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    Viktor
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    History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Viktor on Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:14 pm

    Battle of Paris (1814) the date was 31.03.1814 when Russian Emperor with 100 000 strong army entered Pariz and passed through Arc de Triomphe  Very Happy 

    The capture of Paris (1814) - LINK


    and in a State Duma entered a law proposition to name that date as a date of Military Glory


    To the State Duma suggested to make a capture of Paris day of military glory


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    History of Russia Thread

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:23 am

    Do not miss this colorful documentary of the history of Russia..
    Subscribe to youtube channel [ StarMediaEN ]
    for a full selection of their documentaries..

    No idea how accurate is all.. but still interesting.

    chapter 1


    chapter 2 to 8 also in that channel..

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuSx-lf2ft7hPceGVNHybOw


    Last edited by Vann7 on Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:59 pm

    Great documentaries - really great by a big G.

    If only Alexander II lived a bit longer or didn't have reactionary nutcases as successors, Russian history would take a different route.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:05 pm

    Lothar von Trotha wrote:Great documentaries - really great by a big G.

    If only Alexander II lived a bit longer or didn't have reactionary nutcases as successors, Russian history would take a different route.

    im in chapter 4 ,and it seems the  Documentary was not made by Russian Government official sources. still is nice..
    but for example it mentions Ukraine as if was another country when in reality Ukraine was just a zone of Russia ,not even a city. Just a name to identify it was the border of Russia with Europe. But the visual presentation of the report
    is well made..

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  HeNeArKrXeRn_ on Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:33 pm

    Vann7 wrote:Do not miss this colorful documentary of the history of Russia..
    Subscribe to youtube channel [ StarMediaEN ]
    for a full selection of their documentaries..

    No idea how accurate is all.. but still interesting.

    chapter 1


    chapter 2 to 8 also in that channel..

    link

    This youtube channel is full of great historical documentaries.

    There is a 4 part documentary about the Napoleon's invasion of Russia:
    /playlist?list=PLhuA9d7RIOdYFTqb0vPlK06PreQQTeMLI

    and IIRC they are currently working on one covering the Napoleaonic wars after the Russian campaign.

    Their masterpiece, and what made me discover them, is the 18 part doc about the the Great Patriotic War:
    /playlist?list=PLhuA9d7RIOdaJ8jAIBVwV3ToGxzo3AK0h

    also they all have english subtitles if not dubbed.

    (add the youtube-dot-com to the beggining of the link)

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Khepesh on Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:24 pm

    This documentary series by Leonid Parfenov is good, a little bit light hearted, but factually correct and entertaining. With English subtitles


    Also this series by Nikita Mikhalkov, "Русские без России" - "Russian without Russia", about the Whites in the civil war, the evacuations and subsequent life in exile and, for some, return after 1991. Emotional scenes in the final episode of return of various imperial regimental regalia to Russian embassador to France and Putin's speech at the Russian cemetery in Paris. I cannot find a version with subtitles, a pity, as this is very good, only good thing Mikhalkov has done, IMO...

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    Russia before Communism

    Post  andalusia on Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:26 am

    Some right wing Americans criticize the Russian Communist Revolution and defend the Tsarist government that existed before.  I want to know what was the Tsarist government really like? Many libertarians criticize the Revolutions in Russia, China, and Cuba but are silent about the oppressive social, political, and economic conditions that existed before? From what I have read on the internet, Russia was close to modern Brazil back then; a large rural and extremely poor working class that lived in shantytowns and a rich elite. There was virtually no middle class.  If that was the case; I can see the appeal of Communism.

    Moreover, how many support the rhetoric of Marxism about the conditions of the poor and wanting to improve their conditions but reject the application of Communism as a vehicle to improve it? Do any of you all support a free enterprise with sensible regulations and a safety net for the poor? I think that is much better. Of course even if someone supports a more moderate form of capitalism here in the west; One often hears the criticisms of "you are a socialist or you are a communist" rhetoric among far right wingers. I think such opinions are stupid.

