the media presented the strife as countrywide, and popular.

    Manufacturing Consent

    While a depressing state of affairs for anyone anywhere interested in the truth, Alan's forecast for the future of Western media reporting on Venezuela offers no respite — "this is going to continue happening, and perhaps get worse."

    "What makes this all the more egregious is such a distorted picture isn't inevitable — alternative media outlets, such as Al Jazeera, The Real News, Democracy Now, RT and Venezuela Analysis for instance, are home to much more balanced coverage. My advice is to read information offered by a number of sources, often published in parts of the world without major geopolitical interests that are opposed to the Venezuelan government. If you rely solely on western mainstream sources, you'll keep getting the same distorted picture and story," Alan concludes.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:01 am

    You know who is supporting US in this? No other than Navalny. He went on Twitter agreeing with Trump on this. I guess he is hoping Trump will declare Masha 2% as president of Russia? Wonder if Papa will then state that he is legit? Anyway, I hope it happens so that Navalny ends up dead or in jail for being retarded and trying something stupid
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:45 am

    The latest: https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/14244

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/01/venezuela-crisis-latest-updates-190123205835912.html

    https://therealnews.com/stories/coup-in-progress-in-venezuela-trnn-live
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    ATLASCUB

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    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:15 pm

    As long as he's got the army on his side he'll be Okay and weather the storm. This is not the first storm since Chavez took power. I mean Chavez was even taken out for a time.

    Cubans learned a lot throughout the years... they understand very well that the American system of governance that's widespread in all of Latin America is flawed and ripe for divide and conquer. That's why left and nationalist movements have a hard time maintaining countries on a defined path. The moment the right takes power - every major progress reverses - overwhelming majority of the cases. Argentina is back to being an IMF slut for fucks sake....

    The oligarchic right easy folds and sells out - there are always cracks to exploit. Russians shouldn't be criticizing jack shit since they folded harder and have a traitorous liberal elite as well. That Russia is 40 times richer than Venezuela with a civilizational inheritance of accumulated knowledge that gives them a leg up in development is only what divides Russia from colonial outposts like Venezuela.

    Throughout all these years the Cubans rightly nurtured the importance of having the Venezuelan army in the fold and the importance of having loyalist on all major key positions. There is always the chance of a traitor doing some backstabbing which is why the Cubans assist their security services (you could say they pretty much created a new one for Venezuela - since whatever they had was a joke) and run their own parallel to the official one as well to avoid getting compromised + freedom. This for a cash strapped island. Nicaragua and Angola were great test bed in the 80/90s and South Africa as well when Mandela took power... hush hush of history of Cuban cooperation to get these states on the right footing.

    Venezuela's weakness is that it's surrounded and has open borders, one with America's anchor in the region Colombia. Easy to corrupt, buy off, and destabilize a country that throughout all its history has suffered from massive corruption. Add open borders and a hostile neighbor - you compound the issue twofold. Add Brazil to the pack and now all pieces are in place for Washington. It's now or never per say (but they'll try again if they fail - the dollar is not dying any time soon).

    The Constituent Assembly was Maduro's way of trying to modify this system, with Cuban input, to lessen this threat. Now members of the assembly will better represent the constituents and be free from the shackles of the bought and paid for opposition leadership.

    That the Venezuelan "revolution" has lasted this long is a testament to a work well done. A lot of exiles scheming however, on top of the internal traitors, plus the sellout neighbors.

    If you really look at it, Venezuela, Colombia and Ecuador should be one big country unified. But you're never gonna have some moment of relative peace between them - enough for this sort of integration as long as the United States exist in imperial capacity... so they're the most convenient rivals you can find.

    You look at Brazil and how the head of the army pretty much demanded the judiciary to not even dare release Lula etc...PT got played in all angles and easily deposed... and the U.S threw all its weight in as well. PT leadership tried to play by the rules and got taken to school. Now Brazil has a neoliberal puppet who will aid his master in every possible way while getting shafted by the U.S from behind. Just wait until China and the U.S make a deal. If they do, Brazil's commodities are the ones to get hurt worse (Russia will be affected to - in the sense that it's better if China and the U.S are at their throats and China opens it market for Russian goods, to substitute American goods).... but puppets are traitors by nature so. Same with Argentina. All that market share that will be devoted to American goods will be taken from others already occupying that space... and these clowns still lick Washington's boot. Not to mention the tariff slaps from Trump...

