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    Russian Economy General News: #4

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    Kimppis
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  Kimppis on Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:59 pm

    AbsoluteZero wrote:Yeah something doesn't seem right, Im pretty sure Saudi has a higher percentage of its economy that is reliant on oil sale, how come their currency isn't as badly affected like that of the rouble?

    Exactly. I don't remember the exact figure... was it that 20% of the GDP was based on oil and gas, but the value of the economy in dollar terms is now down something like -50%. How can this be the "true" value of the economy in dollars?


    Last edited by Kimppis on Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Viktor
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  Viktor on Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:08 pm

    Nice thumbsup

    Medvedev has approved four investment projects passport Railways


    The Russian government has approved the terms of remuneration of heads of state-owned enterprises

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:20 pm

    Kimppis wrote:
    AbsoluteZero wrote:Yeah something doesn't seem right, Im pretty sure Saudi has a higher percentage of its economy that is reliant on oil sale, how come their currency isn't as badly affected like that of the rouble?

    Exactly. I don't remember the exact figure... was it that 20% of the GDP was based on oil and gas, but the value of the economy in dollar terms is now something down like -50%. How can this be the "true" value of the economy in dollars?

    I dont fully understand it myself but I will try to explain it when I get home, as typing on my phone is very hard. Oil and gas account for 18% of Russias GDP. But is main export.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  Kimppis on Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:34 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I think it is because they have their currency tied to something and not free floating. What free floating has done was ease the fall of the oil value, preventing budget issues. Since Russias budget is in Rubles, well it makes sense. But it will destroy the import business/market in Russia that makes billions. It may (or may not, depending on how lazy and incompetent Russians are) mean much more money for domestic makers. But of course, nominal gdp will be effected because its all priced in USD and a drop in currency value automatically drops gdp nominal. A pointless measurement it seems sinse it isnt effecting Russias military production (almost no imports for that anymore).

    If Russia really wanted to, they can fix the ruble to assets and stop currency exchange. That will increase value of Ruble to forex but cause other issues like a drop in budget revenue, and hurt domestic manufacturers as imports will rule again and low oil prices will mean less for all.

    Makes sense. Just not good for prestige (lol). It just that to many people nominal GDP = the amount of national power. And I guess this crisis is a great example why that is BS. Russia didn't suddenly get 50% weaker. But according to russophobe trolls Putin will now have no "money" left for the military. Collapse is imminent. After all, 50% of the Russian economy just vanished. That what you do when you mess with the west. Or something like that... I've seen that kind of stuff already and probably going to just get worse.

    I added the following before reading the next post: (But the difference between Russia's nominal and PPP GDP is absolutely massive atm. By PPP they are the same size as Germany but nominally they are like Spain or South Korea right now. With the new calculations (or something) that were released last year, Russia and China, among other emerging markets, had a massive boost, Russia jumped from 2.8t to 3.5t, IIRC. And China is now bigger than the US, with 12K per capita PPP.)

    What do you think will likely happen in the future? Oil price and the economy will start recovering in a few years and with that the ruble? By 2018 we could see around the same (30) value to the dollar?


    Last edited by Kimppis on Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:49 pm; edited 3 times in total

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:40 pm

    Kimppis wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I think it is because they have their currency tied to something and not free floating. What free floating has done was ease the fall of the oil value, preventing budget issues. Since Russias budget is in Rubles, well it makes sense. But it will destroy the import business/market in Russia that makes billions. It may (or may not, depending on how lazy and incompetent Russians are) mean much more money for domestic makers. But of course, nominal gdp will be effected because its all priced in USD and a drop in currency value automatically drops gdp nominal. A pointless measurement it seems sinse it isnt effecting Russias military production (almost no imports for that anymore).

    If Russia really wanted to, they can fix the ruble to assets and stop currency exchange. That will increase value of Ruble to forex but cause other issues like a drop in budget revenue, and hurt domestic manufacturers as imports will rule again and low oil prices will mean less for all.