    But anyway would like a good assessment of Russia before 1917 under the tsars.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:50 am

    andalusia wrote:Some right wing Americans criticize the Russian Communist Revolution and defend the Tsarist government that existed before.  I want to know what was the Tsarist government really like? Many libertarians criticize the Revolutions in Russia, China, and Cuba but are silent about the oppressive social, political, and economic conditions that existed before? From what I have read on the internet, Russia was close to modern Brazil back then; a large rural and extremely poor working class that lived in shantytowns and a rich elite. There was virtually no middle class.  If that was the case; I can see the appeal of Communism.

    Moreover, how many support the rhetoric of Marxism about the conditions of the poor and wanting to improve their conditions but reject the application of Communism as a vehicle to improve it? Do any of you all support a free enterprise with sensible regulations and a safety net for the poor? I think that is much better. Of course even if someone supports a more moderate form of capitalism here in the west; One often hears the criticisms of "you are a socialist or you are a communist" rhetoric among far right wingers. I think such opinions are stupid.

    But anyway would like a good assessment of Russia before 1917 under the tsars.
    It was a mostly rural, peasant country for sure, but with the fastest industrial growth in the world in the late 19th-early 20th centuries. Serfdom was abolished around 1860, and this improved the conditions of many peasants. Most peasants were very poor compared to Western Europeans, but anyway there were a few who were rich, others who could be considered middle class (small landowners), and literacy was also growing fast among peasants and workers. I know a woman whose parents were Byelorussians (Russian-speaking) and moved to Argentina in the 1920's - they were peasants, literate and owned their land, and had good cultural and material life conditions before the revolution. The reforms put in practice by prime-minister Stolypin in the early 20th century gave arable lands in Southern Siberia and low-interest credits for peasants, which also improved their condition. Revolutionaries were so afraid of Stolypin reforms because, if successful, it would delay or simply abort the revolution they were fighting for (revolutionaries, either liberal or socialist, are evil because they necessarily need the conditions of the people to be extremely bad, otherwise no revolution will ever occur), and he was assassinated by an anarchist in Kiev. Last, there was a thriving middle class in cities, consisting of traders, doctors, professors, lawyers, etc.
    Does this mean that everything was perfect in Russia, that everyone was happy before the Revolution? Of course not, there was a lot of injustices, inequalities and oppression, from which revolutionary feelings bred. But the Bolsheviks, striving for a "perfect" society, only made things worse, and a terrible terror regime under Lenin and Stalin came upon Russia that caused dozens of millions to die, many of the brightest people to emigrate, a situation much worse than anything the previous tsars and emperors had ever done, even those considered the bloodiest ones, like Ivan IV. Russia is nowadays in a current difficult demographic situation mostly due to the Bolsheviks - not only the terror from 1917-1953, but also legal abortion and low birth rate have decimated Russian population. Before the Revolution, Russia had a very fast growing population.


    Last edited by Svyatoslavich on Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:05 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Few typing errors)

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  kvs on Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:11 am

    Here is some more context. The revolutionaries who were basically engaged in terror in Russia during the late 1800s where
    exiled to Siberia but not to concentration camps under the Czar's "regime". Dostoyevsky was one such trouble maker. During
    the Red Terror which lasted until basically the middle 1950s millions were sent to the gulags merely for having different views
    from the regime. They were not engaged in terrorism and killings. So the "oppression" of the Czar's "regime" was like a slap
    on the wrist, but Soviet oppression meant death. And death in the millions.

    Right now Russia is experiencing the best conditions it has had in its history in terms of freedom and democracy. It really
    is an epic renaissance considering the toilet it was in for so long. The demonization of Russia's duly elected leadership and
    the brazen lies about Russian life and politics in the west are 1984 level.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:10 am

    kvs wrote:Dostoyevsky was one such trouble maker.
    True. But he repented and became a good Orthodox and monarchist. Most of his works are about the psychology of Russian revolutionaries in the 19th century, especially "The Demons" (Бесы), and this allowed him to prophetize many of the terrible events of Bolshevism. Reading his books gives a tremendous, though also terrible, insight on the bloody mishaps of Russia in the first half of the 20th century.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  kvs on Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:21 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    kvs wrote:Dostoyevsky was one such trouble maker.
    True. But he repented and became a good Orthodox and monarchist. Most of his works are about the psychology of Russian revolutionaries in the 19th century, especially "The Demons" (Бесы), and this allowed him to prophetize many of the terrible events of Bolshevism. Reading his books gives a tremendous, though also terrible, insight on the bloody mishaps of Russia in the first half of the 20th century.