    As for Russia abandoning Venezuela by serving Maduro on a silver platter....that would be one of the biggest strategic blunders Putin could make. Even if the U.S offered concessions on Ukraine Russia shouldn't bite the bait. Make the U.S earn Venezuela back, gets it name on the mud and dirty if it wants it back and make it as hard as it can. The idea that there will be a Venezuela to go back to if the current political power gets deposed is an illusion. The U.S will make sure another Chavez doesn't come up for a longggggggggg time - completely securing its backyard.

    Russians should start to understand that the U.S will NOT stop being a problem for Russia until they're taken down from their perch as the reigning imperial power. They've to be knocked hard and paralyzed for decades and kept down by whomever rises from their ashes to claim global leadership. Otherwise they'll have a smooth recovery and become a problem again. Deals with the Americans are only meant, in the first place, to further extend America's dominance, they don't make deals for any other reason. Russia doesn't need to make deals for Ukraine if it concerns strategic imperatives of this nature. Ukraine will fall..... one way or another.


    Last edited by ATLASCUB on Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python on Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:30 pm

    The US is being the US of course.

    But screw Maduro

    No reason to stand up for a corrupt, incompetent dictatorship-in-making that has squandered its country's oil wealth.
    Hopefully Russia will steer clear.
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    Post  BKP on Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:59 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    Hopefully Russia will steer clear.

    Nope:

    "... we have always supported and will support friendly Venezuela that is our strategic partner." --Sergei Ryabkov, Deputy Foreign Minister

    Hopefully, the Russians realized that flying the two swans in there might trigger this long-in-the-works CIA/deep state attack, and have prepared effective contingency plans.


    Didn't realize there were so many boosters for US-directed regime change frequenting this site.
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:09 pm

    From a man who clearly understands that the U.S. has no friend, only vassals and colonies.

    http://www.radio.gov.pk/24-01-2019/erdogan-offers-support-for-venezuela-maduro?fbclid=IwAR01PGY5sklEQ7uhSsTFsD1caUoBTU22OvC0inFOYtCHwD5sUB2WZlhwuNQ

    Erdogan offers support for Venezuela Maduro

    Turkey has supported Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro after a Venezuelan opposition leader declared himself interim president.

    Turkish presidential spokesman Ibrahim Kalin's said on Twitter that Turkish president said Maduro brother, stand tall, Turkey stands with you.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python on Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:16 pm

    Yeah yeah, poor innocent victim Maduro, targetted by foreign aggression, never did nothing to nobody

    It's not that I'm a proponent of US regime change, it's just that I won't shed a tear for any of these people - that took one of South America's wealthiest countries and drove it into the ground.
    They have it coming.
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:22 pm

    Venezuela is a launching point and the natural choice (besides Brazil) for regional integration. Under Chavez a great many things were accomplished for a time. While the flawed system of governance of these nations + the remnants of the oligarchic right were able to retake power in strategic pieces of the puzzle, internally the countries are changed forever. They've tasted the forbidden fruit. The template has been laid out. The U.S can't have little to no resistance to erase everything. The PT is dormant in Brazil and so is the Kitchner apparatchik in Argentina - biding time and regrouping (both won't forget - but someone has to hold the fort). Sooner or later they'll regain power in some form. In Colombia, of all places, the seeds are well planted. Mexico of all places went left - finally, if only earlier and is at its infancy. The region needs time. The dominance of the North on the South is rather unnatural, for the region shares a universal language only divided by arbitrary borders and cultures made of tin can heroes - which the U.S cheered on to their strategic benefit. You do have to give them that... the foresight.

    Regional integration ala what Chavez/Fidel were building = diminished U.S dominance over the region and globe, greater competition for them = diminished U.S economic dominance and greater chances for growth in trade for other great powers that challenge Washington. When Obama came to power and refocused from Iraq the first bullet to stop the train was fired at Honduras - now a hell hole. The bullets have kept on coming since.

    China will be key in this. If they fold/blink for some "trade pressure" release or cause they're "checkmated" in Taiwan they'll make a serious mistake as well. Who buys the Venezuelan Oil that the U.S buys will be key among other things.

    Not every country gets to have a Putin/Chavez/Fidel back2back.... rarely does that ever happen. Middle of the pack leaders taking the mantle will always under perform compared to historic leaders. That does not mean you default and hand your enemies everything on a silver platter.... what sort of defeating moronic idea is that? Nations everywhere have flawed leadership, much much worse than Venezuela. They're not getting coups for geopolitical reasons, internal destabilization macro-managed from abroad, sanctions etc...