    Makes sense. Just not good for prestige (lol). It just that to many people nominal GDP = the amount of national power. And I guess this crisis is a great example why that is BS. Russia didn't suddenly get 50% weaker. But according to russophobe trolls Putin will now have no "money" left for the military. Collapse is imminent. After all, 50% of the Russian economy just vanished. That what you do when you mess with the west. Or something like that... I've seen that kind of stuff already and probably going to just get worse.

    What do you think will likely happen in the future? Oil price and the economy will start recovering in a few years and with that the ruble? By 2018 we could see around the same (30) value to the dollar?

    Dont know, but having a stronger ruble will hurt Russias domestic developers. Nominal gdp is a joke, gdp PPP makes more sense for Russia and is at over $3.5T. Reason why, they makes military products. Technically, Russian aircrafts are even cheaper now and has major potential for further sales. Since the rubles devaluation, UAC sales have been up. And the products for military goods has not technically changed, neither has the budget for it. What the westerners dont get is that Russias devalued currency doesnt mean they lost money, just means that imports now cost much higher. There is a lot more to it, but will take me forever to type it out on phone. Just go to wikipedia and read up on GDP PPP. There is a good quote regarding why they use that measurement.

    Prestige is a joke. I rather live in Russia making much less but pay less for basic staples and having no mortgage, than what I have now in Canada. As well, while majority of western countries wealth (maybe excluding Germany), the rest is all about banking. In order to get such growth, we gain deficites like you wont believe. Russias growth was real at least. Add to the fact that Russia produces their own nuclear tech, own tanks, aircrafts, helicopters, guns, ammo, radar and subsystems, automobiles and has the resources to make it all, I would say they are further ahead than half the world, especially western, cause they have hard assets that can carry them till their currency collapses to nothing, while the west has.... currency made of plastic and paper..... i rather have the hard assets than this paper.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:16 pm

    Any Canadians interested in a Russian Robotic Snowplow?


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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:23 pm

    Hell! Saudis take no prisoners! This is gonna be carnage, tight your belts!

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:26 pm

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-06/russian-default-risk-surges-new-6-year-highs-ruble-rubble-returns

    Good. If Russian private entities default, US and EU banks can kiss their loans to Russia, all $600B of it, goodbye.

    Maybe this is why they are panicking to reverse sanctions now. Cause if theu default, Russia loses chance for cheap credit. They already lost it though through sanctions. Nothing else to loose.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  par far on Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:12 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Hell! Saudis take no prisoners! This is gonna be carnage, tight your belts!


    So what are the dam Saudis gonna do?

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:28 pm

    It seems they will continue until the other major producers (USA, Russia) either bust their oil industry due to high extraction cost (USA) or go bunkrupt altogether (Russia).
    Already Cnada and USA production go down but they still push like hell!

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  kvs on Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:54 pm

    The nominal GDP is a worthless figure. How can some forex market evaluate the size of a country's GDP? It can't.
    It is just a confidence game. The typical forex player is some nitwit who actually believes that Russia is like Saudi
    Arabia and is nothing without its oil. Even Obammy said that Russia produces nothing. And everyone knows that
    Obammy can't lie and has infinite knowledge.

    Suppose the ruble fell to 1000000 per dollar. Then let's have some rich consortium try to buy Russia using dollars.
    The first thing that will happen is that the exchange rate will adjust dramatically. Just like with stocks the nominal
    "wealth" of the stockholder is theoretical and not actual. As soon as the stock owner tries to unload his stocks,
    their value plummets. You could claim that he should sell his shares in small amounts over a period of time. But that
    is not the point. If the stocks had intrinsic value then it should make no difference how they are sold. The intrinsic
    worth of the ruble is not set by the forex market.

    PPP GDP is the only objective metric. Nominal GDP is subjective and based on the voodoo thinking in the forex market.
    Perhaps the fish head market, or the recycled condom market should decide the GDP. Clearly this is nonsense.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:02 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:It seems they will continue until the other major producers (USA, Russia) either bust their oil industry due to high extraction cost (USA) or go bunkrupt altogether (Russia).
    Already Cnada and USA production go down but they still push like hell!

    Well, they can try to bankrupt someone whos oil only accounts for part of that 18% of gdp. Lol. Have fun saudi arabia. All at the same time, internal unreast will rear its ugly head as the shias will revolt and so will others when the free handouts dry up. I imagine this will last till fall this year and they will be forced to reduce production.