    I just noted his name as an example. Thanks for the additional background. Under the Soviets he would have not gotten his
    life back.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:26 am

    Under the Soviets he would have not gotten his
    life back.

    See, now this is a huge part of the problem... the actions of Stalin are considered Soviet and Gorbachev and other later leaders are ignored.... yet they were all Soviet leaders...

    there were dozens if not hundreds of Soviet Dissidents that were not killed, though some did go into exile they were hardly working in salt mines...


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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:25 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    See, now this is a huge part of the problem... the actions of Stalin are considered Soviet and Gorbachev and other later leaders are ignored.... yet they were all Soviet leaders...

    there were dozens if not hundreds of Soviet Dissidents that were not killed, though some did go into exile they were hardly working in salt mines...
    It is true and I won't deny it, after Stalin, and especially after Khrushchev's thaw, the Soviet Union became a more normal country. It was an oppressive dictatorship, far from being the free and fair country that the revolutionaries had promised, but at least there was no terror and people knew that, if they followed the party line and behaved well nothing would happen to them. Also, most dissidents were not assassinated or tortured, some were allowed to emigrate (like Solzhenitsyn), and even those who were sent to prison didn't have to face horrible conditions as those in the Gulag during Stalin's era.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:15 pm



    Between the 18th century and 1917 the Russian Empire was essentially a German-run semi-colony; the empire was dominated by a small parasitic ethnic German element.


    It is the Bolsheviks who ended it and made Russia into a superpower.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:44 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:

    Between the 18th century and 1917 the Russian Empire was essentially a German-run semi-colony; the empire was dominated by a small parasitic ethnic German element.


    It is the Bolsheviks who ended it and made Russia into a superpower.

    Bolshevics are the responsible scum that started with the Terror and genocide.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:07 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:

    Between the 18th century and 1917 the Russian Empire was essentially a German-run semi-colony; the empire was dominated by a small parasitic ethnic German element.


    It is the Bolsheviks who ended it and made Russia into a superpower.

    Bolshevics are the responsible scum that started with the Terror and genocide.


    Says who?

    http://asaland.proboards.com/thread/38/german-crimes-soviet-pows-poland

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:20 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    andalusia wrote:Some right wing Americans criticize the Russian Communist Revolution and defend the Tsarist government that existed before.  I want to know what was the Tsarist government really like? Many libertarians criticize the Revolutions in Russia, China, and Cuba but are silent about the oppressive social, political, and economic conditions that existed before? From what I have read on the internet, Russia was close to modern Brazil back then; a large rural and extremely poor working class that lived in shantytowns and a rich elite. There was virtually no middle class.  If that was the case; I can see the appeal of Communism.

    Moreover, how many support the rhetoric of Marxism about the conditions of the poor and wanting to improve their conditions but reject the application of Communism as a vehicle to improve it? Do any of you all support a free enterprise with sensible regulations and a safety net for the poor? I think that is much better. Of course even if someone supports a more moderate form of capitalism here in the west; One often hears the criticisms of "you are a socialist or you are a communist" rhetoric among far right wingers. I think such opinions are stupid.

