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    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

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    volna
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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  volna on Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:09 am

    acatomic wrote:Thanks to GurKhan
    Could somebody tell us the key points of this interview?
    Thanks!

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Viktor on Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:59 pm

    Great read about Armata thumbsup

    TANK REVOLUTION

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  kvs on Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:10 pm

    Viktor wrote:Great read about Armata  thumbsup

    TANK REVOLUTION

    It's popular to make renderings of the tank with a turret that is not much smaller than current manned ones. I think
    this is wrong and the model shown to Rogozin with the very low profile turret is the most accurate. One of the key
    advantages of an unmanned turret is that you can eliminate all of the empty space needed for a crew and reduce the
    height of the tank, which makes it harder to hit. The autoloader assembly is below the turret level anyway just like in
    all of Russia's current tanks, so just the cannon and the optics have to stick out.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:16 am

    That is an old article...

    I think the low turret model (ie 1968 model) is the best representative of the likely MBT Armata... as seen in this image:



    The MBT turret on the tracked model just before the truck... 5 models from the left of the picture.


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:41 pm

    GarryB wrote:That is an old article...

    I think the low turret model (ie 1968 model) is the best representative of the likely MBT Armata... as seen in this image:



    The MBT turret on the tracked model just before the truck... 5 models from the left of the picture.

    You mean on the Kurganets model? So is it safe to say that Armata and Kurganets platform MBT's will share the same 125 mm turret module or will they go about the same method as the Sprut-B? BTW I hope one of the requirements for the new vehicle platforms is built in hydraulics systems that allows them to increase and decrease elevation (like some of the current vehicles being produced) to allow more flexibly when  loading said vehicles in to tactical and strategic airlift planes.

    Also on the Kurganets and Armata tracked vehicle platforms I hope they both have the ability to lower elevation to decrease their size as a target as well as to lower the armored side skirts for superior protection of their tracks wheels (specifically in high density high threat area urban environments), as well as the ability to widen the tracked platforms vehicle chassis base to maintain high cross-country mobility when heavier weapon and armor modules are applied.

    The capability to widen the base chassis at a push of button will allow more flexibility when it comes to potential vehicle weight increases by decreasing ground pressure and increasing surface tension to ground surfaces similar to how some insects (such as water striders) are capable of walking on water because of their wide leg stances that helps maintain surface tension on water surfaces by distributing weight over a wider surface area.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:10 am

    They have said they are developing electronic sensor suites and weapon suites for the vehicle families and that they will be pretty standardised.... suggesting that where possible the guns and other weapons and systems will be standardised through the vehicle families.

    The crew positions.... controls and displays will be the same for all vehicles and all vehicle positions. You will be able to drive, shoot, and command the vehicle from any crew position in the vehicle.

    When operating the tank model the systems and equipment and sensors will be standardised as far as possible... it doesn't matter whether you are in a 55 ton tracked heavy tank or in a 15 ton 6 wheeled light tank you want to see the target at max range so optics will be the same and other sensors will be the same... the gun might need to be different and the expected targets will likely be different... the Typhoon gun might be a high velocity 57mm gun and it might just be used as light gun support for very mobile light forces where the only tanks likely to be met on the battlefield would be T-55 generation vehicles... of course other vehicles in the unit might have Kornet-EM and top attack gun launched missiles might be included in the 120mm gun mortar equipped support vehicles used instead of 152mm artillery vehicles.

    The turret we have seen showing external Kornets in twin launchers and a 30mm cannon could be standard for both APC and IFV, though in heavier vehicle families the IFV might have the 30mm cannon replaced by a 57mm gun to destroy enemy IFVs.

    BTW I hope one of the requirements for the new vehicle platforms is built in hydraulics systems that allows them to increase and decrease elevation (like some of the current vehicles being produced) to allow more flexibly when loading said vehicles in to tactical and strategic airlift planes.

    I agree, but think the gun mounting itself should allow a wide range of gun elevation too and being able to raise and lower the vehicles suspension seems useful anyway.

    So is it safe to say that Armata and Kurganets platform MBT's will share the same 125 mm turret module or will they go about the same method as the Sprut-B?

    Designing the MBT turret that way would minimise its frontal area making it hard to spot... especially in a hull down position... which would be as relevant to the Typhoon and Boomerang as much as to the Armata and Kurganets...

    I think the turrets will be fully standardised where possible.

    Also on the Kurganets and Armata tracked vehicle platforms I hope they both have the ability to lower elevation to decrease their size as a target as well as to lower the armored side skirts...

    Agree here too.

    I suspect with the description of the engine for Armata... it is supposed to start as a 1,400hp engine but be upgradable to 2,500hp in the future suggests future growth capacity to allow for weight increases and future energy demands.

    The capability to widen the base chassis at a push of button will allow more flexibility when it comes to potential vehicle weight increases by decreasing ground pressure and increasing surface tension to ground surfaces similar to how some insects (such as water striders) are capable of walking on water because of their wide leg stances that helps maintain surface tension on water surfaces by distributing weight over a wider surface area.

