Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Share

    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5629
    Points : 6282
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  Viktor on Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:59 pm

    "Crimea - way back home" with english subtitles

    'Crimea - Way Back Home' Film Documents Historic Homecoming (VIDEO)

    Zivo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1504
    Points : 1540
    Join date : 2012-04-13
    Location : U.S.A.

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  Zivo on Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:57 am

    Russian military begin extensive water pipeline project in Crimea

    Arrow http://rt.com/news/246725-crimea-water-pipeline-project/

    Ukraine’s attempts to cut off water supplies to Crimea caused significant droughts last summer, but now Russia is rushing to compensate for the deficit. The first lines of newly installed water pipes are already feeding the peninsula from artesian wells.

    It's a start.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:14 am

    Russia should say to the illegal government in Kiev that cutting off water or power to Crimea will result in Russia cutting off gas to the Ukraine... whether the gas has been paid for or not.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:04 pm

    Once the road and railway bridge over the Kerch is complete, Russia can bypass Ukraine for everything. They could also invest in a desalination plant as well to provide water from the Black Sea to all of Crimea.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:58 pm

    They had plans to make mobile power stations that were simply ships with nuclear power stations on board that could be used to direct electrical power ashore and also use the heat generated to process salt water into fresh water in large volumes.

    A couple of ships located around the peninsula would be a good start and a good test in a not so harsh environment as emergency power and water until the bridge is built.

    They had plans for these ships for use in lots of different places like the Island nations of the Pacific where fresh water and electrical power is not easy to come by, but also the frozen north in siberia where electrical power is not practical from a main grid and needs to be generated locally.

    Equally in places like Africa and even the middle east where fresh water is probably more of a problem than electrical power.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    George1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 9432
    Points : 9924
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  George1 on Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:18 am

    Russia’s federal budget to spend $2.2 billion on Crimea’s modernization in 2015

    YALTA, April 18. /TASS/. A total of 113 billion rubles ($2.2 billion) will be spent this year to upgrade infrastructure as part of the Russian federal target program on development of Crimea and Sevastopol, Russian Deputy Crimean Affairs Minister Andrey Sokolov said at the Yalta economic forum on Saturday.

    "This is a huge sum comparable with expenses on the Olympic Games in Sochi, and more than the funds spent to prepare Vladivostok for the APEC summit. The sums will grow in the future. About 700 billion rubles [$13.6 billion] will be invested in Crimea by 2020," Sokolov said.

    He said federal budget funds will be injected in the development of the resort industry and production sphere.

    "We will conduct complete modernization of some resort cities and will create five industrial parks," Sokolov said.

    The Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol reunified with Russia after a referendum held on March 16, 2014, in which 96.77% of Crimeans and 95.6% of Sevastopol voters chose to secede from Ukraine and join the Russian Federation. Russian President Vladimir Putin signed the reunification deals March 18, 2014.

    Work to integrate the Crimean Peninsula into Russia’s economic, financial, credit, legal, state power, military conscription and infrastructure systems has been actively underway since Crimea acceded to the Russian Federation.

    The Yalta International Economic Forum, organized by the Council of Ministers of the Republic of Crimea and the Business Russia public organization, opened Friday near the city of Yalta. Co-chairman of Business Russia Andrey Nazarov said some 450 participants attend the forum, including 30 investors and entrepreneurs from 13 countries.

    auslander
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 861
    Points : 915
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    Crimea's integration into Russian Federation

    Post  auslander on Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:11 pm

    The work needing to be done on simply infrastructure in Sevastopol is massive. 23 years of active neglect and outright theft of huge public funds has left a crumbling mass of roads, bridges, electric supply that is scary and water supply that is suspect.

