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    ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

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    d_taddei2

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    Re: ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:59 pm

    whats peoples views on

    zsu-23-4M (MANPAD) upgrade
    zu-23-2M1 (radar and fire control upgrade)
    zu-23-2M1 (as above with added Igla missiles)
    zu-23-2-ZOM1 (as above but Igla missiles replaced with strella 10 missiles)

    i actually think if you already have zu-23-2 & zsu-23-4 that there decent upgrades especially the zu-23-2 if mounted on truck, MT-LB, typhoon family, vodnik, bulat, tigr etc. and if upgraded using verba even better.

    these upgrade systems could be applied to other existing systems such as zpu-1/2/4, S-60, 61-k, zsu-57-2, KS-30, KS-19, 52-K, and all these systems can be mounted on a variety of vehicles, the last three systems Iran already has a solution to these the Sa-ir is based on the KS-19 100mm self loading, radar controlled could easily be applied to other systems and add the additional missiles. this would greatly improve short range capabilities of armed forces although some of these systems range beyond 10km upto 15km which pretty decent range. and could a cheaper alternative to buying completely new systems. And this is more aimed at those who already have the base systems or an armed forces looking for cheap short range air defence systems. And of course any MANPAD could be used doesn't have to be new systems if they already have Sa-7/Sa-14/Sa-16/Sa-18,or any other MANPAD can be used.
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    GarryB

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    Re: ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:53 pm

    I don't see anything wrong with upgrading those older vehicles, but the 23mm cannon was replaced by 30mm for lots of good reasons that are still relevant.

    Also MANPADS lack range and are not very cheap... if you want to add some missiles then the Kornet-EM is one interesting option to allow engagement out to 10km with HE Frag rounds, or the SOSNA-R would be even better as it also has a 10km range and the same laser beam riding guidance, but has the enormous benefit of being a two stage missile with a booster stage that accelerates it to very high speed... instead of taking almost a minute to get to 10km it takes about 12 seconds...

    The other bonus is that the Kornet and the SOSNA are relatively cheap.
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    George1

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    Re: ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

    Post  George1 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:39 am

    Mobile Gun Mount SAMUM Shown at Army-2018 Forum

    The Podolsk Mechanical Plant brought the mobile multipurpose artillery gun SAMUM to the Army-2018 forum. Designers say it is the kind of artillery the future belongs to.

    The presented car is equipped with antiaircraft mount ZU-23/30M1-4. It is designed for protection of assets from assault aircraft, helicopters and UAVs acting at low and ultra-low altitudes. The antiaircraft mount can also hit the light-armored ground targets in limited visibility conditions. The mount can fire at the targets in automatic, semi-automatic and manual modes.

    The module is mounted on the all-wheeled driven armored rover. To turn at 180°C, it only needs a clear space of 11 meters in radius. The mount can be controlled even by one operator, by changing the driver's seat and the passenger’s seat equipped with the screen and the fire remote control system.

    "I think this is a great advantage. Army is more and more interested in convenient and safe warfare methods", Vladimir Chizhov, director of design bureau at the Podolsk Mechanical Plant told Mil.Press Today.

    The vehicle is protected by class 3 armor. It stands machinegun or sniper rifle bullets. According to designers, the armor can be optionally reinforced, but in this case SAMUM may become heavier and less maneuverable.





    http://mil.today/2018/23111/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=rss&utm_campaign=miltoday
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:56 pm

    George1 wrote:Mobile Gun Mount SAMUM Shown at Army-2018 Forum

    The Podolsk Mechanical Plant brought the mobile multipurpose artillery gun SAMUM to the Army-2018 forum. Designers say it is the kind of artillery the future belongs to.

    The presented car is equipped with antiaircraft mount ZU-23/30M1-4. It is designed for protection of assets from assault aircraft, helicopters and UAVs acting at low and ultra-low altitudes. The antiaircraft mount can also hit the light-armored ground targets in limited visibility conditions. The mount can fire at the targets in automatic, semi-automatic and manual modes.

    The module is mounted on the all-wheeled driven armored rover. To turn at 180°C, it only needs a clear space of 11 meters in radius. The mount can be controlled even by one operator, by changing the driver's seat and the passenger’s seat equipped with the screen and the fire remote control system.