    Interesting idea... but I think just making the chassis wider wont change the ground pressure.

    Fitting wider tracks would do that... but I don't know how you could make that a push button process.

    Personally I think having extra wide tracks available that can be fitted when the snow or the mud get deep could be an option, though side applique armour would need to be designed to allow for that...


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:The MBT turret on the tracked model just before the truck... 5 models from the left of the picture.

    Yep, I agree.

    I think it's almost certain on how the Armata turret looks.

    There's some info on the Armata on the http://topwar.ru/ site, suggesting that there will be 5 examples in the 2015 parade (4 + 1 spare vehicle). Reportedly 16 prototypes have been built so far and firing tests have been conducted, resulting in some modifications to the Fire-Control system. The tank weighs 51 tons.

    The first Armata battalion is expected to enter service in early 2016

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:59 pm

    The presumed turret still looks like some uselss gizmo crap general dynamics land systems pulled from the depths of its rectum to dupe buyers with.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  TR1 on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:42 am

    Looks like (well, rumored) the MBT variant will be weighing initially @ around 53 tons, with around 1500 hp engine. That is pretty good, leaves lots of weight for growth, and that HP figure should bring a good engine resource life.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Zivo on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:48 am

    The turret wont have the appearance like the Kurganets model. I guarantee there will be conformal storage bins, to both store equipment and act as mounts for Armata's numerous sensors and APS. These bins will give the production model turret a conventional appearance.

    However, the armor layout will likely be similar to what is shown on the Kurganets model.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:18 am

    It is hard to say... certainly the low tiny turret in the models would be ideal from a Russian design perspectives, but also the turret of the T-95 was also unmanned and was huge.

    As a hunter killer the small turret would be ideal so perhaps only the lighter smaller tanks (MBTs/gun platforms) will have the low angled turret.

    The model with the 120mm rifled main gun/mortar and the 40mm grenade launcher and 23mm gatling gun that we assumed was a BMPT model also had a very small profile from the front due to the angles and shape of the turret.

    Of course if they don't go for the 40mm Balkan automatic grenade launcher they could go for the larger 57mm grenade launcher, which would be interesting.

    The 40mm Balkan seems to be a very very compact design that could take up as little space in a turret mount as a 30 cal PKM MG... though he ammo would be larger and bulkier it would also be rather more effective and have a much greater effective range (2.5km).


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Austin on Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:19 pm

    The new Russian tank "Armata" will see the battlefield at 360 degrees




    The Deputy General Director Vyacheslav UVZ Halitov.



    "There is an integral index - ratio of military-technical level. For this indicator, the unit we take the T-72B. According to him outside the military-technical level of "Almaty was" grows almost four times, "- said in a radio interview V.Halitov" Russian news service ", which cites Interfax-AVN 

    He said that based on the platform created by the "Armata" tank - tank is the fifth generation. 

    "According to its characteristics it will exceed 25-30% all existing analogues tanks in the world," - said the deputy director UVZ.


    He said that the development work on the development of "Almaty was" at the stage of preliminary tests. 

    "Confirms all the characteristics that we have laid," - said V.Halitov.


    According to him, the new tank will be used unconventional layout scheme, provided vserakursny protection provided high survival of the crew and the vitality of the entire machine.


    "We separated ammunition, fuel and people," - said the deputy director.
    He noted that in modern tank ammunition, fuel and crew "are practically next." "In this project, the question is removed" - added V.Halitov.



    V.Halitov also said that the tank on the platform "Armata" will refer to the medium tanks, and not heavy class. The crew of the new tank will be a panoramic view of the area.


    "We want to see nearly 360 degree field of battle," - said V.Halitov. 

    In addition, he said, raises "performance information" in relation to the search target, destruction, fire damage inspection results.


    Answering the question, what is the caliber of the new tank gun, V.Halitov said: "We are considering various calibers." 

    He explained that in the layout of the new tank based on the principle of modular construction, it touches firepower, the protective properties of the tank, its powerplant. In particular, developers provide propulsion, as the bow of the tank, and at the stern.


    On the basis of universal armored bay will also create a heavy infantry fighting vehicle repair and car radar, as well as other martial providing bronesredstva.
    "Uralvagonzavod" is preparing a pilot batch of tanks advanced on the basis of universal armored bay "Armata" to participate in the parade in honor of the Victory Day May 9, 2015 on Red Square.