    Just about every road we have in City needs to be rebuilt, not repaved, rebuilt. The road systems were not designed or built for the huge numbers and weights of the trucks rumbling around City nor were they designed for the massive influx of POV's that have grown exponentially in the last 5 years. According to the books left over from the ukes most of our roads have been maintained in top shape. Case in point. Our little local post is one street to the south of the digs. 2 years ago the ukes patched a couple of the larger potholes in the 'street' and the 'contractor' got paid for completely rebuilding the entire kilometer length of the street. The first fall rains washed away the 'asphalt' used in the patches and now about half of the street is totally gone, nothing but some ballast stone in a few areas and a sea of mud when it rains. This is indicative of many small roads and streets in our berg. There are quite a few areas that we just can not drive in, the roads are that bad and our little minivan just can't go there. Most of the main roads are so-so but still are a patchwork quilt of temporary repairs.

    The road bridge over the Black River in Inkerman at the foot of the harbor was slammed shut in early February. I'm talking the traffic on this two lane main feeder was literally halted the moment the inspectors took their first look at the bridge. The bridge was completely rebuilt in 5 weeks and is now solid and smooth, but reports we got from one of the inspectors at Battery stated that it's a wonder the bridge did not fall in to the river with a Lada crossing it. According to uke records the bridge was replaced 11 years ago and rebuilt two years ago. Right.

    Water system. According to the ukes the system is modernized and pristine. Wonderful. Explain why I have to change the literally industrial main filter every three months after roughly 50 meters of water has passed through it. This filter is from Germany and is supposed to be good for 5000 meters of water. That problem has improved slightly, this last one went 4 months before replacement.

    Electric service. It has improved greatly in the last year. Under the ukes our generator ran minimum one day every two weeks. Going to the local substation, which we have done, is like stepping back 80 years. It's a museum, really. The station was built at the end of the war and used equipment that was from the '30's, literally. It has now been totally rebuilt and modernized last summer and now the only time service is down is when new lines and sticks are installed and under RF we are notified of any stoppages. Still and all, there is huge work needed to renew the service to most every building in this berg. Part of the problem is the citizens themselves. There were no building or utility inspectors visible during the uke times although the bureaucracy was there and was huge. The locals, their work can be frightening. Ever seen paper masking tape used for electrical tape? I have, more than once, and once on 380v service.

    All in all, 20 years will be needed to bring pretty much everything up to proper standards but it will be done.


    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2521
    Points : 2654
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  kvs on Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:41 pm

    auslander wrote:The work needing to be done on simply infrastructure in Sevastopol is massive. 23 years of active neglect and outright theft of huge public funds has left a crumbling mass of roads, bridges, electric supply that is scary and water supply that is suspect.

    Just about every road we have in City needs to be rebuilt, not repaved, rebuilt. The road systems were not designed or built for the huge numbers and weights of the trucks rumbling around City nor were they designed for the massive influx of POV's that have grown exponentially in the last 5 years. According to the books left over from the ukes most of our roads have been maintained in top shape. Case in point. Our little local post is one street to the south of the digs. 2 years ago the ukes patched a couple of the larger potholes in the 'street' and the 'contractor' got paid for completely rebuilding the entire kilometer length of the street. The first fall rains washed away the 'asphalt' used in the patches and now about half of the street is totally gone, nothing but some ballast stone in a few areas and a sea of mud when it rains. This is indicative of many small roads and streets in our berg. There are quite a few areas that we just can not drive in, the roads are that bad and our little minivan just can't go there. Most of the main roads are so-so but still are a patchwork quilt of temporary repairs.

    The road bridge over the Black River in Inkerman at the foot of the harbor was slammed shut in early February. I'm talking the traffic on this two lane main feeder was literally halted the moment the inspectors took their first look at the bridge. The bridge was completely rebuilt in 5 weeks and is now solid and smooth, but reports we got from one of the inspectors at Battery stated that it's a wonder the bridge did not fall in to the river with a Lada crossing it. According to uke records the bridge was replaced 11 years ago and rebuilt two years ago. Right.

    Water system. According to the ukes the system is modernized and pristine. Wonderful. Explain why I have to change the literally industrial main filter every three months after roughly 50 meters of water has passed through it. This filter is from Germany and is supposed to be good for 5000 meters of water. That problem has improved slightly, this last one went 4 months before replacement.

