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    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

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    Mefesto
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Mefesto on Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:21 pm


    rtech
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    Post  rtech on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:07 pm

    http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/353888.html

    Can anybody post a translation of this?

    ult
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  ult on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:18 pm

    rtech wrote:http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/353888.html

    Can anybody post a translation of this?

    In two words - mad ukr.


    Last edited by ult on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Vann7
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:19 pm

    well .. i know many will not like me to say any negative opinion about armata design..
    but anyway..

    Well. for me it looks like Armata pretty much was designed by Amateurs ,with zero experience
    in aesthetics.. when it comes to visual look of the armored vehicles.. with the exception of
    boomeran and koalition..  T-15 and T-14.. if it was a contest of exterior design.. will get
    a score of 4 of 10.  that is not horrible but very amateurish.  Specially the T-15.. that you don't know whether the vehicle is finished or if it is missing parts. No

    If they all cared was protection.. they could have saved a ton of money by just changing the turret of T-90 for the armata turret.. and try to get all vehicles to use the T-90 body.. Is a mystery for me why they bother changing drastically so much the exterior design of T-90 , for a tank like armata.. if it was going to look so amateurish the design ,they could just attach things  on top the tank and be happy with it..


    i mean if all they care is protection..functionality , why not just attach things on top of an
    already decent design like T-90 ?

    there is also serious design issues in armata ..that pose a major danger to soldiers lives outside.. for example the barbeque grill protecting the air vents on the sides of T-14.. are too far from the tank, If the tank moves , while soldiers are very near the tank.. they will get impaled or dismembered an arm by the grill. if that is the final version of Armata t-14 then definitively is a really bad design..  and t-15 looks like they just slapped covers on the sides to make it look like weird plane.  i really don't understand what the were thinking with such
    protection placed that way.. covers only half .

    when it comes to protection and weapons ,im sure Armata will beat anything the west have..
    but when it comes to design it aesthetics is very amateurish ..  I don't think it was done by a computer at all.. the maintainance of Armata will be a nightmare too ,with so many holes ,open surfaces , spaces and mis aligned things.. specially if the tank enter in a swamp or mud.. they will need to remove the active protection to clean that tank. soldiers will have to be careful not to get their clothing or weapons stuck in armata reactive armor or the grill.

    Anyway disappointed with the designers of Armata ,looks like their first tank .. or maybe the final version of the tank will be much different its design.. it doesn't look like anything we saw on the first page..models in plastic, that looked very modern and futuristic.

    T-14 looks totally different to the plastic models they had in display for generals.
    Something that really looked like a future tank..



    any case im sure the tank protection will be best in the world.. and this is what really matters
    in the end..

    Vann7
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:45 pm

    rtech wrote:http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/353888.html

    Can anybody post a translation of this?

    Using Google translate..



    Opinion about the new Russian tanks "Armata"

    Apr. 23rd, 2015 at 9:49 PM
    tadz
    Demonstration of two dozen cars on the basis of "Almaty was" - heavy tank and infantry combat vehicles is a serious claim of the Russian Federation (as the receiver of the USSR) to restore parity in tank development with the countries of the west. As it is well known to the mass appearance of tanks "Abrams", "Leopard 2", and later, and "Leclerc" position of the USSR moved from the leader to catch up. Projects future tanks late 80s reached the level of the working time for the disintegration of the USSR, and not to the tank then was sold all that is possible, on the verge of survival.
    Immediately, I note that the question now is not about a huge margin, revolution and so on. It's about achieving KVTU foreign tanks (the latest versions of "Abrams" and "Leopard-2") with the planned superiority of VTU 25-30%.
    True it will not be soon, those that know the history of compliance with the terms in at least 8-10 years.

    From recent history is known and the same BMP-3, which required two decades of operational development and a series of more than 1000 units, and at first was the record for unreliability in the history of post-war tank USSR. Helped foreign customers. Without them, the machine would not take place. And the development of the T-34, T-54, T-64 and its modifications confirms the data as possible. Also known story of the transition to a new type of slave BPS "Hope" took 8 years. And the same alloy core required length of residence permit and, until recently, could not "pull", but he is not so great in comparison with the West. The same situation and now expects. The story of the same with the new BPS BV lasted from the end of the 80's and never ended.