    But anyway would like a good assessment of Russia before 1917 under the tsars.
    It was a mostly rural, peasant country for sure, but with the fastest industrial growth in the world in the late 19th-early 20th centuries. Serfdom was abolished around 1860, and this improved the conditions of many peasants. Most peasants were very poor compared to Western Europeans, but anyway there were a few who were rich, others who could be considered middle class (small landowners), and literacy was also growing fast among peasants and workers. I know a woman whose parents were Byelorussians (Russian-speaking) and moved to Argentina in the 1920's - they were peasants, literate and owned their land, and had good cultural and material life conditions before the revolution. The reforms put in practice by prime-minister Stolypin in the early 20th century gave arable lands in Southern Siberia and low-interest credits for peasants, which also improved their condition. Revolutionaries were so afraid of Stolypin reforms because, if successful, it would delay or simply abort the revolution they were fighting for (revolutionaries, either liberal or socialist, are evil because they necessarily need the conditions of the people to be extremely bad, otherwise no revolution will ever occur), and he was assassinated by an anarchist in Kiev. Last, there was a thriving middle class in cities, consisting of traders, doctors, professors, lawyers, etc.
    Does this mean that everything was perfect in Russia, that everyone was happy before the Revolution? Of course not, there was a lot of injustices, inequalities and oppression, from which revolutionary feelings bred. But the Bolsheviks, striving for a "perfect" society, only made things worse, and a terrible terror regime under Lenin and Stalin came upon Russia that caused dozens of millions to die, many of the brightest people to emigrate, a situation much worse than anything the previous tsars and emperors had ever done, even those considered the bloodiest ones, like Ivan IV. Russia is nowadays in a current difficult demographic situation mostly due to the Bolsheviks - not only the terror from 1917-1953, but also legal abortion and low birth rate have decimated Russian population. Before the Revolution, Russia had a very fast growing population.
    Is it wrong to say that assassination of Stolypin was the worst thing that happened to Russia before WWI? Everything that I have read about him say that he was very capable and pragmatic national leader, and his competence kept Nikolai II:s stupidity in check. Once the Bolsheviks assassinated him the country was set back and taken over by less capable leaders.

    If Stolypin had lived longer is it possible that Russia would have avoided joining the WWI and the Bolshevik revolution altogether? In this alternative history Russia would be a totally different place today.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:23 pm

    kvs wrote:Here is some more context.   The revolutionaries who were basically engaged in terror in Russia during the late 1800s where
    exiled to Siberia but not to concentration camps under the Czar's "regime".  Dostoyevsky was one such trouble maker.  During
    the Red Terror which lasted until basically the middle 1950s millions were sent to the gulags merely for having different views
    from the regime.   They were not engaged in terrorism and killings.   So the "oppression" of the Czar's "regime" was like a slap
    on the wrist, but Soviet oppression meant death.   And death in the millions.

    Right now Russia is experiencing the best conditions it has had in its history in terms of freedom and democracy.   It really
    is an epic renaissance considering the toilet it was in for so long.   The demonization of Russia's duly elected leadership and
    the brazen lies about Russian life and politics in the west are 1984 level.
    One thing to remember is that if the current Fifth Column in Russia by some miracle would rise to power they would so no leniency to it's opponents. Probably millions of Russians would be imprisoned or killed by them. The best Russian people would either die or go to exile and Russia would be taken back by a century. It would be a similar catastrophe that was the WWI and the Bolshevik Revolution was a hundred years ago.

    These people are guided and controlled by the West and the West would make sure that they inflict the maximum damage to Russia.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:26 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    kvs wrote:Dostoyevsky was one such trouble maker.
    True. But he repented and became a good Orthodox and monarchist. Most of his works are about the psychology of Russian revolutionaries in the 19th century, especially "The Demons" (Бесы), and this allowed him to prophetize many of the terrible events of Bolshevism. Reading his books gives a tremendous, though also terrible, insight on the bloody mishaps of Russia in the first half of the 20th century.
    Didn't Dostoyevsky predict the Bolshevik Revolution and the horrible things that Russia would go through because of it?

    Some people call him a "prophet" because of it.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:01 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    kvs wrote:Here is some more context.   The revolutionaries who were basically engaged in terror in Russia during the late 1800s where
    exiled to Siberia but not to concentration camps under the Czar's "regime".  Dostoyevsky was one such trouble maker.  During
    the Red Terror which lasted until basically the middle 1950s millions were sent to the gulags merely for having different views
    from the regime.   They were not engaged in terrorism and killings.   So the "oppression" of the Czar's "regime" was like a slap
    on the wrist, but Soviet oppression meant death.   And death in the millions.