    Electric service. It has improved greatly in the last year. Under the ukes our generator ran minimum one day every two weeks. Going to the local substation, which we have done, is like stepping back 80 years. It's a museum, really. The station was built at the end of the war and used equipment that was from the '30's, literally. It has now been totally rebuilt and modernized last summer and now the only time service is down is when new lines and sticks are installed and under RF we are notified of any stoppages. Still and all, there is huge work needed to renew the service to most every building in this berg. Part of the problem is the citizens themselves. There were no building or utility inspectors visible during the uke times although the bureaucracy was there and was huge. The locals, their work can be frightening. Ever seen paper masking tape used for electrical tape? I have, more than once, and once on 380v service.

    All in all, 20 years will be needed to bring pretty much everything up to proper standards but it will be done.


    I love these sorts of accounts. The MSM parrots would never supply such information. And it is globally relevant. It shows that Kiev has
    neglected/abused Crimea from 1992 and cannot claim any rights to it whatsoever. There are other abuses as well, but Crimea was living
    in a 3rd world toilet under the Ukrs. The story of the Tatar shanty settlements is another reason why Crime should have never fallen into
    the hands of Kiev in 1992. Khruschev's ridiculous "gift" should have been recognized for the abomination that it was and been rescinded in
    1992. But Yeltsin was a comprador maggot.

    auslander
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 861
    Points : 915
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  auslander on Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:33 pm

    I love these sorts of accounts.   The MSM parrots would never supply such information.   And it is globally relevant.  It shows that Kiev has
    neglected/abused Crimea from 1992 and cannot claim any rights to it whatsoever.   There are other abuses as well, but Crimea was living
    in a 3rd world toilet under the Ukrs.   The story of the Tatar shanty settlements is another reason why Crime should have never fallen into
    the hands of Kiev in 1992.   Khruschev's ridiculous "gift" should have been recognized for the abomination that it was and been rescinded in
    1992.   But Yeltsin was a comprador maggot.[/quote]

    I lived here for 10 years under the ukes and I've seen a bunch. During the interesting days last February and March the MSM were everywhere but not at all interested in what had happened here for the last 20 odd years, all they wanted to know was who was who and what was where. The Saturday after the coup in Kiev we had a long meeting with some interesting people and my bride and I told them that we would be in the background but would not attend any public meetings at all, reason being my Russian is hideously poor so my wife and I commo in English, she being quite fluent. Speaking English here draws media like flies to honey on a hot summer day and we reasoned, and they agreed, that it would not be good PR for a foreigner to be seen as an activist in the events. We were privy to all events and were generally close to them but we watched on CCTV with other people, not in person. The good thing was at Belbek on that fateful morn at 01 there were no media to be seen as we both shoveled sand in to bags to build the block post.

    Our Tatari are not as sweet and gentle as one may think but generally they are 'businessmen' and don't want any interruptions in their business. During the constructions of the block posts at Belbek, Simferopol Ring and Yalta Ring it was the Tatari who provided the concrete barricades and the cranes to put them in place, as they also did in Simferopol after our boys took Krimu Rada. At Belbek and Simferopol Ring a goodly number of strapping young Tatari appeared well before dawn to assist in the sand bagging and construction. The first women who brought warm food and water to Belbek was a group of three Tatar and three Russian women.

    The vote tallies for the first early '90's vote on what Krimu would do were never released by Kravchuk, he simply stated that the vote was to 'stay with Ukraine'. The second vote formed the Autonomous Republic of Krimea but the ink wasn't dry before the ukes began to nibble away at the autonomy. In short order the ukes held sway again and had installed all their rapacious minions who did nothing but loot this peninsula to the very ground. The only difference any change of power in Kiev made here was a new heard of thieves arrived and stole more than the last herd.