    Presented 20 items of course at this stage do not pass any test, in fact, the story resembles a demonstration in the prewar years, pre-production samples, which will require long-term operational development.
    It is in question whether the ideology of a step in the right (particularly for the Russian Federation) direction. In my opinion - no.
    In the history of the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union, and now the Russian Federation have been sectors that have never been, to put it mildly, leading. That when Peter first, that under Stalin, Yeltsin and anyone else, such as the road was in trouble.
    With electronics the same story, it is especially important for the tank "Armata", given to him chosen ideology, which did not dare to even the most developed countries in the field of electronics. What to say if the serial thermal imaging cameras in the Russian Federation, mounted on tanks, still come from France.
    By the way, the ideology of "Almaty was" not new, was considered as an option, and in the 70s and 80s in the development of the new tank.


    he is basically saying Russia lags behind the west in tanks ,in electronics in Night Vision..
    and everything else.. in other words the West > Russia. and he goes as far to compare Armata with T80U ,how the protection capsule is nothing new.

    Orocairion
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Orocairion on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:17 pm

    That's interesting. The last roadwheel is raised from the ground...

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:21 pm

    Vann7 wrote:well .. i know many will not like me to say any negative opinion about armata design..
    but anyway..

    Well. for me it looks like Armata pretty much was designed by Amateurs ,with zero experience
    in aesthetics.. when it comes to visual look of the armored vehicles.. with the exception of
    boomeran and koalition..  T-15 and T-14.. if it was a contest of exterior design.. will get
    a score of 4 of 10.  that is not horrible but very amateurish.  Specially the T-15.. that you don't know whether the vehicle is finished or if it is missing parts. No

    How something looks is absolutley irrelevant to its combat effeciency. We don't see all vehicles fitted with all applique armor and ERA tiles but we certainly know that they will have them in place either at 9th May or later. How do i know that? Because we have seen "everything" already to fill those gaps of left out NERA/ERA tiles.

    Vann7 wrote:
    If they all cared was protection.. they could have saved a ton of money by just changing the turret of T-90 for the armata turret.. and try to get all vehicles to use the T-90 body.. Is a mystery for me why they bother changing drastically so much the exterior design of T-90 , for a tank like armata..

    That would be not possible, due the limitation of the T-90 chassis, it just has not necessary interior space to make armor at front thick enough then make armor it from side and from behind next to the autoloader carousel compartment, it just has not enough space to make it work.

    Vann7 wrote:
    if it was going to look so amateurish the design ,they could just attach things  on top the tank and be happy with it..


    Attach what things on top of the tank?
    The top of the tank already has RWS, APS, Counter Measures and optics maybe radar.

    Vann7 wrote:
    i mean if all they care is protection..functionality , why not just attach things on top of an
    already decent design like T-90 ?

    That is called T-90AM and they are doing it, but there are limitations to everything. Military industry and technologies are like hermit crabs, if you want to grow you need to get a new shell. The tank itself is not bigger, not in the dangerzone of common AT weapon hitzone.


    Vann7 wrote:
    there is also serious design issues in armata ..that pose a major danger to soldiers lives outside.. for example the barbeque grill protecting the air vents on the sides of T-14.. are too far from the tank, If the tank moves , while soldiers are very near the tank.. they will get impaled or dismembered an arm by the grill.

    You watch to much gorey movies? Slat armor needs a certain distance from armor to reduce the chances of HEAT weapons detonating and forming an optimal penetrator, distance is key for that. Money doesn't grow on trees and russias budget isn't overblown like some others, so they use slat armor on the backside of the tank because it is less likely to be hit.

    Vann7 wrote:
    if that is the final version of Armata t-14 then definitively is a really bad design..
     

    It is not the final vehicle that was mentioned more than once. They will get all the remaining stuff later, those pictures are not even official, just people shooting pictures whenever they can, nothing official about them.