    "I think this is a great advantage. Army is more and more interested in convenient and safe warfare methods", Vladimir Chizhov, director of design bureau at the Podolsk Mechanical Plant told Mil.Press Today.

    The vehicle is protected by class 3 armor. It stands machinegun or sniper rifle bullets. According to designers, the armor can be optionally reinforced, but in this case SAMUM may become heavier and less maneuverable.





    http://mil.today/2018/23111/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=rss&utm_campaign=miltoday


    I like it obviously for export and at least crew are now protected and can have the upgrades liked added manpads. Could be useful for convoy protection as well.

    As u mentioned a while ago a single 30mm gun version with manpads would be even better. But this is likely aimed at those forces using zu- 23-2 already


    The good thing about this remotely controlled mount is that it could be mounted on anything bmp/btr/mtlb/typhoon/tigr/bpm/vodnik/trucks/small ships
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    GarryB

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    Re: ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:46 am

    Previously the Soviets used the Zu-23 system on the flat bed of a truck, or on the top of an APC, but this seems to be better in terms of it being fully remote control so no exposed gunners, with some small arms protection for the crew.

    The fact that it is on the back of a vehicle means it should be highly mobile too... able to roll into a position... fire a few bursts and then drive away to another position... which should further improve safety and impact on the battlefield.

    Can't really see what optics it has, but as it is vehicle mounted I would have changed the belt feed system so that it carried rather more ready to fire rounds... perhaps large ammo bins either side of the gun and lower it a bit...

    Maybe even add a water cooling system for the barrels...

    The seats next to the guns seem to still be in place, which would probably be fine in the manual operation of the system.

    I must say that a twin 30mm version would be more effective, with better range and hitting power... and also the option of air burst ammo that would be particularly effective against UAVs and other small point targets that are otherwise hard to hit.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:42 pm


    Air burst ammo and MANPADS are redundant here

    Let's not kid ourselves, this thing is made for removing infantry from existence not aircraft
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:58 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Air burst ammo and MANPADS are redundant here

    Let's not kid ourselves, this thing is made for removing infantry from existence not aircraft

    Basically a gucci version of what rebels and SAA have been using. Making it look more professional and better armour and no gunner exposed hey why not its proved it's worth in syria iraq Libya
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    Isos

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    Re: ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

    Post  Isos on Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:07 pm

    They could have improved the munition capacity.the two boxes looks small for 23mm rounds.
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    Hole

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    Re: ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

    Post  Hole on Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:45 pm

    50 rounds per box.
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    Isos

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    Re: ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

    Post  Isos on Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:31 pm

    Hole wrote:50 rounds per box.

    What is the rate of firing ? This is really nothing. It's not a WW2 manned system. It is all automized, the guy only push buttons. They could put easily a big box with 500 rounds on that thing and no need to recharge every 2 minutes. Specially if there are many targets.
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    GarryB

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    Re: ZSU-23-4 AA Gun: Views

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:29 am

    Air burst ammo and MANPADS are redundant here

    Let's not kid ourselves, this thing is made for removing infantry from existence not aircraft

    It says in the description that this system is intended to be used against low flying aircraft, helicopters, and UAVs and also ground targets.


    For the latter two roles air burst ammo offers the best performance as it does not require a direct hit to damage the target... airbursting shells over enemy troops or amongst UAVs is vastly more effective than trying to hit small targets directly...

    Basically a gucci version of what rebels and SAA have been using. Making it look more professional and better armour and no gunner exposed hey why not its proved it's worth in syria iraq Libya

    Something Russian troops can use on Russian air fields with much better accuracy and greater protection for the troops using it... while being rather cheap and simple and multi purpose at the same time.

    They could have improved the munition capacity.the two boxes looks small for 23mm rounds.

    Agree... 100 rounds would be plenty for ground targets as you would only fire in very short bursts, but for aerial targets you would fire rather more ammo... so bigger ammo bins and perhaps water cooled barrels...

    What is the rate of firing ?

    The rate of fire is 800-1,000 rpm per barrel normally... so 12-16rps per barrel.

    Against ground targets normally a fraction of a second burst is used however...

    It really comes down to what sort of automation there actually is... does it have a laser range finder that calculates trajectory and aim points and the gunner just fires, or is it manually aimed?

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