    Last edited by auslander on Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:39 pm

    kvs wrote:
    I love these sorts of accounts.   The MSM parrots would never supply such information.   And it is globally relevant.  It shows that Kiev has
    neglected/abused Crimea from 1992 and cannot claim any rights to it whatsoever.   There are other abuses as well, but Crimea was living
    in a 3rd world toilet under the Ukrs.   The story of the Tatar shanty settlements is another reason why Crime should have never fallen into
    the hands of Kiev in 1992.   Khruschev's ridiculous "gift" should have been recognized for the abomination that it was and been rescinded in
    1992.   But Yeltsin was a comprador maggot.

    Please don't use western terminology to denounce countries and people of being less humane with this terminology of "3rd world". South Korea, Finland, Japan etc are all 3rd world countries. It is a terminology of countries that are/were not in NATO nor in Warsaw Pact military blocks.

    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2521
    Points : 2654
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  kvs on Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:33 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    I love these sorts of accounts.   The MSM parrots would never supply such information.   And it is globally relevant.  It shows that Kiev has
    neglected/abused Crimea from 1992 and cannot claim any rights to it whatsoever.   There are other abuses as well, but Crimea was living
    in a 3rd world toilet under the Ukrs.   The story of the Tatar shanty settlements is another reason why Crime should have never fallen into
    the hands of Kiev in 1992.   Khruschev's ridiculous "gift" should have been recognized for the abomination that it was and been rescinded in
    1992.   But Yeltsin was a comprador maggot.

    Please don't use western terminology to denounce countries and people of being less humane with this terminology of "3rd world". South Korea, Finland, Japan etc are all 3rd world countries. It is a terminology of countries that are/were not in NATO nor in Warsaw Pact military blocks.

    It's an economic development indexing system. There was the 4th world and 5th world as well. Ukraine has fallen a lot since 1992
    and that is what the reference was to. I do not see anything wrong with using western terminology, especially if it is basically neutral.
    I emigrated from the USSR in the middle seventies and ranking it 2nd world is appropriate in my eyes. Russia has overcome the attempt
    to turn into into a 3rd world toilet by Yeltsin on behalf of the USA and is now a lower tier 1st world country.

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:51 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    I love these sorts of accounts.   The MSM parrots would never supply such information.   And it is globally relevant.  It shows that Kiev has
    neglected/abused Crimea from 1992 and cannot claim any rights to it whatsoever.   There are other abuses as well, but Crimea was living
    in a 3rd world toilet under the Ukrs.   The story of the Tatar shanty settlements is another reason why Crime should have never fallen into
    the hands of Kiev in 1992.   Khruschev's ridiculous "gift" should have been recognized for the abomination that it was and been rescinded in
    1992.   But Yeltsin was a comprador maggot.

    Please don't use western terminology to denounce countries and people of being less humane with this terminology of "3rd world". South Korea, Finland, Japan etc are all 3rd world countries. It is a terminology of countries that are/were not in NATO nor in Warsaw Pact military blocks.

    It's an economic development indexing system.  There was the 4th world and 5th world as well.   Ukraine has fallen a lot since 1992
    and that is what the reference was to.   I do not see anything wrong with using western terminology, especially if it is basically neutral.  
    I emigrated from the USSR in the middle seventies and ranking it 2nd world is appropriate in my eyes.    Russia has overcome the attempt
    to turn into into a 3rd world toilet by Yeltsin on behalf of the USA and is now a lower tier 1st world country.  

    You are wrong. This terminology has nothing to do with economy but a terminology for a military division. 1st world is NATO, 2nd world was Soviet Union whit Warsaw pact, 3rd world was everything else. Over time retarded westerners mainly american started using it as a slur whenever they feel to insult any country as being a shithole. You do not hear anything about 2nd world anymore because Warsaw pact does not exist anymore.

    You just show your ignorance on this behalf and what this terminology actually is, others can tell you that aswell that it has nothing to do with economy, that is western arrogance and ignorance evolved in modern retardation of the entire nation. A limbus of intellectual stultification.

    Where do you get this 4th and 5th world from?

    Zivo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1504
    Points : 1540
    Join date : 2012-04-13
    Location : U.S.A.