    Vann7 wrote:
    and t-15 looks like they just slapped covers on the sides to make it look like weird plane.  i really don't understand what the were thinking with such
    protection placed that way.. covers only half .

    First you bitch about slat armor on Armata T-14 over the exhaust pipes of engine now you bitch about the best possible protection for engine with NERA/ERA tiles.


    Vann7 wrote:
    when it comes to protection and weapons ,im sure Armata will beat anything the west have..
    but when it comes to design it aesthetics is very amateurish ..  

    You know that beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder and is not something dogmatic? Many have said they like it. I prefer T-90A because it looks awesome, but i do like T-14 aswell.

    Vann7 wrote:
    I don't think it was done by a computer at all.. the maintainance of Armata will be a nightmare too ,with so many holes ,open surfaces , spaces and mis aligned things.. specially if the tank enter in a swamp or mud.. they will need to remove the active protection to clean that tank.

    What holes? What open "surfaces"? What are you talking about?

    If any tank enters mud or swamp it will be cleaned in the most common way, they drive several times through water pools they have on training grounds untill it is clean or major dirt is gone. It is much simplier than you make it. Problem becomes only when tank driver leaves his hatch open and then drives through mud then he will have a shitty day to clean up.

    Vann7 wrote:
    soldiers will have to be careful not to get their clothing or weapons stuck in armata reactive armor or the grill.

    Only if they and their personal equipment is made of slimy goo that is attracted to mm wide gaps.

    Vann7 wrote:
    Anyway disappointed with the designers of Armata ,looks like their first tank .. or maybe the final version of the tank will be much different its design.. it doesn't look like anything we saw on the first page..models in plastic, that looked very modern and futuristic.

    Does this resemble more the turret of the tank model or not?


    Compared to that?

    Based on that

    Werewolf
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:23 pm

    That's interesting. The last roadwheel is raised from the ground...

    Could be from rapid moving, you know when car is stopped or when it adjusts its gears then sometimes it jerks and since the engine is at the front it could be the case.

    Or the engine is fat along with armor.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Orocairion on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:42 pm

    You are probably right with the breaking idea, seeing thtat the track has far less tension at the front and it's sagging.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:50 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    That's interesting. The last roadwheel is raised from the ground...

    Could be from rapid moving, you know when car is stopped or when it adjusts its gears then sometimes it jerks and since the engine is at the front it could be the case.

    Or the engine is fat along with armor.

    Go look carefully the armata MBT in miniatory plastic model in the table in previous image
    and compare it with Armata the real one.. with all things and all armor.. You will notice the
    plastic model with clean smooth surfaces ,everything perfectly aligned ,no grill on the vents too far from the tank.. becoming a danger for anyone near..could get stuck or seriously injured if they move near the tank for cover and get stuck in the grill.

    Anyway i think is possible the final design they will tweak Armata exterior to be more uniform and rounded .. or possibly is a price thing.. to make it as simple as possible to lower the cost of the tank.. T-90am.. have a much more smoother and fluid surfaces . as if it was one unified
    surface.




    So i think possibly we are only seeing the prototypes of armata and the serial version will
    have more uniform design . Maintainnance is also important of any tank..and not always you will have facilities near for it.. So the more uniform and closed are the surfaces the far easier
    the maintainaces of the tank.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Cyberspec on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:52 pm

    I think it's due to braking as well...

    As for looks, personally the more I see of the T-14 the more I like it. Looks very solid. We'll have to wait for the turret but I suspect it will be something like the model posted above. ....the T-90 now looks like a toy in comparison

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Mike E on Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:40 am

    I Find the 90AM to be one of the best looking tanks of today, if not the best ever... The T-14 is no slouch either, and will become more refined over the production process. Not like looks matter anyway, Vann.... 

    The reason the AM looks so "refined and rounded" is because of the basically appliqué ERA that is everywhere.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:41 am

    Put a tarp over the turret of the T-90MS and it will look like the T-14 Laughing

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:45 am

    kvs wrote:Put a tarp over the turret of the T-90MS and it will look like the T-14 Laughing



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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  alexZam on Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:02 am

    Just gonna live this here.... Wink



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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  TR1 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:16 am

    Dat engine deck....

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