    Right now Russia is experiencing the best conditions it has had in its history in terms of freedom and democracy.   It really
    is an epic renaissance considering the toilet it was in for so long.   The demonization of Russia's duly elected leadership and
    the brazen lies about Russian life and politics in the west are 1984 level.
    One thing to remember is that if the current Fifth Column in Russia by some miracle would rise to power they would so no leniency to it's opponents. Probably millions of Russians would be imprisoned or killed by them. The best Russian people would either die or go to exile and Russia would be taken back by a century. It would be a similar catastrophe that was the WWI and the Bolshevik Revolution was a hundred years ago.

    These people are guided and controlled by the West and the West would make sure that they inflict the maximum damage to Russia.

    You're perfectly right on that, I'll give you that much.

    It's always the ones who shield themselves under the cloak of righteousness, and democracy, and people-power; who turn out to be the most injust, the most undemocratic and the ones who give the least amount of damn about what the people think.

    The sort of people that took power in the Ukraine, and the slogans they went under, is the best recent example of this.

    To be democratic and just, or have any other good virtue - requires some principles; but such people don't have principles, they only have the objective of gaining power and then securing that power; and they will use whatever tool fits the bill; whether painting themselves as human-rights defenders, or assassination and killings - as needed.

    The 'liberals' in Russia (I put their title in quotes as in actuality they are anything but) know that they have little grass-roots support amongst the population; that most of their support will have to come from other countries, and that they will face much dissent and opposition at every turn even if they do come to power from both the common people and the rest of the elite - thus they will be the ones most motivated to use the harshest methods; political repression, violence, censorship and everything else.
    And this is all before any 'directives' or orders from their overseas sponsors even come into the equation - this is what they'll have to do everyday just to even keep themselves in power.
    Who the fk cares what the West says, letting such people into power will lead to a calamity that Russia hasn't suffered since the Civil War.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:18 am

    For the people really interested about the history of Russia..
    this is probably the best of the best detailed information of the real origins of Russia
    and what happened ,how it developed.. and it even explain ,about the main sources
    of Russia history ,from where all historians get their main info of What is Russia or how it developed.

    Is a really good historical revisit of Russia and very interesting analysis ,that helps to explain
    things like..

    1) how Russia became to exist ?
    2) The origins of Ukraine  ( the most likely ,probable origins)
    3)the Role of Jews in Russia empire.. (highly controversial ,must see ...will put you to think a lot
    to understand  Judeo Phobia ,when it began..and why..)  they gave troubles to Russia TSAR romanovs.. (alexander II and Nicholas II both murdered by Revolutionary Jews for example.
    Alexander was murdered by a suicide bomber that happened to be a jew from a radical jewish organization. .)
    4)The role of farmers /Serfs in Russia in Russian laws.. they gave troubles to the Russian empire too.
    5) Explain the Huge Contradictions with Ukrainians identity.. ie.. they praise in their currency
        Russian Heroes and many statues in Ukraine ,still honor them.. although they fought for
       Russia.
    6) and How sameRussian families ended fighting in opposites sides of Polish -Ruso war.
       Father against son.. and the role of womens in dividing them. Cool  
    7)and last video explain the biggest controversies about Jews ,that you maybe never heard off.
    and how Catherine the great and any following Russian Tzar never allowed jews to live near moscow and only allowed them to live at the borders of Russia with Europe.. today zone is called not Russia but Ukraine ..and perhaps Belarus and Crimea too.


    The history of Russia is worth of a holywood movie no kidding..
    the history revisit comes from a famous Russian Girl in youtube that have a channel and
    answer questions to anyone seeking to know more about Russia. ,that even though she speak in Spanish , the substitles are in english..at times in Russian too. ,She explain Russia history using video references edited by her and sometimes with humor .so it never gets boring..she is really smart girl and likes history.. you should subscribe to her channel , also explain the issue of Gays in Russia and Corruption in Russia. and other issues too.