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  Zivo on Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:02 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    I love these sorts of accounts.   The MSM parrots would never supply such information.   And it is globally relevant.  It shows that Kiev has
    neglected/abused Crimea from 1992 and cannot claim any rights to it whatsoever.   There are other abuses as well, but Crimea was living
    in a 3rd world toilet under the Ukrs.   The story of the Tatar shanty settlements is another reason why Crime should have never fallen into
    the hands of Kiev in 1992.   Khruschev's ridiculous "gift" should have been recognized for the abomination that it was and been rescinded in
    1992.   But Yeltsin was a comprador maggot.

    Please don't use western terminology to denounce countries and people of being less humane with this terminology of "3rd world". South Korea, Finland, Japan etc are all 3rd world countries. It is a terminology of countries that are/were not in NATO nor in Warsaw Pact military blocks.

    It's an economic development indexing system.  There was the 4th world and 5th world as well.   Ukraine has fallen a lot since 1992
    and that is what the reference was to.   I do not see anything wrong with using western terminology, especially if it is basically neutral.  
    I emigrated from the USSR in the middle seventies and ranking it 2nd world is appropriate in my eyes.    Russia has overcome the attempt
    to turn into into a 3rd world toilet by Yeltsin on behalf of the USA and is now a lower tier 1st world country.  

    You are wrong. This terminology has nothing to do with economy but a terminology for a military division. 1st world is NATO, 2nd world was Soviet Union whit Warsaw pact, 3rd world was everything else. Over time retarded westerners mainly american started using it as a slur whenever they feel to insult any country as being a shithole. You do not hear anything about 2nd world anymore because Warsaw pact does not exist anymore.

    You just show your ignorance on this behalf and what this terminology actually is, others can tell you that aswell that it has nothing to do with economy, that is western arrogance and ignorance evolved in modern retardation of the entire nation. A limbus of intellectual stultification.

    Where do you get this 4th and 5th world from?

    1975

    First- Blue

    Second- Red

    Third- Green

    The entire tri-world concept is inaccurate, outdated, and frankly, moronic.


    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2521
    Points : 2654
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  kvs on Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:48 pm

    What's moronic is pretending that the standard of living in the USSR at its peak was similar to that of western Europe
    or North America.

    Cut the pedantic inanity. These terms have a correspondence to reality. Economies can be ranked and those rankings
    change with time. The first world is sinking into second and ultimately 3rd world status. Former 3rd world countries
    are rising to 1st world status.

    KomissarBojanchev
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 991
    Points : 1144
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:16 pm

    kvs wrote:What's moronic is pretending that the standard of living in the USSR at its peak was similar to that of western Europe
    or North America.  

    Yes the USSR did have some of the highest ranking living standard, social services, social security and technology. Supposedly "developed" countries like italy or spain at the time had actually worse living standards than the USSR.

    Cyberspec
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1946
    Points : 2117
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:36 pm

    @Komissar

    so much blind faith in the Reds for someone so young.....

    VladimirSahin
    Master Sergeant
    Master Sergeant

    Posts : 359
    Points : 379
    Join date : 2013-11-29
    Age : 25
    Location : Some redneck state in the US.

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:10 am

    A good red is a young red Very Happy hes starting off good, I was a patriotic communist as a teen too.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  sepheronx on Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:09 am

    Cyberspec wrote:@Komissar

    so much blind faith in the Reds for someone so young.....

    In the earlier years, various communist regions did have good living standards and medical as well as educational was top of the line. Not so much anymore but no more communism. Living standards in like how many Square footage a home is, isn't what I would consider high living standards but whatever.

    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2521
    Points : 2654
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  kvs on Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:56 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:@Komissar

    so much blind faith in the Reds for someone so young.....

    In the earlier years, various communist regions did have good living standards and medical as well as educational was top of the line.  Not so much anymore but no more communism.  Living standards in like how many Square footage a home is, isn't what I would consider high living standards but whatever.