    If they get to Venezuela, Bolivia and Nicaragua will be next. And then it will be Cuba - the prize, the eternal cancerous spine to the U.S in the region. I can bet you a lot modern Russia won't pick up the tap and ship oil at preferential trade to Cuba like Venezuela does. Hand the region to the U.S and where do you think they'll focus their efforts 100% next? Plenty of subject matter ripe for the picking around Russia... still not strong enough, not even close to former glory.... having massive trouble coping and keeping its backyard clean and uncle-sam hands-free. Strategic depth is not even in the Russian vocabulary anymore - that's how dire it's. At least economically, for the most part, Russia is progressing.
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    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:33 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Yeah yeah, poor innocent victim Maduro, targetted by foreign aggression, never did nothing to nobody

    It's not that I'm a proponent of US regime change, it's just that I won't shed a tear for any of these people - that took one of South America's wealthiest countries and drove it into the ground.
    They have it coming.

    I disagree.

    The problem of Venezuela's economy is not created by Maduro or the Chavismo. Long long before Chavez the Venezuela was already notorious for its policy of oil-dependence and ignoring everything else.

    197x oil crisis hit Venezuela dearly.

    At least under the Chavismo the profit of selling oil is being used for social welfare, housing, healthcare, public services rather than for the money pocket of the neo-imperialists. And at least under Chavismo, the core sectors of the economy are not under the influence of foreign imperialists.

    The Chavismos didn't touch with the rich landlords and the wealthy domestic businessman, and these people repay that kindness by supporting the opposition. As far as I know there are hints that these people even exacerbate the situation by taking part in illegal trading of consuming goods. On my opinion, I think Maduro should do things the hard way to them.

    "these people that took one of South America's wealthiest countries and drove it into the ground" you mentioned, I think they are actually the opposition faction funded by the U.S.

    Chavismo haven't managed to fully fix the core issues of Vene's economy ? Probably. But oppositions funded foreign imperialists never desired fixing the issues, either. What they want is sucking the nation dried for their masters.
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    Post  Kimppis on Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:03 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Yeah yeah, poor innocent victim Maduro, targetted by foreign aggression, never did nothing to nobody

    It's not that I'm a proponent of US regime change, it's just that I won't shed a tear for any of these people - that took one of South America's wealthiest countries and drove it into the ground.
    They have it coming.

    This.

    Looking at the US clowns in the opposition movement and do people seriously believe that Vene can get any better if Maduro is ousted ?

    Well, technically... of course! For Venezuela's economy, literally anything would be better than the current mess. Getting rid of the current insanity and any external restrictions would probably make a big difference already...

    When it comes to socialism's achievements in Venezuela, what exactly is left? We "regime change supporters" atleast realize it's not 2013 anymore. In fact, it's far from it. And Sputnik, for fucks sake. So it's a lie that Venezuela's economy is a total fucking disaster at the moment? I'm not denying media bias towards Venezuela, but come on...

    And mike, are you seriously suggesting that Russia is somehow analogous to Venezuela? If Navalny is really that unpopular (which he is, roughly anyway), why is he such a threat? Venezuela is a shithole banana republic. Russia is that only in neocons' dreams. Despite undeniably being a US puppet, this Guaidó guy has to be MUCH more popular in Venezuela than Navalny (or any other pro-Western liberal, though Navalny isn't actually that liberal, but that's another topic...) has EVER been in Russia. So what is Maduro's actual popularity at the moment? It can't be too high.
     
    I don't wish for a regime change and I realize any alternatives to Maduro are US stooges, but Venezuela is, again, a shithole that is too far away from both Russia and China. I'm not going to virtue signal about it, all I care about is balance of power, and Venezuela makes little difference either way. And most crucially, If shit really hits the fan, how exactly is anyone going to support Maduro? It's America's backyard and Venezuela is now surrounded by hostile powers.

    EDIT:

    ATLASCUB wrote:Hand the region to the U.S and where do you think they'll focus their efforts 100% next?

    That's probably inevitable anyway. Brazil and Mexico in the long-term have some potential to act independently, but all these midgets like Cuba... They'll fold eventually. There's nothing anyone can do about that, without a civil war in the US, or something.  