    Apparently Saudi arabia lost asian market, hence they raised the value of oil to asia. Chinas majority of import is Russia now since they increased imports of it.

    Edit: I would also like to point out that Canada's oil companies are fine. Only issue is there will be some layoffs and no further fields will be created till the price goes back up, but all the current wells will still be running and still be making money. Also, we are concentrating more on gas production as also another means of wealth. It will hurt Alberta because it is a one trick pony, but will create work in other provinces. There is the idea of building a pipeline from eastern Canada to western Canada and refining oil to petrol for other provinces to help reduce overall costs for average person while raising volumes.

    Russia apparently is facing a petrol glut (prices are raised as petrol supplys are lower thus price increase. When there is a demand to lower petrol prices) and Rosneft is being investigated and possibly sent to court in the anti monopoly board for trying to export petrol to highest bidders while there is a major glut within the country. http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/899511.shtml

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:55 am

    kvs wrote:The nominal GDP is a worthless figure.  How can some forex market evaluate the size of a country's GDP?  It can't.
    It is just a confidence game.   The typical forex player is some nitwit who actually believes that Russia is like Saudi
    Arabia and is nothing without its oil.   Even Obammy said that Russia produces nothing.   And everyone knows that
    Obammy can't lie and has infinite knowledge.

    Suppose the ruble fell to 1000000 per dollar.  Then let's have some rich consortium try to buy Russia using dollars.
    The first thing that will happen is that the exchange rate will adjust dramatically.   Just like with stocks the nominal
    "wealth" of the stockholder is theoretical and not actual.   As soon as the stock owner tries to unload his stocks,
    their value plummets.  You could claim that he should sell his shares in small amounts over a period of time.   But that
    is not the point.  If the stocks had intrinsic value then it should make no difference how they are sold.   The intrinsic
    worth of the ruble is not set by the forex market.  

    PPP GDP is the only objective metric.   Nominal GDP is subjective and based on the voodoo thinking in the forex market.
    Perhaps the fish head market, or the recycled condom market should decide the GDP.   Clearly this is nonsense.

    Exactly.

    Iran, has a GDP Nominal of a little over $400B but its GDP PPP is a little over $1T.  Reason is, even though Rial is a currency worthless to USD (25,000 Iran Rials for 1 USD), it is still the currency used within the country, and all products sold within the country.  That said, Iran produces home appliances, electronics like Cell phones, TV's and the like, Automobiles, food and food byproducts (very important), Petrol and Pharmaceuticals.  All of these are based upon Iranian wages and materials used, and a little bit of profit.  All of this has allowed people to purchase goods that are needed or they want at a very reduced price.  It also became cheap for foreign enterprises to build equipment in this country to sell to domestic market.  LG makes phones in Iran for instance, and thus Iranian's have access to foreign products but at a greatly reduced price.  They also make Nissan automobiles as an example.  Not everything is perfect as toilet paper for example costs a lot as it is mostly imported (seems to be a common issue, Iran, Venezuela and the likes all lack toilet paper.  Bet a company that makes it would be rich real quick that is will to export to these countries).  But for the most part, because most to all basic staples are available and made in the country, their money will take them far.  Iran is one of the largest steel consumers in the world because they are always manufacturing anything from toolings, automobiles, heavy equipment and military equipment.

    Russia produces all the same, things like TV's, phones, tablets, cars, computers, etc. Yes, a lot of the components are imported but that can also change as Russia produces MRAM (a form of memory), and microprocessors of various types (VLIW, SPARC, MIPS, etc all except CISC). Russia also produces lighting technology like LED, OLED, and can make displays as well. Consumer goods are usually other brands manufactured in the country like fridges and alike. In past, majority of its market was heavily flooded with foreign goods but as those goods dwindle, there will be a demand for them, and domestic brands will take over or more foreign companies will open manufacturing of their brands in the country (like Great Wall making an automotive plant). Russia though manufactures very important goods like heavy machinery in Agriculture and Construction. These two are hugely important for any development of any country and a huge portion of such equipment are imported. Russia on the other hand imports little of it as they produce them themselves (Uralvagonzavod makes construction and agriculture equipment besides T-90 tanks). Companies like Mikron and Elveese produce semiconductors for various countries and hundreds of businesses, including military. Electrical companies like Rosatom and Power Machines are becoming big names as they are exporting like crazy (didn't even know this till recently from an engineer from Victoria, but we are using various power machine products as well. The new companies that are doing well so far are tooling companies and the acquired tooling companies in Crimea will be huge for Russia overall.