    That is true. The American dream of some suburb home with a couple of garages and cars to put in them is nothing special.
    But the development in the USSR hit a ceiling after the middle 1970s. Letting trainloads of produce rot at marshaling yards
    while there are shortages in grocery stores was grotesque. Even if one could attribute this to sabotage, the basic problem
    is the "tragedy of the commons". People don't care about what is not theirs. It's biological. You could see this in the way
    the insides of apartments were well furnished but the stairwells of the apartment building were in severe state of disrepair.

    These days Russia has a new set of problems but you can see the transformation. And actually Russia is moving away from
    the capitalist model foisted on it during the Yeltsin era. I think the socialist aspects will make a comeback. (This is another
    reason why neo-liberal sycophants of the west are not popular).

    KomissarBojanchev
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 991
    Points : 1144
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:08 am

    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:@Komissar

    so much blind faith in the Reds for someone so young.....

    In the earlier years, various communist regions did have good living standards and medical as well as educational was top of the line.  Not so much anymore but no more communism.  Living standards in like how many Square footage a home is, isn't what I would consider high living standards but whatever.

    That is true.  The American dream of some suburb home with a couple of garages and cars to put in them is nothing special.
    But the development in the USSR hit a ceiling after the middle 1970s.   Letting trainloads of produce rot at marshaling yards
    while there are shortages in grocery stores was grotesque.   Even if one could attribute this to sabotage, the basic problem
    is the "tragedy of the commons".   People don't care about what is not theirs.  It's biological.  You could see this in the way
    the insides of apartments were well furnished but the stairwells of the apartment building were in severe state of disrepair.

    These days Russia has a new set of problems but you can see the transformation.  And actually Russia is moving away from
    the capitalist model foisted on it during the Yeltsin era.  I think the socialist aspects will make a comeback.  (This is another
    reason why neo-liberal sycophants of the west are not popular).
    Yes the main problem was the alienation of the CPSU and beaurocracy from the working and peasant classes as well pure non ideological corruption although it was far less then neoliberal russia.

    But the main problem was the economic isolation and lack of a multi corporation empire exploiting the third world and international finance system control.

    KomissarBojanchev
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 991
    Points : 1144
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:11 am

    VladimirSahin wrote:A good red is a young red  Very Happy  hes starting off good, I was a patriotic communist as a teen too.
    It's hard not to hate monetarism and private bourgeois and oligarch control of the means of production when you live in the neoliberal shithole that's unfortunately my country...

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:27 am

    Red or not, he is right. The living standards in Soviet Union were the highest in the world till this date. In 60 up to 80's and even today in our western countries like Germany, France, UK,US etc students were demonstrating in massive protests against student loans and that most could not afford to get higher education, while in Soviet Union every single person regardless of his skin color, ethnicity in general, social status or his income all off them could go study whatever they wanted, no one was excluded just because he had lower income, no seperation between peasant schools and ivy league schools. The education in Soviet Union is the highest education through out human history till this very date and in near future aswell.

    The health care system is the same as education, free for everyone and the highest standards, while in our west people with low income couldn't afford treatment or expensive medicine in pharmacy and some would take loans just to have a treatment. In US there is nothing assured and health care is plundered with corruption, where no normalo could afford to break a legg or get injured that has to stay for a week in a hospital that would financially ruine him. In Germany our health care system sucks, aswell in rest of europe, the reason for that is private insurance companies they are all corrupt. You pay straight 20 years your insurance money worth of several tenthousand euros and then you have once in your life a problem where you need to get treatment and the struggle starts. The insurance companies of course do not want to pay, so the paper war starts to check what he actually can afford with his insurance and what would be the minimum possible money for treatment (of course theoratical and practical terms everything is more expensive) so in the end after paying for decades your insurance company big money they only pay you 50-60% when you need real treatment. While our doctors and nurses are overworked and underpaid, in germany there are 20000 people every year dying from overworked and tired doctors and nurses another 20000 dies from bad hygenic conditions in hospitals. You are literally amplifying the chances of getting killed by entering a german hospital.