    Is a Two part video.. the second video ,she revisit a few mistakes she made about Ukraine..
    so you need to see both parts to really get a very decent guesstimate of Russia history.
    Because as she explain , many of the books of early Russia history of the Romanov and earlier have been destroyed by the Bolsehvicks when took power in 1920's ,who wanted to get rid of
    Russia Imperial past.





    In another video in her channel she explain why Jews had problems in Russia.
    but also in all Europe.. so it was not just a Hitler thing..as we were told. and the banking
    Industry and media they controlled ,just like today they do..was one of the major reasons.
    but there was others too.

    Why Discrimination of Jews in Imperial Russia..





    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total

    andalusia
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    Russia before Communism

    Post  andalusia on Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:48 pm

    Thank you all for your comments.

    http://alphahistory.com/worldwar1/russia/

    When a corrupt and incompetent regime is removed, they don't just shrug their shoulders and say: 'well, it was good while it lasted'. All the people and organisations who prospered under them also want to protect their positions.

    The Civil War which followed the Revolution was largely fought between Bolsheviks and communists or 'white Russians'. Western countries sent forces, and they were not interested in building a nice, fair system that would bring prosperity to Russia- they would have simply re-installed the monarchy.

    It was simply too risky to keep them around.

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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  victor1985 on Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:02 pm

    I dont like monarchy. What the f...k mean royalty anyway?

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    Czarist Russia Stealing from Poland, and Re-labelling Treasures as "Kievian."

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:29 pm



    So the German-controlled Czarist regime stole ancient Terving Gothic treasures from Poland, and then, mis-labelled these archaeological findings as "from Kiev."


    "KAZANSKI: ...the collection of Zamostie [=Zamosc, Poland] in the Hermitage [in Russia] was published as coming from Kiev. In the report of the Archaeological Commission they believe that count Bobzinski correctly stated that it did not come from Kiev, it came from Bobzinski Zamostie. On the maps of the Russian Empire [published at that time] this is called Zamostie."




    https://books.google.ca/books?id=M0WnZ2vDfEkC&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108&dq=Zamosc+Gothic+Treasures&source=bl&ots=a375hMkVoH&sig=hEfkZB5Y3zdolESaIKX5UwqWwtA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCsQ6AEwA2oVChMIzMX2qbC4xwIVBJSICh2y8g1W#v=onepage&q=Zamosc%20Gothic%20Treasures&f=false



    Rather ironic considering the present situation between Russia and Ukraine.


    What was the point of enriching "your own" history at someone's expense?


    Will Russia return these mis-labelled treasures?

    kvs
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    Re: History of Russian Empire Thread

    Post  kvs on Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:52 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:

    So the German-controlled Czarist regime stole ancient Gothic treasures from Poland, and then, mis-labelled these archaeological findings as "from Kiev."


    "KAZANSKI: ...the collection of Zamostie [=Zamosc, Poland] in the Hermitage [in Russia] was published as coming from Kiev. In the report of the Archaeological Commission they believe that count Bobzinski correctly stated that it did not come from Kiev, it came from Bobzinski Zamostie. On the maps of the Russian Empire [published at that time] this is called Zamostie."



    https://books.google.ca/books?id=M0WnZ2vDfEkC&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108&dq=Zamosc+Gothic+Treasures&source=bl&ots=a375hMkVoH&sig=hEfkZB5Y3zdolESaIKX5UwqWwtA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCsQ6AEwA2oVChMIzMX2qbC4xwIVBJSICh2y8g1W#v=onepage&q=Zamosc%20Gothic%20Treasures&f=false



    Rather ironic considering the present situation between Russia and Ukraine.


    What was the point of enriching "your own" history at someone's expense?


    Will Russia return these mis-labelled treasures?

    Case closed, eh?

    People find some book that tells them what they want to hear and that is all they need.


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