    "Decision of the Ministry of Defense are two ceremonial" box ". While the numbers are not fully defined. Rather, it will be six to eight units in the "box". Approximately the number of cars we will release in experimental batch "- said V.Halitov.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Asf on Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:21 am

    .Halitov also said that the tank on the platform "Armata" will refer to the medium tanks, and not heavy class
    I dosen't understand that. T-72 and T-80 are actually 'medium' tanks in MoD's classification. Does it mean Armata will be less than 50 tonns? Nobody seems to knw that a mass classification really mean now. May be it's more about tank's main tactical role other than namely it's weight

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  George1 on Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:24 am

    Asf wrote:
    .Halitov also said that the tank on the platform "Armata" will refer to the medium tanks, and not heavy class
    I dosen't understand that. T-72 and T-80 are actually 'medium' tanks in MoD's classification. Does it mean Armata will be less than 50 tonns? Nobody seems to knw that a mass classification really mean now. May be it's more about tank's main tactical role other than namely it's weight

    maybe he wanted to say that there will be also a medium tank edition of Armata

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  George1 on Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:44 am

    Russian army to get first consignment of Armata tanks in 2015 — official

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Cpt Caz on Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:49 pm

    Russia’s tank manufacturer criticized for high prices of new generation tanks: http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/760399


    MOSCOW, November 18. /TASS/. The price of the new Armata tank is too high, Oleg Bochkaryov, the deputy chairman of Russia’s Military-industrial Commission said Tuesday. The contract on production of Armata tanks will be signed with Russia’s leading tank manufacturer Uralvagonzavod for three years, and the price of combat vehicles has already been defined, Bochkaryov said.

    Bochkaryov confirmed that the first Armata will be will be produced by the end of the year, and on May 9 the new tanks will take part in the Victory Day parade in Moscow. According to Bochkaryov, 24 machines on Armata platforms will be shown – 12 tanks and 12 heavy combat vehicles.

    It is suggested that the tank will have a remote control gun and the crew will be placed in an isolated crew cell.
    The Uralvagonzavod reacted to the accusations saying it will work on lowering the price.

    I hope the designers won't be forced to cut any corners because of this.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Viktor on Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:39 pm

    Cpt Caz wrote:I hope the designers won't be forced to cut any corners because of this.

    Nice thumbsup

    "Uralvagonzavod" promised to reduce the price of "Armata"

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:09 am

    They might mean that the Armata MBT is not 70 tons... at 50 tons it is a medium sized tank, but of course will be a Russian Heavy tank for heavy brigades.


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Sujoy on Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:25 am

    The planned advantage of the new Armata tank is its lightweight armor, the 44S-SV-SH. The developers( Scientific Research Institute of Steel,Moscow) managed to increase the hardness of steel while retaining its plasticity (the process of course is classified). This combination allows the reduction of the thickness of the armor plate by 15 percent without reducing its security features.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  kvs on Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:27 pm

    These days anti-tank munitions are so effective that armour thickness is not longer a major factor like it was back in WWII.
    The only hope is all the reactive armour and perhaps ceramic layering. The tank design has to evolve and I think mobility is one
    of the obvious aspects to enhance.

    I heard from a Canadian tank crew member being interviewed long ago that in modern tank warfare the tank that gets the first
    shot wins. This must form the basis of tank warfare planning.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:43 am

    Also, 'low observability' to enemy sensors will be an important feature. The Armata will reportedly have such features according to a Nii Stali spokesman.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:17 am

    Getting the first shot is important but being able to take hits and continue fighting is also important... the APS system is supposed to be able to stop current threats (ie 1,700m/s) while a new system in development is supposed to be able to stop even faster threats (2,500m/s-3,000m/s)

    the standard APS for medium and light vehicles is called Standard, while the system for the heavy vehicles (armata) is called Afghanistan. The new system for faster threats is called Zaslon apparently.


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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:14 pm

    GarryB wrote:Getting the first shot is important but being able to take hits and continue fighting is also important... the APS system is supposed to be able to stop current threats (ie 1,700m/s) while a new system in development is supposed to be able to stop even faster threats (2,500m/s-3,000m/s)

    the standard APS for medium and light vehicles is called Standard, while the system for the heavy vehicles (armata) is called Afghanistan. The new system for faster threats is called Zaslon apparently.

    2.5 - 3 km/sec? That's ridiculously fast, like Mach 8.8/9, if Zaslon can live up to expectations than I may end up sh*tting bricks!

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Asf on Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:50 pm

    You're wrong, zaslon is a ukraininan thing.

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    Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:01 pm

    Asf wrote:You're wrong, zaslon is a ukraininan thing.

    In the latest article on Armata a Russian 'Zaslon' is mentioned which is apparently going to replace the 'Afghan' APS.

    New armor - is not the only means of protecting the crew of "Armata". According to some, this will be the first tank, on which it will be installed new means of active protection against rocket-propelled grenades and sabots. This is the latest development of the Kolomna Engineering Bureau - "Afghan".

    From open sources about it is known that the radar system is operating in the millimeter range, the first to use the protective ammunition warhead type percussion core, not fragmentation as before. Middle line interception missiles, rocket-propelled grenades or projectiles of 15-20 meters and a maximum speed of interception armor-piercing projectiles - 1700 m / s.

    In the future, "Armata" is planned to establish a more perfect system of protection "Barrier (Zaslon)". It will already be able to intercept targets flying at a speed of 2500 to 3000 m / s.

    Full article: http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201411211239-uvb5.htm

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