    Everyone in SU had a job and no homeless people, now show me a single western country with same living standards. Big TV and car are not living standards when you can't afford a school or proper health care, when millions are homeless while your shit government has thousands of empty houses like in New Orleans and Chicago rotting while homeless are freezing to death every year.

    Private companies are the death to a prosperous future of any civilisation. Not a single institution of the social sector should ever be in private hands, that is treason and lowers living standards.

    Have fun in your "high living standard" US where over 50-60 mln people can't feed themselfs, 18 mln are homeless, almost half the population is working at minimum wage and are struggling with paying their bills and staying alive, where education is the worst even the so called "3rd world countries" have better education without having money, with the educational seperation and corruption between peasants and elites with those private ivy league schools. Yes have fun, trying to portray high living standards when the country is falling and your country is so uneducated that they do not realize that everything moving around them are the other countries the US is passing on its way down.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15468
    Points : 16175
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:15 pm

    Sadly western propaganda has made democracy a dirty word.

    The separation of countries into "worlds" was totally racist... white western people get to be first world even if you live in a card board box and own only the shirt on your back. Commies are the second world and everyone else is the third world.

    It is pathetic... you might as well be grouping economic groups by skin colour... asians, whites and then dark skins for work ethic and income with the Asians at the top and the dark skinned people at the bottom, while penis size and athletic ability is the reverse... just mumbo jumbo.

    BTW back on topic... the Crimea...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    auslander
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 861
    Points : 915
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    Crimea's integration into Russian Federation

    Post  auslander on Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:56 pm

    I think the idea of US slowly going down is correct and it's as much as a cultural phenomenon as it is economic. Not everything is honey and roses in RF and Krimu by any stretch of the imagination but one can see a marked change in RF in the last twenty odd years, for the better. Conversely in US, which I visited October of last year, hadn't been back since '08, has plummeted in the 6 years I was gone. To say I was surprised at the changes in US in 6 years is akin to calling a 200 kilo rabbit mildly horizontally challenged. The happiest moment of that entire ordeal was when I landed in Mockba and at Border Control the young Starshi Lutanant examined my PR passport, went over it with a fine toothed comb simply because he had never seen one like I have, stamped my regular passport, handed both back with a smile and said 'Welcome home, sir'. The bad thing is I've got to go back next year to get a new passport. Embassy in Mockba refuses to have anything to do with what very few Americans are left in Krimu and says, or said, on their web sight we have to go to Kiev and visit the embassy there.

    Bottom line, all empires rise and fall with time. I put the pinnacle of US in the '50's through the mid '60's. It's been downhill since then and the speed of the downward slide seems to be faster every year. I shudder to think what I will see next year.

    On the other hand Russia is slowly but steadily waxing and I expect things to be vastly improved within the next 10 to 20 years, and with any luck I'll live long enough to see that.


    mack8
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 923
    Points : 983
    Join date : 2013-08-02

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  mack8 on Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:37 pm

    Well, to stick my nose in here, i would definitely not class myself as communist- i am not part of any political afilliation- but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the communist system AS PLANNED is fundamentally sound. In fact i believe that something roughly akin to communism, or at leats borrowing many features from it's concept, should the next evolutionary step in our society, it is such a system that could actually eliminate conflict, poverty, suffering, insecurity and religion-induced ignorance that is so prevalent in our world today. The USSR and associated block DID had the chance to create just such a fundamentally new kind of society, but what blew it up is human nature, corruption, thirst for power, you name it- not to mention of course outside sabotage. Maybe the chinese might do a bit better, we'll see.

    But regardless, it is a crime against humanity to have a small bunch of power hungry perverts obsessively accumulate unbelievable fortunes through any means including war and oppression, while literally BILLIONS of peoples live (and die) in abject conditions, without food security, without access to education, without access to medical care, without the chance to be a productive member of society and without the chance to live a secure and fear-free life. Regardless of what "justifications" are offered for the current capitalist system, this is heinous and criminal, is not acceptable, it should never be for a person living in the 21st century.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Crimea's integration into Russian Federation:

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 7:53 pm


      Current date/time is Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:53 pm