    Plenty of subject matter ripe for the picking around Russia... still not strong enough, not even close to former glory.... having massive trouble coping and keeping its backyard clean and uncle-sam hands-free. Strategic depth is not even in the Russian vocabulary anymore - that's how dire it's. At least economically, for the most part, Russia is progressing.

    So you are seriously suggesting Cuba's "resistance axis" has been keeping Uncle Sam busy all these years? Oh yeah, makes perfect sense! Rolling Eyes Only Cuba stands in the way of America's global hegemony.... In all seriousness, it's obvious that Cuba and other Latin American... "challengers" haven't limited US global power projection one bit. And that will not change. It's China's economic domination in particular and its focus on area denial in the Western Pacific that matter.

    higurashihougi wrote:Chavismo haven't managed to fully fix the core issues of Vene's economy ? Probably.

    That would the understatement of the century. Again: it's 2019, not 2013.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:26 pm

    Midgets like Cuba have been fighting off US attempts before you were born child.
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    Post  higurashihougi on Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:03 pm

    Kimppis wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:Hand the region to the U.S and where do you think they'll focus their efforts 100% next?

    That's probably inevitable anyway. Brazil and Mexico in the long-term have some potential to act independently, but all these midgets like Cuba... They'll fold eventually. There's nothing anyone can do about that, without a civil war in the US, or something.

    Yet that "midget" resist U.S. power with extraordinary willpower and resilience, even in the hardest situation after USSR collapsed, even in "America's backyard" and "surrounded by hostile powers". Meanwhile Brazil has just had a Trump fanboy as president.

    Cuba will not fold as long as there are people who consider it as a reliable ally and continue assisting their cause... in fact there long struggle against U.S. hegemony proves that Cuba is worth being supported.

    It is not easy to find such an ally in this era when in many of the cases, people are opportunistic and are eager to change friends in the same manner of changing clothes.

    Kimppis wrote:Well, technically... of course! For Venezuela's economy, literally anything would be better than the current mess. Getting rid of the current insanity and any external restrictions would probably make a big difference already...

    Do you really expect that the US-supported figures are going to improve the manufacture sectors and agriculture of Venezuela, to diversify it from oil selling, to spend the government's profits to maintain healthcare, public services, electricity, education ?

    History showed that the people who put "external restrictions" on Vene love spineless banana republics rather than countries with independent and sustainable economy.
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    Post  Aristide on Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:03 pm

    France and the EU dont accept Maduro as president of Venezuela and support the oppossition

    https://www.france24.com/en/20190124-venezuela-france-macron-calls-election-maduro-illegitimate-protests-opposition-guaido

    Good move.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:18 pm

    The US Strategy for Regime Change in Venezuela

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/01/venezuela-crisis-latest-updates-190123205835912.html

    views from Russia: http://www.ng.ru/world/2019-01-24/1_7491_venesuela.html?print=Y

    http://www.ng.ru/world/2019-01-24/6_7491_maduro.html?print=Y


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:02 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:06 pm

    Venezuela is another Cuba. Venezuela used to be pro America and bought F-16. The day Venezuela cut diplomatic relation with Israel was the day Venezuela became another Cuba.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:35 pm

    BKP wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    Hopefully Russia will steer clear.
    Nope:

    "... we have always supported and will support friendly Venezuela that is our strategic partner." --Sergei Ryabkov, Deputy Foreign Minister...

    Words are cheap




    BKP wrote:Hopefully, the Russians realized that flying the two swans in there might trigger this long-in-the-works CIA/deep state attack, and have prepared effective contingency plans.
    ....

    If they knew that it would trigger this (it didn't) then maybe they should have skipped that little field trip




    higurashihougi wrote:.......
    The problem of Venezuela's economy is not created by Maduro or the Chavismo. Long long before Chavez the Venezuela was already notorious for its policy of oil-dependence and ignoring everything else.....


    Well in that case why wasn't solving this food crisis first order of business for commies once they took over?
    With all that oil money from 100$/barrel era they should have had no problems.

    How do you fu*k up this bad? Again, in tropical climate and access to ocean.
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    Post  Aristide on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:57 pm

    ultimatewarrior wrote:Venezuela is another Cuba. Venezuela used to be pro America and bought F-16. The day Venezuela cut diplomatic relation with Israel was the day Venezuela became another Cuba.
    You say Israel put Maduro into power so he ruins Venezuela?

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