    What can now be really important for Russia, and if anyone here is interested in such development and should give it a try, are companies that connect buyers to manufacturers. Much like Amazon. It will be these type of companies that will do very well as some of the biggest consumptions of goods in Russia comes from Online sales. Other ones will be DIY stores much like a Home Depot or a Home Hardware store as it is a good way to sell raw products on the domestic market (wood, steel, other metals, glass, etc) and more people will go the DIY route in order to save money.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:23 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:

    Attacking Glazyev, from the likes of you? Stick to things you know best: clutching straws on things such as the moon landing, and how better looking French ships look compared to Russian ships, claiming the Nazi's and Hitler were the good guys (and you claim to be pro-Russian)... Rolling Eyes

    WTF.. when i said Nazis were "good guys".. there was no Good guys in world war 2.. only greedy people fighting for their interest. US and UK created Hitler.. and provoked world war 2.. with their sanctions on germany.. Just like today ,they are provoking world war3 with their sanctions on Russia..  Who dropped an atomic Bomb in Japan is not better than Hitler.. and Stalin , many say he was worse. CHurchil wanted US to nuke Russia and continue the war ,when they were rebuilding their nation..Not good guys dude in that war..  

    The only thing i said was that Hitler had at least ONE really good cause ,to fight the criminal Neoliberal jewish banking industry ..That today have hostage half of the world in terrorism and wars ,they provoked most Wars in the previous 100 years...If he had success wiping Britain and US military power.. the world will be much better place today ,much more balanced if he just fight the west. Stalin cause of naturally defending their nation was also good one... Ideally will have been better if Hitler just target the west and not Soviet Union.  But thats not the way things happened.. And Glazyev is a pathetic liar .. nothing of what he told is truth..  Neither Russian central Bank
    "works for the west" as so naive people have been fooled to believe.. neither it is blocking Putin orders of creating a payment system ,they are testing it.. and The central bank is moving away of US dollar..trading with CHina in rubles..  completely bypassing the American Dollar system..that throws away to the toilet all Glazyev conspiracy theories.  and he better stop giving his nonsense lectures confusing people.  yes moon landing was a hoax.. but lets not get that here.

    And yes im Pro Russia.. But i also have my preferences.. and i dislike half good things.. i only want perfection and nothing else. THings that impress  in every way ,shape or form possible . but lets not talk about that  here either.

    In other news.. France is pushing for Europe to Lift sanctions on Russia..

    http://itar-tass.com/en/russia/770407

    The news above is BIG DEAL.. this is why i try to avoid judgments on Putin policy on its foreign policy..
    because in moments like this , is when Russia needs to expand its relations to avoid being contained by US.
    like in soviet times. US have clearly failed to Isolate Russia from Europe.. And Putin correct moves have been the reason for it. US is creating a situation in Europe ,where they are the ones being isolated from the world..
    In the SYrian war UK backed down from supporting US war. and in the Ukraine war is france the ones backing down to support US. You definitively needs to give credit to Putin Policy ,,because is effectively splitting europe and making it very hard for OBAMA to isolate them from the west.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:28 am

    kvs wrote:The nominal GDP is a worthless figure.  How can some forex market evaluate the size of a country's GDP?  It can't.
    It is just a confidence game.   The typical forex player is some nitwit who actually believes that Russia is like Saudi
    Arabia and is nothing without its oil.   Even Obammy said that Russia produces nothing.   And everyone knows that
    Obammy can't lie and has infinite knowledge.

    Suppose the ruble fell to 1000000 per dollar.  Then let's have some rich consortium try to buy Russia using dollars.
    The first thing that will happen is that the exchange rate will adjust dramatically.   Just like with stocks the nominal
    "wealth" of the stockholder is theoretical and not actual.   As soon as the stock owner tries to unload his stocks,
    their value plummets.  You could claim that he should sell his shares in small amounts over a period of time.   But that
    is not the point.  If the stocks had intrinsic value then it should make no difference how they are sold.   The intrinsic
    worth of the ruble is not set by the forex market.  

    PPP GDP is the only objective metric.   Nominal GDP is subjective and based on the voodoo thinking in the forex market.
    Perhaps the fish head market, or the recycled condom market should decide the GDP.   Clearly this is nonsense.


    in my opinion.. The real Economy of a nation is the combination..

    1)Purchasing Power capability with its own currency on its own nation. How many warships and submarines
    Russian can make with a balanced budget.
    2)How self efficient is its industry in supplying all its needs..
    3)their nation debt how easy or hard is for them ,to pay their debts.
    4)Modernization of its cities and infrastructure.
    5)And last but also important.. People opinions of whether their nation is moving or not in the right direction.

    All of them for me are equally important.. and cannot be excluded. IF for example people public opinion is really bad
    (like happened to Ukraine) about their country.. this will create unrest.. and for a long time this unrest will disband their nation  .  If a nation is not self efficient and 100% dependent everything on exports..is a very weak economy.. that depends of others to carry them.. ie Saudi arabia.  And without modernization in cities..and good roads ,you don't attract business and investments in your country.


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    blast saudi oil

    Post  Manov on Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:16 pm

    In the realm of fantasy, if the Saudis plays even more dirty, maybe some covert spetsnaz can blow some oilfield in Saudi Arabia Smile (just kidding)

    Its a dangerous play for the Saudis, they are confident in their army and the friendship with USA Israel, but some well planned sabotages and tensions with Iran can make oil pricess pop if the situation becomes critical.  Russia knows this, and they are playing nice right now, but patience has limits. I think that Saudis look strong but they are deeply weak in the sense that the royal family is closely attached to the USA establishment and very often they do thing that are not good for the saudi people. When things like ISIS and Shia guerrillas, terrorist attacks, tensions with their neibourghs and eventual problems with their oil production, they will be in a very hard position and then, making friends with China and Russia will not look like a bad idea. It is a really complex issue.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:04 pm

    Well, well, well...look what we have here, apparently Atlantacist media had you thinking that Russia was the biggest loser from cheap Brent Oil prices, it looks like Atlantacists are now $200 billion in debt trying  to create their Shale 'pipedream' in North America, which is now going bust due to the fact that Brent Oil price is at such a low price:

    $200 bn in debt looms over American oil and gas

    ...Their speculative attacks against Russia are now backfiring... lol1 lol1 lol1

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:06 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Well, well, well...look what we have here, apparently Atlantacist media had you thinking that Russia was the biggest loser from cheap Brent Oil prices, it looks like Atlantacists are now $200 billion in debt trying  to create their Shale 'pipedream' in North America, which is now going bust due to the fact that Brent Oil price is at such a low price:

    $200 bn in debt looms over American oil and gas

    ...Their speculative attacks against Russia are now backfiring... lol1 lol1 lol1


    But don't celebrate too much...  I think they were ready to sacrifice the bankruptcy of many of their business in order to collapse Russia energy industry.. and hopefully bankrupt the nation.. I don't think they will win ,because Russia is not as dependent of energy sales alone as western media claims..aside that the cost of producing oil for Russia is very low $5 per barrel.. and as high as $15 per barrel in some places ,so Russia do have the capabilities to operate selling oil at just $20 per barrel for years contrary to USA and CANADA. In 1998 to 2003 oil price was from $15 dollars per barrel to $30 , the average was $20 and Russia managed it while in the middle of a war in chechenia.

    Today Russia have near 400 $ billions in reserves to finance their own energy industry.. and China a nation with 4 $ trillions reserves will not allow Russia economy to break..and will be ready to help..if they have the need.

    So pretty much US Gov is on a medium scale economic warfare against Russia.. and they are literary collapsing
    their own energy business to collapse Russia energy industry. Is a very risky game what they are playing.. because
    of the low debt of Russia and the low cost of producing oil for them and the backup they will have of China.
    The big risk is that Russia do not fall and they end with their energy industry destroyed.. and people move away
    of their dollar. Essentially starting the downfall of their world currency status.

    All this shows.. how really desperate are the AngloZionist elite to stop RUssia ,that are attacking their own energy
    business in order to damage Russia.

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:40 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Well, well, well...look what we have here, apparently Atlantacist media had you thinking that Russia was the biggest loser from cheap Brent Oil prices, it looks like Atlantacists are now $200 billion in debt trying  to create their Shale 'pipedream' in North America, which is now going bust due to the fact that Brent Oil price is at such a low price:

    $200 bn in debt looms over American oil and gas

    ...Their speculative attacks against Russia are now backfiring... lol1 lol1 lol1


    But don't celebrate too much...  I think they were ready to sacrifice the bankruptcy of many of their business in order to collapse Russia energy industry.. and hopefully bankrupt the nation.. I don't think they will win ,because Russia is not as dependent of energy sales alone as western media claims..aside that the cost of producing oil for Russia is very low $5 per barrel.. and as high as $15 per barrel in some places ,so Russia do have the capabilities to operate selling oil at just $20 per barrel for years contrary to USA and CANADA. In 1998 to 2003 oil price was from $15 dollars per barrel to $30 , the average was $20 and Russia managed it while in the middle of a war in chechenia.

    Today Russia have near 400 $ billions in reserves to finance their own energy industry.. and China a nation with 4 $ trillions reserves will not allow Russia economy to break..and will be ready to help..if they have the need.

    So pretty much US Gov is on a medium scale economic warfare against Russia.. and they are literary collapsing
    their own energy business to collapse Russia energy industry. Is a very risky game what they are playing.. because
    of the low debt of Russia and the low cost of producing oil for them and the backup they will have of China.
    The big risk is that Russia do not fall and they end with their energy industry destroyed.. and people move away
    of their dollar. Essentially starting the downfall of their world currency status.

    All this shows.. how really desperate are the AngloZionist elite to stop RUssia ,that are attacking their own energy
    business in order to damage Russia.

    I don't know if that whole raising oil production thing was deliberately targetted at Russia or not. I suspect it was, but in that case the irony would be if the US's own oil production tanks because of the low oil prices - that's ultimately going to lead to higher oil prices later on as the supply would go down while the world's demand will keep growing - and grow even faster in fact because of the low price of oil.

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    reply

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:31 am

    i read an article the other day it was saying that cracks are already starting to show in saudi's plans, even some of their own financial experts have expressed concern mainly due to the impact it will have on its own countries wealth, they have already said they will have to start using there money reserves in order to cope with deficit caused by the price drop, and how long and how much are they willing to deplete their reserves to?

    Saudi's oil plans effect everyone icluding its neighbours who aren't best pleased with their actions, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, UAE, have already expressed concerns and have stated this can't go on. They too will have to dig into their money reserves.

    Question is how long before countries start to get Pi*sed off with Saudi thinking it can hold to world to ransom on oil just so some king can beat his chest and say look at me, look how powerful i can be. Saudi want to show the world what they can do and how much power they hold, without nuclear weapons. They want countries to think ok we better listen to them and not pi*s them off. This is all it is.

    But a part of me thinks has USA had a quiet word in Saudi's ear asking them to do this to apply more pressure on Russia? USA knows Russia makes a lot of its money from oil, and its looking like the current sanctions weren't swaying Putin's mind.

    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:40 am

    The Saudis can continue quite a lot with these prices. The problem they face is that with they oil roundabout 50$ they can't really expect to break any of their serious competitors.
    They have to push even further but they already face strong resistance. The small rigs and the high-cost small private extractors already shut down, especially the high seas and the shale oil. To push even further and hit the major oil fields they need to go down to 30 or less where profits can make pretty much only the middle east and some Russian fields.
    But I don't think they have the capacity to go that much.
    If we don't have pretty soon some major player like Venezuela or Libya or Iraq or Netherlands go bust then it goes for a stalemate and they have gain pretty much nothing but a new global economic crisis and probably ISIS hitting their own soil.

    Needless to say this pretty much play the cards of China who is the one with the huge gains here.
    Incidentally guess who is the largest export and import trading partner of Saudi Arabia...

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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:05 pm

    Russia's Ruble Collapse Strikes Ex-Soviet Currencies

    LONDON — Falling energy prices and the plunge in the Russian ruble are hitting currencies across the former Soviet states, with Belarus and Turkmenistan having already devalued this week and markets betting that Kazakhstan will follow soon.

    Countries of the former Soviet Union have had their own currencies for two decades but many still depend on Russia, both for trade and for money sent home from workers living there.

    Those with their own energy exports that are least dependent on Moscow, like Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan, are seeing revenues hit by the same falling oil prices that wrecked the ruble after the Ukraine crisis threw Russia's economy into reverse.

    Financial markets are betting on a near 20 percent devaluation in the next three to six months in Kazakhstan's pegged tenge currency, which was already devalued by 19 percent last year.

    Others that float more freely, like Armenia's dram and Georgia's lari, are also expected to tumble further, along with bond and stock markets in the region.

    "Obviously this sharp fall in the ruble and oil is putting heavy pressure on all of these countries," said Piotr Matys, an emerging markets strategist at Rabobank.

    A devaluation can be helpful in rebalancing an out-of-kilter economy, but it also creates problems by pushing up the value and interest costs of any debt borrowed in international currencies like the dollar, and hiking inflation.

    As the second biggest of the ex-Soviet economies, it is Kazakhstan and its tenge that is being most closely watched.

    The benefits of last year's devaluation have been more than wiped out by the ruble's recent slump, and though the Central Bank has said there will be no repeat, oil's 50 percent price drop now means it may have no choice.

    "If you look across the universe of oil producers, those that haven't adjusted yet will, it's as simple as that," said Jan Dehn, at emerging market specialist fund manager at Ashmore.

    "The ostrich solution of sticking your head in the sand and pretending it hasn't happened really doesn't work for very long," Dehn added.

    Half of Kazakhstan's revenues last year came in one way or another from oil, so the state budget is likely to fall heavily into the red. And with the year-end cut off for many of the government's key performance metrics now passed, Kazakh watchers think a devaluation could come at any time.

    "The NBK [Kazakh Central Bank)] is trying to make a brave face of it and hold the line, but this line is really not credible," said Demetrios Efstathiou, head of CEEMEA Strategy at Standard Bank. "We think they will eventually want to move, the only question is timing."
    Oil Pressure

    Azerbaijan, the other big former Soviet oil producer, has a more robust balance sheet, having been one of the fastest growing economies in the world over the last decade. But it is bound to be hurt as oil and gas projects get shelved.

    The Azeri currency, the manat, may fare better than the tenge. It has fallen only fractionally in recent months and authorities have a decent arsenal of reserves. But the pressure remains.

    "They haven't devalued before so the question is whether they will devalue now," said Efstathiou. "There is a small chance, but I think Kazakhstan is much more likely."

    It is not just the oil producers that are in trouble. Former Soviet states without oil of their own to sell tend to be the ones that are still most dependent on trade and economic ties with Moscow: like Belarus, Armenia and Ukraine itself.

    Armenia relies on Russia for 80 percent of the remittances sent home by workers living abroad, a vital source of capital to fund a balance of payments deficit of 10 percent of GDP. Those workers are now earning devalued rubles.

    Belarus sends Russia half its exports. Even distant Uzbekistan, with no Russian border, sends a quarter of its exports there.

    No ex-Soviet country has seen its intimate economic relations with Russia more starkly exposed by the Ukraine crisis than Ukraine itself, which has been pushed to the brink of bankruptcy.

    Its hryvnia was one of the few currencies to fall more than the ruble last year, and is now hovering just off an all-time low, awaiting a decision from the IMF on a desperately-needed bailout.

    Ukraine's economy has been hurt not just by the direct impact of war with Russian-backed separatists that killed more than 4,000 people, but by the loss of cheap Russian gas imports and damage to its own Russia-bound exports.

    Gas debt repayments to Russia and spending to support the hryvnia have more than halved Ukraine's foreign currency reserves during 2014 to a 10-year low and left them under $10 billion, barely sufficient to cover two months of imports.

    par far
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  par far on Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:17 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:

    Attacking Glazyev, from the likes of you? Stick to things you know best: clutching straws on things such as the moon landing, and how better looking French ships look compared to Russian ships, claiming the Nazi's and Hitler were the good guys (and you claim to be pro-Russian)... Rolling Eyes

    WTF.. when i said Nazis were "good guys".. there was no Good guys in world war 2.. only greedy people fighting for their interest. US and UK created Hitler.. and provoked world war 2.. with their sanctions on germany.. Just like today ,they are provoking world war3 with their sanctions on Russia..  Who dropped an atomic Bomb in Japan is not better than Hitler.. and Stalin , many say he was worse. CHurchil wanted US to nuke Russia and continue the war ,when they were rebuilding their nation..Not good guys dude in that war..  

    The only thing i said was that Hitler had at least ONE really good cause ,to fight the criminal Neoliberal jewish banking industry ..That today have hostage half of the world in terrorism and wars ,they provoked most Wars in the previous 100 years...If he had success wiping Britain and US military power.. the world will be much better place today ,much more balanced if he just fight the west. Stalin cause of naturally defending their nation was also good one... Ideally will have been better if Hitler just target the west and not Soviet Union.  But thats not the way things happened.. And Glazyev is a pathetic liar .. nothing of what he told is truth..  Neither Russian central Bank
    "works for the west" as so naive people have been fooled to believe.. neither it is blocking Putin orders of creating a payment system ,they are testing it.. and The central bank is moving away of US dollar..trading with CHina in rubles..  completely bypassing the American Dollar system..that throws away to the toilet all Glazyev conspiracy theories.  and he better stop giving his nonsense lectures confusing people.  yes moon landing was a hoax.. but lets not get that here.

    And yes im Pro Russia.. But i also have my preferences.. and i dislike half good things.. i only want perfection and nothing else. THings that impress  in every way ,shape or form possible . but lets not talk about that  here either.

    In other news.. France is pushing for Europe to Lift sanctions on Russia..

    http://itar-tass.com/en/russia/770407

    The news above is BIG DEAL.. this is why i try to avoid judgments on Putin policy on its foreign policy..
    because in moments like this , is when Russia needs to expand its relations to avoid being contained by US.
    like in soviet times. US have clearly failed to Isolate Russia from Europe.. And Putin correct moves have been the reason for it.  US is creating a situation in Europe ,where they are the ones being isolated from the world..
    In the SYrian war UK backed down from supporting US war. and in the Ukraine war is france the ones backing down to support US.   You definitively needs to give credit to Putin Policy ,,because is effectively splitting europe and making it very hard for OBAMA to isolate them from the west.




    This is a speech given by Adolf Hitler, some 65 years ago and the shocking(or the not so shocking thing is) that is very true even today. The same things he mentioned are true today as well.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONkRvrogt30




    par far
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  par far on Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:10 pm

    Putin’s Opportunity to Bust the US Petro Dollar, can this actually work.

    http://www.theeventchronicle.com/study/putins-opportunity-bust-us-petro-dollar/



    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: Russian Economy General News: #4

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:56 pm

    Total crap. Communist logic. You don't bust anyone, you replace him, assuming you can.
    Don't expect USA to burn down his aircraft carriers as long as dominate the seas, you may expect someone else to build more carriers,
    that's what happened with the British empire it took United States to bust them in the 40s although they where virtually bankrupt since WWI.
    Same with dollar, is unsound, EVERYONE knows is unsound but there is no ALTERNATIVE yet.
    Russia's tiny economy and non-existent industry can't ever replace it.
    If someone else grows bigger as a trading nation and as economic powerhouse then dollar will collapse in a day.
    China can do it, but not tomorrow. The rest are simply to far behind.
    Whether you back your currency with gold or oil or whatever can't change this reality.

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